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Official post - when questing in other faction's zones won't even be able to see other faction's pla

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  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Is it the "tes fanbase" that are upset?

    It is it?
    The now homeless swg fanbase
    The now ancient EQ fanbase
    The want a game like darkfall, that wors with a decent budget fanbase
    The want a game like eve but not with space ships fanbase
    The want a game like vanguard, that people will actually play due to the ip fanbase

    Etc.. etc..
  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Eol-
    Originally posted by jmcdermottuk

    It's more accurate to say that you pick a race and your alliance is then forced on you, there's no choice involved in alliance membership. That's part of the TES fan's problems with this game.

    All this happens at character creation when you pick your race.

    Thats true of any RvR game, where races are part of a realm. And frankly it makes a lot more sense than letting races split up and join any alliance they want. Because in the ES lore I have seen, each race tends to be all on one side and sticks together. So if you did it your way, it would be even less consistent with ES lore, because then race would have no bearing on alliance whatsoever.

    Yeah I never understood the people who say its fits TES more to allow people to go into other lands they're at war with without consequence. In all the TES lore, when races are at war with one another, they DO NOT mingle.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,463Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Actually Mael
    Rift works exactly like Nan describes.

    It is after all a wow clone.

    First time I was forced flagged was in EQ1 in 2001. Me and some friends were killing trash mobs in Najena and we saw a guy with a red name and had no clue what that ment. He kept dancing around us as we killed mobs till I did a AE and he killed me. He was many levels higher then I and my team mates attack when they got what happened but he killed them all. He camped Najena for hours doing the same trick. Even when you knew what he was doinging. From time to time someone would use a AE skill by mistake and die.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Sugar Grove, VAPosts: 1,550Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Davis is right.

    So far I see 2 daoc features in this game.

    1 crafted gear is good
    2 there's some sort of end game 3 sided pvp, although it will be more like gw2 than daoc anyway (e.g. a casual, simplified, kiddie friendly version)

    That's it, nothing else in the game reminds me of daoc at all. For example all these things we know of TESO are most definetly NOT daoc.
    1 instances of dungeons and world zones
    2 phasing
    3 megaserver
    4 led by the nose questing
    5 gw2 combat
    6 rift class system
    7 no raids
    8 no housing
    9 no ffa servers
    10 no pure pve servers
    11 you are the hero story line
    12 no server community, piss people off, just jump to another shard

    This.

    Except not. 

    1. There are also open dungeons.

    2. Already been said that it doesnt effect gameplay

    3. Sounds good to me. Not sure what the problem is..

    4. Hardly. If being ' led by the nose questing ' means going out exploring and finding quests then sign me up.

    5. Somewhat and Not really at the same time.

    6. I dont see any similarities at all.

    7. True but they will come.

    9. True and same as #8 it will be around at some point. EQ2 style housing is what I want.. Keep the houses out of the game world.

    10. Ummm. Stay out of Cyrodil and you will have your PvE server with tons of content.

    11. And? 

    12. Assumption. You can play with your friends and make new ones the same as any other MMO.

    Sounds like a pretty good pros list to me.

    image

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,295Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by immodium

    I'm not really speaking for everyone in that post. I clearly start the sentence with 'I prefer'. The rest of my post is all my opinions.

    I don't see me claiming this is what TES fans want in any of my posts.

    Well the point is, we all exagerate to make our points from time to time. So even if you were to claim it I would take it with a pinch of salt.

    The difference is when people take exception to people using generic statements like "TES fans" MMO fans" or any other type of generalisation and draws the discussion off on a tangent away from the point being made. It is a tactic used to hide the real point of discussion.

    You see the real issue here is that Nano thinks there isn't any other way then how the developers way...unless they change that way in which case the new way is the only way...unless the developers change that way and then the new way is the only way...

    [mod edit]

     

    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    Then I would stop using terms like "The real TES fans want" or "This is what the customers want" As for the changes to the game, they kept the core design intact. So Im 100% fine with the changes. 

    Quote me and I will appologise.

    At worst I might generalise rather then provide specific quantifiable numbers to each forum and the level of complaints but that is just for ease of conversation. If anyone does use the term then I am pretty confident it is used as a basis for their argument formed from their personal opinion. To read anything more from such a statement ignores the fact that people usually do it to give weight to their statement rather then any actual belief that their proposition actuall is a reflection of "Everyone".

    The point I made or at least was trying to make was that, changes are being made for a reason. And it is a fair assumption that the reason is the results from Beta testing, their market research into what 'TES fans' want or more likely a combination of both these and their own internal testing.

    I would argue though that the reason they are having to make changes is due to the very fact that they have kept the core design in tact. The reason for each of these changes, workarounds, compromises etc...is simply because, this far into development that are unable to change the core design even if they wanted to (I actually think the core design could be changed but that is just opinion).

    When you look at the game from a design point of view it is easy to follow the path back the the root issue. And that root issue is simply that they took a game that is designed around freedoms and openess and built the game around a system they is reliant upon locked and enclosed systems.

    I personally think it is a no brainer why there seems to be a backlash that Zenimax are trying to address.

    =-) Or quote me and I will make excuses

    while Zenimax are trying to address some of these concerns, the problem is that their not going far enough, or even it seems, in the right direction,  it could be that the game engine itself is part of the problem, or at least the server system, which at the moment could even be a major factor in the games failure in general,  realm pride has been quoted several times in different arguments, but the game is not designed to encourage realm pride, for one thing, the only times you'll meet the players your fighting alongside in cyrodiil.. is in cyrodil.. outside of your particular campaign, you will more likely be playing alongside people from different campaigns, becoming a member of a guild, puts all those guild members on the same 'server' outside of cyrodil, instead of them being on whichever happens to have a space free on at the time of your zoning into it..  sometimes, i think this game is being made by cryptic...  it just sounds too much like how they do things.image

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Why do eq2 housing when daoc housing is better.

    Although swg did housing the best.
  • RictisRictis UnknownPosts: 1,231Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Actually Mael
    Rift works exactly like Nan describes.

    It is after all a wow clone.

    First time I was forced flagged was in EQ1 in 2001. Me and some friends were killing trash mobs in Najena and we saw a guy with a red name and had no clue what that ment. He kept dancing around us as we killed mobs till I did a AE and he killed me. He was many levels higher then I and my team mates attack when they got what happened but he killed them all. He camped Najena for hours doing the same trick. Even when you knew what he was doinging. From time to time someone would use a AE skill by mistake and die.

    That is an old problem that exists but a small problem really. AOE skills were not that necessary unless you were chain pulling in EQ. You could avoid using AOE skills and still chain farm if you were good enough or had a monk us FD. There are ways to avoid annoying higher levels.

  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Sugar Grove, VAPosts: 1,550Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Caliburn101
    Originally posted by SlyLoK

    Old information.

    Questing in the other factions territory will be like leveled content from previous TES games providing more PvE content and rewards. Dont see the problem other than those that only want to go into the other factions area to gank low level players.

    WHHHIIIINNNNE - I want go to be able to explore all territories with one character! - ZOS : OK here you go have fun - WHHHIIIINNNNNE - What I really meant was that I wanted to gank lowbies! - ZOS : Not happening.

    Cant please the haters who complain about everything.

    'Haters' who as you put it 'WHHIIIINNNE' are mostly just people with opinions you don't care for.

    Why don't you engage with them without the insults?

    No insults at all. Not sure where you came up with that idea. People were whining because of faction locks and then ZOS changed to where you can adventure in other faction lands and now they chose something else to whine about.. Its never ending.

    image

  • SiugSiug TallinnPosts: 1,236Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Why do eq2 housing when daoc housing is better.

    Although swg did housing the best.

    Please stop this Daoc shite. If anything then mentioning this one constantly in every single TES thread creates negative vibes. I don't care about Daoc, never cared and never will. But I do care about TES. I dont mind RvR but if this turns into some half-arsed Daoc shite then it will fail. Period.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,463Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wakygreek
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Actually Mael
    Rift works exactly like Nan describes.

    It is after all a wow clone.

    First time I was forced flagged was in EQ1 in 2001. Me and some friends were killing trash mobs in Najena and we saw a guy with a red name and had no clue what that ment. He kept dancing around us as we killed mobs till I did a AE and he killed me. He was many levels higher then I and my team mates attack when they got what happened but he killed them all. He camped Najena for hours doing the same trick. Even when you knew what he was doinging. From time to time someone would use a AE skill by mistake and die.

    That is an old problem that exists but a small problem really. AOE skills were not that necessary unless you were chain pulling in EQ. You could avoid using AOE skills and still chain farm if you were good enough or had a monk us FD. There are ways to avoid annoying higher levels.

    Then why didnt the problem end in EQ1? In ESO most of the skills are AE, even healing has no ST healing. So if ESO had a flag system here is a way you can force someone to flag. Seen this used in WoW. I make a char the same faction I wana kill. I flag and run around where teams are killing stuff and healers are healing them. Healer AE on me and now they are flagged. My friends playing the other faction now kill everyone doing PvE. 

    My friends did that in WoW. Make a low level char and stand in the barrens asking for buffs and when someone would buff them and become flagged their friends would steam roll anyone who left the quest hub flagged. People like to mess with people who dont wana PvP. Not evenyone but there is a group of players that find this fun. Thats why IMO the flag system is broken.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Sugar Grove, VAPosts: 1,550Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Why do eq2 housing when daoc housing is better.

    Although swg did housing the best.

    SWG did housing the best? You mean you liked being stopped in one place not knowing why until you realized you were running into a house that has yet to load? Granted SWG had plenty of empty land unused land mass for player to put houses but TES isnt and having houses clutter everything like it did in UO isnt something I want to see. It just makes game ugly.

    LoTRO or DAoC housing could work but I personally do not want a serperate zone for houses. If housing worked like EQ2 then ZOS could put many houses in towns / villages / in the game world for all the players to use. 

    Housing isnt a big thing for me I just hope it done like UO or SWG.

    image

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    It's called give them an inch and they take a yard.

    You've got 1 group now seeking to make pvp meaningless tsw / rift style with av everyone chums in pve - just pvp for fun approach.

    You've got another group on a mission to remove all pvp and make end game all about grinding raids for never ending tiered item sets

    You've got another smaller group who want pvp everywhere.

    You've got people with crazy ideas rife for exploitation like letting people POP in and out of ffa pvp phases and a pure pve phase for cyrodil.

    Not sure any of them are so much "tes fans" though, more your please recreate my dead / broken / underfunded / old mmo of choice fans.
  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by SlyLoK
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Davis is right.

    So far I see 2 daoc features in this game.

    1 crafted gear is good
    2 there's some sort of end game 3 sided pvp, although it will be more like gw2 than daoc anyway (e.g. a casual, simplified, kiddie friendly version)

    That's it, nothing else in the game reminds me of daoc at all. For example all these things we know of TESO are most definetly NOT daoc.
    1 instances of dungeons and world zones
    2 phasing
    3 megaserver
    4 led by the nose questing
    5 gw2 combat
    6 rift class system
    7 no raids
    8 no housing
    9 no ffa servers
    10 no pure pve servers
    11 you are the hero story line
    12 no server community, piss people off, just jump to another shard

    This.

    Except not. 

    1. There are also open dungeons.

    2. Already been said that it doesnt effect gameplay

    3. Sounds good to me. Not sure what the problem is..

    4. Hardly. If being ' led by the nose questing ' means going out exploring and finding quests then sign me up.

    5. Somewhat and Not really at the same time.

    6. I dont see any similarities at all.

    7. True but they will come.

    9. True and same as #8 it will be around at some point. EQ2 style housing is what I want.. Keep the houses out of the game world.

    10. Ummm. Stay out of Cyrodil and you will have your PvE server with tons of content.

    11. And? 

    12. Assumption. You can play with your friends and make new ones the same as any other MMO.

    Sounds like a pretty good pros list to me.

    First, almost everything on that list is flat out bad for an MMO.

    Second, this is a list of things that TESO has that DAOC did not. Commenting on whether or not you like these things does NOT change the fact that these are features that make htis NOT a DAoC successor, so all of you people can stop calling it one.

     

     

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Sly
    I think daoc style with a zone for housing would probably work best.

    Would be cool to make blacksmith station etc.. in your own guild village.

    I don't see point to eq2 style instanced housing, its so solo centrist.
  • RictisRictis UnknownPosts: 1,231Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Wakygreek
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Actually Mael
    Rift works exactly like Nan describes.

    It is after all a wow clone.

    First time I was forced flagged was in EQ1 in 2001. Me and some friends were killing trash mobs in Najena and we saw a guy with a red name and had no clue what that ment. He kept dancing around us as we killed mobs till I did a AE and he killed me. He was many levels higher then I and my team mates attack when they got what happened but he killed them all. He camped Najena for hours doing the same trick. Even when you knew what he was doinging. From time to time someone would use a AE skill by mistake and die.

    That is an old problem that exists but a small problem really. AOE skills were not that necessary unless you were chain pulling in EQ. You could avoid using AOE skills and still chain farm if you were good enough or had a monk us FD. There are ways to avoid annoying higher levels.

    Then why didnt the problem end in EQ1? In ESO most of the skills are AE, even healing has no ST healing. So if ESO had a flag system here is a way you can force someone to flag. Seen this used in WoW. I make a char the same faction I wana kill. I flag and run around where teams are killing stuff and healers are healing them. Healer AE on me and now they are flagged. My friends playing the other faction now kill everyone doing PvE. 

    My friends did that in WoW. Make a low level char and stand in the barrens asking for buffs and when someone would buff them and become flagged their friends would steam roll anyone who left the quest hub flagged. People like to mess with people who dont wana PvP. Not evenyone but there is a group of players that find this fun. Thats why IMO the flag system is broken.

    Yeah there are players out there that can certainly take advantage of any system. But by making enemies invisible this game has become more CO-OP then MMO.

  • znaiikaznaiika denver, PAPosts: 203Member
    Originally posted by PAL-18
    Originally posted by ReeseFlamelocks
    It does kind of make sense that the two groups would not see each other. If it's a PvE area and you are not allowed to PvP, then the two groups would just stare at each other and wonder stupidly why they aren't allowed to attack each other. They would need to justify the peace somehow using divine intervention or via a treaty arrangement in the context of the situation. That would probably be too much of a headache.

    What does not make sense is that if theres enemy NPCs ,how come theres no enemy players .

     

     

     

     

     

    I think that enemy NPC's are in syrodiil, for controll over throne. That is, other Faction NPC's.

    If it is for PVE players.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,463Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wakygreek
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Wakygreek
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Actually Mael
    Rift works exactly like Nan describes.

    It is after all a wow clone.

    First time I was forced flagged was in EQ1 in 2001. Me and some friends were killing trash mobs in Najena and we saw a guy with a red name and had no clue what that ment. He kept dancing around us as we killed mobs till I did a AE and he killed me. He was many levels higher then I and my team mates attack when they got what happened but he killed them all. He camped Najena for hours doing the same trick. Even when you knew what he was doinging. From time to time someone would use a AE skill by mistake and die.

    That is an old problem that exists but a small problem really. AOE skills were not that necessary unless you were chain pulling in EQ. You could avoid using AOE skills and still chain farm if you were good enough or had a monk us FD. There are ways to avoid annoying higher levels.

    Then why didnt the problem end in EQ1? In ESO most of the skills are AE, even healing has no ST healing. So if ESO had a flag system here is a way you can force someone to flag. Seen this used in WoW. I make a char the same faction I wana kill. I flag and run around where teams are killing stuff and healers are healing them. Healer AE on me and now they are flagged. My friends playing the other faction now kill everyone doing PvE. 

    My friends did that in WoW. Make a low level char and stand in the barrens asking for buffs and when someone would buff them and become flagged their friends would steam roll anyone who left the quest hub flagged. People like to mess with people who dont wana PvP. Not evenyone but there is a group of players that find this fun. Thats why IMO the flag system is broken.

    Yeah there are players out there that can certainly take advantage of any system. But by making enemies invisible this game has become more CO-OP then MMO.

    GW2 feels like a MMO, DAoC feels and plays like a MMO. Not sure I see your point.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • Eol-Eol- houston, TXPosts: 274Member
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     


    Originally posted by JasonJ
    Quick, send in the same 4 people that will say the same things they always say even though Zenimax themselves address this worry publicly. They were not targetting the extremely low quantity of diehard DaoC players, they want the TES fanbase, and they dont understand why they are so upset. Sure sign of a future full of trouble for a game when the makers are that disconnected from reality.


    Quoted for truth, and my agreeing opinion :)

     

    Please tell me what 'the TES fanbase' wants. How exactly do you know that 'they' are so upset? When did 'they' make you their appointed spokesperson?

    Jeesh. If we sat down 10 TES players in a room, we would probably get 10 different opinions about what they want from ESO. Dont act like there is this unanimous mindset, because its not remotely true. In fact, the only thing we know for sure about the TES fanbase is that they like playing the TES RPGs... and the problem is that a MMORPG is going to be different than an RPG designed for a hundred or two hours of single player gaming. No matter what the developers of ESO do, they are going to have to alienate some of the TES fans simply because its impossible to design Skyrim online and still have lots of players in 6 months.

    Elladan - ESO (AD)
    Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
    Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
    Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
    Kili - WoW
    Eol - Lineage 2
    Camring - SWG
    Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC

  • Squeak69Squeak69 Colorado Springs, COPosts: 956Member
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Wakygreek
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Wakygreek
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Actually Mael
    Rift works exactly like Nan describes.

    It is after all a wow clone.

    First time I was forced flagged was in EQ1 in 2001. Me and some friends were killing trash mobs in Najena and we saw a guy with a red name and had no clue what that ment. He kept dancing around us as we killed mobs till I did a AE and he killed me. He was many levels higher then I and my team mates attack when they got what happened but he killed them all. He camped Najena for hours doing the same trick. Even when you knew what he was doinging. From time to time someone would use a AE skill by mistake and die.

    That is an old problem that exists but a small problem really. AOE skills were not that necessary unless you were chain pulling in EQ. You could avoid using AOE skills and still chain farm if you were good enough or had a monk us FD. There are ways to avoid annoying higher levels.

    Then why didnt the problem end in EQ1? In ESO most of the skills are AE, even healing has no ST healing. So if ESO had a flag system here is a way you can force someone to flag. Seen this used in WoW. I make a char the same faction I wana kill. I flag and run around where teams are killing stuff and healers are healing them. Healer AE on me and now they are flagged. My friends playing the other faction now kill everyone doing PvE. 

    My friends did that in WoW. Make a low level char and stand in the barrens asking for buffs and when someone would buff them and become flagged their friends would steam roll anyone who left the quest hub flagged. People like to mess with people who dont wana PvP. Not evenyone but there is a group of players that find this fun. Thats why IMO the flag system is broken.

    Yeah there are players out there that can certainly take advantage of any system. But by making enemies invisible this game has become more CO-OP then MMO.

    GW2 feels like a MMO, DAoC feels and plays like a MMO. Not sure I see your point.

    got to be honest here im sick of people acting like MMOs have to be PvP, in fact i wish MMOs would concentrate on one or the other and stop trying to do both because its waters down both.

    F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used toimage
    Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,463Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Squeak69
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Wakygreek
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Wakygreek
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Actually Mael
    Rift works exactly like Nan describes.

    It is after all a wow clone.

    First time I was forced flagged was in EQ1 in 2001. Me and some friends were killing trash mobs in Najena and we saw a guy with a red name and had no clue what that ment. He kept dancing around us as we killed mobs till I did a AE and he killed me. He was many levels higher then I and my team mates attack when they got what happened but he killed them all. He camped Najena for hours doing the same trick. Even when you knew what he was doinging. From time to time someone would use a AE skill by mistake and die.

    That is an old problem that exists but a small problem really. AOE skills were not that necessary unless you were chain pulling in EQ. You could avoid using AOE skills and still chain farm if you were good enough or had a monk us FD. There are ways to avoid annoying higher levels.

    Then why didnt the problem end in EQ1? In ESO most of the skills are AE, even healing has no ST healing. So if ESO had a flag system here is a way you can force someone to flag. Seen this used in WoW. I make a char the same faction I wana kill. I flag and run around where teams are killing stuff and healers are healing them. Healer AE on me and now they are flagged. My friends playing the other faction now kill everyone doing PvE. 

    My friends did that in WoW. Make a low level char and stand in the barrens asking for buffs and when someone would buff them and become flagged their friends would steam roll anyone who left the quest hub flagged. People like to mess with people who dont wana PvP. Not evenyone but there is a group of players that find this fun. Thats why IMO the flag system is broken.

    Yeah there are players out there that can certainly take advantage of any system. But by making enemies invisible this game has become more CO-OP then MMO.

    GW2 feels like a MMO, DAoC feels and plays like a MMO. Not sure I see your point.

    got to be honest here im sick of people acting like MMOs have to be PvP, in fact i wish MMOs would concentrate on one or the other and stop trying to do both because its waters down both.

    Ya I can see your point. SPlitting dev time between PvE and PvP no one really gets all they want or the devs focus. I get why they do it. PvP gives the devs time to make more PvE content as PvP is something players dont mid recycling as its different every time. You never know what players are gona do.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • karat76karat76 Wellston, OHPosts: 1,000Member Uncommon
    I really don't have an issue with this. I can see plenty of the other factions in Cyrodil. This way I can still explore all of the zones and I like the fact that no raids have been announced. Really don't care if they ever include pve raids. I'll stick my my questing and exploration then hit Cyrodil a few times a week.
  • MaelwyddMaelwydd CrawleyPosts: 1,123Member
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
     

    =-) Or quote me and I will make excuses

    Neither quote you provided proved you point...so nothing to apologise for...

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,463Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
     

    =-) Or quote me and I will make excuses

    Neither quote you provided proved you point...so nothing to apologise for...

    Grats on removing the quote from your sig =-)


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • MaelwyddMaelwydd CrawleyPosts: 1,123Member
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
     

    =-) Or quote me and I will make excuses

    Neither quote you provided proved you point...so nothing to apologise for...

    Grats on removing the quote from your sig =-)

    Hadn't noticed it was gone...but nicely avoiding my point again...

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,463Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
     

    =-) Or quote me and I will make excuses

    Neither quote you provided proved you point...so nothing to apologise for...

    Grats on removing the quote from your sig =-)

    Hadn't noticed it was gone...but nicely avoiding my point again...

    Show me the point that has not already been addressed and I will reply =-) My guess is the mods removed it for you then. 


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


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