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Official post - when questing in other faction's zones won't even be able to see other faction's pla

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  • crasset15crasset15 TallinnPosts: 183Member

    Does this mean "real endgame" will take place in some other faction's area, just because we went there later than our own zone?  If endgame as Daggerfall covenant means I have to spend most of my time in Ebonheart pact area, because the resources there are higher level, then it's a dealbreaker.

    They should really take the enemy territory or spy approach with this. You would have a unique set of missions in enemy area, with the chance of being caught by the enemy while doing your tasks. This just doesn't make any logical sense. If people want to experience all 3, they can roll alts. Why do you have to solve this issue in a way that breaks the setting's immersion and believability for a lot of people?

  • eldariseldaris LondonPosts: 349Member

    I was ok with seeing players from enemy faction when questing in their areas but hated the idea ,which was launched at some point, of being able to quest together with the enemy faction players.
    It would have destroyed any sense of faction loyalty to be able to quest with some player then fight them in pvp later on.
    Not a big fan of phasing but since this system don't allows enemy players to quest together ,it's ok with me.
    Could be that they use this system because if everyone who helps killing an npc gets experience from it and you are in same phase with the enemy players,killing the same monster, both would end with xp ,which would be like questing together.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Yeah chums in pve, enemies in pvp - does not work at all.

    See the spectacular cluster***** of both tsw and rift pvp.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Anthur
    What they should do is drop this mega server bullshit and copy daocs server model of core / coop / ffa servers.

    Then the people that want faction pride roll on a core server
    And the people who want to play their orc with their wifes elf play on the coop server
    And the people who want to go around killing people in their own lands and have guild vs guild play on the ffa server.

    Everyone is happy then.

    This megaserver idea is really stupid, it doesn't work in sto, it doesn't work in tsw.
  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Eir_S
    Originally posted by baphamet funny how people pretend they just found out about this just so they can have an excuse to rage. it really does suck for people that were so misinformed to actually believe this would be a sandbox or an open pvp game.
    Bad ideas are still bad even if you don't know about them yet.


    Funny how people assume something is a bad idea because they don't like it.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • MaelwyddMaelwydd CrawleyPosts: 1,123Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by Eir_S

    Originally posted by baphamet funny how people pretend they just found out about this just so they can have an excuse to rage. it really does suck for people that were so misinformed to actually believe this would be a sandbox or an open pvp game.
    Bad ideas are still bad even if you don't know about them yet.

    Funny how people assume something is a bad idea because they don't like it.

     

    How else would you classify an idea you don't like other then bad?

  • MaelwyddMaelwydd CrawleyPosts: 1,123Member

    Problem here is, they decided to build the house out of paper. Doesn't matter how many rooms you add, how many floors, how many bathrooms...when the wind starts blowing and the rain starts falling the house becomes a soggy mess.

    They decided the 3 fatcion DAOC model was the best way to design the game and everything else is based on it and that is why no matter what they do people do not like it. Now DAOC might be a good design but for a TES MMO? IMO no, it is the wrong design.

    But they have chosen their path and they ultimately will have to live with the results, good or bad. I hope for their sake it isn't as bad as I suspect it might be.

  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member
    Originally posted by SlyLoK

    Old information.

    Questing in the other factions territory will be like leveled content from previous TES games providing more PvE content and rewards. Dont see the problem other than those that only want to go into the other factions area to gank low level players.

    WHHHIIIINNNNE - I want go to be able to explore all territories with one character! - ZOS : OK here you go have fun - WHHHIIIINNNNNE - What I really meant was that I wanted to gank lowbies! - ZOS : Not happening.

    Cant please the haters who complain about everything.

    'Haters' who as you put it 'WHHIIIINNNE' are mostly just people with opinions you don't care for.

    Why don't you engage with them without the insults?

  • immodiumimmodium ManchesterPosts: 1,578Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Maelwydd

    Problem here is, they decided to build the house out of paper. Doesn't matter how many rooms you add, how many floors, how many bathrooms...when the wind starts blowing and the rain starts falling the house becomes a soggy mess.

    They decided the 3 fatcion DAOC model was the best way to design the game and everything else is based on it and that is why no matter what they do people do not like it. Now DAOC might be a good design but for a TES MMO? IMO no, it is the wrong design.

    But they have chosen their path and they ultimately will have to live with the results, good or bad. I hope for their sake it isn't as bad as I suspect it might be.

    There is no right or wrong decision in what a TES mmo should be be.

    IMO a TES MMO should be more PvP based than PvE based.

    image
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Mael
    Actual daoc design would be a good fit for TESO.

    Some servers were 3 faction
    Some servers were guild vs guild
    Some servers were pure pve
    No instances at all
    Very important crafting
    Non instanced housing
    Huge everyone on the server raids that took half a day

    But.....
    The TESO feature list has more in common with tsw than it does daoc
    1 some sort of 3 sided pvp, we know little about, but has wooly mechanics such as guesting in a "friends" campaign
    2 lots of Instancing and phasing
    3 personal story
    4 no raids
    5 mega server
  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member

    To be honest - the unlockable enemy faction areas is the cleverest compromise they could have come up with.

    I really don't think there was any practical and likely successful way to have non-Cyrodil PvP and keep enough of what makes TES, TES.

    So I don't aree with those who don't like this compromise, but then I was myself only vocal about freedom to explore, and I respect those who see this as not nearly enough.

    If the PvE content is appropriate for the scenario of the war, then that's fine with me. If I want to fight enemy faction members I am sure Cyrodil will give me a fair crack of that particular whip.

    What remains however - as much as I like the compromise, is a lingering disbelief that Zenimax developed this ES game for so long without someone, somewhere within their team saying;

    "Hang on a minute, why are we ignoring some of the core elements of TES that the fans love so much? How will that impact our marketting? What are the comparative numbers and crossover between DAoC fans and TES fans? Couldn't we deliver for both groups preferences without game-changing compromise? Why don't we ask them before we start setting things in stone!?"

    This is a question I cannot answer... and I feel what has been said before on this thread is right - it does not bode well for as yet unknown parts of the game if the team and/or individuals who suffered this surprising level of blinkered vision are still the ones calling the big shots.

    Don't get me wrong - I am going to give the game a good tryout, and I will have my fingers tightly crossed that they pull it off as well (or even approaching as well) as the IP deserves... but I do so with the mimimum confidence necessary to purchase and play.

    Time will tell.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,281Member Uncommon
    This one is made of wierd stuff.
  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Mael
    Actual daoc design would be a good fit for TESO.

    Some servers were 3 faction
    Some servers were guild vs guild
    Some servers were pure pve
    No instances at all
    Very important crafting
    Non instanced housing
    Huge everyone on the server raids that took half a day

    But.....
    The TESO feature list has more in common with tsw than it does daoc
    1 some sort of 3 sided pvp, we know little about, but has wooly mechanics such as guesting in a "friends" campaign
    2 lots of Instancing and phasing
    3 personal story
    4 no raids
    5 mega server

    Agree, TESO really is not all that much like DAOC, has some elements of it to be sure, but it also has elements from WOW, TSW and other titles as well.

    At the end of the day, it will be it's own flavor of theme park style MMO, and as the OP pointed out, atm there's no plan to permit you to even see enemy players in PVE zones, much less attack them. (at least while leveling, perhaps the end game operates a bit differently, I haven't been following it much)

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member
    Originally posted by immodium
    Originally posted by Maelwydd

    Problem here is, they decided to build the house out of paper. Doesn't matter how many rooms you add, how many floors, how many bathrooms...when the wind starts blowing and the rain starts falling the house becomes a soggy mess.

    They decided the 3 fatcion DAOC model was the best way to design the game and everything else is based on it and that is why no matter what they do people do not like it. Now DAOC might be a good design but for a TES MMO? IMO no, it is the wrong design.

    But they have chosen their path and they ultimately will have to live with the results, good or bad. I hope for their sake it isn't as bad as I suspect it might be.

    There is no right or wrong decision in what a TES mmo should be be.

    IMO a TES MMO should be more PvP based than PvE based.

    I think arguably that there is right and wrong in designing something with an IP which has already, demonstrably and very successfully got so much right itself already.

    Anyone with common sense would, in deciding to use an IP - look to maximise the benefit the IP brings to the table. 7 million players for Skyrim? Numbers like that should make any MMO designer salivate with anticipation!

    So check out what made 7 million players play it, put the core elements of that into your MMO - only compromising where you absolutely have to because of the inherent differences between MMO and single player design limitations... and then add extras in a complementary way.

    On the way - keep your potential playerbase updated on your major design decisions - explaining why the MMO genre HAS to have certain things which TES doesn't -and how you have done your best to incorporate those things with as much TES goodness as can be fitted in the same game.

    Do not make design choices which preclude successful elements of your IP.

    THAT was a wrong decision...

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,559Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by pantheron
    ive seen so few people happy about this game, I wonder how its going to succeed. not just here. nowhere look do i see that many people happy/excited for this game. maybe its just me and who I'm around/where I frequent. I hear like 1 to 3 vocal defenders of the game, and more often than not a bunch of people not happy about its direction. this is in real life as well. 

    Because forums do not represent general gamer population, the forums are where game enthusiasts go, your average casual gamer doesn't live on the forums.

    TES will probably do fine, not great mind you but fine. 

     

     

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,474Member Uncommon
    As it should be. Glad to see they are sticking to the core design. 


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • spankybusspankybus Orlando, FLPosts: 1,154Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Horusra
    no desire to see a high level running around in my low or mid level zone from an other faction.  Seeing them do stupid emotes or jumping around acting the fool.

    Or just one-hit killing the mobs I need for quests...just to piss me off because their life in an empty prison of loserdome.

    That said, not sure if I mind. But then I have been looking at this game as TES with Co-Op play with PVP end-game. However, it would be nice if they did include a PVP server where you can see and engage each other....or I guess a setting on the mega server that would allow this. Don't see why you should provide as many different gameplay avenues to as many different potential players as possible.

     

    the last company who was this  daft at ignoring their fan base and shoveling their narrow idea of gameplay down their throat was square Enix with the initial release of Final Fantasy 14....yea, that went well.

    Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
    www.spankybus.com
    -3d Artist & Compositor
    -Writer
    -Professional Amature

  • immodiumimmodium ManchesterPosts: 1,578Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Caliburn101
    Originally posted by immodium
    Originally posted by Maelwydd

    Problem here is, they decided to build the house out of paper. Doesn't matter how many rooms you add, how many floors, how many bathrooms...when the wind starts blowing and the rain starts falling the house becomes a soggy mess.

    They decided the 3 fatcion DAOC model was the best way to design the game and everything else is based on it and that is why no matter what they do people do not like it. Now DAOC might be a good design but for a TES MMO? IMO no, it is the wrong design.

    But they have chosen their path and they ultimately will have to live with the results, good or bad. I hope for their sake it isn't as bad as I suspect it might be.

    There is no right or wrong decision in what a TES mmo should be be.

    IMO a TES MMO should be more PvP based than PvE based.

    I think arguably that there is right and wrong in designing something with an IP which has already, demonstrably and very successfully got so much right itself already.

    Anyone with common sense would, in deciding to use an IP - look to maximise the benefit the IP brings to the table. 7 million players for Skyrim? Numbers like that should make any MMO designer salivate with anticipation!

    So check out what made 7 million players play it, put the core elements of that into your MMO - only compromising where you absolutely have to because of the inherent differences between MMO and single player design limitations... and then add extras in a complementary way.

    On the way - keep your potential playerbase updated on your major design decisions - explaining why the MMO genre HAS to have certain things which TES doesn't -and how you have done your best to incorporate those things with as much TES goodness as can be fit in the same game.

    Do not make design choices which preclude successful elements of your IP.

    THAT was a wrong decision...

    I disagree.

    Take those 7 million TES players, 80% of those players are console players. So right of the bat they are choosing not to please the core of the fanbase.

    There are a lot more MMO players than TES PC players. So when deciding to enter the MMO world do you decide to please a small miniority of the TES fans interested in playing an MMO or do you try pleasing the much larger MMO audience.

    I understand that TES did get popular for it's exploration. However it's PvE is below average. Seeing as most MMO PvE is even worse I do not have high hopes for TES if they decide to make the game PvE-centric.

    I have the single player games for my PvE.

    The most sensible thing for Bethesda to do with the SP franchise is add co-op to it's next release. Seeing as it's a console franchise now it will sell like hot cakes and please the core TES fans more than ANY MMO version of TES will.

    image
  • SulaaSulaa nPosts: 1,151Member Common
    This mega-server thing and phasing is really a turn off. Well other features and design choices also don't appeal to me. Ehh The Elder Scrolls Online title/name sound great but it seems I won't be playing it since it's totally not what I expect.  Good that I know this before hand though, it will save me being disappointed and spending money on it.
  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by lizardbones   Originally posted by Eir_S Originally posted by baphamet funny how people pretend they just found out about this just so they can have an excuse to rage. it really does suck for people that were so misinformed to actually believe this would be a sandbox or an open pvp game.
    Bad ideas are still bad even if you don't know about them yet.
    Funny how people assume something is a bad idea because they don't like it.  
    How else would you classify an idea you don't like other then bad?


    I would classify them as ideas I don't like.

    I'm not sure I like the idea of no PvP in max level zones. That seems weird to me because in all the MMOs I've played, even on PvE servers walking around in enemy territory carried with it the possibility of PvP.

    If the bulk of the people playing the game get to the max level areas and it never occurs to them to miss the possibility of PvP, and they think that playing the game is a lot like playing the single player games and that's good, then it's a good idea, regardless of what I think about it.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by immodium
    Originally posted by Caliburn101 Originally posted by immodium Originally posted by Maelwydd Problem here is, they decided to build the house out of paper. Doesn't matter how many rooms you add, how many floors, how many bathrooms...when the wind starts blowing and the rain starts falling the house becomes a soggy mess. They decided the 3 fatcion DAOC model was the best way to design the game and everything else is based on it and that is why no matter what they do people do not like it. Now DAOC might be a good design but for a TES MMO? IMO no, it is the wrong design. But they have chosen their path and they ultimately will have to live with the results, good or bad. I hope for their sake it isn't as bad as I suspect it might be.
    There is no right or wrong decision in what a TES mmo should be be. IMO a TES MMO should be more PvP based than PvE based.
    I think arguably that there is right and wrong in designing something with an IP which has already, demonstrably and very successfully got so much right itself already. Anyone with common sense would, in deciding to use an IP - look to maximise the benefit the IP brings to the table. 7 million players for Skyrim? Numbers like that should make any MMO designer salivate with anticipation! So check out what made 7 million players play it, put the core elements of that into your MMO - only compromising where you absolutely have to because of the inherent differences between MMO and single player design limitations... and then add extras in a complementary way. On the way - keep your potential playerbase updated on your major design decisions - explaining why the MMO genre HAS to have certain things which TES doesn't -and how you have done your best to incorporate those things with as much TES goodness as can be fit in the same game. Do not make design choices which preclude successful elements of your IP. THAT was a wrong decision...
    I disagree.

    Take those 7 million TES players, 80% of those players are console players. So right of the bat they are choosing not to please the core of the fanbase.

    There are a lot more MMO players than TES PC players. So when deciding to enter the MMO world do you decide to please a small miniority of the TES fans interested in playing an MMO or do you try pleasing the much larger MMO audience.

    I understand that TES did get popular for it's exploration. However it's PvE is below average. Seeing as most MMO PvE is even worse I do not have high hopes for TES if they decide to make the game PvE-centric.

    I have the single player games for my PvE.

    The most sensible thing for Bethesda to do with the SP franchise is add co-op to it's next release. Seeing as it's a console franchise now it will sell like hot cakes and please the core TES fans more than ANY MMO version of TES will.


    In able to respond appropriately to your comment, I need you to link the relevant platform data...

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • immodiumimmodium ManchesterPosts: 1,578Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nitth

     

    In able to respond appropriately to your comment, I need you to link the relevant platform data...

    http://www.statisticbrain.com/skyrim-the-elder-scrolls-v-statistics/

    The data is nearly a year old.

    image
  • BetaguyBetaguy Halifax, NSPosts: 2,590Member
    Can't wait to play this, thanks for the link to all the juicey info.

    image

  • MaelwyddMaelwydd CrawleyPosts: 1,123Member
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    I think arguably that there is right and wrong in designing something with an IP which has already, demonstrably and very successfully got so much right itself already.

    Anyone with common sense would, in deciding to use an IP - look to maximise the benefit the IP brings to the table. 7 million players for Skyrim? Numbers like that should make any MMO designer salivate with anticipation!

    So check out what made 7 million players play it, put the core elements of that into your MMO - only compromising where you absolutely have to because of the inherent differences between MMO and single player design limitations... and then add extras in a complementary way.

    On the way - keep your potential playerbase updated on your major design decisions - explaining why the MMO genre HAS to have certain things which TES doesn't -and how you have done your best to incorporate those things with as much TES goodness as can be fitted in the same game.

    Do not make design choices which preclude successful elements of your IP.

    THAT was a wrong decision...

    Yeah that is what I ment when I refered to using DAOC as their base design. All the race locking, land locking, lack of exploration etc... all stems from them making the wrong descision because it prevents some of the most important features of what made the TES games so popular.

    Inherently the DOAC of model is fine (faction locks etc..), it is just the wrong model for TES.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,474Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    I think arguably that there is right and wrong in designing something with an IP which has already, demonstrably and very successfully got so much right itself already.

    Anyone with common sense would, in deciding to use an IP - look to maximise the benefit the IP brings to the table. 7 million players for Skyrim? Numbers like that should make any MMO designer salivate with anticipation!

    So check out what made 7 million players play it, put the core elements of that into your MMO - only compromising where you absolutely have to because of the inherent differences between MMO and single player design limitations... and then add extras in a complementary way.

    On the way - keep your potential playerbase updated on your major design decisions - explaining why the MMO genre HAS to have certain things which TES doesn't -and how you have done your best to incorporate those things with as much TES goodness as can be fitted in the same game.

    Do not make design choices which preclude successful elements of your IP.

    THAT was a wrong decision...

    Yeah that is what I ment when I refered to using DAOC as their base design. All the race locking, land locking, lack of exploration etc... all stems from them making the wrong descision because it prevents some of the most important features of what made the TES games so popular.

    Inherently the DOAC of model is fine (faction locks etc..), it is just the wrong model for TES.

    IMO this is way off base for one reasons. Most MMOs need some type of PvP and you only have a few options. Open world PvP everywhere like Linage 2, battle grounds like WoW or DAoC 3 faction PvP. There are lots of the first two and a lot of gamers are sick to death of the respin of the WoW model. So whats left to pick? A model that has done very well and rarely used, DAoC model. This brings something to ESO that is really needed to be a real TES game. Freedom to explore and not get attacked by players as you do so. TES was about PvE and having a player attack you when being the hero of the story would feel very unlike TES. The DAoC model is the only PvP model that gives the PURE PvE players their space but still gives PvP fans an outlet and makes ESO an option for PvPers as well. Of the options, they picked the best one for fitting TES and the best option for MMO fans as its not been done to death. Pls not another WoW clone.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


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