Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

"Free to play" really just means "we're not going to tell you how much we intend to make you pay or

1246714

Comments

  • PoporiPopori Hickory Grove, SCPosts: 334Member
    Originally posted by Robokapp
    Originally posted by Onomas

    Do you honestly think someone would come up with an idea, produce it, and advertize it only to give it away free?

    addictinggames.com

    Turn off ad-block and check out all the freeness on that site.

  • jalexbrownjalexbrown Indianapolis, INPosts: 120Member
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    I prefer to know a game's business model up front before deciding whether to play it.  When a company advertises a game as "free to play", they're trying to hide the business model, as they're never going to truly give away everything for free.  Do you think "free to play" will eventually become a derogatory term that marketers avoid for that reason?

    Free to play means just what it sounds like - it's free to play, not free to play forever.  It's just like going to an all you can eat buffet doesn't ensure that you're going to get to eat for the rest of your life.

  • GroovyFlowerGroovyFlower RdamPosts: 1,245Member

    Free two play means to me FREE two play not part of game and if i want more i need to buy in cashshop no thx.

    Same with DLC only if its a expansion that comes later not on day one that already should have been in the game at launch.

    I rather pay subscription and know i get 100% then free two play and get 80% or maybe even less.

    60 euro's for GW2 not one eurocent ive spent in cashshop i eventually stop playing it became a cashshop game items on trade became way to expensive rich people just bought gems to change them into gold.

  • birdycephonbirdycephon Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 1,314Member
    Originally posted by WW4BW

    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Quizzical
     

    You can have a free trial on a subscription game.  Games have done that for a long time.  Now a subscription game with a free trial will be marketed as "free to play", though, which further confuses the issue.

     With the phrase: "Play for FREE" at any rate.

     

    On the contrary, free to play fits perfectly, because as you know, youre always free to not play as well.
  • SiveriaSiveria Saint John, New BrunswickPosts: 1,200Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    I prefer to know a game's business model up front before deciding whether to play it.  When a company advertises a game as "free to play", they're trying to hide the business model, as they're never going to truly give away everything for free.  Do you think "free to play" will eventually become a derogatory term that marketers avoid for that reason?

    I'll be honest, Most f2p's are fairy nickle and diming types. However some stand out, like Warframe and Path of exile, in PoE everything is mostly cosmetic. In Warframe almost everything in the cash shop except the color palletes can be earned in game and it doesn't take that long. Exception being the reactor/catalyst to upgrade your stuff (gives them 60 mod points (2 per rank) insted of 30 at rank 30) You can get them in game they are just fairly rare. Anyway these are 2 prime examples and ya know what? because the devs of both of these games don't nickle and dime you, alot of people spend to support them.

    Honestly I don't think f2p is going anywhere, anytime soon, Alot of people prefer the model since there is no upfront costs to try the game out. Compared to a p2p mmo where u need to buy the box. Yes, some p2p games have trials but they are capped at usually such a low level that you cannot really experence the game much.

    Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

    A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

    or

    B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

    Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  • FalstaffFalstaff Attica, OHPosts: 72Member Uncommon

    I never understood the argument on this subject..  Its not like free to play is forcing anyone to pay.. If your content to have less,  you can play the majority of the game with paying a cent.   do you really need that cool mount skin that moves 5% faster?  

     

    Most ppl equate free to play as ransonware.   these companies are not hiding your game screen unitl you donate money to them..   pay to play is more like ransonware that the free to play model.  

  • SiveriaSiveria Saint John, New BrunswickPosts: 1,200Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Falstaff

    I never understood the argument on this subject..  Its not like free to play is forcing anyone to pay.. If your content to have less,  you can play the majority of the game with paying a cent.   do you really need that cool mount skin that moves 5% faster?  

     

    Most ppl equate free to play as ransonware.   these companies are not hiding your game screen unitl you donate money to them..   pay to play is more like ransonware that the free to play model.  

    Well the problem is Falstaff, that alot of these f2p mmo's are specifically setup to force you to use the cash shop to be even. Especally if it has pvp. Some of them have gear thats better than u can get dropped (SMT: imagine for example). What I do like is the f2p mmo's that allow cash shop items to be traded, so that people who do not want to pay, can buy them using ingame funds insted of rl cash and let someone else foot the bill. Its what I usually do, unless I really like the game if the items are tradable i'll just make the money in game for it. All the rare stuff my chars have in smt: imagine is all cash shop gear I bought with ingame money I farmed. I got some rare sets with awesome set bonuses that aren't avail anymore, and they look nice to boot.

    Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

    A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

    or

    B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

    Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  • DisdenaDisdena Troy, NYPosts: 1,093Member

    I used to love playing Mega Man. Then I found out you could buy a thing called Game Genie to get infinite lives. Now I hate Mega Man; I don't want to pay money for a Game Genie, so my version of the game is "crippled" because I only have 3 lives.

     

    Judge the game sans cash shop on its own merits. Don't worry about what other people are doing, and don't worry about how much easier the game would be if you paid for help. The idea that the normal mode of a game can be crippled by the mere existence of an optional alternate way of playing is ludicrous.

    image
  • FalstaffFalstaff Attica, OHPosts: 72Member Uncommon

    free to play is what is says it is..   i have played many free to play games without spending a dime.   im not ocd, adhd.  i dont need to dominiate pvp. i dont need to sit in town to show off my uber armor/weps/mounts.   

     

    if everyone would wake up and realize mmo companies are not non-profit organizations.  they are only making these games for one reason,  and its not to make the player base happy

  • AlberelAlberel LondonPosts: 1,121Member

    The issue I have is that F2P games ultimately end up more expensive than a P2P game if you do choose to start spending money. Everyone has heard of players throwing hundreds of dollars at F2P games, especially on those horrible random lockboxes so many seem to have. There is an inherently underhanded marketing tactic there; luring players in with the word 'free' then tempting them to actually spend more money than a subscription would cost. I'll never fall for it, but it still bothers me... it's precisely that marketing strategy that makes so many people suspicious of F2P games.

    Having said that the likes of Aion and Tera have very good F2P models. There really isn't much pressure to spend and almost everything is cosmetic or inconsequential convenience. Hopefully more will choose to follow that route.

    In an ideal world I'd like to see a F2P game offer a subscription that gives you unlimited access to everything in the cash shop. That would be the perfect hybrid.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Generally speaking

    Yeah f2p means we are going to pick your pockets later.

    But recently we've seen some fairer free play models like gw2 and ps2.

    So where,as once I was vehemently anti f2p, now I recognise there are a handful of games that do f2p right.
  • Four0SixFour0Six Missoula, MTPosts: 1,181Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    I prefer to know a game's business model up front before deciding whether to play it.  When a company advertises a game as "free to play", they're trying to hide the business model, as they're never going to truly give away everything for free.  Do you think "free to play" will eventually become a derogatory term that marketers avoid for that reason?

    "F2P" will never become a derogatory term, because peeps love "free".

    Here is a tip from a skeptic, me, "Nothing is free".

    Take for example this: I am heading back to college, and recently went through an oreintation. During a campus tour we were told a list of "free" services we get. Including, "Free tickest to sporting events.", "Free access to the fitness center". Now I am an avid capitalist and have an accountant for a wife, so I inspect every bill I get and keep recipts for everything. Sooooo, I know that those tickes and access arent "Free" at all. In fact there is even an "athletic fee" right on the bill. But here we are on a tour hearing about all the freebies. HA.

    The reality is it cost money to do stuff, like develope, publish, and operate a game. As consumers it is our responsibility to understand ALL the costs and be aware. Yes I know some marketing is designed to "sucker" many, with a focus on youth. But, I also am aware that "youths" are not adults and even the law doesnt grant them full sets of rights. So I put that on their parents.

     

  • pmilespmiles Federal Way, WAPosts: 383Member

    The game is free to play... all you waste by trying/playing it is time... time that you clearly have or you wouldn't have bothered to download it in the first place.  

     

    I think you are more concerned with competiveness than with the business model... cash shops that offer players an advantage over those that acquire things the slow way.  Or the fact that you built up your character only to be left in a desolate wasteland that offers you little or no challenge once you get there.

     

    People will pay for fun.  People will pay for competiveness.  The two aren't mutually intertwined.  People seem to think competive games are fun... and yet, they typically become old the quickest.  You start a new game and are having fun... you're not in dungeons or doing dailies grinding rep or gear, you're just out there exploring and learning about your character.  Then you hit max level and all of a sudden it's about gear and rep and gold.  It's like work.  When you started the game, it was a vacation, by the end, it's a job.  Does F2P make a game any less of a job?  Any more of a vacation?  No.  The players turn it into one or the other.  The developers merely gave you the tools... you ultimately turned it into what it becomes... for good or bad.

     

    You might claim otherwise... but remember this, it was the players that turned leveling into a swarm of locusts.  You chose to find the easiest direct route to max level.  That's player choice, not game design.  I think the only ones concerned about cash shops are the locusts.... the ones who have to be top dog right this instant.  They are who the cash shops are for.  That's a player choice... not a business model.

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by Fangrim

    I play eq2 for free.No new xpacs you need to pay for will be released anymore.We just today got a whole new zone with dungeons and raid zone in it.All 100% free full game,you just need to know how to make plat and buy krono.I will play forever for free.

    Oh so you can play those new zones without Velious? Or level to 85 without Chains of Eternity? Which you cant buy with Station Cash (so plat farming wont help you).

    Also they nerfed plat farming in the latest patch. So you wont be doing that efficiently as a solo player either (1p at a time will take a while).

    I have 3 more years of sub paid for from plat made by raiding in EQ2 last year, but yeah, the game isnt free, especially if you arent an established player.

  • FalstaffFalstaff Attica, OHPosts: 72Member Uncommon

    this is the kind of guy that free to play games want.  totally crazy.  most ppl arent that dumb

    http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/04/29/nh-man-loses-life-savings-on-carnival-game/

     

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,638Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Alberel

    The issue I have is that F2P games ultimately end up more expensive than a P2P game if you do choose to start spending money.

    That goes against all the data that is currently available. Could you share the source for that? I get the feeling you are interpretting ARPPU as median return per user, which, due to the skew of the top end, is an inaccurate number.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Alberel

    The issue I have is that F2P games ultimately end up more expensive than a P2P game if you do choose to start spending money.

    That goes against all the data that is currently available. Could you share the source for that?

     Well, I think what he needs to do is correct himself and state, "If you have no self-control on your spending habits you'll spend more money than a subscription model."

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    I prefer to know a game's business model up front before deciding whether to play it.  When a company advertises a game as "free to play", they're trying to hide the business model, as they're never going to truly give away everything for free.  Do you think "free to play" will eventually become a derogatory term that marketers avoid for that reason?

    Subscription is, " We'll never tell you how bad the game's going to be or how poorly it's at launch or the fact that we'll add an additional cash shop on the side. Heck we might never add any content to the short lifespan our game has. But you'll have to blindly trust us with you 15 dollar donations up front."

     See what I did there? Stop it.

    You can have a free trial on a subscription game.  Games have done that for a long time.  Now a subscription game with a free trial will be marketed as "free to play", though, which further confuses the issue.

    Not all subscription games always had/have free-trials so your point still provides some what invalid. You'll also never see how much longevity a game has from only being able to play a game for just 10 levels or how many content updates a company adds unless you watch it constantly. You're blindly accepting them to take your money up front without any guarentee that they'll keep up to date.

     In addition, I've played many Pay-to-win games in my time and I have never been forced to use those items to continue playing the game. Hense your point is still invalid (for myself because I have self-control and patience) when it comes to the Free-to-Play market. So if I want to play a game such as Neverwinter I have the ability to avoid paying for convienence.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,770Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Disdena

    I used to love playing Mega Man. Then I found out you could buy a thing called Game Genie to get infinite lives. Now I hate Mega Man; I don't want to pay money for a Game Genie, so my version of the game is "crippled" because I only have 3 lives.

     

    Judge the game sans cash shop on its own merits. Don't worry about what other people are doing, and don't worry about how much easier the game would be if you paid for help. The idea that the normal mode of a game can be crippled by the mere existence of an optional alternate way of playing is ludicrous.

    For a single-player game in which you don't interact with anyone else, you can do that.  If someone else can come by and easily kill you because he's bought a bunch of item mall stuff, then it's kind of hard to ignore that.  Ditto if you get kicked from groups or guilds because you aren't loaded up with item mall stuff.

    Now, you can say, not all "free to play" games will be like that.  But some are, and that's part of the problem:  it's not trivial to tell which ones are.  Even if you can see that a sword in the item mall offers 100 attack power, you don't know if that far better than anything that you can get apart from the item mall, or if you'll commonly get stuff much better in the normal course of playing the game.  With a subscription game, you don't have to worry about that.

  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 , CAPosts: 2,439Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Disdena

    I used to love playing Mega Man. Then I found out you could buy a thing called Game Genie to get infinite lives. Now I hate Mega Man; I don't want to pay money for a Game Genie, so my version of the game is "crippled" because I only have 3 lives.

     

    Judge the game sans cash shop on its own merits. Don't worry about what other people are doing, and don't worry about how much easier the game would be if you paid for help. The idea that the normal mode of a game can be crippled by the mere existence of an optional alternate way of playing is ludicrous.

    Is it? (It is a bit different when talking about MMOs where you/your character is compared to others.)

    Just wait til the alternate way becomes the norm. How many people that play EVE have two or more accounts so they can run more profitable operations solo? Well, most people I know do. So if I don't then I am crippled and unable to make enough credits so effortlessly to buy PLEX. My income gets crippled for not paying more.

    No F2P but still an advantage can be bought.

  • KuviskiKuviski KajaaniPosts: 214Member
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    I prefer to know a game's business model up front before deciding whether to play it.  When a company advertises a game as "free to play", they're trying to hide the business model, as they're never going to truly give away everything for free.  Do you think "free to play" will eventually become a derogatory term that marketers avoid for that reason?

    I kind of hope it will, because in games where the Free-to-Play and Pay-to-Play players are not kept on, say, separate servers so that they don't compete in the game directly, the term F2P tends to always mean nothing but "free trial".

     

    I'm expecting people will learn what the term really stands for soon enough, after all the F2P boom is quite a new phenomena, and when that happens, marketeers will understand they have to change their strategy and quit using the word.

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by mmoguy43
    Originally posted by Disdena

    I used to love playing Mega Man. Then I found out you could buy a thing called Game Genie to get infinite lives. Now I hate Mega Man; I don't want to pay money for a Game Genie, so my version of the game is "crippled" because I only have 3 lives.

     

    Judge the game sans cash shop on its own merits. Don't worry about what other people are doing, and don't worry about how much easier the game would be if you paid for help. The idea that the normal mode of a game can be crippled by the mere existence of an optional alternate way of playing is ludicrous.

    Is it? (It is a bit different when talking about MMOs where you/your character is compared to others.)

    Just wait til the alternate way becomes the norm. How many people that play EVE have two or more accounts so they can run more profitable operations solo? Well, most people I know do. So if I don't then I am crippled and unable to make enough credits so effortlessly to buy PLEX. My income gets crippled for not paying more.

    No F2P but still an advantage can be bought.

     You will never be able to win with this happening (and it happens in every game Subrscription and Free-to-Play) however, this does not stop people from still enjoying the game. So in your mind you're crippled however in someone elses they're playing the game to their advantage and there's nothing you can do to stop it.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kuviski
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    I prefer to know a game's business model up front before deciding whether to play it.  When a company advertises a game as "free to play", they're trying to hide the business model, as they're never going to truly give away everything for free.  Do you think "free to play" will eventually become a derogatory term that marketers avoid for that reason?

    I kind of hope it will, because in games where the Free-to-Play and Pay-to-Play players are not kept on, say, separate servers so that they don't compete in the game directly, the term F2P tends to always mean nothing but "free trial".

     

    I'm expecting people will learn what the term really stands for soon enough, after all the F2P boom is quite a new phenomena, and when that happens, marketeers will understand they have to change their strategy and quit using the word.

     A new phenomena? Are you kidding? Have you been living under a rock? Free-to-play has existed for almost as long as the MMO genre has. What are you talking about? It's only until now that the western companies have realised how much they've hindered their success by using subscription vs. free-to-play.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Four0Six
     

    "F2P" will never become a derogatory term, because peeps love "free".

    Here is a tip from a skeptic, me, "Nothing is free".

     

    Fun is free if you have self-control. I do. Play lots of F2P games for free for a while already.

  • FdzzaiglFdzzaigl Somewhere in nowherePosts: 2,309Member Uncommon

    It is indeed often pretty unclear how much you actually need to pay to be competitive in a game.

    Personally, I'd prefer F2P games just saying up front that you can play this far and that content XYZ (like raids / endgame PvP zones / new content) is paid for.

    Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

Sign In or Register to comment.