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To: the old df players....

chaintmchaintm Chicago, ILPosts: 972Member
Compairing this to the previous is it better? how are the hacks etc? Bad, curious if this is worth re-visiting in the new version. Are you enjoying it? Is the tedious parts, marcros? I read a bit on those, seems only mining macro's, the overall feel thou, you like it or kinda like "it's improved but more of the same really". Just want to read some honest opinions, IE not flamebait :P

"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"

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Comments

  • BadaboomBadaboom Moose Jaw, SKPosts: 2,380Member

    UW is vastly superior in every way.  The grind in df1 was the worst in any game that I have ever played.  Your character needed to good at a bunch of thingS to be pvp viable and it took a long time to get there.  Df1 went through a evolution and did improve.  AV is still banning the hackers and now they are posting the hackers character names on unholy ban hammer.com.

    The prowess system is the best addition to the game and it gets everyone actively doing different things in the game world. Some people have been macroing digging, but it doesn't build your character and it sounds like people have been banned for it.

    I'm loving it.

  • DarkfallFanaticDarkfallFanatic Lake Moho, INPosts: 96Member

    ^ Wrong. Last year of DFO levelling was perfect 4x skill they could of made it 8x for this game and no grind would be needed but instead chose to substitute EVERYTHING with the prowess system, completely removing organic levelling. You can literally not take a shot with a bow ever in the game and have 100 archery. How is this logical, or even better? 

     

    Grind difference is still huge, newbies already getting owned by people with 100k prowess. 

     

    Furthermore the feats are all just "kill x mobs" stolen right from your favorite themepark. 

     

    They dumbed it down in every possible way. Classes, no funhulks, less mounts, worst UI ever seen in a PC game, safe zones, this is not Darkfall anymore. 

     

    Wait for a real sandbox. 

  • wrekognizewrekognize salt lake city, UTPosts: 384Member
    Originally posted by DarkfallFanatic

    ^ Wrong. Last year of DFO levelling was perfect 4x skill they could of made it 8x for this game and no grind would be needed but instead chose to substitute EVERYTHING with the prowess system, completely removing organic levelling. You can literally not take a shot with a bow ever in the game and have 100 archery. How is this logical, or even better? 

     

    Grind difference is still huge, newbies already getting owned by people with 100k prowess. 

     

    Furthermore the feats are all just "kill x mobs" stolen right from your favorite themepark. 

     

    They dumbed it down in every possible way. Classes, no funhulks, less mounts, worst UI ever seen in a PC game, safe zones, this is not Darkfall anymore. 

     

    Wait for a real sandbox. 

     

    This is an example of someone upset they no longer have the scripting advantage. You might not want to ask old DF players about how well they like this game. I can tell you that every DF player I've talked to who were not scripters love DFUW.

    ..

  • DarkfallFanaticDarkfallFanatic Lake Moho, INPosts: 96Member
    Originally posted by wrekognize
    Originally posted by DarkfallFanatic

    ^ Wrong. Last year of DFO levelling was perfect 4x skill they could of made it 8x for this game and no grind would be needed but instead chose to substitute EVERYTHING with the prowess system, completely removing organic levelling. You can literally not take a shot with a bow ever in the game and have 100 archery. How is this logical, or even better? 

     

    Grind difference is still huge, newbies already getting owned by people with 100k prowess. 

     

    Furthermore the feats are all just "kill x mobs" stolen right from your favorite themepark. 

     

    They dumbed it down in every possible way. Classes, no funhulks, less mounts, worst UI ever seen in a PC game, safe zones, this is not Darkfall anymore. 

     

    Wait for a real sandbox. 

     

    This is an example of someone upset they no longer have the scripting advantage. You might not want to ask old DF players about how well they like this game. I can tell you that every DF player I've talked to who were not scripters love DFUW.

    ..

    I just said all they needed to do was reduce the grind and make the UI a but easier, not start the whole game from scratch and let Tork Shaw create a new console UI. 

     

    They were right in removing bunny-hopping and reducing grind, everything else is a mess. 

     

    Maybe you're just mad you're paying for a paid beta. Half of the classes are not even complete and the game is missing dungeons even, and you sit there and tell me people love DFUW. 

  • BadaboomBadaboom Moose Jaw, SKPosts: 2,380Member
    Originally posted by DarkfallFanatic
    Originally posted by wrekognize
    Originally posted by DarkfallFanatic

    ^ Wrong. Last year of DFO levelling was perfect 4x skill they could of made it 8x for this game and no grind would be needed but instead chose to substitute EVERYTHING with the prowess system, completely removing organic levelling. You can literally not take a shot with a bow ever in the game and have 100 archery. How is this logical, or even better? 

     

    Grind difference is still huge, newbies already getting owned by people with 100k prowess. 

     

    Furthermore the feats are all just "kill x mobs" stolen right from your favorite themepark. 

     

    They dumbed it down in every possible way. Classes, no funhulks, less mounts, worst UI ever seen in a PC game, safe zones, this is not Darkfall anymore. 

     

    Wait for a real sandbox. 

     

    This is an example of someone upset they no longer have the scripting advantage. You might not want to ask old DF players about how well they like this game. I can tell you that every DF player I've talked to who were not scripters love DFUW.

    ..

    I just said all they needed to do was reduce the grind and make the UI a but easier, not start the whole game from scratch and let Tork Shaw create a new console UI. 

     

    They were right in removing bunny-hopping and reducing grind, everything else is a mess. 

     

    Maybe you're just mad you're paying for a paid beta. Half of the classes are not even complete and the game is missing dungeons even, and you sit there and tell me people love DFUW. 

    Yes, I'm sitting here and telling you I love UW.  If UW is a paid beta, and it is currently more fun than other games currently out...I can't wait for the future.

  • PanzerbasePanzerbase Chicago, ILPosts: 423Member
    It's a great game with potential, if the development team keeps in line with it's vision it will be a classic.
  • gchris7gchris7 AgonPosts: 73Member


    Originally posted by chaintm
    Compairing this to the previous is it better? how are the hacks etc? Bad, curious if this is worth re-visiting in the new version. Are you enjoying it? Is the tedious parts, marcros? I read a bit on those, seems only mining macro's, the overall feel thou, you like it or kinda like "it's improved but more of the same really". Just want to read some honest opinions, IE not flamebait :P
     

    Hacks were never a real issue in Darkfall. There were hacks ofc, like in every other mmorpg, but nothing that would ruin the fun.

    There were 4 main flaws in DF1 that are now fixed in Unholy Wars.


    1) Macroing.

    Huge issue in DF1. Everyone was basically spending more time afk, running a script, than actually playing the game. Who ever macroed more had the strongest character. With the new prowess progression this is now almost completely fixed. You might still see a few macro junkies here and there, afk digging, but really, this is minor.

    2) No skill cap.

    In DF1 every character was basically a clone to each other. Same spells, same rotations, same everything. Even if you hated magic, you where forced to skill up (i mean macro) 1 billion spells in order to be viable. Personally this was the main reason i quit DF1. This is now fixed with the new role-school system. You can now be whatever you like the most and you are free to switch between roles whenever you want.

    3) Grind

    It was insane. You literally had to mindlessly hit mobs for hours and hours, naked with a rank 0 sword/staff/bow, in order to skill up. In UW with the new Feats and Prowess systems the skilling up process is much smoother, faster and feels a lot less grindy. You are now actually rewarded for having a variety on how you skill up (crafting,gathering pve, etc.) and the better gear you use the faster you skill up.


    4) Steep learning curve.

    A newbies nightmare basically. Not many new players made it through their first days in DF1. Most of them would quit after getting griefed at newbie mob spawns or after learning they need to have scripting knowledge to play this game. In UW with the tutorial zone, safe zones, feats, markets(coming soon), things are much better for new players.

  • MMO_FanMMO_Fan okc, OKPosts: 166Member
    Originally posted by gchris7

    Originally posted by chaintm
    Compairing this to the previous is it better? how are the hacks etc?


     

    Hacks were never a real issue in Darkfall. There were hacks ofc, like in every other mmorpg, but nothing that would ruin the fun.

     

    You have fun fighting lag-switching, sticky-back teleporters? I sure did not.

  • PAL-18PAL-18 AnachronoxPosts: 802Member

    I played allmost 4 days,got weapon skill and mastery maxed ,weapon crafting half way about,did some PvP and we got hamlet and a city ,did some harvesting and some dungeon instance no idea wtf was that about,got more STR than my character had in DF1 after 6 months, i beat the game ,game over,next.

    So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.
    By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
    **On the radar:http://cyberpunk.net/**

  • PAL-18PAL-18 AnachronoxPosts: 802Member
    Originally posted by gchris7

     


    . This is now fixed with the new role-school system. You can now be whatever you like the most and you are free to switch between roles whenever you want.

    Theres so much tacos in this thread but let me pick this one right here,first why dont you tell how this actually works ?

    first there is a cooldown and you wont be changing roles whenever you want.

    second ,when you change your role,theres new wow-like system in place that you cant wear every armor that you like,leather for rogues,cloth for mages etc but even worse if you find better leather than your chain mail is as a warrior,you dont know how to  wear it.

    also it changes your health sta and mana magically when you change roles.

     

    So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.
    By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
    **On the radar:http://cyberpunk.net/**

  • gchris7gchris7 AgonPosts: 73Member


    Originally posted by PAL-18

    Originally posted by gchris7  

    . This is now fixed with the new role-school system. You can now be whatever you like the most and you are free to switch between roles whenever you want.

    Theres so much tacos in this thread but let me pick this one right here,first why dont you tell how this actually works ? first there is a cooldown and you wont be changing roles whenever you want. second ,when you change your role,theres new wow-like system in place that you cant wear every armor that you like,leather for rogues,cloth for mages etc but even worse if you find better leather than your chain mail is as a warrior,you dont know how to  wear it. also it changes your health sta and mana magically when you change roles.  
     

    The cooldown is like 15 minutes and its there mostly to prevent potential exploits. Why would you want to switch roles more often than that anyways? oO

    I can understand if you don't like how the mechanics in the role system work, but that's a personal opinion and completely irrelevant with this discussion.

     

  • PAL-18PAL-18 AnachronoxPosts: 802Member
    Originally posted by gchris7

     


    Originally posted by PAL-18

    Originally posted by gchris7  

    . This is now fixed with the new role-school system. You can now be whatever you like the most and you are free to switch between roles whenever you want.

    Theres so much tacos in this thread but let me pick this one right here,first why dont you tell how this actually works ? first there is a cooldown and you wont be changing roles whenever you want. second ,when you change your role,theres new wow-like system in place that you cant wear every armor that you like,leather for rogues,cloth for mages etc but even worse if you find better leather than your chain mail is as a warrior,you dont know how to  wear it. also it changes your health sta and mana magically when you change roles.  
     

     

    The cooldown is like 15 minutes and its there mostly to prevent potential exploits. Why would you want to switch roles more often than that anyways? oO

    I can understand if you don't like how the mechanics in the role system work, but that's a personal opinion and completely irrelevant with this discussion.

     

     

    So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.
    By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
    **On the radar:http://cyberpunk.net/**

  • chaintmchaintm Chicago, ILPosts: 972Member

    Well thnx for the reply's,

     

    as far as the guy saying there was little hacking in the old df I laugh at thee and won't even take your post seriously or any for that matter. As mentioned after there was teleport hacks a rampant and under world ziplines, please.

    SO....to the people actually playing atm and enjoying, this thing on role switching? that's definitly new, so basicly you can't do everything now but have to do roles? No more armor casters wtih negative modifiers? Don't know if I care for that part at all actually., any insight?

    Other interest are how are the guild buildings now? Hows the lag? I know its beta, but whats your overall feeling, what don't you like? I am interested but not enough to buy like last time, I am at that point where I hear some great stories or good vs bad I might give it a try being I am looking for a game atm.

     

     

    "The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"

  • BrownAleBrownAle fantasyland, MEPosts: 399Member
    Originally posted by chaintm

    Well thnx for the reply's,

     

    as far as the guy saying there was little hacking in the old df I laugh at thee and won't even take your post seriously or any for that matter. As mentioned after there was teleport hacks a rampant and under world ziplines, please.

    SO....to the people actually playing atm and enjoying, this thing on role switching? that's definitly new, so basicly you can't do everything now but have to do roles? No more armor casters wtih negative modifiers? Don't know if I care for that part at all actually., any insight?

    Other interest are how are the guild buildings now? Hows the lag? I know its beta, but whats your overall feeling, what don't you like? I am interested but not enough to buy like last time, I am at that point where I hear some great stories or good vs bad I might give it a try being I am looking for a game atm.

     

     

    Well they are already banning hackers, which is good, since in 1.0 it took them ages to get around to banning hackers.  Theres no more macroing or really a need to exploit mobs, which is good.

     

    The UI is lightyears better than the old 1.0 UI, though a lot of vets hate it, a new player will appreciate not having to deal with the old UI learning curve and 3rd party hotkey script requirements, vets hate the new bag/bank system, howevers its not nearly as tedious and looting a bit more structured, again new players will like it more.

    combat and being competative is no longer reserved for the 500 old vets who macroed to max and had flawless hotkey scripts, this makes people mad though they will never admit it.  Its MUCH easier for a new player to be competative, i expect more new players staying than stayed in 1.0 just because of this.

     

    A lot of mechanics are completely different, they had to put a lot of fluff content on hold to appeal to the vet cries for changed combat and to counter the macroing which was rampant in beta.  Again the 500-1000 1.0 vets probably will like 1.0 better but i think the goal was to have more than 1k players this time around and i think theyll achieve that, with or without the angry vocal vets who are trying really hard to drive people away.

     

    Game still retains its adrenile rush gameplay with risk, clan seiges are still fun and the focus of the game.  If you like clan seiges and clan metagaming this game does it quite well, you can participate even as a small clan (just ally or go mercenary...or just show up to someone elses seige)

    Personally i woul have taken the game in a different direction with a lot of systems... but...im so sick of arm chair developers...if the games fun play imo...dont care that they made some changes.

  • Revy106Revy106 OskakaPosts: 35Member

    Sadly its just a over simplified sandbox its got the landscape size and the nice blend of scene change its got the harvesting perfect, but that is it the fighting is beyond horific its like watching an old 8-bit game in beat em up style, the UI is terrible to

    also the chat system is just as bad I really could go on and on and as much as I am laying into the game truth be told I really wanted to this work :(

  • Deerhunter71Deerhunter71 Richmond, VAPosts: 527Member
    Originally posted by Revy106

    Sadly its just a over simplified sandbox its got the landscape size and the nice blend of scene change its got the harvesting perfect, but that is it the fighting is beyond horific its like watching an old 8-bit game in beat em up style, the UI is terrible to

    also the chat system is just as bad I really could go on and on and as much as I am laying into the game truth be told I really wanted to this work :(

    Pretty much man - steam forums are full of unhappy folks but they keep deleting those threads, lol

  • DarthRaidenDarthRaiden gdfgfPosts: 4,333Member

    If you like FFA full loot arena PvP guild combat game then it could be some game for you. Expect that you will PvP and for no reason other then bragging rights for yourself and for your guild.

    DF :UW can't be recommended for sandbox player who expect a realistic deep and complex world. Explorer, Crafter, Trader, Solo player,  Those who wish to make a live out of a remote hideout, role player and those just who join a virtual world just to enjoy the community and have a chat and fun, the pve hunter, the merchant etc.

    DF:UW has either no place for you or you get a sub par and shallow experience to such a role in a different game which is real sandbox world.

    Consider that for you FPS style fix there are dozens better alternatives then Darkfall which requires more skill and greater dedication to achieve goals as well.

    -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
    $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
    -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

    "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,690Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by chaintm

    Well thnx for the reply's,

     

    as far as the guy saying there was little hacking in the old df I laugh at thee and won't even take your post seriously or any for that matter. As mentioned after there was teleport hacks a rampant and under world ziplines, please.

    SO....to the people actually playing atm and enjoying, this thing on role switching? that's definitly new, so basicly you can't do everything now but have to do roles? No more armor casters wtih negative modifiers? Don't know if I care for that part at all actually., any insight?

    Other interest are how are the guild buildings now? Hows the lag? I know its beta, but whats your overall feeling, what don't you like? I am interested but not enough to buy like last time, I am at that point where I hear some great stories or good vs bad I might give it a try being I am looking for a game atm.

     

     

    As far as the role system goes, yeah basically everyone cant do everything. Well, you can be everything, just not all at the same time. You can max out every role if you would like, but to be PvP viable you only need to worry about 1 specific role & main stat. Increasing other stats help slightly, but not as much as the role they were intended for. For example a Skirmisher or Elementalist maxing out strength will have slightly better HP than a new Skirm / Ele, but the gain in HP per point in Str is much lower for those classes than for a Warrior. So as a Skirm or Ele, you dont HAVE to focus on Strength to be able to handle yourself in PvP, it will only help slightly. All you need is high main stat, the rest you can worry about later down the road if you want.

    Gone are the days of mages in heavy armor who can also out melee you due to maxed stats & buffs.

  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne LondonPosts: 1,420Member
    Originally posted by Badaboom

    UW is vastly superior in every way.  The grind in df1 was the worst in any game that I have ever played.  Your character needed to good at a bunch of thingS to be pvp viable and it took a long time to get there.  Df1 went through a evolution and did improve.  AV is still banning the hackers and now they are posting the hackers character names on unholy ban hammer.com.

    The prowess system is the best addition to the game and it gets everyone actively doing different things in the game world. Some people have been macroing digging, but it doesn't build your character and it sounds like people have been banned for it.

    I'm loving it.

    I don't think this is quite the truth! 

    There is a significant amount of grind. For example, the gathering acheivements require 3,000 of each material !

     

    This represents days of grinding!

  • BadaboomBadaboom Moose Jaw, SKPosts: 2,380Member
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne
    Originally posted by Badaboom

    UW is vastly superior in every way.  The grind in df1 was the worst in any game that I have ever played.  Your character needed to good at a bunch of thingS to be pvp viable and it took a long time to get there.  Df1 went through a evolution and did improve.  AV is still banning the hackers and now they are posting the hackers character names on unholy ban hammer.com.

    The prowess system is the best addition to the game and it gets everyone actively doing different things in the game world. Some people have been macroing digging, but it doesn't build your character and it sounds like people have been banned for it.

    I'm loving it.

    I don't think this is quite the truth! 

    There is a significant amount of grind. For example, the gathering acheivements require 3,000 of each material !

     

    This represents days of grinding!

    That is nothing compared to DF1.  Darkfall in the beginning had the worst grind of any MMO that I have ever played.  I'm not saying that UW does not have a grind, but it is a hell of a lot less than DF1.  

  • MegaD61MegaD61 Manhattan, KSPosts: 59Member
    Originally posted by Badaboom
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne
    Originally posted by Badaboom

    UW is vastly superior in every way.  The grind in df1 was the worst in any game that I have ever played.  Your character needed to good at a bunch of thingS to be pvp viable and it took a long time to get there.  Df1 went through a evolution and did improve.  AV is still banning the hackers and now they are posting the hackers character names on unholy ban hammer.com.

    The prowess system is the best addition to the game and it gets everyone actively doing different things in the game world. Some people have been macroing digging, but it doesn't build your character and it sounds like people have been banned for it.

    I'm loving it.

    I don't think this is quite the truth! 

    There is a significant amount of grind. For example, the gathering acheivements require 3,000 of each material !

     

    This represents days of grinding!

    That is nothing compared to DF1.  Darkfall in the beginning had the worst grind of any MMO that I have ever played.  I'm not saying that UW does not have a grind, but it is a hell of a lot less than DF1.  

    I already have 22.5K on my skirm/dex warrior build.  I can beat people with 10K prowess more then me easily if they are not good.  I feel very pvp viable.  It literally would have taken months and months of macroing and afk swimming to get my char close to what it is now in DF1.

  • ScambugScambug TortugaPosts: 389Member
    Originally posted by Badaboom

     Maybe you're just mad you're paying for a paid beta. Half of the classes are not even complete and the game is missing dungeons even, and you sit there and tell me people love DFUW. 

    Yes, I'm sitting here and telling you I love UW.  If UW is a paid beta, and it is currently more fun than other games currently out...I can't wait for the future.

    Same here, having more fun in DF than the combined fun I've had in other MMOs over the passed 5 years.

    I've played so called AAA MMOs that were in much MUCH worse state than DFUW (DCUO comes to mind). I'll gladly keep paying the sub.

  • Panther2103Panther2103 Edmonds, WAPosts: 2,353Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Badaboom
    Originally posted by DarkfallFanatic
    Originally posted by wrekognize
    Originally posted by DarkfallFanatic

    ^ Wrong. Last year of DFO levelling was perfect 4x skill they could of made it 8x for this game and no grind would be needed but instead chose to substitute EVERYTHING with the prowess system, completely removing organic levelling. You can literally not take a shot with a bow ever in the game and have 100 archery. How is this logical, or even better? 

     

    Grind difference is still huge, newbies already getting owned by people with 100k prowess. 

     

    Furthermore the feats are all just "kill x mobs" stolen right from your favorite themepark. 

     

    They dumbed it down in every possible way. Classes, no funhulks, less mounts, worst UI ever seen in a PC game, safe zones, this is not Darkfall anymore. 

     

    Wait for a real sandbox. 

     

    This is an example of someone upset they no longer have the scripting advantage. You might not want to ask old DF players about how well they like this game. I can tell you that every DF player I've talked to who were not scripters love DFUW.

    ..

    I just said all they needed to do was reduce the grind and make the UI a but easier, not start the whole game from scratch and let Tork Shaw create a new console UI. 

     

    They were right in removing bunny-hopping and reducing grind, everything else is a mess. 

     

    Maybe you're just mad you're paying for a paid beta. Half of the classes are not even complete and the game is missing dungeons even, and you sit there and tell me people love DFUW. 

    Yes, I'm sitting here and telling you I love UW.  If UW is a paid beta, and it is currently more fun than other games currently out...I can't wait for the future.

    Another old DF player here enjoying UW quite a bit as well. So yeah people obviously love it.

  • ZushakonZushakon JönköpingPosts: 119Member
    Originally posted by Panther2103
    Originally posted by Badaboom
    Originally posted by DarkfallFanatic
    Originally posted by wrekognize
    Originally posted by DarkfallFanatic

    ^ Wrong. Last year of DFO levelling was perfect 4x skill they could of made it 8x for this game and no grind would be needed but instead chose to substitute EVERYTHING with the prowess system, completely removing organic levelling. You can literally not take a shot with a bow ever in the game and have 100 archery. How is this logical, or even better? 

     

    Grind difference is still huge, newbies already getting owned by people with 100k prowess. 

     

    Furthermore the feats are all just "kill x mobs" stolen right from your favorite themepark. 

     

    They dumbed it down in every possible way. Classes, no funhulks, less mounts, worst UI ever seen in a PC game, safe zones, this is not Darkfall anymore. 

     

    Wait for a real sandbox. 

     

    This is an example of someone upset they no longer have the scripting advantage. You might not want to ask old DF players about how well they like this game. I can tell you that every DF player I've talked to who were not scripters love DFUW.

    ..

    I just said all they needed to do was reduce the grind and make the UI a but easier, not start the whole game from scratch and let Tork Shaw create a new console UI. 

     

    They were right in removing bunny-hopping and reducing grind, everything else is a mess. 

     

    Maybe you're just mad you're paying for a paid beta. Half of the classes are not even complete and the game is missing dungeons even, and you sit there and tell me people love DFUW. 

    Yes, I'm sitting here and telling you I love UW.  If UW is a paid beta, and it is currently more fun than other games currently out...I can't wait for the future.

    Another old DF player here enjoying UW quite a bit as well. So yeah people obviously love it.

    Yeah I can only agree. It's great and getting better and better imo. Can't wait until they get the rest of the schools, markets, bigger boats etc

    Darkfall Unholy Wars:
    Zushakon Odi

  • chaintmchaintm Chicago, ILPosts: 972Member

    Thnx all,

    I can tell from post which are trolling and not (Been around the block a few times in my old age) and I can honestly say it sounds like something I will like now , so again thank you for the responses, I will hit it up this weekend, any of you guys use the steam version? Does having steam open effect your game play of note? Again Trolls, you can reply but trust me, I will know if your trolling.

    Thnx again.

    "The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"

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