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[Column] General: Where Have All the Roleplayers Gone?

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Comments

  • itchmonitchmon west islip, NYPosts: 1,714Member Uncommon
    Great read and hit close to the heart. I do try to rp as much as possible in my ganes. Lotro of course is the main event for rp these days but funny enough I have found great rp in... of all places... eve.

    You have great lore in eve to build your rp story around... however you aren't really exposed highly to it... rather you have to look. I have a second. Account (paid for by buying plex on my main) that is in an rp corp and has been strictly rp for maybe 16 months. He's a minmatar sympathizer who is in exile from the amarr homeworlds for heresy.

    In other news, if you aren't married christina neither am I. Juuuust sayin.

    RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

    Currently Playing EVE, DFUW

    Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.

    Dwight D Eisenhower

    My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.

    Henry Rollins

  • thenewtthenewt Waterloo, IAPosts: 8Member

    First of all Christina, thank you so much for a great article.

    Like many who have written in reply this is a subject near and dear to me as well. As a long-time lurker and a seldom poster I am even driven to write up this response. I wish that the RP community or RPers in general were better supported by MMO developers. Yes I am in the camp who simply calls games of the genre MMOs as I think the RP of MMORPG is long since gone. Everquest, Dark Ages of Camelot, Star Wars: Galaxies, City of Heroes I have many fond memories of RP experiences in those games and it was those RP experiences and the RPers I met who kept me coming back for -years- to all of those games. But now? I play an MMO for maybe less than a month and get bored with it. For me, roleplaying is an integral part of my enjoyment.

    There is a lot of 'your mileage may vary' now. I have read a few posts extolling the virtues of TSW and Funcom but from my perspective I barely ran into a single RPer on the 'official servers'. I tried both and quickly got bored because at first glance the month or two I played it just seemed to be the same 'wasteland' of people behaving in character or RPing that many other MMOs tend to be. As even with official servers there were still many people who did not RP, and even ridiculed RP and RPers quite vehemently. The bygone days of the 'RP flag' would probably have helped with this.

    Another problem which just seems kind of general is that RP groups have become quite insular. Keeping to themselves, and are often wary or even downright hostile to 'new players' who try to join in and interact. That might be a symptom of the fact that the general MMO population is incredibly hostile towards RPers or people who play in-character.

    Official RP servers, RP flags, and naming guidelines would help somewhat I think, but those are things that most developers who are on a tight budget are unwilling or unable to provide.

     

  • FascinezFascinez Pineville, LAPosts: 12Member
    Originally posted by Maelwydd

    "For me the reason for the lack of RP is the pace of games these days.

    Up until perhaps 3 months into WOW I didn't notice a problem but since then there has been a gradual decline. Games got faster, combat got faster, queing for dungeons got faster,Levelling got faster, travel got faster...everything got faster.

    I blame a combination of designers making games not worlds, the market openning up to the casual market and the need for quick fixes, the introduction of consol PvP leets and their desire to only talk if it is something rude about someone else and the move from enjoying the journey to enjoying the endgame type gaming playstyle.

    MMO's are gloryfied whackamole timewasters for the most part and probably will continue to be so because gaming is a big industry now rather then a passionate hobby."

     

    I wholeheartedly agree.

     

     

     
  • SwiftrevoirSwiftrevoir Largo, FLPosts: 156Member

    We're here, its just that there hasn't been a very healthy environment for us to frolic in as of late.  DAoC and EQ2 were the last greats I remember having a blast RPing in.  DAoC had a much better setting for it out of the two. 

    I say look forward to The Elder Scrolls Online and Archeage now.   

  • FusionFusion VaasaPosts: 1,391Member Uncommon

    RP'ers have left the sinking boat that shouldn't even be called MMORPGs anymore, but rather 'best-revenue model online'.

    Developers (specifically those that fund them) are doing what brings the most profit in the least amount of time, they aren't games for gamers, they're products for investors.

    What started out as a great genre for the 'niche' made with love for gaming has turned into a milking machine, like a crappy chinese product that makes a quick buck. And we all know which game and it's success we have to 'blame' for the current state of the genre.

    Currently playing: -

    Waiting for: Class4.

    Dead and Buried: ESO, NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

  • BurntvetBurntvet Baltimore, MDPosts: 2,938Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fusion

    RP'ers have left the sinking boat that shouldn't even be called MMORPGs anymore, but rather 'best-revenue model online'.Developers (specifically those that fund them) are doing what brings the most profit in the least amount of time, they aren't games for gamers, they're products for investors.What started out as a great genre for the 'niche' made with love for gaming has turned into a milking machine, like a crappy chinese product that makes a quick buck. And we all know which game and it's success we have to 'blame' for the current state of the genre.

     

    MMOs are pretty much run on the "movie" model now. Big cash from the release and then move on and no thoughts on longevity. But since the ones funding MMOs these days are large companies/"entertainment executives" this should be no surprise. MMOs are not made by "game guys" anymore, and the crap results of the last 5+ years reflect that.
  • AnakamiAnakami BielefeldPosts: 103Member

    I had the best time doing RP back in the days of UO. There was awesome RP to be had and what we did not RP InGame we carried over to the server forum, where the stories continued or created new events that were then played out in the game. I still look for an experience like that in the modern day MMOs, but the games don't have many supporting mechanics anymore that encourage RPing.

    Nowadays I am already glad if the zones are designed well enough so that they create a good atmosphere, but beyond pretty graphics not much is there that would make you feel attached to the game and your character.

    Ironically in a hacknslay game like the new Neverwinter there are more RP elements than usually found, mostly in the form of background diversity, deity worship selection and you can even reroll your stats at the start. It feels like this is the pinnacle of RP and we won't see much progress anytime soon.

    Actually, going back to what was once put into these games for RPers would be considered progress compared to the standard now.

  • EhliyaEhliya Washington, DCPosts: 199Member

    As a former MUD player (Gemstone III) who has played many of the past major MMORPGS I have two thoughts about the current state of things:

    *  more recent MMORPGS do not provide tools and mechanics to encourage RP.  For example, games that don't allow you to interact with much of the surrounding game world, e.g. sit in a nearby chair, often mean that to RP you might as well be back in a text-based MUD.  You can look at original UO or SWG and see that, over time, players have less and less ability to interact with the world while the games get prettier and prettier graphically

     

    * generations have changed.  The younger players towards whom most games are now designed as an audience generally have not played old Pen and Paper or MUD games.  And to compound things modern MMORPGS make everyone expend more effort to RP given game mechanics (see above)

     

    So its really two things.  Virtual worlds have virtually disappeared and even the supposed sand boxes are full of mechanics that are not RP-friendly.  And the younger players have different expectations.

    This MAY change if a game like EQ Next turns out to fulfill its claims.  It will take the proven success of a major MMORPG reclaiming the "RPG" part of the title to shake the game companies out of their risk averse slide into pushing out one theme park after another.

     
  • YaevinduskYaevindusk Ul''dah, CAPosts: 1,537Member Uncommon

     

    I tend to find healthy RP communities in niche games.  Though I seen large amounts of RPing in GW2, WoW, FFXIV 1.0 and a few others in the past year.  These are just some examples where I've seen RP scattered all about and not just in a town area (though I haven't really partook in it much lately due to intensive research on things).

    When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member

    RP potential has slowly been weeded out over a pretty long period of time. Games like UO and SWG offered an incredible amount of RP potential while games like EQ, DAoC, and EQ2 kept taking away bits and pieces and even pushing RP'rs onto seperate servers. Many RP'rs weren't overly fond of the segregation becuase it in itself took away from the games. 

    You can only RP on this server, you can only RP in this area we have flagged for you, etc. Then couple that with rigid classes and the trinity and you end up with a very anti RP environment. You are cut off from the rest of the community since most that have stigmas about RP will avoid RP servers and RP flagged areas. 

    In a game like UO you could RP a dectective. You picked detect hidden, forensic eval, and tracking and actually do things in game that a detective would do. SWG offered something similar in the begining. Those games you would pick not only what you looked like but what you were and how you interacted with the game world. Now days its basically I'm a warrior, I'm a mage, I'm thief, I'm a healer, and this is my name and what I look like. 

    In a game like UO and SWG you could make you didn't need RP flagged areas. 

     

    You want to know where all the roleplayers have gone? They've left or simply quit RP'ing because the games you credit with providing RP support actually took away RP potential lol. Many are still out there waiting for another game like SWG and UO that can actually offer some RP potential. 

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    Originally posted by Ehliya

    As a former MUD player (Gemstone III) who has played many of the past major MMORPGS I have two thoughts about the current state of things:

    *  more recent MMORPGS do not provide tools and mechanics to encourage RP.  For example, games that don't allow you to interact with much of the surrounding game world, e.g. sit in a nearby chair, often mean that to RP you might as well be back in a text-based MUD.  You can look at original UO or SWG and see that, over time, players have less and less ability to interact with the world while the games get prettier and prettier graphically

     

    * generations have changed.  The younger players towards whom most games are now designed as an audience generally have not played old Pen and Paper or MUD games.  And to compound things modern MMORPGS make everyone expend more effort to RP given game mechanics (see above)

     

    So its really two things.  Virtual worlds have virtually disappeared and even the supposed sand boxes are full of mechanics that are not RP-friendly.  And the younger players have different expectations.

    This MAY change if a game like EQ Next turns out to fulfill its claims.  It will take the proven success of a major MMORPG reclaiming the "RPG" part of the title to shake the game companies out of their risk averse slide into pushing out one theme park after another.

     

    I agree with everything you said, but I don't have any hope for even the mighty EQNext. It's the generation problem. This generation never had to use its imagination, so its like asking them to go back to the days before cell phones. Incomprehensible.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • OlgarkOlgark BostonPosts: 319Member Uncommon

    Its not that the RP'ers have vanished from MMO's but rather the MMO's and developers have failed the RP'ers. Each succsessive mmo that is released seems to have less and less content for the true RP'er out there.

    The lack of speach bubbles in new games.

    The lack of places to go when not leveling up or farming etc.

    Lack of choice on clothes.

    Lack of emotes with animations.

    Lack of player housing where other players could enter, or you could decorate.

    Devs focus more on content and end game now to catter to the mass of players that flocked to WoW. WoW is a succsessful game, but in the end it has destroyed the MMO market and gave players a easy option with everything.

    I use to play UO and the old SWG both had massive RP communities this is because they was cattered for by the devs. Without any RP tools then player guilds based around RP will not stay long, and some of the longest running guilds in some mmo's are from the RP community.

    So this raises a question about what or why do new MMO's fail so hard upon release. Is it because they are not cattering to their long term players ie RP'ers ?

    Maybe if devs of new MMO's put into place some decent RP tools into the games they make either in development or shortly after release then maybe the new games would have a healthier player community and one that stayed with the game.

    image

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member

    Actions speak louder than words. I think what the column is meant to touch (if it dropped its elitistic attitude): "Why is roleplaying nowadays more action-oriented than text-oriented and why is the diversity among roleplayers so low compared what it used to be?".

     

    A person not talking a single word and soloing every bit of content  on his warrior to max level in strife for maximum power, is still very much roleplaying a warrior striving to become as powerful possible in a given world.  He is unlikely a real warrior in real life, so he is indeed playing a fictitious role in a role-playing game. He roleplays through his actions rather than his words.

     

    You may find it to be problematic if that is the role and the manner in which the grand majority are roleplaying, I can agree with that. However, you have to admit it is actual roleplaying. 

     

  • OnomasOnomas Rock Hill, SCPosts: 1,128Member Uncommon
    Roleplayers all died off when game companies started to transform MMORPG's into console rpgs and made everything solo based. Kind of no point to interact with your fellow gamers when people zip through a story line in 4 hrs, hit make level in 3, and can defeat even the hardest "boss" single handed. I get more feel from old pc rpg's like D&D than i do the newer mmorpg's that are designed to hold up for a few weeks and then boredom sets in because no social apsect, player created content, or exploration was thought upon while making the games.
  • JacxolopeJacxolope Jackson, MIPosts: 924Member
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

    Actions speak louder than words. I think what the column is meant to touch (if it dropped its elitistic attitude): "Why is roleplaying nowadays more action-oriented than text-oriented and why is the diversity among roleplayers so low compared what it used to be?".

     

    A person not talking a single word and soloing every bit of content  on his warrior to max level in strife for maximum power, is still very much roleplaying a warrior striving to become as powerful possible in a given world.  He is unlikely a real warrior in real life, so he is indeed playing a fictitious role in a role-playing game. He roleplays through his actions rather than his words.

     

    You may find it to be problematic if that is the role and the manner in which the grand majority are roleplaying, I can agree with that. However, you have to admit it is actual roleplaying. 

     

    No. That would be meta-gaming.

    Personally I am a meta-gamer for the most part and never "RP" in a Computer game. I am also a tabletop gamer who does RP in pen and paper games whenever I get around to playing them.

    -That said, RPers really add depth to a game in the way of lore and providing a living, breathing world (although again, I do not RP). They bring a diversity which adds to the overall world. But without "worlds" and with more linear games 'on rails' the game mechanics force meta-gaming and the rigidness makes it impossible (or nearly) to proper RP.

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by Jacxolope
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

    Actions speak louder than words. I think what the column is meant to touch (if it dropped its elitistic attitude): "Why is roleplaying nowadays more action-oriented than text-oriented and why is the diversity among roleplayers so low compared what it used to be?".

     

    A person not talking a single word and soloing every bit of content  on his warrior to max level in strife for maximum power, is still very much roleplaying a warrior striving to become as powerful possible in a given world.  He is unlikely a real warrior in real life, so he is indeed playing a fictitious role in a role-playing game. He roleplays through his actions rather than his words.

     

    You may find it to be problematic if that is the role and the manner in which the grand majority are roleplaying, I can agree with that. However, you have to admit it is actual roleplaying. 

     

    No. That would be meta-gaming.

    Personally I am a meta-gamer for the most part and never "RP" in a Computer game. I am also a tabletop gamer who does RP in pen and paper games whenever I get around to playing them.

    -That said, RPers really add depth to a game in the way of lore and providing a living, breathing world (although again, I do not RP). They bring a diversity which adds to the overall world. But without "worlds" and with more linear games 'on rails' the game mechanics force meta-gaming and the rigidness makes it impossible (or nearly) to proper RP.

    Meta-gaming does not necessarely exclude roleplaying. Isn't a "Warrior trying to become as powerful as possible" a role one plays?

    Isn't it a fictitious role? A role can be played through actions, heck the stum movies of the old are a testament to that. 

     

     

  • JacxolopeJacxolope Jackson, MIPosts: 924Member
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Jacxolope
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

    Actions speak louder than words. I think what the column is meant to touch (if it dropped its elitistic attitude): "Why is roleplaying nowadays more action-oriented than text-oriented and why is the diversity among roleplayers so low compared what it used to be?".

     

    A person not talking a single word and soloing every bit of content  on his warrior to max level in strife for maximum power, is still very much roleplaying a warrior striving to become as powerful possible in a given world.  He is unlikely a real warrior in real life, so he is indeed playing a fictitious role in a role-playing game. He roleplays through his actions rather than his words.

     

    You may find it to be problematic if that is the role and the manner in which the grand majority are roleplaying, I can agree with that. However, you have to admit it is actual roleplaying. 

     

    No. That would be meta-gaming.

    Personally I am a meta-gamer for the most part and never "RP" in a Computer game. I am also a tabletop gamer who does RP in pen and paper games whenever I get around to playing them.

    -That said, RPers really add depth to a game in the way of lore and providing a living, breathing world (although again, I do not RP). They bring a diversity which adds to the overall world. But without "worlds" and with more linear games 'on rails' the game mechanics force meta-gaming and the rigidness makes it impossible (or nearly) to proper RP.

    Meta-gaming does not necessarely exclude roleplaying. Isn't a "Warrior trying to become as powerful as possible" a role one plays?

    Isn't it a fictitious role? A role can be played through actions, heck the stum movies of the old are a testament to that. 

     

     

    Sure, but not in the context they are speaking.

    To "RP" you would generally need many non combat activities as well. it could be argued that every PC game of every genre would qualify as RP friendly- But it isnt so. I could roleplay a racecar driver in some online racing game, or roleplay a merc in some FPS BUT since those ga,mes are only really based around 1 path (racing and combat respectfully) then my options are pretty much the same as everyones.

    -The RP they are talking about requires very free and open game mechanics. A more open world approach. For instance, one might RP something totally non combat (like house building/carpentry/traveling merchant) but effect the world as much or more than someone who is combat-centric. 

    You could play a combat class, min/max and still RP but you would be need a way to establish your toons identity through existing game mechanics as oppsed to trying to work around game mechanics.

    Games that have a linear combat-centric "gated" feel cannot be RP'd in to any greater affect than RPing in a NASCAR game. 

    -I see what you are saying but they are refering to something different. They actually take the "role" of their Toon and often even gimp them or give them 'negatives' for RP purpouses. To an RPer, the flair and the uniqueness is what is important. Playing a role, to the fullest, in character- having a reputation (for good or ill) and efffecting the virtual world.

  • ExcessionExcession NottinghamPosts: 367Member Uncommon

    Roleplayers have not gone anywhere.

    Most of the mmoRPGs released over the last few years, have been missing the RPG elements though.

     

    A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by Jacxolope
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    (...)

    Meta-gaming does not necessarely exclude roleplaying. Isn't a "Warrior trying to become as powerful as possible" a role one plays?

    Isn't it a fictitious role? A role can be played through actions, heck the stum movies of the old are a testament to that. 

     

     

    Sure, but not in the context they are speaking.

    To "RP" you would generally need many non combat activities as well. it could be argued that every PC game of every genre would qualify as RP friendly- But it isnt so. I could roleplay a racecar driver in some online racing game, or roleplay a merc in some FPS BUT since those ga,mes are only really based around 1 path (racing and combat respectfully) then my options are pretty much the same as everyones.

    -The RP they are talking about requires very free and open game mechanics. A more open world approach. For instance, one might RP something totally non combat (like house building/carpentry/traveling merchant) but effect the world as much or more than someone who is combat-centric. 

    You could play a combat class, min/max and still RP but you would be need a way to establish your toons identity through existing game mechanics as oppsed to trying to work around game mechanics.

    Games that have a linear combat-centric "gated" feel cannot be RP'd in to any greater affect than RPing in a NASCAR game. 

    -I see what you are saying but they are refering to something different. They actually take the "role" of their Toon and often even gimp them or give them 'negatives' for RP purpouses. To an RPer, the flair and the uniqueness is what is important. Playing a role, to the fullest, in character- having a reputation (for good or ill) and efffecting the virtual world.

    Which is precisely why I am suggesting that what the column is really meant to touch is: " "Why is roleplaying nowadays more action-oriented than text-oriented and why is the diversity among roleplayers so low compared what it used to be?".

    I oppose their attempts to steal the term "roleplaying", which they seem to succesfully have done to the extent that many people don't even reflect about it. 

    The term "roleplaying" has a wide definition, then at some point some people started to roleplay in specific manner such as the one you describe and then some of them at some point attempted to steal the term. Which will never truly succeed due to that "roleplaying" is used outside of PC games or videogames altogether. Eventually a few, at least those who care to look, will realize that the emperor is naked. 

    A power-aiming warrior without scruples would of course not gimp their character knowingly, but that doesn't mean that it isn't roleplaying. The only problem would be that far too many people in a game choose the same role to roleplay.

    A person roleplaying a merchant trying to become as rich as possible, is a form of non-combat roleplaying. It may be very unique depending on server. I assume though that it isn't unique in the "right way" to please certain people.

    I am assuming that by "flair" you mean "3. Distinctive elegance or style: served us with flair.", which is surprising since that would exclude many roles such as roleplaying a character such as Sandor or Gregor Clegane. 

  • cybertruckercybertrucker Pensacola, FLPosts: 1,119Member

    Doest thou mother know thy wherest  her drapes?

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,757Member Uncommon

    RP has seen better days? It died years ago.

    Now days you need to be in a RP guild to see any roleplaying. Time was when you only had to be on the official roleplay server. Before that you could even be on the unofficial RP server and still you could bump into players roleplaying.

    I too think that Lotro was the last MMO to have RP support built into the game from launch. I shall never forget discussing taters, the weather and strange foreigners in the Shire, I was a Dwarf myself and rather suspect to the locals. That game launched six years ago, I think that fact alone tells the declining story of roleplaying in MMO’s.

    So in guilds roleplaying lives on, outside of that it has gone from MMO’s.

  • toxicmangotoxicmango San Francisco, CAPosts: 92Member Uncommon

    RP has taken on connotations certainly in some games of incompetent weak players or players that inexplicably gimp their character.

    So long as RP has no perceived upside to the rest of the players, they will look down on it.  And in turn, the RP community has a tendency to turn inward and become elitist and defensive.  

    The problem is developers have not rewarded RP in any significant manner compared to the rewards doled out to non-roleplayers.  If for example, important NPC characters in a game paid attention to roleplayers and for example gave out preferential missions or quests to them (assuming of course the RP characters are not hopelessly weak) instead of the non-RPer that knows nothing of the lore, then suddenly RP would have reward and value to the wider community.  This requires actually human controlled NPC characters and events, not just the usual robotic automated quest givers that pass for NPCs these days.  

    Now of course in such a case one might expect to see suddenly people bandwagoning and pretending an interest in RP in order to get access to perceived exclusive content.  That could be worked around for example by having the good stuff only open to those that repeatedly and consistently RP rather than just obvious angling for reward or loot.

     

    The rationale is simple: just as one might expect tough bosses to be only open to those that have fought through lesser challenges, or elite crafting recipes to be open only to those that have worked up their craft skills, there should be RP related content that is only open to those that put in the effort for RP.  

    Without such actual concrete rewards (and rewards may be material items or alternatively the ability to make an impact on the world or socialize with major NPCs), RP will be consigned to the realm of useless side features that the vast majority of people will not care about.  

  • Po_ggPo_gg Twigwarren, WestfarthingPosts: 2,714Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by toxicmango

    The problem is developers have not rewarded RP in any significant manner compared to the rewards doled out to non-roleplayers.

    ...

    Now of course in such a case one might expect to see suddenly people bandwagoning and pretending an interest in RP in order to get access to perceived exclusive content.

    Sorry, but ... just rather not, please :)

    Rp is not about rewards, it's about having fun. I'm not saying there must be no reward at all, if it's by the rp'ers (like winning a players-hosted race with prizes, or being among the first 3 bands on Weatherstock), but if you put in-game, dev-written rewards, exactly that wil happen what you wrote: wiki pages, guides, and people bandwagoning to get the reward.

    I think this is in connection with the trend a fellow poster wrote before, the playerbase changed in the last couple of years and since they don't know anything about roleplay, obviously they don't care about it in games. If you want to get them into roleplay, there are better ways, like player-held events, festivals, etc. Putting in a reward won't change their attitude I think...

     

    Once we listened a band's practice in the Pony, a LotRO-fresh buddy arrived, it went something like this on Ts: what's this? The music system, they can form a band and play together. What's the point? What do you mean? It's fun. Lol, seriously, what did they get, some deed or title? Cheers, applaud... By your meaning, nothing. Man, that's a waste of time... and you, why are you sitting here? Ok, if you don't mind I'll mute you for a few minutes :)

  • toxicmangotoxicmango San Francisco, CAPosts: 92Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Po_gg
    Originally posted by toxicmango

    The problem is developers have not rewarded RP in any significant manner compared to the rewards doled out to non-roleplayers.

    ...

    Now of course in such a case one might expect to see suddenly people bandwagoning and pretending an interest in RP in order to get access to perceived exclusive content.

    Sorry, but ... just rather not, please :)

    Rp is not about rewards, it's about having fun. I'm not saying there must be no reward at all, if it's by the rp'ers (like winning a players-hosted race with prizes, or being among the first 3 bands on Weatherstock), but if you put in-game, dev-written rewards, exactly that wil happen what you wrote: wiki pages, guides, and people bandwagoning to get the reward.

    I think this is in connection with the trend a fellow poster wrote before, the playerbase changed in the last couple of years and since they don't know anything about roleplay, obviously they don't care about it in games. If you want to get them into roleplay, there are better ways, like player-held events, festivals, etc. Putting in a reward won't change their attitude I think...

     

    Once we listened a band's practice in the Pony, a LotRO-fresh buddy arrived, it went something like this on Ts: what's this? The music system, they can form a band and play together. What's the point? What do you mean? It's fun. Lol, seriously, what did they get, some deed or title? Cheers, applaud... By your meaning, nothing. Man, that's a waste of time... and you, why are you sitting here? Ok, if you don't mind I'll mute you for a few minutes :)

    Wikis don't work for live events or event arcs.   

    Rewards will change things.  You seem to be mistaken to think rewards necessarily need to be material items or other forms of loot.  The ability to impact the game world or official recognition by an important NPC character is also a form of reward.  Right now RP is looked down upon precisely because it is seen as a pointless activity that has no possibility of achieving anything or impacting anything.  It is seen as irrelevant, and it creates the further disconnect if RPers roleplay but lack the actual ability compared to other kinds of players to actually fight or back up their roleplay with actual performance.  Incestuous RP groups that just end up RPing among themselves, disconnected from the rest of the world's players, do not encourage new players to take up RP.  It just gives the impression of a group of weird elitist people playing pretend or deluding themselves into feeling relevant.

    If live event quests were preferentially given to the RP warrior that could interact appropriately with the king and his nobles, and who demonstrated loyalty to the kingdom and knowledge of the lore, over the tricked out combat monster that can't string together articulate sentences, then suddenly people would take more interest in the lore.  

    Without incentive, you will never attract people to an activity save for the few elitist die-hards.  And these are the wrong sort of people to attract more people to an activity precisely because they all too often turn into a defensive closed circle unwelcoming of newcomers, as so clearly evidenced in the above anecdote.  

    When there is perceived relevance, then people will pay attention.  As I wrote above, the issue of obvious bandwagoning can be avoided by ensuring the good content goes only to for example good regular RPers.  The aforementioned inarticulate combat monster that slaughtered anybody and cared about nothing other than loot suddenly having a change of heart and pledging loyalty to the kingdom should have to slog through stuff to show whether they are genuine, and certainly shouldn't be given equal preference to somebody that has consistently shown loyalty to the kingdom throughout their entire career.

    RP is no different from any other area such as crafting.  If crafting had no payoff whatsoever, how many people would genuinely do it for the love of making things?  It is a false dichotomy to think that somehow an activity is not genuine or good if it involves actual gain.  People do things in the real world because they enjoy it but also often because it at the same time they make gain in some fashion, whether this be monetary gain or improved health and fitness.  Having RP that yields rewards is no different from crafting that proves rewarding.

  • Po_ggPo_gg Twigwarren, WestfarthingPosts: 2,714Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by toxicmango

    You seem to be mistaken to think rewards necessarily need to be material items or other forms of loot.

    True, I ment that, but only because that's the reality sadly. What you wrote sounds nice, but also would need lots of development work and resources from the devs, and not even only one time. Based on the decreasing % of players who like to rp among the widening playerbase it's unlikely that kinda development work will happen in the near future. Quite the opposite, recent games won't even care about emotes, which are maybe the cheapest method you can give to rp players.

    When TSW announced Albion (and later Crusade) it was received with so heavily welcome for the same reason. It doesn't give much, only a scene where you can rp and some tools to help you with it, but even that was massively more than players get in other games.

    You visioned basically whole story archs and systems created around roleplay. I agree, that would be awesome. But there's not much chance we will see that happening in any game...

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