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Just me?

rockin_uforockin_ufo St. Paul, MNPosts: 377Member Uncommon

Is it just me or is there no "big" MMO coming out anytime soon. They are just all so lackluster and have obvious flaws? They all just sound boring, and they bringing nothing new to the table. Maybe I'm just waiting for a good sandbox...I don't know. And even then ArcheAge probably will never reach the US at this rate.

Whenever i step outside, somebody claims to see the light
It seems to me that all of us have lost our patience.
'cause everyone thinks they're right,
And nobody thinks that there just might
Be more than one road to our final destination--

«1

Comments

  • AmarantharAmaranthar OhioPosts: 2,425Member Uncommon

    ArcheAge isn't a Sandbox game. It's Themepark with Sandbox elements. The game play will still be level to level. It'll be better because of the Sandbox elements, but still the same basic concept. Like WoW had fishing, ArcheAge has planting trees.

    I don't think gamers as a whole quite realize this yet, but what they are tired of, that thing that they feel is old and tired and boring, it's the levelling content to content structure of Themepark games. But most don't realize it yet, because they've never experienced anything else. Yet they sense that there could be, and should be, "something more" in these "worlds" that they sense are so lacking in "something".

    451

    Once upon a time....

  • birdycephonbirdycephon Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 1,314Member
    WildStar. FFXIV:ARR.
  • DeVoDeVoDeVoDeVo Outhere, NCPosts: 94Member Uncommon
    It's just you. 
  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by Amaranthar

    ArcheAge isn't a Sandbox game. It's Themepark with Sandbox elements. The game play will still be level to level. It'll be better because of the Sandbox elements, but still the same basic concept. Like WoW had fishing, ArcheAge has planting trees.

    I don't think gamers as a whole quite realize this yet, but what they are tired of, that thing that they feel is old and tired and boring, it's the levelling content to content structure of Themepark games. But most don't realize it yet, because they've never experienced anything else. Yet they sense that there could be, and should be, "something more" in these "worlds" that they sense are so lacking in "something".

    You think they haven't tried, but you don't really know. Or maybe there is no "something more" about sandboxes. Not to them.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • BattlerockBattlerock Youngstown, OHPosts: 1,393Member
    Originally posted by rockin_ufo

    Is it just me or is there no "big" MMO coming out anytime soon. They are just all so lackluster and have obvious flaws? They all just sound boring, and they bringing nothing new to the table. Maybe I'm just waiting for a good sandbox...I don't know. And even then ArcheAge probably will never reach the US at this rate.

     

    Nope what your speaking is the truth. People dont seem to understand that the f2p model is drowning the genre. But so goes life, you just move on to the next thing. Things get dummed down over time. Dont expect things to last forever. I have seen it with all of my hobbies. Its always painful to watch them fall from grace. If your an avid gamer then you should research some of the next gen consoles coming out. X86 architecture and comparable to a high end pc. The consoles will have exclusive games that are buy the o play still and wont have all the restrictions that f2p has placed on the pc markets. Sell your pc before its value plummets to far and start getting geared up for next gen consoles. I might suggest Dead Space 2 for ps3. Seriously awesome in an older game you can buy for $15
  • DauzqulDauzqul Detroit, MIPosts: 1,402Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Amaranthar

    ArcheAge isn't a Sandbox game. It's Themepark with Sandbox elements. The game play will still be level to level. It'll be better because of the Sandbox elements, but still the same basic concept. Like WoW had fishing, ArcheAge has planting trees.

    I don't think gamers as a whole quite realize this yet, but what they are tired of, that thing that they feel is old and tired and boring, it's the levelling content to content structure of Themepark games. But most don't realize it yet, because they've never experienced anything else. Yet they sense that there could be, and should be, "something more" in these "worlds" that they sense are so lacking in "something".

    451

    People who claim to be looking for a sanbox are really looking for a Casual Theme Park game...  with loads and loads of sandbox content, e.g., player cities, player economy, gigantic worlds that one can get lost in, a quest system that doesn't involve a glow trail or "x" on the map, etc. World PvP.

  • AmarantharAmaranthar OhioPosts: 2,425Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dauzqul
    Originally posted by Amaranthar

    ArcheAge isn't a Sandbox game. It's Themepark with Sandbox elements. The game play will still be level to level. It'll be better because of the Sandbox elements, but still the same basic concept. Like WoW had fishing, ArcheAge has planting trees.

    I don't think gamers as a whole quite realize this yet, but what they are tired of, that thing that they feel is old and tired and boring, it's the levelling content to content structure of Themepark games. But most don't realize it yet, because they've never experienced anything else. Yet they sense that there could be, and should be, "something more" in these "worlds" that they sense are so lacking in "something".

    451

    People who claim to be looking for a sanbox are really looking for a Casual Theme Park game...  with loads and loads of sandbox content, e.g., player cities, player economy, gigantic worlds that one can get lost in, a quest system that doesn't involve a glow trail or "x" on the map, etc. World PvP.

    What do you mean by "casual Themepark game"?

    Because in a Themepark game, you can't have the following for these reasons...

    • player economy- the Themepark economy is split up in levels, divided
    • gigantic worlds one can get lost in- in a Themepark you'll zone out into a zone not built for your level. I guess you can still get lost, but it's not playable once you zone
    • world PvP, how do you do that with the level differences in Themeparks? Oh, sure, it can be scaled, but then why have  these huge level differences in the first place? For the PvE? Then you're back to the above.
    And as to player cities, the things above affect it too. Economy in particular. JUst like guilds in Themepark games tend to have the same level groups, so would a player city and it just isn't quite the same thing.
     
    Edit to add: So, in affect, players wanting a "casual" Themepark still want a Themepar. The whole problem here is that it IS still Themepark game play, which is what they are tired off but don't understand what exactly it is they are tired of.

    Once upon a time....

  • AmarantharAmaranthar OhioPosts: 2,425Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by Amaranthar

    ArcheAge isn't a Sandbox game. It's Themepark with Sandbox elements. The game play will still be level to level. It'll be better because of the Sandbox elements, but still the same basic concept. Like WoW had fishing, ArcheAge has planting trees.

    I don't think gamers as a whole quite realize this yet, but what they are tired of, that thing that they feel is old and tired and boring, it's the levelling content to content structure of Themepark games. But most don't realize it yet, because they've never experienced anything else. Yet they sense that there could be, and should be, "something more" in these "worlds" that they sense are so lacking in "something".

    You think they haven't tried, but you don't really know. Or maybe there is no "something more" about sandboxes. Not to them.

    Haven't tried what? Sandbox game play? Most younger gamers never played P+P games (so not used to roleplay and worldliness that many Dungeon Masters fostered), nor a true Sandbox MMO like UO was. Hell, most current gamers who call SWG a Sandbox, if you look at what I've said in this post, that wasn't a true Sandbox either. Players were separated by their levelled skill set in SWG just like true Themepark games (which SWG wasn't either, it was something in between, and I think that hurt the game to a bigger extent than people realize).

    So as I said, most gamers don't really get it on what Sandbox game play really means. What they do know is that they are tired of the Themepark system, yet they don't comprehend what that means either, exactly because they don't know what Sandbox game play is. (And by Sandbox game play, I do not mean wide open king-of-the-hill PvP, which is just crazy for an MMO.)

    Once upon a time....

  • TrionicusTrionicus Fort Lauderdale, FLPosts: 497Member
    EQ Next sounds like it's coming out "relatively soon". Then again I'm in no rush anymore lol
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Amaranthar

    So as I said, most gamers don't really get it on what Sandbox game play really means. What they do know is that they are tired of the Themepark system, yet they don't comprehend what that means either, exactly because they don't know what Sandbox game play is. (And by Sandbox game play, I do not mean wide open king-of-the-hill PvP, which is just crazy for an MMO.)

    I know what sandbox gameplay is. I played UO. Very non-fun game for me. Much pretty a themepark, or even just a good SP game.

    And if people are tired of themepark (like i am tired of WOW), playing something else .. like a MOBA, or a ARPG. Themepark MMOs are not the only games out there.

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member

    EQ Next I am looking forward to hearing about and seeing stuff on it at the beginning of August, and ArcheAge, depending on what Trion does with it to publish it.

     

    I am sure a few others that I didn't name, but I am from the crowd that is looking forward to the Themeparks that will have a lot of sandbox in them.  I like depth and quality in many systems, hack and slash with token harvesting/crafting thrown in doesnt do much for me. 

     

     

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by Amaranthar
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by Amaranthar

    ArcheAge isn't a Sandbox game. It's Themepark with Sandbox elements. The game play will still be level to level. It'll be better because of the Sandbox elements, but still the same basic concept. Like WoW had fishing, ArcheAge has planting trees.

    I don't think gamers as a whole quite realize this yet, but what they are tired of, that thing that they feel is old and tired and boring, it's the levelling content to content structure of Themepark games. But most don't realize it yet, because they've never experienced anything else. Yet they sense that there could be, and should be, "something more" in these "worlds" that they sense are so lacking in "something".

    You think they haven't tried, but you don't really know. Or maybe there is no "something more" about sandboxes. Not to them.

    Haven't tried what? Sandbox game play? Most younger gamers never played P+P games (so not used to roleplay and worldliness that many Dungeon Masters fostered), nor a true Sandbox MMO like UO was. Hell, most current gamers who call SWG a Sandbox, if you look at what I've said in this post, that wasn't a true Sandbox either. Players were separated by their levelled skill set in SWG just like true Themepark games (which SWG wasn't either, it was something in between, and I think that hurt the game to a bigger extent than people realize).

    So as I said, most gamers don't really get it on what Sandbox game play really means. What they do know is that they are tired of the Themepark system, yet they don't comprehend what that means either, exactly because they don't know what Sandbox game play is. (And by Sandbox game play, I do not mean wide open king-of-the-hill PvP, which is just crazy for an MMO.)

    Whoa, whoa, whoa! This has been discussed before: PnP RPGs have little to no connection to MMORPGs. And RP and sandboxes are two different things too; One does not imply the other.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Quirhid
     

    Whoa, whoa, whoa! This has been discussed before: PnP RPGs have little to no connection to MMORPGs. And RP and sandboxes are two different things too; One does not imply the other.

    Not only that, PnP RPGs have little to do with CRPGs. I used to play pnp d&d in college. The feel is very different. Casting a fireball is a pretty big deal. The pace is also quite slow because humans are much worse at doing accounting & dice rolls compared to a computer.

    On the flip side, the gameplay is a lot more free-form.

    I am NOT looking for that kind of gameplay in a computer game.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Amaranthar
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Amaranthar

    So as I said, most gamers don't really get it on what Sandbox game play really means. What they do know is that they are tired of the Themepark system, yet they don't comprehend what that means either, exactly because they don't know what Sandbox game play is. (And by Sandbox game play, I do not mean wide open king-of-the-hill PvP, which is just crazy for an MMO.)

    I know what sandbox gameplay is. I played UO. Very non-fun game for me. Much pretty a themepark, or even just a good SP game.

    And if people are tired of themepark (like i am tired of WOW), playing something else .. like a MOBA, or a ARPG. Themepark MMOs are not the only games out there.

    [mod edit]

    No. But at the same time, does that mean everyone should ONLY look for sandbox if they are tired of themeparks?

    And you know what is the advantage of ARPG, MOBA, and other online games over sandbox? There are more choices. How many sandbox games are there? If you do like those, of course you should play them. However, i don't see many people playing Darkfall. The best is probably Eve, in terms of how people like it.

    And the point is this .. an avaialble game, no matter what the genre is, is always BETTR than a hypothetical non-existing game.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Amaranthar
     
    [mod edit]

    So it is bad advice to go play sandbox games, if one is tired of themepark, isn't it? Because there is no "decent" one avaialbe, in your words.

    So what is the alternative? Of coures it is to play games OTHER than sandbox &  themepark MMO. I think MOBA, ARPG, instanced pvp/pve games .. fit the bill nicely.

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,436Member Uncommon

    If you are comparing to every game on the market,Archeage at least covers that and then a little more.It is coming to N.America,it is in the stage of English translation.

    Trion has attained the publishing rights,sadly that is why you have heard so little of it as they have had the rights for over a month now but refuse to market it.SO it tells me they have signed a contract and will do nothing above that contract,strictly a money grab for them.It will not do this game any justice,i wish Square got a hold of this game instead.


    Samoan Diamond

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Amaranthar
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Amaranthar
     
    [mod edit]

    So it is bad advice to go play sandbox games, if one is tired of themepark, isn't it? Because there is no "decent" one avaialbe, in your words.

    So what is the alternative? Of coures it is to play games OTHER than sandbox &  themepark MMO. I think MOBA, ARPG, instanced pvp/pve games .. fit the bill nicely.

    [mod edit]

    LOL .. no one here is going to make any games. If you want people to make sandbox games, go talk to devs, or better yet fund it.

    If you are talking abotu advice to PLAYERs .. playing these non-sandbox games are obviously the right advice .. since in your words, "no one has a decent sandbox out". So no one should play the current sandbox games.

    That is YOUR assessemnt, not mine.

  • pantheronpantheron calhoun, GAPosts: 170Member
    [mod edit]

    in response to the ACTUAL purpose of this here post, I'd say there aren't really that many on the horizon for me either. I'm happy with the games I have, GW2 and Dragon's Prophet, that Im not really looking either.

    I play MMOs for the Forum PVP

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Amaranthar
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Amaranthar
    [mod edit]
    [mod edit]

    [mod edit]

    I have done nothing?

    You miss the part that i AGREE with you that "No one has a decent Sandbox out"? Don't you agree that if that is true (again, your assessment, not mine), then players should not play the sandbox out right now?

    And if that is true, and if players want to play video games, isn't it good advice to list some other genre to play with?

    I have done everything in support of your opinion. I suppose you are paradoxically and want me to disagree? How can i? I agree 100% with your opinion that "No one has a decent Sandbox out". So sad to be misunderstood .... sob sob!

  • ragz45ragz45 rochester hills, MIPosts: 686Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by birdycephon
    WildStar. FFXIV:ARR.

    yep... and ESO if your a dupe & willing to buy into their hype machine (flashbacks of SW:TOR)

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by ragz45
    Originally posted by birdycephon
    WildStar. FFXIV:ARR.

    yep... and ESO if your a dupe & willing to buy into their hype machine (flashbacks of SW:TOR)

    I wonder if ESO is going F2P. If so .. there is no reason not to "buy into their hype machine" since it costs nothing to play part of the game.

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,712Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Amaranthar
    • player economy- the Themepark economy is split up in levels, divided
    • gigantic worlds one can get lost in- in a Themepark you'll zone out into a zone not built for your level. I guess you can still get lost, but it's not playable once you zone
    • world PvP, how do you do that with the level differences in Themeparks? Oh, sure, it can be scaled, but then why have  these huge level differences in the first place? For the PvE? Then you're back to the above.

    WOW's player economy is split up in levels, and still a full-on player economy with supply and demand setting prices and a frequent need to both buy and sell things from the auction house.  It's a real economy, whether or not it fits some arbitrary quality bar you've set for yourself.

    You can't really have good world PVP with or without level differences.  If you have an RPG you have power differences, which makes for bad PVP.  If you have open world PVP you have population differences, which makes for bad PVP.  The closest you can get to good world PVP is something like Planetside 1 where a pop-locked continent provided PVP with no population differences and only limited power differences.  (Planetside 2 sadly seemed not to be pop-locked as often, which meant population imbalances, and offered more vertical progression, which meant power imbalances.)

    As for your earlier post, what gamers want are fresh gameplay patterns.

    Do you really think that in the last 30 years of RPGs, through the Ultimas, the Final Fantasies, the Might & Magics, the Baldur's Gates, the Mass Effects, through to WOW and beyond, that players have suddenly decided they're tired of leveling- and content-based RPGs?

    That's ridiculous!  What gamers want -- and you can see it simply by looking through those varied series -- is new gameplay patterns different from what they've experienced before.  Questing, monster-killing, story, and leveling aren't going anywhere anytime soon.  The old games were just as themepark-y as modern games, as will be games in the future.  The human mind hasn't been fundamentally altered by some alien force while we weren't watching.  The human mind still delights in exactly the same sorts of RPG experiences we enjoyed 30 years ago.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,983Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Axehilt
    Originally posted by Amaranthar
    • player economy- the Themepark economy is split up in levels, divided
    • gigantic worlds one can get lost in- in a Themepark you'll zone out into a zone not built for your level. I guess you can still get lost, but it's not playable once you zone
    • world PvP, how do you do that with the level differences in Themeparks? Oh, sure, it can be scaled, but then why have  these huge level differences in the first place? For the PvE? Then you're back to the above.

    WOW's player economy is split up in levels, and still a full-on player economy with supply and demand setting prices and a frequent need to both buy and sell things from the auction house.  It's a real economy, whether or not it fits some arbitrary quality bar you've set for yourself.

    You can't really have good world PVP with or without level differences.  If you have an RPG you have power differences, which makes for bad PVP.  If you have open world PVP you have population differences, which makes for bad PVP.  The closest you can get to good world PVP is something like Planetside 1 where a pop-locked continent provided PVP with no population differences and only limited power differences.  (Planetside 2 sadly seemed not to be pop-locked as often, which meant population imbalances, and offered more vertical progression, which meant power imbalances.)

    As for your earlier post, what gamers want are fresh gameplay patterns.

    Do you really think that in the last 30 years of RPGs, through the Ultimas, the Final Fantasies, the Might & Magics, the Baldur's Gates, the Mass Effects, through to WOW and beyond, that players have suddenly decided they're tired of leveling- and content-based RPGs?

    That's ridiculous!  What gamers want -- and you can see it simply by looking through those varied series -- is new gameplay patterns different from what they've experienced before.  Questing, monster-killing, story, and leveling aren't going anywhere anytime soon.  The old games were just as themepark-y as modern games, as will be games in the future.  The human mind hasn't been fundamentally altered by some alien force while we weren't watching.  The human mind still delights in exactly the same sorts of RPG experiences we enjoyed 30 years ago.

    OK, that is quote worthy, (after trimming it a bit)   Definitely what I'm looking for, don't care what "type" of game it is, just looking for some variety in the gameplay patterns of recent titles.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • rockin_uforockin_ufo St. Paul, MNPosts: 377Member Uncommon

    I know what a real sandbox is, if anyone is familiar with Lord of the Craft server from Minecraft..it's the definition of an sandbox done right. World totally created by players, lore, cities, guilds, ect..all player made. I ran a group against an evil cult of skeletons that were north of my settlement. It was friggen awesome..then they wiped the whole lore and started new and I lost interest and can't get back into it. 

     

    No new MMO even tries to connect with the player..each one has an underlining fact that they want your money and they don't care. That's why, to me, a sandbox is the best as it is player run and developer input is rare and far between. No new game coming out deviates from the standard themepark model, it's linear, boring, and I can see obvious flaws. I'm just so burnt from my favorite game of all time (GW1) releasing an absolute atrocity called GW2. Developers have defiantly changed over the past 8 years. Multiplayer games are the only games I can play nowadays. League of Legends seems to be the only one to hold my attention longer then 5 seconds.

    Whenever i step outside, somebody claims to see the light
    It seems to me that all of us have lost our patience.
    'cause everyone thinks they're right,
    And nobody thinks that there just might
    Be more than one road to our final destination--

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Axehilt
    Originally posted by Amaranthar

    WOW's player economy is split up in levels, and still a full-on player economy with supply and demand setting prices and a frequent need to both buy and sell things from the auction house.  It's a real economy, whether or not it fits some arbitrary quality bar you've set for yourself.

    You can't really have good world PVP with or without level differences.  If you have an RPG you have power differences, which makes for bad PVP.  If you have open world PVP you have population differences, which makes for bad PVP.  The closest you can get to good world PVP is something like Planetside 1 where a pop-locked continent provided PVP with no population differences and only limited power differences.  (Planetside 2 sadly seemed not to be pop-locked as often, which meant population imbalances, and offered more vertical progression, which meant power imbalances.)

    As for your earlier post, what gamers want are fresh gameplay patterns.

    Do you really think that in the last 30 years of RPGs, through the Ultimas, the Final Fantasies, the Might & Magics, the Baldur's Gates, the Mass Effects, through to WOW and beyond, that players have suddenly decided they're tired of leveling- and content-based RPGs?

    That's ridiculous!  What gamers want -- and you can see it simply by looking through those varied series -- is new gameplay patterns different from what they've experienced before.  Questing, monster-killing, story, and leveling aren't going anywhere anytime soon.  The old games were just as themepark-y as modern games, as will be games in the future.  The human mind hasn't been fundamentally altered by some alien force while we weren't watching.  The human mind still delights in exactly the same sorts of RPG experiences we enjoyed 30 years ago.

    OK, that is quote worthy, (after trimming it a bit)   Definitely what I'm looking for, don't care what "type" of game it is, just looking for some variety in the gameplay patterns of recent titles.

    image

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

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