Well I'm back to wanting to skip this title altogether. I always said "phasing" would be an issue for those seeking immersion. Sure, if you can't PvP there's not much sense in seeing players from other factions, but how the HELL does making them not exist make up for it?
Stupid as fuck. "Mega server" was just a lame buzzword all along.
How do you mean immersion?
Well, myself personally? I don't care for OWPVP, but it's immersive. Fact is, if you enter an enemy faction, you should meet with resistance. It's realistic. It's the whole idea behind the word "enemy". Now, not only are they removing the danger the other players pose, but they're making them invisible too.
This is an even worse idea than "flagging", and that was pretty bad. My friend who plays for the lore and the idea of a sandbox world has decided to simply pass on ESO altogether. Now she knows how KOTOR fans felt when SWTOR was released.
I agree.. This is just stupid. When I go to an ememy faction, I don't want them to take me in with open arms. Sounds like a hippie commune.
"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone."
Expect more of this stuff as developers seek ways to run more cost effective.I assume they are worried about having too many players all in the same zone at the same time,same area.Espcecially if it is end game material,then eventually everyone would be at the same place.
Developers saw what GW2 did and saw it was accepted ,so now many more games will try to implement ways to have empty worlds and just phase in what you need.
I am still waiting for games to make the proper amount of factions.let alone what they do with the 2 or 3 they have been giving us.What is the fewest factions you could possibly have for pvp 2?Well games are giving you the absolute bare minimum for effort.
Gamers need to quit throwing themselves at every new game,start demanding a better effort from devs by telling them and not supporting them until they do.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Why is "flagging" a bad idea? Just because you choose not to go toe to toe with every enemy invader, doesn't mean you cannot still play your character with realm pride. Not everybody in real life is a military soldier. Those players who want to risk coming into enemy territory must risk getting killed by that factions "protecters"
Also, the NPC quest givers in the enemy lands can give quests out, but speak to the "enemy" players combatitively and/or disrespectfully. Let them know that they are not welcome in the enemy lands. But still allow them to experience the lands at their own risk.
Flagging or a pvp switch can certainly work well if it is implemented properly. The problem is that most current gaming designers are not listening to the gaming community enough. Too many of these guys try to re-invent the wheel, instead of taking the best parts of previous games and implementing them into their current or future game. Most gamers loved DAOC 3 faction pvp. They also loved WOW Vanilla pvp, where groups of Horde or Alliance had great invasions into enemy lands. But to avoid ganking, a pvp switch must be part of the picture.
funny how people pretend they just found out about this just so they can have an excuse to rage.
it really does suck for people that were so misinformed to actually believe this would be a sandbox or an open pvp game.
Blame the IP choice lol. Players expect freedom to explore and be what they want from TES games, its pretty much been a staple for all 3 of the most successful TES games. There are a large number of things in this game that are going to make many TES fans unhappy.
Expect more of this stuff as developers seek ways to run more cost effective.I assume they are worried about having too many players all in the same zone at the same time,same area.Espcecially if it is end game material,then eventually everyone would be at the same place.
Developers saw what GW2 did and saw it was accepted ,so now many more games will try to implement ways to have empty worlds and just phase in what you need.
I am still waiting for games to make the proper amount of factions.let alone what they do with the 2 or 3 they have been giving us.What is the fewest factions you could possibly have for pvp 2?Well games are giving you the absolute bare minimum for effort.
Gamers need to quit throwing themselves at every new game,start demanding a better effort from devs by telling them and not supporting them until they do.
I agree with your post. It seems like the current and future mmorpgs have been made as if the technology has waned. Every new game being developed is instanced and phased to death. Gamers have been begging for a true, open world game forever, yet not one developer can manage this. Look at SWTOR. Where is the "Star" "Wars" in this game? I still can't get over how bad they messed that game up. When I first read that there was going to be another Star Wars MMORPG, i pictured an open world game with several planets, and players would be able to fly their own ships to them. But what we got was a complete mess. I guarantee that if the developers actually spoke to their fans, they would have gotten a majority of gamers who would have wanted mainly what I just described for a Star Wars MMORPG.
We already know this, that is why it didnt quell TES fan anger because it wasnt want they were wanting, just like 1st person didnt do it. Their attempt, and it WAS an attempt (even stated by them at PAX), failed. They missed the majority of their target audience with this IP by using the DaoC model of closed factions.
Quick, send in the same 4 people that will say the same things they always say even though Zenimax themselves address this worry publicly. They were not targetting the extremely low quantity of diehard DaoC players, they want the TES fanbase, and they dont understand why they are so upset. Sure sign of a future full of trouble for a game when the makers are that disconnected from reality.
There is a huge difference in fighting for a failed game design such as first person v iew and being upset over a game mechanic that makes zero sense. I told you all Megaserver was just a load of crap and would end up ruining any sort of immersion or community aspect of a MMORPG.
I can see the compromise in allowing players to play in alternate faction areas after you reach max level. I don't agree with it, but I can see it being a middle ground. What I don't get it not being able to even see opposing players as if they never existed. You can invade their faction locked areas, but you can't see them? If you can slaighter all of their NPC's, then wouldn't the conflict between your factions be rather short lived? None of it makes any logical sense. They are just adding random crap to their game to try and make people happy who want to see all of the lands. When what they should have done in the first place was allow for any player to play any race, without faction limitations. Why can't we choose our factions after we are more comfortable with our characters? Why do we even have to choose a faction in the first place? It should be optional. This allows all players to travel everywhere and only the people who want to PvP will choose to join a faction.
This whole megaserver BS is going to destroy good MMORPG's. I understand that it makes player trafficking easier. Such as population imbalance and server population issues. It makes queueing for battlegrounds quicker and makes the world feel more alive. That's all fine and dandy, and I really get that those are positive things. However, the negatives really destroy the concept of MMORPG at the heart. Communities are scattered between phases, layers and instances. You can do something special on instance 207, but the complete opposite happens on instance 88, which really makes doing something quite meaningless. You aren't really changing the world, or the community, because you are just one of potentially millions of gamers, and only your closest friends and guildmates even have a clue who you are.
I think these developers are just too focuses on making everything so convenient for everyone. They are losing the RPG in MMORPG for $$$. The most frustrating thing is, they know there are people like me who are becoming more upset over time. They simply don't care, because community, role playing, immersion and hard work isn't what their target audience wants. Their target audience wants simple, convenient, easy and instant gratification. I personally don't get it, and probably never will.
This adds more suspense actually. Not knowing the enemy face to face, no communication. Why would you wanna play / group up with other alliance players? Should you have friends over there, well it happens. If you're so concerned about it then agree on playing the same alliance.
This is a 3 faction in war game. That's the plan. Were it otherwise sure.....but simple logic says No grouping with enemy alliance members, unless they are double agents and working for you
Yeah this clarification actually rekindled my interest in the game. Having other factions running around in your home area freely when there is open war would have ruined the game for me. Seems like a good compromise to let people see everything in PvE with one faction.
Originally posted by tkreep I know why they are making an instanced version of each faction land because their "MEGA"server is not as "MEGA" as they want people to believe lol.
Reminds me of Sega's "Blast Processing" in the 16-bit console wars. It's just an empty buzzword.
"Hey gamers, how many of those other MMO's let you play with the entire playerbase on one server??"
Reality: 2 thirds of them are in other instances, or phased as though they're in separate channels, thus the term is utterly pointless, but watch and see... staunch ESO supporters will put it on the list of good features or innovations when its neither.
Now she knows how KOTOR fans felt when SWTOR was released.
yep, TESO seems to run a similar course, the only difference is that with TOR there was a huge hype with only a few voices of "this won't be KotOR" and only flopped after the first few months (I have 2 boxes...).
With TESO on the other hand, pretty much everyone's dissatisfied, both ES fans and the (handful of ) DAoC fans, for different reasons ofc.
So far I heard / red positive toned "waiting for it" statements only from the middle-ground mmo players, who are not DAoC-ers but like some pvp, and not ES-ers either except maybe played a bit Skyrim or Oblivion. I admit I envy them a bit sometimes, it'd be nice to look on TESO without any expectations, too bad I'm an ES fan since Arena...
Now I think teso probably wont be nothing more than fail mmo eso rip off that has to milk as much money as possible before everyone realize it sucks ... I dont want to play anything like swotr again and I DONT really care about story in mmorpgs and I am not willing to play hundered of hours of story to realize, theres nothing more than that ..
So when exactly mmorpgs turned to be more about story than about big living world?
Originally posted by tkreep I know why they are making an instanced version of each faction land because their "MEGA"server is not as "MEGA" as they want people to believe lol.
Reminds me of Sega's "Blast Processing" in the 16-bit console wars. It's just an empty buzzword.
"Hey gamers, how many of those other MMO's let you play with the entire playerbase on one server??"
Reality: 2 thirds of them are in other instances, or phased as though they're in separate channels, thus the term is utterly pointless, but watch and see... staunch ESO supporters will put it on the list of good features or innovations when its neither.
in other games with seperate severs you get to play with 1/10, 1/20, 1/50, the population. how is playing with 1/3 worse?
Much crying about nothing. What would you do if you could see the other faction and unable to PvP. /wave?
Why yes actually, I would like to be able to do that. Talk about immersion breaker when you are questing around in another person's zone and they literally don't even seem to exist. Perhaps it isn't for you and you don't care, but I do.
Originally posted by tkreep I know why they are making an instanced version of each faction land because their "MEGA"server is not as "MEGA" as they want people to believe lol.
Reminds me of Sega's "Blast Processing" in the 16-bit console wars. It's just an empty buzzword.
"Hey gamers, how many of those other MMO's let you play with the entire playerbase on one server??"
Reality: 2 thirds of them are in other instances, or phased as though they're in separate channels, thus the term is utterly pointless, but watch and see... staunch ESO supporters will put it on the list of good features or innovations when its neither.
in other games with seperate severs you get to play with 1/10, 1/20, 1/50, the population. how is playing with 1/3 worse?
You're right, but it's not really 1/3, not when you factor in all the phasing on top of the faction invisibility. How many people in an area will you actually see and be able to play with?
I think the devs themselves stated, this is a more a multiplayer ESO than an MMORPG. Of course, then there's still the matter of being on the same instance of a questline if you don't want your friends to be invisible too. It's a mess.
"Come play on our MEGA server and don't read that fine print"
This gets silly. I liked the system how it was in DAoC with seperated PvE realms. So the first approach from TESO which was more or less the same was ok for me.
But this very "artificial" new feature that you can visit the zones of other alliances only at max level and you only see members of your alliance there is ... yeah ... just too artifical imo. It breaks immersion and doesn't feel right at all.
If you want to open every realm for everyone why not just put in a pvp flagging option then ?
I like this and I am a very big PVper, but the fact that I will lvl to max as fast as possible to get to the other zones would be bad if there was pvp. I would be able to kill all the lower lvl guys and grief, just like in WOW where griefers would kill players then camp the body.
It is a great way to keep pvp in the pvp only area and let players play the game.
Comments
I agree.. This is just stupid. When I go to an ememy faction, I don't want them to take me in with open arms. Sounds like a hippie commune.
"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone."
funny how people pretend they just found out about this just so they can have an excuse to rage.
it really does suck for people that were so misinformed to actually believe this would be a sandbox or an open pvp game.
Expect more of this stuff as developers seek ways to run more cost effective.I assume they are worried about having too many players all in the same zone at the same time,same area.Espcecially if it is end game material,then eventually everyone would be at the same place.
Developers saw what GW2 did and saw it was accepted ,so now many more games will try to implement ways to have empty worlds and just phase in what you need.
I am still waiting for games to make the proper amount of factions.let alone what they do with the 2 or 3 they have been giving us.What is the fewest factions you could possibly have for pvp 2?Well games are giving you the absolute bare minimum for effort.
Gamers need to quit throwing themselves at every new game,start demanding a better effort from devs by telling them and not supporting them until they do.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Why is "flagging" a bad idea? Just because you choose not to go toe to toe with every enemy invader, doesn't mean you cannot still play your character with realm pride. Not everybody in real life is a military soldier. Those players who want to risk coming into enemy territory must risk getting killed by that factions "protecters"
Also, the NPC quest givers in the enemy lands can give quests out, but speak to the "enemy" players combatitively and/or disrespectfully. Let them know that they are not welcome in the enemy lands. But still allow them to experience the lands at their own risk.
Flagging or a pvp switch can certainly work well if it is implemented properly. The problem is that most current gaming designers are not listening to the gaming community enough. Too many of these guys try to re-invent the wheel, instead of taking the best parts of previous games and implementing them into their current or future game. Most gamers loved DAOC 3 faction pvp. They also loved WOW Vanilla pvp, where groups of Horde or Alliance had great invasions into enemy lands. But to avoid ganking, a pvp switch must be part of the picture.
This has been talked about before it was either zones be locked or this.
I prefer them locked since it's more logical since at war... but i guess the whiners about 1 character to explore cried loud enough to do... this.
"Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied."
^MMORPG.com
Blame the IP choice lol. Players expect freedom to explore and be what they want from TES games, its pretty much been a staple for all 3 of the most successful TES games. There are a large number of things in this game that are going to make many TES fans unhappy.
Bad ideas are still bad even if you don't know about them yet.
I agree with your post. It seems like the current and future mmorpgs have been made as if the technology has waned. Every new game being developed is instanced and phased to death. Gamers have been begging for a true, open world game forever, yet not one developer can manage this. Look at SWTOR. Where is the "Star" "Wars" in this game? I still can't get over how bad they messed that game up. When I first read that there was going to be another Star Wars MMORPG, i pictured an open world game with several planets, and players would be able to fly their own ships to them. But what we got was a complete mess. I guarantee that if the developers actually spoke to their fans, they would have gotten a majority of gamers who would have wanted mainly what I just described for a Star Wars MMORPG.
There is a huge difference in fighting for a failed game design such as first person v iew and being upset over a game mechanic that makes zero sense. I told you all Megaserver was just a load of crap and would end up ruining any sort of immersion or community aspect of a MMORPG.
I can see the compromise in allowing players to play in alternate faction areas after you reach max level. I don't agree with it, but I can see it being a middle ground. What I don't get it not being able to even see opposing players as if they never existed. You can invade their faction locked areas, but you can't see them? If you can slaighter all of their NPC's, then wouldn't the conflict between your factions be rather short lived? None of it makes any logical sense. They are just adding random crap to their game to try and make people happy who want to see all of the lands. When what they should have done in the first place was allow for any player to play any race, without faction limitations. Why can't we choose our factions after we are more comfortable with our characters? Why do we even have to choose a faction in the first place? It should be optional. This allows all players to travel everywhere and only the people who want to PvP will choose to join a faction.
This whole megaserver BS is going to destroy good MMORPG's. I understand that it makes player trafficking easier. Such as population imbalance and server population issues. It makes queueing for battlegrounds quicker and makes the world feel more alive. That's all fine and dandy, and I really get that those are positive things. However, the negatives really destroy the concept of MMORPG at the heart. Communities are scattered between phases, layers and instances. You can do something special on instance 207, but the complete opposite happens on instance 88, which really makes doing something quite meaningless. You aren't really changing the world, or the community, because you are just one of potentially millions of gamers, and only your closest friends and guildmates even have a clue who you are.
I think these developers are just too focuses on making everything so convenient for everyone. They are losing the RPG in MMORPG for $$$. The most frustrating thing is, they know there are people like me who are becoming more upset over time. They simply don't care, because community, role playing, immersion and hard work isn't what their target audience wants. Their target audience wants simple, convenient, easy and instant gratification. I personally don't get it, and probably never will.
I like it, if WoW was like this I might still be playing it.
Yeah this clarification actually rekindled my interest in the game. Having other factions running around in your home area freely when there is open war would have ruined the game for me. Seems like a good compromise to let people see everything in PvE with one faction.
Reminds me of Sega's "Blast Processing" in the 16-bit console wars. It's just an empty buzzword.
"Hey gamers, how many of those other MMO's let you play with the entire playerbase on one server??"
Reality: 2 thirds of them are in other instances, or phased as though they're in separate channels, thus the term is utterly pointless, but watch and see... staunch ESO supporters will put it on the list of good features or innovations when its neither.
Much crying about nothing. What would you do if you could see the other faction and unable to PvP. /wave?
the point
your head
This stupid, messed up system is the result of crying about something ELSE.
yep, TESO seems to run a similar course, the only difference is that with TOR there was a huge hype with only a few voices of "this won't be KotOR" and only flopped after the first few months (I have 2 boxes...).
With TESO on the other hand, pretty much everyone's dissatisfied, both ES fans and the (handful of
) DAoC fans, for different reasons ofc.
So far I heard / red positive toned "waiting for it" statements only from the middle-ground mmo players, who are not DAoC-ers but like some pvp, and not ES-ers either except maybe played a bit Skyrim or Oblivion. I admit I envy them a bit sometimes, it'd be nice to look on TESO without any expectations, too bad I'm an ES fan since Arena...
Really?
Now I think teso probably wont be nothing more than fail mmo eso rip off that has to milk as much money as possible before everyone realize it sucks ... I dont want to play anything like swotr again and I DONT really care about story in mmorpgs and I am not willing to play hundered of hours of story to realize, theres nothing more than that ..
So when exactly mmorpgs turned to be more about story than about big living world?
Nah thanks.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
in other games with seperate severs you get to play with 1/10, 1/20, 1/50, the population. how is playing with 1/3 worse?
Why yes actually, I would like to be able to do that.
Talk about immersion breaker when you are questing around in another person's zone and they literally don't even seem to exist. Perhaps it isn't for you and you don't care, but I do.
You're right, but it's not really 1/3, not when you factor in all the phasing on top of the faction invisibility. How many people in an area will you actually see and be able to play with?
I think the devs themselves stated, this is a more a multiplayer ESO than an MMORPG. Of course, then there's still the matter of being on the same instance of a questline if you don't want your friends to be invisible too. It's a mess.
"Come play on our MEGA server and don't read that fine print"
This gets silly. I liked the system how it was in DAoC with seperated PvE realms. So the first approach from TESO which was more or less the same was ok for me.
But this very "artificial" new feature that you can visit the zones of other alliances only at max level and you only see members of your alliance there is ... yeah ... just too artifical imo. It breaks immersion and doesn't feel right at all.
If you want to open every realm for everyone why not just put in a pvp flagging option then ?
I like this and I am a very big PVper, but the fact that I will lvl to max as fast as possible to get to the other zones would be bad if there was pvp. I would be able to kill all the lower lvl guys and grief, just like in WOW where griefers would kill players then camp the body.
It is a great way to keep pvp in the pvp only area and let players play the game.