I am so tired of gaming companies thinking they can make games that require your continual purchase of items, unlocks, skills, etc... to be succesful or even to just enjoy it. Let me BUY the game and enjoy it freely. Sure, item malls may be a great way to fund continual development. Fine, give me cosmetics to buy or 10% boosts, not double!! IMO best item mall is Defiance, it is definately not B2W (Buy To Win).
If we players continue to support this method of B2W, we will continue to see more dissapointing games. This is why I am boycotting Neverwinter by not even creating an account. I don't want to even be a POTENTIAL dollar in their eyes. This is why I have not returned to SWTOR in months. And SWTOR is a game which disgusts me on an even deeper lvl. Not only is their a subscription, but then you are encouraged to spend spend spend in the item mall for packs to get items that idiot players price in the millions (credits). If I am a subscriber, why should I be buying item mall items? Is $15 dollars a month no longer enough for access to obtain everythihng in the game? Because I remember when $8 dollars a month was.
I am gladly willing to spend almost $200 a year (excluding any expansions) on a video game, how is that enough for you stingy publishers? And comment as you will, but don't try to answer my final questions. It simply cannot be resonably answered.
Sinds when you have items malls in games 2005?
Ive not spent one dime in all these years and never will so your late to come to conclusion to boycot it lol.
Will it help no not realy there more games these days with cashshops then ever before it alinate me more and more from mmo's but seems popular by 99% of all other players.
So if you stick to boycot like me then your playing soon only solo games or 100% free cashshop games.
Has anyone even found hard evidence that this is B2W? I have seen these threads come up before for Neverwinter but I still havn't seen anything more then speculation? I understand the prices are higher then people want, but that is not enough of a case to call it B2W.
Anyone in game or have been playing in game that can comment further on this?
its not B2W. Win against what seriously???
This pay to win topic pops up in every b2p,f2p games. Even Gw2. These ppl are simply LOSERS who cant pay shit and think the game companies are their parents.
After GW2 had a Halloween Sale on cosmetics for weapons etc, I ponied up. I had previously bought the bags and a few other minor items. I didn't mind, as my theory was, I normally pay $15/month and I will spend the same here.
Then came the Halloween sale of keys for chests. $50 later I got nothing but garbage. I uninstalled and vowed not to play and games with an item mall. Been 6 months now and plan on staying with it. I am also an older MMO player, and much prefer the old subscription model, where it is the same for everyone, not the favouring people who spend the most.
After GW2 had a Halloween Sale on cosmetics for weapons etc, I ponied up. I had previously bought the bags and a few other minor items. I didn't mind, as my theory was, I normally pay $15/month and I will spend the same here.
Then came the Halloween sale of keys for chests. $50 later I got nothing but garbage. I uninstalled and vowed not to play and games with an item mall. Been 6 months now and plan on staying with it. I am also an older MMO player, and much prefer the old subscription model, where it is the same for everyone, not the favouring people who spend the most.
Last i played GW2 was couple months ago when they keep pushing you to buy stuff in cashshop.
Now GW2 is cashshop/dungeon grind game and is not game i thought it would be during beta and launch.
Still got my collectors edition with CHARR statue getting dust spent 150 euros on game i quit after few months lol.
Has anyone even found hard evidence that this is B2W? I have seen these threads come up before for Neverwinter but I still havn't seen anything more then speculation? I understand the prices are higher then people want, but that is not enough of a case to call it B2W.
Anyone in game or have been playing in game that can comment further on this?
its not B2W. Win against what seriously???
This pay to win topic pops up in every b2p,f2p games. Even Gw2. These ppl are simply LOSERS who cant pay shit and think the game companies are their parents.
I can buy more then avarage i got all my games still in boxes with speciall editions but i wont buy in cashshops period if its cosmetic or items that can win.
Btw in GW2 many things you can buy maybe dont win pvp matches but it influence the trade ALOT and game community if you dont see this thats your loss, but GW2 became a cashshop game.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
I am so tired of gaming companies thinking they can make games that require your continual purchase of items, unlocks, skills, etc... to be succesful or even to just enjoy it. Let me BUY the game and enjoy it freely. Sure, item malls may be a great way to fund continual development. Fine, give me cosmetics to buy or 10% boosts, not double!! IMO best item mall is Defiance, it is definately not B2W (Buy To Win).
If we players continue to support this method of B2W, we will continue to see more dissapointing games. This is why I am boycotting Neverwinter by not even creating an account. I don't want to even be a POTENTIAL dollar in their eyes. This is why I have not returned to SWTOR in months. And SWTOR is a game which disgusts me on an even deeper lvl. Not only is their a subscription, but then you are encouraged to spend spend spend in the item mall for packs to get items that idiot players price in the millions (credits). If I am a subscriber, why should I be buying item mall items? Is $15 dollars a month no longer enough for access to obtain everythihng in the game? Because I remember when $8 dollars a month was.
I am gladly willing to spend almost $200 a year (excluding any expansions) on a video game, how is that enough for you stingy publishers? And comment as you will, but don't try to answer my final questions. It simply cannot be resonably answered.
I'm boycotting Neverwinter too, These queues are too damn long (however the game is enjoyable, I'll wait)!
You must not know how popular this game is right now, let me just tell you. I logged in today with a queue of ~12,000. There has never been a game on its release that I've played with a queue that massive and you know what. I don't think these players really care that much about the tiny things that are being sold for 5-10 dollars on the cash shop. I know I don't care because those items on the cash shop don't hurt my gaming experience. After all Neverwinter is a PvE based game!
Its LAUNCH day, while not official its still a launch technically just not officially stated. Every game has this, wait a month n then see how things are. Guarantee that people will be screaming for server merges since I don't see any longevity in the game, especially with ESO and Wildstar coming out at the end of the year that look way more promising.
Neverwinter is a low budget IP cash grab MMO, just like Star Trek Online is.
Cryptic's model of game design is to make an MMO as cheaply as possible, milk the playerbase as much as they can, and then move on to their next cash cow leaving their player base to rot in their old games (see: Champions Online).
I'm sorry to be blunt but the only way to stop PWE's / Cryptic's greed is for Neverwinter to flop before they can make their money back and buy a new IP cash cow with it.
For sake of future MMO's being truly free and not freeium, Neverwinter has to die.
Originally posted by Sulaa I've stopped playing any mmorpg with item mall, whcih kinda meant I've stopped playing any mmoprg at all. It's rather interesting to watch from side-lines in between RL and playing other genres and types of games.
Go back to wow, thats still your best option... The last fully subscription mmo left....
Guess all these fluff ass pets and mounts only make people angry in games they don't like.
Its LAUNCH day, while not official its still a launch technically just not officially stated. Every game has this, wait a month n then see how things are. Guarantee that people will be screaming for server merges since I don't see any longevity in the game, especially with ESO and Wildstar coming out at the end of the year that look way more promising.
Neverwinter will be a very niche game.
That i don't care. Do they have some fun content? It is a F2P game, right? It would be great if i can have a few free fun weeks.
some of us prefer to immmerse ourselve in MMOs rather then hope around, to be honest if i wanted to do that id would just stick to SP games or CO-OP games with friends since those normally are made better anyway for those aspects.
And some of us don't .. and play MMOs like SP and co-op games.
If you re-read my statement and then re-read yours you will understand that basically is what I am saying. There are many F2P mmo players that pay mutliple times the money on the Mall than they ever would in a subscription based game.
Many? More like a minority. It is well known that a) most players don't pay, and b) a very small percentage pays through the roof.
So what is the problem? A few whales is subsidizing most other's free fun.
My goal in NW is to see how far I can get for free. That's it. If I get a couple of hours in because whales are paying for the servers, good for them. I don't PvP so it isn't P2W...
When an item allows you to win a battle that would have been lost without buying something in the cash shop, it's buy / pay 2 win.
Any games that sell power are pay 2 win. It's irrelevant if it's PVE or PVP.
That is indeed a nice way to put across a "Pay 2 Win" model.
Most F2Ps are "Pay To Win" from the above logic.
Cheers Sourajit Nandi
" Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't play this or that. That's nonsense. Make up your mind,and you'll never whine or repent about gaming hours anymore, then have a go at every Game. Open up the Internet, join in all the Mmorpgs you can. Go make the Guild. But never, never let them persuade you that things are too difficult or impossible. "
Originally posted by Ikeda My goal in NW is to see how far I can get for free. That's it. If I get a couple of hours in because whales are paying for the servers, good for them. I don't PvP so it isn't P2W...
Exactly. I do that for every F2P games and so far, i find most of them give away a lot for free.
I have been played STO for more than a year (on and off) and i am no where close to finishing the free story missions. The "problem", if any, is that i don't have enough time to consume all the fun free content.
If you re-read my statement and then re-read yours you will understand that basically is what I am saying. There are many F2P mmo players that pay mutliple times the money on the Mall than they ever would in a subscription based game.
Many? More like a minority. It is well known that a) most players don't pay, and b) a very small percentage pays through the roof.
So what is the problem? A few whales is subsidizing most other's free fun.
Relying on the vulnerable and gullible to fund my fun? No thanks, I would rather just pay for what I use. Seeing these people targetted with in game gambling hooks and other manipulative techniques makes me feel pretty bad tbh.
Even the casual use of 'whales' is actually quite dehumanising... designed to gloss over what is actually happening. Traditional F2P really is such a nasty soulless revenue model that adds nothing to games themeselves.
Originally posted by Ikeda My goal in NW is to see how far I can get for free. That's it. If I get a couple of hours in because whales are paying for the servers, good for them. I don't PvP so it isn't P2W...
Exactly. I do that for every F2P games and so far, i find most of them give away a lot for free.
I have been played STO for more than a year (on and off) and i am no where close to finishing the free story missions. The "problem", if any, is that i don't have enough time to consume all the fun free content.
So, are you advocating that more people should do this? Do you see the inherent flaw in that recommendation? The whole idea that makes this business model successful is that someone has to actually pay something for these games right? Do you ever feel compelled to chip in a little, or are you waiting for a game that you think deserves it?
I always feel compelled to pay something for a game that gives me some enjoyment.
After GW2 had a Halloween Sale on cosmetics for weapons etc, I ponied up. I had previously bought the bags and a few other minor items. I didn't mind, as my theory was, I normally pay $15/month and I will spend the same here.
Then came the Halloween sale of keys for chests. $50 later I got nothing but garbage. I uninstalled and vowed not to play and games with an item mall. Been 6 months now and plan on staying with it. I am also an older MMO player, and much prefer the old subscription model, where it is the same for everyone, not the favouring people who spend the most.
Last i played GW2 was couple months ago when they keep pushing you to buy stuff in cashshop.
Now GW2 is cashshop/dungeon grind game and is not game i thought it would be during beta and launch.
Still got my collectors edition with CHARR statue getting dust spent 150 euros on game i quit after few months lol.
Originally posted by Ikeda My goal in NW is to see how far I can get for free. That's it. If I get a couple of hours in because whales are paying for the servers, good for them. I don't PvP so it isn't P2W...
Exactly. I do that for every F2P games and so far, i find most of them give away a lot for free.
I have been played STO for more than a year (on and off) and i am no where close to finishing the free story missions. The "problem", if any, is that i don't have enough time to consume all the fun free content.
So, are you advocating that more people should do this? Do you see the inherent flaw in that recommendation? The whole idea that makes this business model successful is that someone has to actually pay something for these games right? Do you ever feel compelled to chip in a little, or are you waiting for a game that you think deserves it?
I always feel compelled to pay something for a game that gives me some enjoyment.
I am not compelled to pay anything. There are already many people who are doing that .. i don't need to advocate anything. I am just stating how i play.
And the great thing is ... there are whales who will subdizie the games. I highly doubt they will change their behavior even if they read this post.
And for some unforshaken reason that they do, and if all these games go down in flames .. i will just find something else to do.
Given that in March 2013, the F2P MMO market made almost $200M just in the US, i doubt i will run out of F2P games to play anytime soon.
Is it just me, or do we just call anything with an item shop P2W nowadays?
I would actually challenge someone to find a recent F2P game that actually REQUIRES you to purchase something from the item shop in order to complete the game. I mean SWTOR is the first that comes to mind for me with Section-X pass, but any "Account Authorization" items you can buy in the cash shop are also available from the auction house for in-game cash, so that sort of negates it imo. I'm not aware of others that actually still require you to buy something, other than expansions, in order to win the game.
If we want to boycott that list, great, but I think that P2W is becoming synonymous with P2Advance Faster Than Me. Yeah, that happens. Otherwise why would anyone actually pay real money for something? If you believe that cosmetics will support the ongoing development of games then send me 10 bux because I've got a shiney picture of a Unicorn and a Rainbow Fart that can be yours exclusively.
Is it just me, or do we just call anything with an item shop P2W nowadays?
I would actually challenge someone to find a recent F2P game that actually REQUIRES you to purchase something from the item shop in order to complete the game. I mean SWTOR is the first that comes to mind for me with Section-X pass, but any "Account Authorization" items you can buy in the cash shop are also available from the auction house for in-game cash, so that sort of negates it imo. I'm not aware of others that actually still require you to buy something, other than expansions, in order to win the game.
If we want to boycott that list, great, but I think that P2W is becoming synonymous with P2Advance Faster Than Me. Yeah, that happens. Otherwise why would anyone actually pay real money for something? If you believe that cosmetics will support the ongoing development of games then send me 10 bux because I've got a shiney picture of a Unicorn and a Rainbow Fart that can be yours exclusively.
No such MMO exists, but thats because P2W has nothing to do with "completing the game." The fact you use such a phrase makes me wonder if you realise that a MMO is not a solo rpg. You cannot complete a MMO. So you are not going to find anything in a cash shop needed to complete any MMO out there.
P2W is about getting there before the next guy. In its worse form it is about giving players a PvP advantage over another player. Being of a higher level does give an advantage in PvP, so getting to top level more quickly by buying cash shop items is P2W. Even if you MMO features PvP which equalises levels, you still get to use extra powers at top level the other guy does not have.
The boundary of what is acceptable in a cash shop is being ever pushed back and as everyone should know, what you see being sold when a MMO launches is not the only items you will see being sold in a few months time.
Cash shops set up MMO's to be increasingly P2W as time passes after launch. They always have and I see no way that can ever change.
I am so tired of gaming companies thinking they can make games that require your continual purchase of items, unlocks, skills, etc... to be succesful or even to just enjoy it. Let me BUY the game and enjoy it freely. Sure, item malls may be a great way to fund continual development. Fine, give me cosmetics to buy or 10% boosts, not double!! IMO best item mall is Defiance, it is definately not B2W (Buy To Win).
If we players continue to support this method of B2W, we will continue to see more dissapointing games. This is why I am boycotting Neverwinter by not even creating an account. I don't want to even be a POTENTIAL dollar in their eyes. This is why I have not returned to SWTOR in months. And SWTOR is a game which disgusts me on an even deeper lvl. Not only is their a subscription, but then you are encouraged to spend spend spend in the item mall for packs to get items that idiot players price in the millions (credits). If I am a subscriber, why should I be buying item mall items? Is $15 dollars a month no longer enough for access to obtain everythihng in the game? Because I remember when $8 dollars a month was.
I am gladly willing to spend almost $200 a year (excluding any expansions) on a video game, how is that enough for you stingy publishers? And comment as you will, but don't try to answer my final questions. It simply cannot be resonably answered.
From a business perspective it's a good thing. It's a commerical "backlash" against freeloaders and those who push for F2P. I do support what Neverwinter is doing.
I will never support freeloaders, no more subsidized gaming. My Blog
It is actually good for us consumers if there are different games with different models.
What is bad for us is the fact that so many P2P games have added itemshops, not that F2P games try to get in some cash.
You can choose to play a game with monthly fees and no itemshop instead, or you can play a B2P game with cosmetic itemshop like GW2.
But all companies needs to get in money. It is more worrying that so few P2P games do well than that a certain game releases as F2P. Just support a game with the model you prefer.
Is it just me, or do we just call anything with an item shop P2W nowadays?
I would actually challenge someone to find a recent F2P game that actually REQUIRES you to purchase something from the item shop in order to complete the game. I mean SWTOR is the first that comes to mind for me with Section-X pass, but any "Account Authorization" items you can buy in the cash shop are also available from the auction house for in-game cash, so that sort of negates it imo. I'm not aware of others that actually still require you to buy something, other than expansions, in order to win the game.
If we want to boycott that list, great, but I think that P2W is becoming synonymous with P2Advance Faster Than Me. Yeah, that happens. Otherwise why would anyone actually pay real money for something? If you believe that cosmetics will support the ongoing development of games then send me 10 bux because I've got a shiney picture of a Unicorn and a Rainbow Fart that can be yours exclusively.
No such MMO exists, but thats because P2W has nothing to do with "completing the game." The fact you use such a phrase makes me wonder if you realise that a MMO is not a solo rpg. You cannot complete a MMO. So you are not going to find anything in a cash shop needed to complete any MMO out there.
P2W is about getting there before the next guy. In its worse form it is about giving players a PvP advantage over another player. Being of a higher level does give an advantage in PvP, so getting to top level more quickly by buying cash shop items is P2W. Even if you MMO features PvP which equalises levels, you still get to use extra powers at top level the other guy does not have.
The boundary of what is acceptable in a cash shop is being ever pushed back and as everyone should know, what you see being sold when a MMO launches is not the only items you will see being sold in a few months time.
Cash shops set up MMO's to be increasingly P2W as time passes after launch. They always have and I see no way that can ever change.
I can agree with you that it'll never change. I would disagree that you can never "complete the game". Every game has a distinct "end". They actually call it "end-game content". Actually MMOs provide multiple end points, that's what keeps people engaged. If there were never a goal of some sort, then you wouldn't play. For PvP there are Seasons, for PvE there are final bosses. Of course that "bar" is ever-changing because of content updates, but each content update does provide a distinct end of finale. They may not provide the same closure as single-player games, since you can replay all of the content, but I would disagree that it's not there.
However, the reality is that, first of all, someone who is invested in the game enough to invest, say, $800 to be the first person to reach level cap a la Neverwinter, is probably going to be there first anyway because even with their investment they have invested significant (obsessively crazy) amounts of time to get there even with their investment.
As far as PvP advantage goes, again, if someone is invested enough in a game to care about endgame content or endgame PvP then why wouldn't you support it by paying for in-game items? 9 times out of 10 any advantage gained by cash shop items is negated by poor gameplay anyway. For the other 10%?
P2W items have always been available, even in subs. In subs they are available for in-game cash, but if you don't have the cash to buy them then you're in the same situation. Lots of items require reputation or other pre-requisites in order to purchase them from a vendor, even. Again, that's no different than a cash shop. Think about the time invested in a game, you own time investment. If you've spent 15 hours on a rep grind so you are able to buy a PvP potion or a piece of gear, whatever. Even if you work at McDonald's that time is worth $150. Not to mention whatever time investment you've already put into the game itself. So to bitch and whine about having to spend $5 or $10 on a game that you've played for 100+ hours is retarded.
Oh! Oh yeah, and before there were cash shops there were gold farmers and power leveling services which, come to think of it, are probably more efficient and cost effective solutions anyway. So has it ever actually been a level playing field? Apart from sitting at a table across from one another, LAN Party style, connected to the same router, with the exact same computer, has there ever been a level playing field?
Comments
Sinds when you have items malls in games 2005?
Ive not spent one dime in all these years and never will so your late to come to conclusion to boycot it lol.
Will it help no not realy there more games these days with cashshops then ever before it alinate me more and more from mmo's but seems popular by 99% of all other players.
So if you stick to boycot like me then your playing soon only solo games or 100% free cashshop games.
its not B2W. Win against what seriously???
This pay to win topic pops up in every b2p,f2p games. Even Gw2. These ppl are simply LOSERS who cant pay shit and think the game companies are their parents.
After GW2 had a Halloween Sale on cosmetics for weapons etc, I ponied up. I had previously bought the bags and a few other minor items. I didn't mind, as my theory was, I normally pay $15/month and I will spend the same here.
Then came the Halloween sale of keys for chests. $50 later I got nothing but garbage. I uninstalled and vowed not to play and games with an item mall. Been 6 months now and plan on staying with it. I am also an older MMO player, and much prefer the old subscription model, where it is the same for everyone, not the favouring people who spend the most.
Last i played GW2 was couple months ago when they keep pushing you to buy stuff in cashshop.
Now GW2 is cashshop/dungeon grind game and is not game i thought it would be during beta and launch.
Still got my collectors edition with CHARR statue getting dust spent 150 euros on game i quit after few months lol.
I can buy more then avarage i got all my games still in boxes with speciall editions but i wont buy in cashshops period if its cosmetic or items that can win.
Btw in GW2 many things you can buy maybe dont win pvp matches but it influence the trade ALOT and game community if you dont see this thats your loss, but GW2 became a cashshop game.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Its LAUNCH day, while not official its still a launch technically just not officially stated. Every game has this, wait a month n then see how things are. Guarantee that people will be screaming for server merges since I don't see any longevity in the game, especially with ESO and Wildstar coming out at the end of the year that look way more promising.
Neverwinter will be a very niche game.
I agree with the OP.
Neverwinter is a low budget IP cash grab MMO, just like Star Trek Online is.
Cryptic's model of game design is to make an MMO as cheaply as possible, milk the playerbase as much as they can, and then move on to their next cash cow leaving their player base to rot in their old games (see: Champions Online).
I'm sorry to be blunt but the only way to stop PWE's / Cryptic's greed is for Neverwinter to flop before they can make their money back and buy a new IP cash cow with it.
For sake of future MMO's being truly free and not freeium, Neverwinter has to die.
Perfect World didn't exactly inspire me either, have to say.
Guess all these fluff ass pets and mounts only make people angry in games they don't like.
http://us.blizzard.com/store/browse.xml?f=c:5
Rift is less microtranscription then WoW.
That i don't care. Do they have some fun content? It is a F2P game, right? It would be great if i can have a few free fun weeks.
And some of us don't .. and play MMOs like SP and co-op games.
What is your point?
Many? More like a minority. It is well known that a) most players don't pay, and b) a very small percentage pays through the roof.
So what is the problem? A few whales is subsidizing most other's free fun.
That is indeed a nice way to put across a "Pay 2 Win" model.
Most F2Ps are "Pay To Win" from the above logic.
Cheers
Sourajit Nandi
" Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't play this or that. That's nonsense. Make up your mind,and you'll never whine or repent about gaming hours anymore, then have a go at every Game. Open up the Internet, join in all the Mmorpgs you can. Go make the Guild. But never, never let them persuade you that things are too difficult or impossible. "
Once An Addict Always An Addict .
Exactly. I do that for every F2P games and so far, i find most of them give away a lot for free.
I have been played STO for more than a year (on and off) and i am no where close to finishing the free story missions. The "problem", if any, is that i don't have enough time to consume all the fun free content.
Relying on the vulnerable and gullible to fund my fun? No thanks, I would rather just pay for what I use. Seeing these people targetted with in game gambling hooks and other manipulative techniques makes me feel pretty bad tbh.
Even the casual use of 'whales' is actually quite dehumanising... designed to gloss over what is actually happening. Traditional F2P really is such a nasty soulless revenue model that adds nothing to games themeselves.
So, are you advocating that more people should do this? Do you see the inherent flaw in that recommendation? The whole idea that makes this business model successful is that someone has to actually pay something for these games right? Do you ever feel compelled to chip in a little, or are you waiting for a game that you think deserves it?
I always feel compelled to pay something for a game that gives me some enjoyment.
This is a story with a moral. Do not pre-order.
I am not compelled to pay anything. There are already many people who are doing that .. i don't need to advocate anything. I am just stating how i play.
And the great thing is ... there are whales who will subdizie the games. I highly doubt they will change their behavior even if they read this post.
And for some unforshaken reason that they do, and if all these games go down in flames .. i will just find something else to do.
Given that in March 2013, the F2P MMO market made almost $200M just in the US, i doubt i will run out of F2P games to play anytime soon.
Is it just me, or do we just call anything with an item shop P2W nowadays?
I would actually challenge someone to find a recent F2P game that actually REQUIRES you to purchase something from the item shop in order to complete the game. I mean SWTOR is the first that comes to mind for me with Section-X pass, but any "Account Authorization" items you can buy in the cash shop are also available from the auction house for in-game cash, so that sort of negates it imo. I'm not aware of others that actually still require you to buy something, other than expansions, in order to win the game.
If we want to boycott that list, great, but I think that P2W is becoming synonymous with P2Advance Faster Than Me. Yeah, that happens. Otherwise why would anyone actually pay real money for something? If you believe that cosmetics will support the ongoing development of games then send me 10 bux because I've got a shiney picture of a Unicorn and a Rainbow Fart that can be yours exclusively.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
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Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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No such MMO exists, but thats because P2W has nothing to do with "completing the game." The fact you use such a phrase makes me wonder if you realise that a MMO is not a solo rpg. You cannot complete a MMO. So you are not going to find anything in a cash shop needed to complete any MMO out there.
P2W is about getting there before the next guy. In its worse form it is about giving players a PvP advantage over another player. Being of a higher level does give an advantage in PvP, so getting to top level more quickly by buying cash shop items is P2W. Even if you MMO features PvP which equalises levels, you still get to use extra powers at top level the other guy does not have.
The boundary of what is acceptable in a cash shop is being ever pushed back and as everyone should know, what you see being sold when a MMO launches is not the only items you will see being sold in a few months time.
Cash shops set up MMO's to be increasingly P2W as time passes after launch. They always have and I see no way that can ever change.
From a business perspective it's a good thing. It's a commerical "backlash" against freeloaders and those who push for F2P. I do support what Neverwinter is doing.
I will never support freeloaders, no more subsidized gaming.
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It is actually good for us consumers if there are different games with different models.
What is bad for us is the fact that so many P2P games have added itemshops, not that F2P games try to get in some cash.
You can choose to play a game with monthly fees and no itemshop instead, or you can play a B2P game with cosmetic itemshop like GW2.
But all companies needs to get in money. It is more worrying that so few P2P games do well than that a certain game releases as F2P. Just support a game with the model you prefer.
I can agree with you that it'll never change. I would disagree that you can never "complete the game". Every game has a distinct "end". They actually call it "end-game content". Actually MMOs provide multiple end points, that's what keeps people engaged. If there were never a goal of some sort, then you wouldn't play. For PvP there are Seasons, for PvE there are final bosses. Of course that "bar" is ever-changing because of content updates, but each content update does provide a distinct end of finale. They may not provide the same closure as single-player games, since you can replay all of the content, but I would disagree that it's not there.
However, the reality is that, first of all, someone who is invested in the game enough to invest, say, $800 to be the first person to reach level cap a la Neverwinter, is probably going to be there first anyway because even with their investment they have invested significant (obsessively crazy) amounts of time to get there even with their investment.
As far as PvP advantage goes, again, if someone is invested enough in a game to care about endgame content or endgame PvP then why wouldn't you support it by paying for in-game items? 9 times out of 10 any advantage gained by cash shop items is negated by poor gameplay anyway. For the other 10%?
P2W items have always been available, even in subs. In subs they are available for in-game cash, but if you don't have the cash to buy them then you're in the same situation. Lots of items require reputation or other pre-requisites in order to purchase them from a vendor, even. Again, that's no different than a cash shop. Think about the time invested in a game, you own time investment. If you've spent 15 hours on a rep grind so you are able to buy a PvP potion or a piece of gear, whatever. Even if you work at McDonald's that time is worth $150. Not to mention whatever time investment you've already put into the game itself. So to bitch and whine about having to spend $5 or $10 on a game that you've played for 100+ hours is retarded.
Oh! Oh yeah, and before there were cash shops there were gold farmers and power leveling services which, come to think of it, are probably more efficient and cost effective solutions anyway. So has it ever actually been a level playing field? Apart from sitting at a table across from one another, LAN Party style, connected to the same router, with the exact same computer, has there ever been a level playing field?
Crazkanuk
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