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This won't be DAOC2, it's missing a key piece!

BearKnightBearKnight Augusta, GAPosts: 461Member

I've grown concerned over the past few weeks over people claiming this game to be the successor to DAOC. About how someone is "finally willing to bring the best of what an MMO has to offer back to the genre".

 

Yet all I see is the mentions of PvP?

 

Did you all forget that what made DAOC amazing is that it was a two-sided coin?

 

DAOC was AMAZING, because it had a PvP Focused Realm vs Realm system that was reliant on a PVE system completely seperate and segregated from the RvR/PvP aspect.

 

You didn't get all your gear from the PvP side of things. You got your gear from leveling with friends in the PVE side, and slaved over a hard forge to make your armor & weapons (or looted that really rare stuff with the cool procs to show off on the battlefield).

 

I've played several "PvP-Only" products over the years, but none captured me like DAOC did.

 

I could go and PvP/RvR for a couple of days, and then when I got tired of that I could chill and relax in Coruscating Mines on my hibernian enchanter, or I could log onto my Necromancer and go trapsing throughout Stonehenge for more money to be able to help fund upgrade & repair costs for Keep doors in the frontiers!!!!!!

 

 

As a hardcore DAOC fan, I believe most of you have lost sight of what DAOC actually was. A two-hit combination that hasn't been seen again since its inception. Camelot Unchained is not aiming to recapture DAOC itself, but only the RvR aspect which could easily, and often did, become repetitive, boring, and frustrating.

 

Look at Planetside 2. It is 100% PvP/RvR focused. That is your future if Camelot Unchained is unwilling to go the DAOC route completely, and not just cherry picks the easiest parts.

 

 

Sincerely,

Dat Bear

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Comments

  • meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon
    If you liked the mandatory raiding and gear grind that was in TOA, DAOC is still online. Go re-sub it. CU is for the players who thought TOA made DAOC worse. Players like me.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • BearKnightBearKnight Augusta, GAPosts: 461Member
    Originally posted by meddyck
    If you liked the mandatory raiding and gear grind that was in TOA, DAOC is still online. Go re-sub it. CU is for the players who thought TOA made DAOC worse. Players like me.

    Whenever someone brings up DAOC & how amazing it was they're speaking pre-TOA.

     

    Don't bring nasty TOA into this please sir :).

     

    Raiding also wasn't mandatory pre-TOA to be competitive in RvR. I never once got ANY artifacts even post-TOA and I was one of the highest RR Shadowblades on Lancelot for the first couple years post-TOA before I quit. (can you guess my name?)

     

    -Cheers

  • grimjakkgrimjakk Tumwater, WAPosts: 192Member

    Actually, it's NOT supposed to be the successor to DAOC...  although we all DO kinda look at it that way.  ;)

    The 'dual-sided coin' of PvE/PvP has been pretty well done out there.  There are a lot of games to choose from that fit that fit that general mold.  This is intended to be a niche game that captures the flavor of DAOC's RvR without the PvE grind.   And although DAOC's PvE was a huge improvement over EQ's, it WAS a grind. 

    I think people talking about DAOC's "amazing" PvE either haven't played it in awhile or are closet masochists. ;)

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,981Member Uncommon

    It's not a successor really to DAOC in anyway, pre or post TOA, because it replaces a very long, level based PVE based progression curve with one that is entirely focused on RVR instead. (more like the Realm Ranks)

    Not really news however, most of us are quite aware of this, in fact, it's one reason why I'm not as enthusiastic about the project as others, because I enjoyed the way DAOC was set up. (sort of a Perfect Storm of MMORPG design IMO)

    This title will need to cut it's own path and succeed on it's merits and not on how much like DAOC it is or isn't.

     

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by grimjakk

    Actually, it's NOT supposed to be the successor to DAOC...  although we all DO kinda look at it that way.  ;)

    The 'dual-sided coin' of PvE/PvP has been pretty well done out there.  There are a lot of games to choose from that fit that fit that general mold.  This is intended to be a niche game that captures the flavor of DAOC's RvR without the PvE grind.   And although DAOC's PvE was a huge improvement over EQ's, it WAS a grind. 

    I think people talking about DAOC's "amazing" PvE either haven't played it in awhile or are closet masochists. ;)

    lol i agree the PVE was the main reason I could never get into the game back in the day :P

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • BearKnightBearKnight Augusta, GAPosts: 461Member
    Originally posted by grimjakk

    Actually, it's NOT supposed to be the successor to DAOC...  although we all DO kinda look at it that way.  ;)

    The 'dual-sided coin' of PvE/PvP has been pretty well done out there.  There are a lot of games to choose from that fit that fit that general mold.  This is intended to be a niche game that captures the flavor of DAOC's RvR without the PvE grind.   And although DAOC's PvE was a huge improvement over EQ's, it WAS a grind. 

    I think people talking about DAOC's "amazing" PvE either haven't played it in awhile or are closet masochists. ;)

    I've yet to find a single MMO other than DAOC that has an RvR/PvE dual-sided coin to it.

    Not a single one out there.

  • BearKnightBearKnight Augusta, GAPosts: 461Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by grimjakk

    Actually, it's NOT supposed to be the successor to DAOC...  although we all DO kinda look at it that way.  ;)

    The 'dual-sided coin' of PvE/PvP has been pretty well done out there.  There are a lot of games to choose from that fit that fit that general mold.  This is intended to be a niche game that captures the flavor of DAOC's RvR without the PvE grind.   And although DAOC's PvE was a huge improvement over EQ's, it WAS a grind. 

    I think people talking about DAOC's "amazing" PvE either haven't played it in awhile or are closet masochists. ;)

    lol i agree the PVE was the main reason I could never get into the game back in the day :P

    Or neither of you learned how it actually functioned so you got frustrated and logged out :/. I've been playing on the servers that "shall not be mentioned" as to not break rules here. The PVE is in no way "masochistic" in nature.

  • VyntVynt Glendale, CAPosts: 632Member Uncommon

    I agree that the lack of PVE concerns me.

    As far as obtaining gear, in daoc it was mostly crafted, and in UC there is suppose to be a robust crafting system.

    There are also other things to do like housing, inns, the depths, etc besides rvr, so not pure rvr, but definitely the main focus.

    I've never seen UC as daoc2, just follows in that direction partly, but has a lot of things I would like to play.

    I believe I will have fun with this game, but unsure of the longevity for me due to the lack of pve. Although near the end of my daoc playing days, I was only in RvR, lol. I guess I just like that option. Well, the game has to get funded first or all this is moot.

  • tauraktaurak rock cave, WVPosts: 174Member

    DAoC had some pretty horribly crappy PvE.

    I mean all you had to do was setup a rez chain, and throw yourself at every boss for a few hours if you couldn't kill it the proper way. Some of the bosses and stuff looked cool though, ill give it that.

  • TroianmanTroianman Somewhere, CAPosts: 82Member

    BearKnight you must bear in mind....(hehe couldn't help myself) that it isn't PvP only, it is progression through PvP only which does not exclude PvE content but it does exclude things like waiting for Eramai to spawn so you can kill him and have a chance at seeing Cloudsong drop.

    Also it isn't meant to be DAoC 2 or an actual successor to DAoC, it is more of a spiritual successor in terms of the approach, the lore, the intent to emphasize RvR, etc. It is inspired by but not within the direct lineage. So similar...ish but not retexture/rename and go.

    And if you thought RvR in DAoC was repetitive, boring, and frustrating I am honestly not trying to be mean or flame you in any way but you were probably doing it wrong. RvR was hands down the least boring or repetitive activity in the game, especially if you didn't just follow or join a zerg. The times that it became frustrating were when a group could steamroll through you due to nothing besides their gear that they obtained in PvE.

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,981Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BearKnight
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by grimjakk

    Actually, it's NOT supposed to be the successor to DAOC...  although we all DO kinda look at it that way.  ;)

    The 'dual-sided coin' of PvE/PvP has been pretty well done out there.  There are a lot of games to choose from that fit that fit that general mold.  This is intended to be a niche game that captures the flavor of DAOC's RvR without the PvE grind.   And although DAOC's PvE was a huge improvement over EQ's, it WAS a grind. 

    I think people talking about DAOC's "amazing" PvE either haven't played it in awhile or are closet masochists. ;)

    lol i agree the PVE was the main reason I could never get into the game back in the day :P

    Or neither of you learned how it actually functioned so you got frustrated and logged out :/. I've been playing on the servers that "shall not be mentioned" as to not break rules here. The PVE is in no way "masochistic" in nature.

    Cooperative would be a better term, though I'm sort of cheating the system in the same not to be mentioned world with a Theuri while at lower levels, but grouping up with your mates at the upper levels is the clear path to rapid advancement. 

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • MoraxoMoraxo VispPosts: 17Member
    Originally posted by BearKnight

    I've grown concerned over the past few weeks over people claiming this game to be the successor to DAOC. About how someone is "finally willing to bring the best of what an MMO has to offer back to the genre".

    If you came to Camelot Unchained looking for DAoC with updated graphics, you're in for a disappointment. They've repeatedly stated that this neither is nor is trying to be DAoC 2.

     

    Originally posted by BearKnight

    DAOC was AMAZING, because it had a PvP Focused Realm vs Realm system that was reliant on a PVE system completely seperate and segregated from the RvR/PvP aspect.

    Could you please rephrase that sentence? It seems like you first say that RvR relies on PvE, then go on to say that PvE and RvR are completely segregated... i'm a bit confused

     

    Originally posted by BearKnight

    You didn't get all your gear from the PvP side of things. You got your gear from leveling with friends in the PVE side, and slaved over a hard forge to make your armor & weapons (or looted that really rare stuff with the cool procs to show off on the battlefield).

    You don't actually "get gear" from PvP either. You may be able to secure some sweet mining spots, but in the end it's people "slaving over a hard forge to make your armor & weapons", without being put out of business by looted goodies.

     

     

    Originally posted by BearKnight

    I've played several "PvP-Only" products over the years, but none captured me like DAOC did.

    I can only speak for myself, but i feel that's because PvP in other games isn't as meaningful, doesn't give you a sense of entitlement and pride, and is more focused on instant action rather than building something up long-term. I definately expect that in CU.

    Originally posted by BearKnight

    I could go and PvP/RvR for a couple of days, and then when I got tired of that I could chill and relax in Coruscating Mines on my hibernian enchanter, or I could log onto my Necromancer and go trapsing throughout Stonehenge for more money to be able to help fund upgrade & repair costs for Keep doors in the frontiers!!!!!!

    Now how awesome would it be that instead of farming mobs 'til you got X gold, you could go mine the actual rocks or cut down the actual trees that you will later put in place to repair your keep? Ofcourse you can't be as relaxed and chilled out since you'll be vulnerable to attacks, but there's crafting and building to relax, or other games in the worst case.

     

     

    Originally posted by BearKnight

    As a hardcore DAOC fan, I believe most of you have lost sight of what DAOC actually was. A two-hit combination that hasn't been seen again since its inception. Camelot Unchained is not aiming to recapture DAOC itself, but only the RvR aspect which could easily, and often did, become repetitive, boring, and frustrating.

    The "2-hit combination" market has long been lost to WoW and others. I believe most of the people who stayed and kept on playing were in it for the RvR only. It was the players who see PvE as some annoying necessity you have to do to be viable in PvP. Those are the people this game is aimed at.

    And if anything becomes "repetitive, boring, and frustrating" i'd assume it's the ever-same PvE with the ever-same mobs that your ever-same char or group can defeat in the ever-same manner.

     

     

    Originally posted by BearKnight

    Look at Planetside 2. It is 100% PvP/RvR focused. That is your future if Camelot Unchained is unwilling to go the DAOC route completely, and not just cherry picks the easiest parts.

    While Planetside 2 may compare to some degree (3-realm PvP focus), it's an entirely different matter overall:

    - It's an FPS

    - It's Pay2Win

    - It has no crafting, housing or other player-driven content.

    - It has basically only 1 RvR goal with comparatively little purpose.

    - It's much more fast-paced and instant-action.

     

     

    Hope my views are understandable, i feel you're not doing CU justice if you presume it's boring, repetitive PvP only and going to end up like PS2 ;)

     

     

  • The developer itselfs says we shouldn't think of the game as DAoC 2.
  • TaldierTaldier Camp Hill, PAPosts: 235Member
    Originally posted by BearKnight
    Originally posted by grimjakk

    Actually, it's NOT supposed to be the successor to DAOC...  although we all DO kinda look at it that way.  ;)

    The 'dual-sided coin' of PvE/PvP has been pretty well done out there.  There are a lot of games to choose from that fit that fit that general mold.  This is intended to be a niche game that captures the flavor of DAOC's RvR without the PvE grind.   And although DAOC's PvE was a huge improvement over EQ's, it WAS a grind. 

    I think people talking about DAOC's "amazing" PvE either haven't played it in awhile or are closet masochists. ;)

    I've yet to find a single MMO other than DAOC that has an RvR/PvE dual-sided coin to it.

    Not a single one out there.

    EQ2 actually did pretty well at both during the early years of their PvP servers... but that went downhill fast when they jumped on the WoW bandwagon.

     

    But that aside, as for the OP, this isnt supposed to be DAOC2, and CSE has never claimed that it was.  Its certainly taking many important elements from DAOC and other old-school games but its an evolution of those concepts mixed with new ideas, not just a direct copy.  And while the game is based on RvR, its not just about RvR.  You have crafting and harvesting that you can do, building, exploring, etc.  Just with the ever present threats that come along with being in a warzone.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    I've never seen it as daoc 2

    I see it as daoc, eve, planetside 1, perpetuum and minecraft shoved in a blender.

    Luckily I like all those games.
  • nf4mousnf4mous Arcadia, CAPosts: 45Member
    Originally posted by BearKnight
    Originally posted by meddyck
    If you liked the mandatory raiding and gear grind that was in TOA, DAOC is still online. Go re-sub it. CU is for the players who thought TOA made DAOC worse. Players like me.

    Whenever someone brings up DAOC & how amazing it was they're speaking pre-TOA.

     

    Don't bring nasty TOA into this please sir :).

     

    Raiding also wasn't mandatory pre-TOA to be competitive in RvR. I never once got ANY artifacts even post-TOA and I was one of the highest RR Shadowblades on Lancelot for the first couple years post-TOA before I quit. (can you guess my name?)

     

    -Cheers

    hey bear, i shared your same concerns with mark (regarding the great feel of pre-TOA pve).  yes, it was a nice break to farm at a leisurely pace when i didn't want to RvR, but to be honest with myself, i didn't play DAOC for the pve.   i believe it was stated you would be able to farm in CU (just for supplies to eventually make gear, and not coin itself) during RvR downtimes, except the zones would be PvP enabled.    At the moment, i'll take that over Gw2 or any other pve/pvp combined game that fails to get end game RvR correct.

     

    edit: moro is correct above... there still is plenty of PvE accumulation of materials that will be required to make the best gear.  you just won't level from it, and the PvE only zones are limited or don't exist.   speculation here, but perhaps they could add in PvE only zones somewhere down the line for casual aestheics / farming for materials (not gold) purposes.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Also ps2 is the best mmo in years.

    It ain't as good as the first, but its the best mmo pvp since eve / planetside 1.

    Dumps all over war, aion and gw2 as a rvr game.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Bear
    Gw2 would be the only other mmo I can think of with a perfect 50/50 pve/pvp balance like daoc.

    Unfortunately it is to daoc as wow is to EQ.

    E.g. they had a design meeting and thought "lets make daoc for teenagers"
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,447Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by grimjakk

    Actually, it's NOT supposed to be the successor to DAOC...  although we all DO kinda look at it that way.  ;)

    The 'dual-sided coin' of PvE/PvP has been pretty well done out there.  There are a lot of games to choose from that fit that fit that general mold.  This is intended to be a niche game that captures the flavor of DAOC's RvR without the PvE grind.   And although DAOC's PvE was a huge improvement over EQ's, it WAS a grind. 

    I think people talking about DAOC's "amazing" PvE either haven't played it in awhile or are closet masochists. ;)

    lol i agree the PVE was the main reason I could never get into the game back in the day :P

    I loved the PvE in DAoC. Great quest that you could solo and also had to get help from friends with. Large raids where you need 100+ people to kill a dragon. Open world dungeons that I spent hours doing dungeon crawls on. The art and maps were really well done for their time and I had great adventures exploring the PvE world. I might get on board with CU if they also brought some of that back to the table. Not all... just some.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    The thing with early daoc pve.

    Wouldn't that just put cu in competition with EQ next?

    Im getting the vibe that eqn will drop all the instanced crap and ever escalating tiered item sets and be more of a modern version of vanilla EQ / vanilla daoc pve.
  • TaranxTaranx Victoria, BCPosts: 153Member

    I thought the PvE was excellent in DAoC from day one (pre ToA) stepping out of EQ, UO. I'm sure it is dated now, but the PvE and RvR "balance" was perfect for my game style back so long ago

    Sadly I was lured away by better graphical games, but really missed the mechanics of DAoC. By the time I went back I was damaged and couldn't get past the graphics and yes the PvE was now "ho hum". When it came to RvR I was so far behind on gear and what not I had to simply close the chapter to a great gaming experince .. for it's time

     

  • HarafnirHarafnir VikingvillePosts: 1,324Member Uncommon

    Played DaoC six months ago again, after being away since release. Nowadays the whole game is in RvR zones, tiered by 10th level. You can not go outside the keep for a single bug quest without looking over your shoulder for enemy raiding parties. It was AMAZINGLY fun! There WAS PvE but in a PvP zone, but at the same time, you were shoulder to shoulder with your own sides PvP raiding party covering you... then disappearing for an attack, you are alone for a few minutes and you feel the prickle down your spine... chat was constantly filled with enemy movements.

    I must say, the new DaoC the full PvP DaoC was a LOT more fun than the old one. Fast, furious and chaotic, whatever you tried to achieve. I killed my 10 bugs to deliver a quest, and killed a Scout and an Armsman as I went back to the keep. and I still took my time to go back crafting when I wanted an hour of relaxation.

    If they build it after how DaoC works today... I will join in at release and probably stay.

    "This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
    It should be thrown with great force"

  • redcappredcapp brook, NYPosts: 722Member
    Thank God, a thread to discuss the different PvE system!  LOL.
  • RocketeerRocketeer NachrodtPosts: 1,304Member

    Tbh i never could get into DaoC due to the PvE myself. Im a incredibly impatient kind of person, and simply do not have the stomach to force myself to play through xy horribly boring pve levels only to get to the "good" pvp part. So yeah, i gave DaoC a pass and decided on a combo of EvE and WoW. That was back in 2004-2006btw.

    Warhammer on the other hand ... yeah i liked the game, twinked most classes to about 30 through open pvp alone(nope, didn't like the pve there either) until i noticed that the RvR didn't actually get more fun and what we where hearing from max level chars at that time was grim news indeed... so yeah i quit early(about 2 months in) and went back to EvE. Holy crap how many years i played that game ...

  • shaodrinshaodrin sdf, AKPosts: 30Member

    the only good thing about daocs pve was that you were able to build a group of 3 max lvl chars (tank heal pbae)  grind your twinks to max lvl within 3-5 hours

    maybe some of you only see the good part of actual lvling there ... sitting arround with some folks talking about stuff and killing some mobs wich was actually more of a chat room than real "xping"

    but then there were the hours over hours where you didnt find a group so you had to solo a same lvl mob sit down and reg for a min ... hows that "fun" ? even wows quest hub pve is better than the shit you had to go through back in 2001 only to reach max lvl so you were actually able to do something enjoyable

    theres a reason mythic increased exp rates introduced quests wich gave like 50% of the lvl per quest etc ... lvling is fun for the first maybe even the scnd time but after that its just stupid (not to mention the 14hour ml raids with 90% of the raid being stick-afk)

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