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Is All PVP Still Restricted To Cyrodiil? If It Is Im Not Buying This Game

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  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,546Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by HighMarshal

    Has any full open world PvP games ever survived? Most crash and burn after release, while the rest slowly fade into........

    Oblivion!

    WoW

  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,836Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Saxonblade
    Originally posted by baphamet   Originally posted by Saxonblade Originally posted by superconducting Open world PVP sounds good on paper but in practice is a bad idea. There are a whole host of problems associated with it: - PVP would be way too scattered and less focused. Small groups or individual players would be haphazardly fighting rather than having larger-scale battles between armies. - People would not easily know where to go to join up with their groups. - PVE content (which is most of the game) would not be safe to do. You could never feel safe questing. - It would be a lore-breaker (at least initially before 50+) if factions are not restricted to the races the comprise them.   I remember when runescape decided to open up the whole world to PVP, instead of just limiting it to the wilderness. The amount of backlash they received was mind-numbing. PvP was ruined so much that they eventually they restored the wilderness to the way it was before.
    Tell the people at blizz that, it was in fact the removal of meaningful OW PVP that cost blizz many subs. OW PvP in Vanilla WoW was some of the best OW PvP in any game.
      wow got more popular after bg's were introduced in vanilla wow and gained more subs actually. group finder and meeting stones is what killed wow's open pvp. i love me some open pvp but i 100% understand why they have pve exclusive zones in a ES mmo. if there was open pvp that would turn off a lot of fans. open ffa pvp is not for a lot of people, especially this games target audience. wows target audience at the time of release was the "bnet kiddies" who were all about pvp.
    Where did I say BGs killed Wow, I said the removal of meaningful OW PvP, which was cross server BGs etc

    whats the difference between bg's and cross server bg's? the addition of cross server Bg's had literally no impact on open world pvp except for the fact the queue times were faster.

    when bg's were first introduced it did kill the Tarren Mill pvp, i will give you that.

    but open pvp was still alive and well until people could queue for dungeons and port to meeting stones, rather than having to travel there.

    people then just sat in a safe zone and waited for queues.

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,546Member Uncommon
    Why are people hating on open world pvp and saying it wont work when WoW the most popular mmo had it from the start where it has some of the most populated PvP servers such as illidan.  The mmo crowd has turned into a bunch of wimps with their restricted safe pvp lol.  PvP is so much more immersive and fun when its sudden in the middle of PvEing.  And its not like it was free for fall.  I seriously dont understand why they cant have the cyrodil pvp with open world pvp in the faction lands and exploration.
  • Total_HuntTotal_Hunt ChichesterPosts: 65Member
    Originally posted by Imperator101

    I enjoy the PVE aspect of MMO's but I like PVP a lot more. Most of my PVE needs are satisfied playing Elder Scrolls Oblivion/Skyrim along with Skyrim mods but I do still play PVE in MMO's. The major problem with this game is that all PVP is going to be restricted to Cyrodiil, I enjoy playing PVP in a wide variety of enviornments and constantly playing in Grasslands/Some snow areas near Bruma is not enough for me. You are supposed to be at war here, I know the battle is for the throne of the Empire that means you need to control Cyrodiil, the heartland and most powerful region in Tamriel. Still, you should beable to sack enemy cities and have big pvp battles in enemy regions.

    I know they are balancing everyone for PVP in Cyrodiil, while I like that, it doesn't do much for diversity and it would all come down to skill instead of the gear you worked hard for to get. There should be pvp in the rest of the game world with no balancing additions that are in Cyrodiils pvp. You should beable to sack an enemy city and if you take their city you get to loot it and everyone who attacked should get a lot of gold / items you find around the city. After a city is secured the home faction would have the ability to take it back. 

     

    I know this game is running on the Mega Server technology, there should be a PVE and PVP shard, the PVE shard would have all PVP limited to Cyrodiil while the PVP shard would have open world pvp throughout the entire world. 

    So are they going to have true open world pvp in this game or not? Limitiing all PVP to Cyrodiil is just gonna feel like Guild Wars 2, huge giant maps for PVP but no real open pvp throughout the rest of the world. I hate it when MMO's divide where you can and can't pvp. 

    That's a shame. We'll miss you.

     

    Personally I don't give a sh*t about PvP, and why an Elder Scrolls game would be PvP focused I have no idea.

     

    It's a SP PvE series, let's turn it into a multiplayer PvP zergfest. Good idea.

  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member
    Originally posted by tkreep
    Why are people hating on open world pvp and saying it wont work when WoW the most popular mmo had it from the start where it has some of the most populated PvP servers such as illidan.  The mmo crowd has turned into a bunch of wimps with their restricted safe pvp lol.  PvP is so much more immersive and fun when its sudden in the middle of PvEing.  And its not like it was free for fall.  I seriously dont understand why they cant have the cyrodil pvp with open world pvp in the faction lands and exploration.

    I'd guess WoW had the best timing.

    Rift operates the same way right?

    Cause I believe out of all the themeparks that have ow pvp the only one that can be used as an example would be...WoW and/or maybe Rift possibly. Maybe I'm missing an MMORPG though.

    I think it'd be cool if in ESO, you can hit other factions in their own faction zone though rather than just cyrodill.

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • FusionFusion VaasaPosts: 1,391Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Saxonblade
    Originally posted by superconducting

    Open world PVP sounds good on paper but in practice is a bad idea. There are a whole host of problems associated with it:

    - PVP would be way too scattered and less focused. Small groups or individual players would be haphazardly fighting rather than having larger-scale battles between armies.

    - People would not easily know where to go to join up with their groups.

    - PVE content (which is most of the game) would not be safe to do. You could never feel safe questing.

    - It would be a lore-breaker (at least initially before 50+) if factions are not restricted to the races the comprise them.

     

    I remember when runescape decided to open up the whole world to PVP, instead of just limiting it to the wilderness. The amount of backlash they received was mind-numbing. PvP was ruined so much that they eventually they restored the wilderness to the way it was before.

    Tell the people at blizz that, it was in fact the removal of meaningful OW PVP that cost blizz many subs. OW PvP in Vanilla WoW was some of the best OW PvP in any game.

    Indeed, back when community still meant something in MMORPGs. Back when a random guild, group or such would form a large raiding party consisting of a variety of people (not just the said group/guild) just for owPVP to raid an enemy capital, take over a certain area of the map and whatnot.

    Back when community and 'camraderie' was more than just a forced feature to get the next 'rank', 'pvp-level' or 'pvp-token' for the fancy item.

    My fondest pvp memories are indeed from WoW pre-battlegrounds (tarren mill raids, xroads raids and city raids like undercity, orgrimmar and the likes with totally randomized levels of participants and not just capped players)

     

    On topic, I think i heard or read somewhere that you can enter other 'faction' capitals but will be attacked upon by their guards and that faction players can attack you, but you can't attack them (unless attacked upon).

    Pretty much like wow starter zones in vanilla WoW (you would be safe as long as you didn't attack the red named guy)

    Currently playing: -

    Waiting for: Class4.

    Dead and Buried: ESO, NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

  • Total_HuntTotal_Hunt ChichesterPosts: 65Member

    Anyone considered that the average TES player won't enjoy being ganked and teabagged all the time by you 'l33t' MMO PvPers while they're trying to explore.

     

    This isn't Darkfall

  • keithiankeithian Los Angeles, CAPosts: 3,042Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Codeme
    Originally posted by stragen001
    OP - In answer to your unwritten question - No, you wont be able to Gank teh Newbs

    also have to add this +++

    agreed lol

    There Is Always Hope!

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,447Member Uncommon
    All PvP will be focused in Cyrodiil but its more then just a battleground. It will have PvE there as well. With open world dungeons you can fight over. Something the devs are calling a Mega dungeon much like Darkness falls from DAoC. If you are a PvPer at heart this will have it all but ganking newbs. IMO if thats what you are looking for, your not a real PvPer.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,447Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by superconducting

    Open world PVP sounds good on paper but in practice is a bad idea.

    My guess is that you either have never played an open world pvp game or in the end it wasn't for you.

    Lineage 2 has open world pvp and not only was pvp happening all around the sieges were still done. Of course, they were at specific times of the week.

    you join up for groups where people are announcing battles. If you are part of a guild they will tell you where to go.

    It's true you would never feel safe questing. some people like this and it's their reason to play open world pvp. Or reason to pve in a group of people.

    It would not be a lore breaker.

    My advice would be to play an open world pvp game to get a better idea how they run.

    Lineage 2 was the best open world PvP game I played. The model ESO is using will give you the best of both worlds. Cyrodiil will have PvE quests with the risk of PvP but not at the cost of high level player picking on low level chars, everyone will be leveled up and attacking a level 10 char has a fighting chance. The more I read about Cyrodiil the more I get excited. I may live there when my wife is not playing. 


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • TheHavokTheHavok San Jose, CAPosts: 2,398Member Uncommon

    Why rule out a whole game that you could very well end up really liking just because one feature isn't to your liking on paper? Let's say pvp is restricted to one zone, but come launch day, people get to that zone and find out its really well made and, most importantly, extremely fun to play. Do you want to miss out on that just because you have already set limits on what features you need in order to enjoy a game?

    My advice would be to just play the game and decide for yourself if its fun to you or not.

  • 1vald21vald2 StuttgartPosts: 75Member
    Originally posted by RizelStar
    Originally posted by tkreep
    Why are people hating on open world pvp and saying it wont work when WoW the most popular mmo had it from the start where it has some of the most populated PvP servers such as illidan.  The mmo crowd has turned into a bunch of wimps with their restricted safe pvp lol.  PvP is so much more immersive and fun when its sudden in the middle of PvEing.  And its not like it was free for fall.  I seriously dont understand why they cant have the cyrodil pvp with open world pvp in the faction lands and exploration.

    I'd guess WoW had the best timing.

    Rift operates the same way right?

    Cause I believe out of all the themeparks that have ow pvp the only one that can be used as an example would be...WoW and/or maybe Rift possibly. Maybe I'm missing an MMORPG though.

    I think it'd be cool if in ESO, you can hit other factions in their own faction zone though rather than just cyrodill.

    Yeah, I loved to invade ogrimmar with a 5 man party and prey on hordes ^_^ 

    TBH I never PK'd lower lvls because it wasn't a challenge. And it might be nice to have the same in ESO, for example let only MAX lvls pk eachother in their faction zones :D

    image

  • ZedTheRockZedTheRock Florence, KYPosts: 172Member
    Originally posted by Shadanwolf
    I'm glade you found out early....you're not going to play the game.

    Thyis is like his 100th post bashing the game too, of course he isn't going to play he is trying to troll.  Report and move on and do not feed the troll.

    SUP

  • KothosesKothoses GalwayPosts: 758Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Saxonblade
    Originally posted by superconducting

    Open world PVP sounds good on paper but in practice is a bad idea. There are a whole host of problems associated with it:

    - PVP would be way too scattered and less focused. Small groups or individual players would be haphazardly fighting rather than having larger-scale battles between armies.

    - People would not easily know where to go to join up with their groups.

    - PVE content (which is most of the game) would not be safe to do. You could never feel safe questing.

    - It would be a lore-breaker (at least initially before 50+) if factions are not restricted to the races the comprise them.

     

    I remember when runescape decided to open up the whole world to PVP, instead of just limiting it to the wilderness. The amount of backlash they received was mind-numbing. PvP was ruined so much that they eventually they restored the wilderness to the way it was before.

    Tell the people at blizz that, it was in fact the removal of meaningful OW PVP that cost blizz many subs. OW PvP in Vanilla WoW was some of the best OW PvP in any game.

    The word meaningful, does not mean what you think it means.

     

    There was no meaning to OW PvP in Vanilla wow, the reason people gathered up at Southshore and Tarren Mill (and this was the same in the Lumbercamp / Darkshore area) to fight was because these were the first areas you encountered the enemy, and so the most likely to have some one charge in on another person.  

     

    There was very little meaning to it, nothing change, you gained nothing from doing it, but people enjoyed the back and forth, hence blizz made warzones to allow for a more structured flow to PvP, these proved immesurably more popular when combined with actual PVP progression.

     

    Ow PVP is over-rated in games that are not designed purely for that, there is no difference between OW PvP and the Mists in GW except you get to press a button to enter and you know what you are going to be doing.

    Promoting thought a new Gaming video blog http://www.youtube.com/user/quinnthalas discussing games, gamers and the internet with gameplay footage as background.

  • MoulsMouls ububuaPosts: 90Member
    Originally posted by HighMarshal

    Has any full open world PvP games ever survived? Most crash and burn after release, while the rest slowly fade into........

    Oblivion!

    UO,EVE,Lineage I&II, Shadowbane done well for a time.

     

    OP:

    There is no 'risk vs reward' in TESO, neither 'Territorial Control Warfare' so there is nothing to justify OWPVP,implementing it would be idiocy thats because there is only RvR wich works like a 'placeholder'

  • karat76karat76 Wellston, OHPosts: 1,000Member Uncommon
    They have already stated pvp will be in Cyrodill. There was a mention about being able to go to a level 50 version of the other factions areas but I believe you would be phased so no farming the newbies.
  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,546Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mouls
    Originally posted by HighMarshal

    Has any full open world PvP games ever survived? Most crash and burn after release, while the rest slowly fade into........

    Oblivion!

    UO,EVE,Lineage I&II, Shadowbane done well for a time.

     

    OP:

    There is no 'risk vs reward' neither 'Territorial Control Warfare' so there is nothing to justify OWPVP in TESO,implementing it would be idiocy thats because there is only RvR.

    Why cant they just put it because its fun and make the world feel more alive

  • MoulsMouls ububuaPosts: 90Member
    Originally posted by tkreep
    Originally posted by Mouls
    Originally posted by HighMarshal

    Has any full open world PvP games ever survived? Most crash and burn after release, while the rest slowly fade into........

    Oblivion!

    UO,EVE,Lineage I&II, Shadowbane done well for a time.

     

    OP:

    There is no 'risk vs reward' neither 'Territorial Control Warfare' so there is nothing to justify OWPVP in TESO,implementing it would be idiocy thats because there is only RvR.

    Why cant they just put it because its fun and make the world feel more alive

    Because the game was not designed for that,

    TESO was designed(just like GW2 )to have players in the open world to cooperate instead of killing each other. 

  • VendacVendac Sauk City, WIPosts: 39Member

    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Wow never had "meaningful open world pvp"

    Sacrilege ...   How dare you speak ill of the mighty Blizzard?

    Originally posted by stragen001
    OP - In answer to your unwritten question - No, you wont be able to Gank teh Newbs

    So true.  About 10% of the people that want full open PvP are actually good players looking for a good fight.  The rest are just bads farming the noobs.

    You cant fix stupid - Ron White

  • GrixxittGrixxitt New Orleans, LAPosts: 543Member
    Originally posted by Vendac

    Originally posted by stragen001
    OP - In answer to your unwritten question - No, you wont be able to Gank teh Newbs

    So true.  About 10% of the people that want full open PvP are actually good players looking for a good fight.  The rest are just bads farming the noobs.

    So in your scenario the many are farming the...none? What?

     

    Its pretty pathetic to see people believe so heartily in restricting how other people decide to play.

    The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)

    -The MMO Forum Community

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,447Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Grixxitt
    Originally posted by Vendac

    Originally posted by stragen001
    OP - In answer to your unwritten question - No, you wont be able to Gank teh Newbs

    So true.  About 10% of the people that want full open PvP are actually good players looking for a good fight.  The rest are just bads farming the noobs.

    So in your scenario the many are farming the...none? What?

     

    Its pretty pathetic to see people believe so heartily in restricting how other people decide to play.

    This is much like no smoking laws. When your freedom to smoke gets in the way of me not smoking. Sorry smoker put it out. Same with PvP. This model is designed to keep PvPers killing people who want to PvP. How is that unfair? The AvA map has all flavors of PvP, group, solo, raids, PvE (quests and dungeons) where PvP can happen at any time. If you really wana go kill low level players then your not a real PvPer and this is not the game for you.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,608Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Grixxitt
    Originally posted by Vendac

    Originally posted by stragen001
    OP - In answer to your unwritten question - No, you wont be able to Gank teh Newbs

    So true.  About 10% of the people that want full open PvP are actually good players looking for a good fight.  The rest are just bads farming the noobs.

    So in your scenario the many are farming the...none? What?

     

    Its pretty pathetic to see people believe so heartily in restricting how other people decide to play.

    What is truly pathetic is people that don't realize an MMO is not just about them and that what they do affects someone else's enjoyment.

    In MMOs yeah, some people are ignorant enough with their cheats, hacks and griefing that they have to be restricted. Anyone who has ever played an open world PvP game where ganking is possible knows damn well that there are always some people camping low level quest hubs and ganking those 50 levels below them...always.

    Some developers--Arenanet and Zenimax for example--know that this has always been the way so they decided to segregate PvP and PvE. If that alienates the anti social jerks who get their jollies out of griefing, so be it. They're willing to make do without their money.

    There are assholes who play MMOs and even the most hardcore full loot ffa PvP MMOs sometimes have to step in and "restrict how other people decide to play." Want an example? Here you go: http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/7353/Darkfalls-Disgusting-HOGGs.html

     

  • Tindale111Tindale111 croydonPosts: 197Member
    personally iprefer the way its done in wow and eq2 zone in for pvp i know there are a lot who enjoy pvp i do as well but the majority of the time i want to do the quests or harvest etc i believe the area in Elder scrolls for pvp is going to be pretty huge so should be enough for everyone and one more point in most big named mmos their was always more PvE servers than PvP and also tho cant be compared to much to their rpgs oblivion /morrowind skyrim etc they were (to me anyway) all about exploring anyway if you want all pvp go for a game like darkfall where the complaints all seem to be about ganking at the moment
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Real open world pvp games dont have quest hubs.

    I think its important to distinguish between a 90% pve game where they just flag some servers for pvp and may Include some instanced match pvp - e.g. wow

    And REAL ffa pvp games that are designed for ffa pvp - e.g. eve.

    If course people run around killing noobs for shits and giggles in your wow type games. That's because the pvp us utterly pointless.

    There's no economic driver like in your eve and uo style games

    There's no realm pride / shared risk of your rvr games like daoc and planetside(1)

    Mind I don't think TESO will fall in the later category as as far as I can tell there us no shared risk, it will be semi pointless like gw2 WvW.
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,447Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Real open world pvp games dont have quest hubs.

    I think its important to distinguish between a 90% pve game where they just flag some servers for pvp and may Include some instanced match pvp - e.g. wow

    And REAL ffa pvp games that are designed for ffa pvp - e.g. eve.

    If course people run around killing noobs for shits and giggles in your wow type games. That's because the pvp us utterly pointless.

    There's no economic driver like in your eve and uo style games

    There's no realm pride / shared risk of your rvr games like daoc and planetside(1)

    Mind I don't think TESO will fall in the later category as as far as I can tell there us no shared risk, it will be semi pointless like gw2 WvW.

    So far your winning of your conflict will get a buff that makes you more powerful and you need to be part of that conflict to get the buffs. Also there is a Mega-dungeon they are adding that you only have access to if your conflict is wining the conflict in some way. Not sure how but only the winning side can zone into the Mega-dungeon. I hope it will be like Darkness Falls where if your inside and the other faction gets access you dont get kicked out. Used to have a lot of fun with that with my rogue. 


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


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