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Encouraged Discrimination?

BuddyDudeBuddyDude Seattle, WAPosts: 47Member

So, learned today this has a built in and encouraged gearscore.  This tool does not seem good for community.   What do you think?

 

But, then again, three horns were never meant to play with long necks. They have low gear scores, the scum!

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Comments

  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,968Member Uncommon

    It can be bad for the community that ignores it. For those that don't ignore it, it ensures there is nothing the argue about.

    Gearscores came into MMOs because everyone was checking each others equipment, arguing about it and ruining their own and everyone elses fun.

    A gearscrore does this: Strong enough for this content? Yep.. No argument. Too weak for this content? Nope.. No argument.

    It saves time and arguments.

    Some people trying to do content they shouldn't be doing might get hurt feelings if they get kicked from a group.. but at the end of the day.. they wouldn't be hurt if they paid attention to their gearscore and stopped trying to do stuff they shouldn't be doing.

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Austin, TXPosts: 1,413Member Uncommon

    When gearscore gets mentioned seriously, I pretty much leave the group in question.   If gearscore is actually a serious consideration in the game, I usually just leave the game.

     

     

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon

    Yeah, I saw the gearscore for group spam last night.  I absolutely hate it.  I certainly won't be grouping with that.  The funny thing is that all through alpha and beta this wasn't mentioned once to my knowledge.  Ran multiple dungeons and it was never mentioned.

    Anyway, this is a really divisive feature and poor game design.  If it's done at all, it should be implemented like Rift where you can't queue for a random unless you meet the requirements.

    There are a couple of designers at Cryptic who are living in 2005 for sure.  This isn't the only archaic mechanic implemented in the game.  Stil, it's a good game and you can enjoy it despite some of the cruft built into it.

  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,968Member Uncommon
    Just to clarify what I said above.. I'm not all for gearscore, I'd rather it wasn't there. I do think it's a necessary evil though. No matter what happens, there will always be people complaining people arn't geared enough with or without a gearscore. The gearscore just removes the most annoying parts of that process.
  • BuddyDudeBuddyDude Seattle, WAPosts: 47Member

    @vannor - You make a lot of good points. I did not even think to look at it that way. I don't like the elite/snobby aura that dreadfully hangs and follows the gearscore around. However maybe this game will call people on it early and instead use it as a tool or guide some like another poster said; minimum requirments.  However you are right, people will and do try to slip by and ride the snake.

     

    I should fix my op, it was more of a question then I had made it. 

  • IkedaIkeda Largo, FLPosts: 2,204Member Uncommon
    The problem with GS every time it's introduced is people use it to draw a hard line in the sand.  The difference between a GS of 250 - 300 is fairly big.  The difference of 290 - 300 is not and yet neither will be allowed to join a run where the person is shouting for 300.  I ran into this with Wrath.  How do I get gear if I'm not allowed into runs to get gear? You have to get geared up SOMEHOW.

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  • Don't worry about gear score, join a friendly guild. Even a competitive, elite guild will usually help you get the gear you need. Although there are the maniacal, a-hole guilds out there too that will turn you away without the proper gear score. I haven't encoutered nearly as many of the latter though.
  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,230Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Arglebargle

    When gearscore gets mentioned seriously, I pretty much leave the group in question.   If gearscore is actually a serious consideration in the game, I usually just leave the game.

    doubt you reached alot of endcontent yet, did ya?

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member

    Gear in this game is nothing like it is in the others. It's really REALLY easy to get, they even have an in game helper called a broker that tells you where to get your next upgrades if it be by the auction house or completing a task. So even if people are being stupid about this it's not that difficult to catch up. and I doubt very much it takes an enormous amount of dungeon running to actually achieve the goals you need for your play style. 

    Also, if someone end game is taking the trinity seriously, they can't play honestly. If they think that the trinity is at all necessary to finish and they are acting all leetist about it call them out because that's not how the game is designed and they are just trying to cover for their own lack of skill. I usually don't make statements like this and I usually hate the leetist people who spew this stuff at every turn but in this case the way this game was designed to be trinity lite, it's true, they aren't what they claim to be if they are expecting a perfectly built trinity run every time.

  • Total_HuntTotal_Hunt ChichesterPosts: 65Member
    It's a useful tool for forming PUG's. But the butthurt wannabe l33t kids abuse it and use it to discriminate. As previous posters have said, join a guild then it doesn't matter.
  • RoinRoin Baltimore, MDPosts: 2,926Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vannor
    Just to clarify what I said above.. I'm not all for gearscore, I'd rather it wasn't there. I do think it's a necessary evil though. No matter what happens, there will always be people complaining people arn't geared enough with or without a gearscore. The gearscore just removes the most annoying parts of that process.

    Have to agree. 

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  • psiicpsiic Tampa, FLPosts: 941Member Uncommon

    You know I personally am an old school gamer. 

     

    I was using my head and working out raid tactics for 72 man epic boss take downs back in Everquest, and we NEVER even NEEDED pvp meters, much less gearscores.

    All we needed was our brains, creativity, and tactics. We worked with what we had, and we included ALL of our guildies and friends. We NEVER turned anyone away because they did not have the right gear.

     

    This whole epeen elitist gearscore bullshit evolved with and for the " kindergarten " gamers. This whole new generation of gamerwannabes that emerged with WoW. Those players that are too stupid and or lazy to think for themselves.  You know the ones I mean those players who can't even decide for themselves what skills to load they have to wait for some equally retarded epeenist to post a build for them. The same players too brain-dead to even step off the glowing sparkly path even if it means walking past five treasure chests sitting just out of reach.

     

    Frankly I am disqusted by players that insist this is a tool they need, but I am not surprised at all that the game devs think their players are so stupid that they can not play the game without it.

    It becomes more obvious every day that game developers think all gamers are morons and maybe we are, after all we keep buying any crap they wrap in a pretty wrapper.

  • JDogg126JDogg126 Southeast, MIPosts: 44Member

    gearscore is controversial but not universally panned as a bad idea.

    it's very easy to form your own group and not have gearscore be part of that process at all.

    but i can tell you that this is not a game system problem, it's a people problem.  you have people who play these games who are assholes who min/max everything and will whine or leave if other people are not playing exactly how they want them to play.  there is no way to remove assholes from the game so no matter what you do in this area you're still going to have jerks looking at what other people have on and judge them for their gear.  it would be nice if there was some way for the community to down vote those players and when their reputation gets low enough those assholes can't find any groups anymore.

  • ThorkuneThorkune Eastern, KYPosts: 1,828Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Arglebargle

    When gearscore gets mentioned seriously, I pretty much leave the group in question.   If gearscore is actually a serious consideration in the game, I usually just leave the game.

     

     

    This /

    I have seen people with amazing gear suck in a group, while the noob in all greens is one of the best contributors. In most games, there are plenty of ways to get awesome gear without having a lot of raid experience. gear doesn't equal greatness.

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by itgrowls

    Gear in this game is nothing like it is in the others. It's really REALLY easy to get, they even have an in game helper called a broker that tells you where to get your next upgrades if it be by the auction house or completing a task. So even if people are being stupid about this it's not that difficult to catch up. and I doubt very much it takes an enormous amount of dungeon running to actually achieve the goals you need for your play style. 

    Also, if someone end game is taking the trinity seriously, they can't play honestly. If they think that the trinity is at all necessary to finish and they are acting all leetist about it call them out because that's not how the game is designed and they are just trying to cover for their own lack of skill. I usually don't make statements like this and I usually hate the leetist people who spew this stuff at every turn but in this case the way this game was designed to be trinity lite, it's true, they aren't what they claim to be if they are expecting a perfectly built trinity run every time.

    What dungeons have you done? The Cloak Tower? Come back again once you are doing end game hard modes.

    Gear matters, so does the trinity. Unless you want to waste lots of money on the store healthstones.

  • sschruppsschrupp Cedar Rapids, IAPosts: 386Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Thane
    Originally posted by Arglebargle

    When gearscore gets mentioned seriously, I pretty much leave the group in question.   If gearscore is actually a serious consideration in the game, I usually just leave the game.

    doubt you reached alot of endcontent yet, did ya?

    It's possible for people in guilds and groups of friends to enjoy end game content (and the rest of the game) in games without focusing on whether or not people have the best equipement available to them through farming. Believe it or not, some people play games to relax and have fun. I know, crazy idea, huh? And yes, those people reach end content. Even in pugs.

     

    I both like and don't like the included gear score. I like it because it gives me a brainless way to determine if a piece of equipment is an "improvement". I dislike it because it makes it easy for people to be leet snobs. Then again that dislike turns into a like because it makes it easier to avoid leet snob groups.

     

    "Group doing XX needs healer!" vs "Group doing XX needs healer 9571 or higher GS only or L2P" <-- I can easily tell I'd rather play with the first group even if my GS is higher than what the second group is requesting.

     

    Now of course there are also people concerned about gear score (that aren't leet snobs) because they get joy out of doing end content in 12 minutes 27 seconds as opposed to a group that doesn't worry about gear score doing the same content in 21 minutes 15 seconds. Both groups might be having the same amount of fun. Different people get joy in different ways. It just seems the ones concerned about gear more often suffer from the leet snob effect.

     

    End game content doesn't require certain equipment or gear score. Certain equipment just makes end game content easier. I personally like a challenge. The challenge, difficulty, almost wiping and managing to still overcome... that's what is fun to me. Memorable moments. Stepping into the most difficult content of a game and easily beating it in a few minutes is a boring disappointment.

    Insert random misqoute here

  • TsumoroTsumoro EozeaPosts: 408Member Uncommon

    Gearscore in itself is not a bad thing by itself. It is used to direct whether you are equipped for the job. However in MMO's where many strive to be better than their peers it creates an elitist behaviour which isolates others. 

    For example, if you have a dungeon which is aimed at a GS of a 1000 and you have 5 people per party then you would expect each other those individuals to have at least 1000. However, people want to be elitist about it and always up the bar because they wish to 'cake walk' through the content to get further and further geared. 

    So before long you get people asking for people with 3000 GS for 1000 GS content because any less than that requires more time and effort and thus prevents them for getting higher... quicker. 

    The last thing you want to do is isolate other players from playing with you at the end of the day.

     

    Gearscore is more effective in games which are straight tab target based combat. Because hits are pretty much guarenteed as long as you are targetted. Myself, I have done the Cloak Tower as a Trickster Rogue without getting hit a single time purely because the ability to dodge and use combat advantages which prevent me getting injured. So I would say that GS is actually less an issue in Neverwinter BUT people will make a big issue out of it. 

     

    Neverwinter is a DND themed game and in honest people should just play with people whom they enjoy the company of. Much like how adventuring should be. 

  • hatboxhatbox Fresno, CAPosts: 45Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by drwebs

    @vannor - You make a lot of good points. I did not even think to look at it that way. I don't like the elite/snobby aura that dreadfully hangs and follows the gearscore around. However maybe this game will call people on it early and instead use it as a tool or guide some like another poster said; minimum requirments.  However you are right, people will and do try to slip by and ride the snake.

     

    I should fix my op, it was more of a question then I had made it. 

    Gear scores help some people.  And here's the thing.  You can't regulate/dictate human behavoir, no matter what you provide or leave out of games. There will always be the moron/a$$ sector that talks far too much to be playing in chat. Seem to get far more than your fair share in f2p games.  

  • birdycephonbirdycephon Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 1,314Member
    It doesnt matter if they have gear score or something else, the fact remains that there will be content in the game that you will simply be undergeared for.
  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,205Member Uncommon

    in real life...you need a high school diploma and 2 years expeience in fast-paced manufacturing position to be a line leader...aka stand around look at others work.

     

    in the virtual life when others lives depend on your tanking or healing...(from the rp perspective)...or where others several hours of their free time which isn't a lot at times (from the realistic perspective) I'd imagine there should be some minimum requirements as well.

     

    "this isn't a job, games are meant to be fun" you scream. When the group employs a tank to do his thing for them...from the RP perspective it kinda is, bro.

     

    finally, if this is what you think discrimination is then your knowledge needs higher gearscore.

    image

  • SlampigSlampig Chantilly, VAPosts: 2,376Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vannor
    Just to clarify what I said above.. I'm not all for gearscore, I'd rather it wasn't there. I do think it's a necessary evil though. No matter what happens, there will always be people complaining people arn't geared enough with or without a gearscore. The gearscore just removes the most annoying parts of that process.

    I don't seem to recall people complaining about other not being geared enough until I first saw gear score and item levels introduced. Maybe we don't play the same games...

    What I DO remember people complaining about was class. All the way back to original EQ I recall people being left out because the character they were playing wasn't the correct class and I always thought that sucked, now it is compounded on with gear score and item levels and it sucks.

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • AmjocoAmjoco Layton, UTPosts: 4,777Member Uncommon
    I'm just now looking into this game. I'm somewhat confused on gear and the "foundry" system. What keeps someone from making a mission and adding epic loot on a very simple level? Is there a requirement for the author to achieve before developing a mission? Sorry for the dumb question. 

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • birdycephonbirdycephon Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 1,314Member
    Originally posted by Slampig

    Originally posted by Vannor
    Just to clarify what I said above.. I'm not all for gearscore, I'd rather it wasn't there. I do think it's a necessary evil though. No matter what happens, there will always be people complaining people arn't geared enough with or without a gearscore. The gearscore just removes the most annoying parts of that process.

    I don't seem to recall people complaining about other not being geared enough until I first saw gear score and item levels introduced. Maybe we don't play the same games...

    What I DO remember people complaining about was class. All the way back to original EQ I recall people being left out because the character they were playing wasn't the correct class and I always thought that sucked, now it is compounded on with gear score and item levels and it sucks.

     

    People didnt complain, but were astounded that no matter what they did they kept wiping. Gearscore just shown a light on the problem.
  • thecapitainethecapitaine West Chester, PAPosts: 401Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tsumoro

    Gearscore in itself is not a bad thing by itself. It is used to direct whether you are equipped for the job. However in MMO's where many strive to be better than their peers it creates an elitist behaviour which isolates others. 

    For example, if you have a dungeon which is aimed at a GS of a 1000 and you have 5 people per party then you would expect each other those individuals to have at least 1000. However, people want to be elitist about it and always up the bar because they wish to 'cake walk' through the content to get further and further geared. 

    So before long you get people asking for people with 3000 GS for 1000 GS content because any less than that requires more time and effort and thus prevents them for getting higher... quicker. 

    The last thing you want to do is isolate other players from playing with you at the end of the day.

    This is my main concern when it comes to implementing gearscore.  I do like the automated aspect of games telling people whether they're sufficiently geared to do a certain tier of content but the minute players get their hands on it, it becomes a steadily upward moving threshold, often locking out new players.  I've seen this firsthand with DCUO and their CR gear system-- people asking for absurd numbers for content that simply doesn't require it.

  • AmjocoAmjoco Layton, UTPosts: 4,777Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Amjoco
    I'm just now looking into this game. I'm somewhat confused on gear and the "foundry" system. What keeps someone from making a mission and adding epic loot on a very simple level? Is there a requirement for the author to achieve before developing a mission? Sorry for the dumb question. 

    Anyone plz? I

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

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