Originally posted by Quizzical I prefer to know a game's business model up front before deciding whether to play it. When a company advertises a game as "free to play", they're trying to hide the business model, as they're never going to truly give away everything for free. Do you think "free to play" will eventually become a derogatory term that marketers avoid for that reason?
This is why I don't like F2P or B2P? Even with games like GW2, you never know what changes might be made to the cash shop and the items available in it. All it takes is a bad quarter or two financially, and a company will do most anything to increase revenue.....
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
Anyway, I've yet to see a free to play title that encouraged long term time investment, and while they may be replacing sub models in popularity, I don't think they're intended to replace sub-games in playstyle.
Sure. And the playstyle is increasingly short-term, without commitment, so players can experience more titles.
I think subs still have a chance and a community but has lost a lot of steam from the corporate side. Free to play is simply a trending cash grab that is establishing its own market and will hopefully take a chunk of the 'business ethic' out of the sub based genre and set us back toward the days when a sub carried weight in the eyes of the devs.
I doubt it. In the beginning, p2p is dominant. The fact that it is now shifted to f2p means that players are flocking to f2p because of their own choice. Think about it. Now there may be fewer choice for p2p .. but not a few years. The reason why more f2p games are built .. is because they are successful .. because players are flocking to them.
It is very clear the market trend is going from p2p to f2p. There is always a niche with some who don't like f2p .. but this is no more special than the niche who want to play text games, or whatever their preference is.
I haven't seen much proof that F2P has been stealing customers from sub games, if anything it seems that more people are joining the market thanks to F2P.
The popularity of F2P won't just nullify the demand for what sub games currently offer (or were supposed to be). So, until F2P can cover that gap I don't see them conquering the market outright (and I don't see them making any attempt to fill that gap).
As you stated, F2P titles will continue to become more short-term, and without commitment, until the players that are not looking for that turn elsewhere. Maybe it will be subs, maybe it will be some F2P mutant that offers something that F2P currently isn't designed for - I can't pretend to know.
The best answer for everyone here is to research the game before you put any cash down on it. Most of the answers you can get are from other people that have already played the game. The games forums are also a good way to research cash shop questions.
Originally posted by Quizzical I prefer to know a game's business model up front before deciding whether to play it. When a company advertises a game as "free to play", they're trying to hide the business model, as they're never going to truly give away everything for free. Do you think "free to play" will eventually become a derogatory term that marketers avoid for that reason?
This is why I don't like F2P or B2P? Even with games like GW2, you never know what changes might be made to the cash shop and the items available in it. All it takes is a bad quarter or two financially, and a company will do most anything to increase revenue.....
How does a sub change this.
Bad quarter and they add a mount for people to buy.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
The whole entire point of so-called F2P games is to get more from customers than a typical sub fee. There have been several videos at various game developer conferences about this. And the "free to download" bit is only in there to lower the barrier to entry. That said, it is only so games that are not considered to be good enough to warrant a box price or sub fee, or it wouldn't be considered a barrier to entry. So, in the end F2P is all about marketing and based on the premise that gamers are too stupid to know they are being ripped off.
Originally posted by Quizzical I prefer to know a game's business model up front before deciding whether to play it. When a company advertises a game as "free to play", they're trying to hide the business model, as they're never going to truly give away everything for free. Do you think "free to play" will eventually become a derogatory term that marketers avoid for that reason?
This is why I don't like F2P or B2P? Even with games like GW2, you never know what changes might be made to the cash shop and the items available in it. All it takes is a bad quarter or two financially, and a company will do most anything to increase revenue.....
How does a sub change this.
Bad quarter and they add a mount for people to buy.
Originally posted by Quizzical I prefer to know a game's business model up front before deciding whether to play it. When a company advertises a game as "free to play", they're trying to hide the business model, as they're never going to truly give away everything for free. Do you think "free to play" will eventually become a derogatory term that marketers avoid for that reason?
This is why I don't like F2P or B2P? Even with games like GW2, you never know what changes might be made to the cash shop and the items available in it. All it takes is a bad quarter or two financially, and a company will do most anything to increase revenue.....
How does a sub change this.
Bad quarter and they add a mount for people to buy.
In a sub game, adding cash items is a shady move.
In a F2P its a usual maintenance day.
It may be a shady move, but it is standard practice these days. That is not likely to decrease.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by Quizzical I prefer to know a game's business model up front before deciding whether to play it. When a company advertises a game as "free to play", they're trying to hide the business model, as they're never going to truly give away everything for free. Do you think "free to play" will eventually become a derogatory term that marketers avoid for that reason?
This is why I don't like F2P or B2P? Even with games like GW2, you never know what changes might be made to the cash shop and the items available in it. All it takes is a bad quarter or two financially, and a company will do most anything to increase revenue.....
How does a sub change this.
Bad quarter and they add a mount for people to buy.
In a sub game, adding cash items is a shady move.
In a F2P its a usual maintenance day.
It may be a shady move, but it is standard practice these days. That is not likely to decrease.
I can agree with that. You also have to consider though that most of those mounts are simply skins for another mount, whereas in F2P games its a 7day pass for a mount that moves at 4x normal mount speed.
That being said I have no issues with cash shops outside their gamble boxes and thier tendency to be the sole way of getting these super amazing items. Even with rent mechanics you at least know what you're paying for.
It seems to me that most F2P devs are aware of the outrage and anger caused by nickle and dime mechanics which is why they design the games to be short lived, shallow experiences. Between the player mill (old out, new in, in rapid succession) and the cheap development, running a game into the ground and replacing it with another cheap thrill is much easier than a 300mil behemoth title.
I mean, look at Aeria games site, 22 F2P titles alone, and likely that a few of them won't make it through summer. How many sub-based devs could carry that many titles?
Anyway, I've yet to see a free to play title that encouraged long term time investment, and while they may be replacing sub models in popularity, I don't think they're intended to replace sub-games in playstyle.
I think subs still have a chance and a community but has lost a lot of steam from the corporate side. Free to play is simply a trending cash grab that is establishing its own market and will hopefully take a chunk of the 'business ethic' out of the sub based genre and set us back toward the days when a sub carried weight in the eyes of the devs.
(I'm dreaming again right?)
Does Aeria develop their own games? At least some of the big pay-to-win publishers don't actually develop games, but rather, import games from places like South Korea.
Originally posted by Quizzical I prefer to know a game's business model up front before deciding whether to play it. When a company advertises a game as "free to play", they're trying to hide the business model, as they're never going to truly give away everything for free. Do you think "free to play" will eventually become a derogatory term that marketers avoid for that reason?
This is why I don't like F2P or B2P? Even with games like GW2, you never know what changes might be made to the cash shop and the items available in it. All it takes is a bad quarter or two financially, and a company will do most anything to increase revenue.....
How does a sub change this.
Bad quarter and they add a mount for people to buy.
In a sub game, adding cash items is a shady move.
In a F2P its a usual maintenance day.
It may be a shady move, but it is standard practice these days. That is not likely to decrease.
I can agree with that. You also have to consider though that most of those mounts are simply skins for another mount, whereas in F2P games its a 7day pass for a mount that moves at 4x normal mount speed.
That being said I have no issues with cash shops outside their gamble boxes and thier tendency to be the sole way of getting these super amazing items. Even with rent mechanics you at least know what you're paying for.
I cant' speak for older f2p games, but none of the games I have played that are or can be played f2p are any faster than mounts acquired in game, and you have them for life.
Gamble boxes do suck, I refuse to use those.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
It seems to me that most F2P devs are aware of the outrage and anger caused by nickle and dime mechanics which is why they design the games to be short lived, shallow experiences. Between the player mill (old out, new in, in rapid succession) and the cheap development, running a game into the ground and replacing it with another cheap thrill is much easier than a 300mil behemoth title.
I mean, look at Aeria games site, 22 F2P titles alone, and likely that a few of them won't make it through summer. How many sub-based devs could carry that many titles?
Anyway, I've yet to see a free to play title that encouraged long term time investment, and while they may be replacing sub models in popularity, I don't think they're intended to replace sub-games in playstyle.
I think subs still have a chance and a community but has lost a lot of steam from the corporate side. Free to play is simply a trending cash grab that is establishing its own market and will hopefully take a chunk of the 'business ethic' out of the sub based genre and set us back toward the days when a sub carried weight in the eyes of the devs.
(I'm dreaming again right?)
Does Aeria develop their own games? At least some of the big pay-to-win publishers don't actually develop games, but rather, import games from places like South Korea.
Good point, I think they're just a publisher though I think they do/did have a number of in-house games at some point.
I don't like F2P and microtransactions for simple reasons.When I sit down to paly a game I don't want to think about the real world and money and when I'm forced to it takes me out of the game and lessens my enjoyment.
So eventually when the money issue becomes to pressing I do the research on how much it's gonna cost for me to play uninterrupted and smoothly and in most cases find it too much for what I'm getting and leave.
Secondly I rpefer to play a game nto pay my way to get past the borign bits.Also I like to earn things not pay to garauantee better gear.
However I recognise I am now in a minority and that MMORPGs may be a thing of the past for me.That's fien there are other games I can play and other hobbies I can do.But I still beleive the amrket will one day swing back to my way of thinking or that a nicke game will coem along that will satisfy me.
Yeah f2p means we are going to pick your pockets later.
But recently we've seen some fairer free play models like gw2 and ps2.
So where,as once I was vehemently anti f2p, now I recognise there are a handful of games that do f2p right.
How do they pick your pockets, you have to decide to enter your credit card number, they can't do it without your permission.
It's not them picking your pockets, it's you having no self-control.
If people don't pay into the shop, the game closes. If enough people don't pay into the shop, the game closes. If barely enough people pay into the shop, the game suffers. Something tells me that F2P games aren't looking for gamers like you, but the ones more prone to impulse buying, hence the entire setup for impulse / gambling enticements.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
It is definately a balancing act. Just like p2p, if a f2p game is not fun no one will play it, no one will use the shop and the game will close. Just like p2p it needs to be fun first.
However if there is nothing in the shop that either a: looks good, or b: is usefull no one will use the shop either.
That was my issue with the TSW and FE shop. There was nothing in them that looked usefull or to me anyway, looked good. They had nothing I wanted.
edit - I'll buy the big giant bags in EQ when they come around because they are dead usefull. I may buy their mounts if they look good (actually I did buy one mount because it looked good).
I would buy a cool wolf/cat/bird/dragon pet as well if they looked good. So far their pets don't look good - same with FE and TSW. So far none of their gear or weapons look good enough for me to buy.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
It is definately a balancing act. Just like p2p, if a f2p game is not fun no one will play it, no one will use the shop and the game will close. Just like p2p it needs to be fun first.
However if there is nothing in the shop that either a: looks good, or b: is usefull no one will use the shop either.
That was my issue with the TSW and FE shop. There was nothing in them that looked usefull or to me anyone, looked good. They had nothing I wanted.
edit - I'll buy the big giant bags in EQ when they come around because they are dead usefull. I may buy their mounts if they look good (actually I did buy one mount because it looked good).
I would buy a cool wolf/cat/bird/dragon pet as well if they looked good. So far their pets don't look good - same with FE and TSW. So far none of their gear or weapons look good enough for me to buy.
EQ2 and TSW have some of the better shops I've seen in F2P. I made quite a few purchases in EQ2 just because I was lazy at the time but never felt like I was forced into a purchase for lack of options.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
You: "You can never can be better than the big spender"
Me: "You are never even be at the average because of not spending more"
Me: Are you having fun? Yes, then who cares. No; drop the game.
Me: You specifically state multi-boxing, which exists today. F2p does not change that. Therefore it is a non issue in a f2p vs p2p comparison.
Thank you! lol I don't know how else to say it. They'll be "better" than you regardless oh how many acounts or how much money they throw at the game.
I've never understood this "take what you are given" mentality.
Take what I'm given mentality? I take the challenge and strive through the game. If it's fun I'll invest my money into their cash shop. If it's not fun I don't. However, this "take what you're given" mentality fits within subscription games as well. You get what you get when you pay for it and if you don't like it there's the door and thanks for the money you paid in advance.
I get that, I was just assuming most people here were discussing general practices of the F2P market and not specific games. I think I stepped into the middle of a conversation I wasn't fully aware of, apologies.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Comments
This is why I don't like F2P or B2P? Even with games like GW2, you never know what changes might be made to the cash shop and the items available in it. All it takes is a bad quarter or two financially, and a company will do most anything to increase revenue.....
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
I haven't seen much proof that F2P has been stealing customers from sub games, if anything it seems that more people are joining the market thanks to F2P.
The popularity of F2P won't just nullify the demand for what sub games currently offer (or were supposed to be). So, until F2P can cover that gap I don't see them conquering the market outright (and I don't see them making any attempt to fill that gap).
As you stated, F2P titles will continue to become more short-term, and without commitment, until the players that are not looking for that turn elsewhere. Maybe it will be subs, maybe it will be some F2P mutant that offers something that F2P currently isn't designed for - I can't pretend to know.
How does a sub change this.
Bad quarter and they add a mount for people to buy.
In a sub game, adding cash items is a shady move.
In a F2P its a usual maintenance day.
It may be a shady move, but it is standard practice these days. That is not likely to decrease.
I can agree with that. You also have to consider though that most of those mounts are simply skins for another mount, whereas in F2P games its a 7day pass for a mount that moves at 4x normal mount speed.
That being said I have no issues with cash shops outside their gamble boxes and thier tendency to be the sole way of getting these super amazing items. Even with rent mechanics you at least know what you're paying for.
Does Aeria develop their own games? At least some of the big pay-to-win publishers don't actually develop games, but rather, import games from places like South Korea.
I cant' speak for older f2p games, but none of the games I have played that are or can be played f2p are any faster than mounts acquired in game, and you have them for life.
Gamble boxes do suck, I refuse to use those.
Good point, I think they're just a publisher though I think they do/did have a number of in-house games at some point.
I don't like F2P and microtransactions for simple reasons.When I sit down to paly a game I don't want to think about the real world and money and when I'm forced to it takes me out of the game and lessens my enjoyment.
So eventually when the money issue becomes to pressing I do the research on how much it's gonna cost for me to play uninterrupted and smoothly and in most cases find it too much for what I'm getting and leave.
Secondly I rpefer to play a game nto pay my way to get past the borign bits.Also I like to earn things not pay to garauantee better gear.
However I recognise I am now in a minority and that MMORPGs may be a thing of the past for me.That's fien there are other games I can play and other hobbies I can do.But I still beleive the amrket will one day swing back to my way of thinking or that a nicke game will coem along that will satisfy me.
If people don't pay into the shop, the game closes. If enough people don't pay into the shop, the game closes. If barely enough people pay into the shop, the game suffers. Something tells me that F2P games aren't looking for gamers like you, but the ones more prone to impulse buying, hence the entire setup for impulse / gambling enticements.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
It is definately a balancing act. Just like p2p, if a f2p game is not fun no one will play it, no one will use the shop and the game will close. Just like p2p it needs to be fun first.
However if there is nothing in the shop that either a: looks good, or b: is usefull no one will use the shop either.
That was my issue with the TSW and FE shop. There was nothing in them that looked usefull or to me anyway, looked good. They had nothing I wanted.
edit - I'll buy the big giant bags in EQ when they come around because they are dead usefull. I may buy their mounts if they look good (actually I did buy one mount because it looked good).
I would buy a cool wolf/cat/bird/dragon pet as well if they looked good. So far their pets don't look good - same with FE and TSW. So far none of their gear or weapons look good enough for me to buy.
I've never understood this "take what you are given" mentality.
It isn't a take what you are given. They are supplying a product, I have no way to force them to develop what I want.
My choices are play or don't. Thats it nothing more. If I don't like it, I won't take it. I'll find someone that is offereing what I want.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
EQ2 and TSW have some of the better shops I've seen in F2P. I made quite a few purchases in EQ2 just because I was lazy at the time but never felt like I was forced into a purchase for lack of options.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
I see. I'm thinking more in the context of the F2P market and not specific products, belay my last.
I get that, I was just assuming most people here were discussing general practices of the F2P market and not specific games. I think I stepped into the middle of a conversation I wasn't fully aware of, apologies.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Probably because I started by using a non-F2P example to make a different point in a F2P thread.
You just can'T get away from all these F2P threads.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.