I have never ever requested a refund before. But today I did. I requested a refund for the Guardian Founder Pack.
I don't mind to work a little to get decent items in a game.
I don't mind the studio's need to make some cash via the Item Shop.
But with the current ingame prices on vendors (currency / AD). Wow! It puts the average Asian grinder to shame.
But with the current prices on the Zen shop for a T3 mount / T3 companion. 35 - 40 dollars/euro PER character (not even account wide)!! Sorry you used to buy an entire MMO expansion for those prices.
The game is fun and gameplay decent done. It's the ingame vendors and Zen Cash Shop that instantly turned me off from this game!
Even with Cryptic's other games (CO and STO) it's not this bad. And most likely due to those games not been F2P in beginning and so have a different ingame / cash shop balance.
Sorry.... but for me Cryptic has reached a new low again.
Shame me once with CO. Shame me twice with STO. Neverwinter is third strike and out!
I've read most of your replies in your thread and the one thing that comes across quite clearly is that you believe the ability to gain/earn the in-game currency to be able to do what you want is hard/difficult, yet from what I read from others it's not impossible. Don't you think you should have to actually earn things in-game the old fashioned way, as in work for them, fight for them, adventure for them, quest for them rather than visiting an in-game shop a few days into early access.
It doesn't matter if he can afford the items or not, having items for real money, makes a barrier between the players and the game company in that the interest of the company is no longer to keep you entertained, but to get you to buy items.
They would want to deliberately make the game fucked up for you to make you buy instead of focusing on keeping your subscription.
A 40$ item = 3 months subscription to any other game, buy 2 and you've paid for more sub time than most people even play a single mmo.
Say there is an item that does take insane amount of grind, and someone goes through all that to get the item, he should be able to feel good about that and get recognised for his achievement in game, builds community, perhaps inspire others to go through the same to get the same item.
He should be able to feel good about the item without some asshat getting the same item by paying 40$.
And before you bring up elitism, it's not elitism, it's what makes a game for a lot of us, progression and achievement, the arguement "Just don't buy" doesn't work, because, others buying the items I achieve, devalue my achievement and makes it - not worth my time.. at that point it's no longer a game, it's just a real life money pit.
F2P is not in our best interest, it destroys games.
Thanks for the post Jeokane! I was about to buy the found pack until I read your post, I think I know what you're saying, everything CAN be gained trough playing, but not anytime this year if you wont plan on buying the stuff in the store (with silly prices)
Guess I try it out tomorrow for free instead, but I guess I wont stay for long!
Originally posted by Aerowyn i haven't even looked at prices for anything because I have had no reason to look.. only thing i may want is a bag.. if i can hit 60 and keep doing/making foundry stuff i'm happy.. no need ot spend anything more than I have already.. i do remember them talking in beta about adjusting zen prices though
lol I know what you mean.
I have the week off and wanted to try something new. so ponied up the 60.00 and I've been having a blast. I've never once looked into the cash shop and have only looked at vendors twice.
So far at lvl 15 my gear seems fine and I can do content that seems clearly a few levels above me. Having said that, I can forsee potions getting expensive if one is a guardian fighter.
Then again, I haven't grouped just yet so perhaps there is a nice cleric in my future who will heal my wounds and rub my temples and pour me wine.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
It doesn't matter if he can afford the items or not, having items for real money, makes a barrier between the players and the game company in that the interest of the company is no longer to keep you entertained, but to get you to buy items.
They would want to deliberately make the game fucked up for you to make you buy instead of focusing on keeping your subscription.
A 40$ item = 3 months subscription to any other game, buy 2 and you've paid for more sub time than most people even play a single mmo.
Say there is an item that does take insane amount of grind, and someone goes through all that to get the item, he should be able to feel good about that and get recognised for his achievement in game, builds community, perhaps inspire others to go through the same to get the same item.
He should be able to feel good about the item without some asshat getting the same item by paying 40$.
And before you bring up elitism, it's not elitism, it's what makes a game for a lot of us, progression and achievement, the arguement "Just don't buy" doesn't work, because, others buying the items I achieve, devalue my achievement and makes it - not worth my time.. at that point it's no longer a game, it's just a real life money pit.
F2P is not in our best interest, it destroys games.
The pay barrier only exists if you can't earn items through gameplay. Some of the items he complains about (the T3 companion) can be upgraded through AD and game play. He wants it now.
I agree some of their prices are outlandish, but I don't feel obligated or required to buy them. Some items in fact, character slots and the bags, are fairly cheap. Two character slots is around $6 and a 24 slot bag is like $10.
Comparing yourself to others is a shaky argument at best. You're positing that the "time currency" used in p2p games is a non-factor. In other words it's okay to you if someone can play 40 hours per week and get the special item in 2 weeks, but someone else who can only play 10 hours a week must wait 2 months. Yet, if someone plays 40 hours a week and gets the item in 2 weeks their accomplishment is invalidated because the person who plays 10 hours per week bought that. It just doesn't jive.
If you esteem is validated by your game accomplishments and invalidated by others shortcutting that then you're in for a long and sad haul.
Originally posted by Aerowyn i haven't even looked at prices for anything because I have had no reason to look.. only thing i may want is a bag.. if i can hit 60 and keep doing/making foundry stuff i'm happy.. no need ot spend anything more than I have already.. i do remember them talking in beta about adjusting zen prices though
lol I know what you mean.
I have the week off and wanted to try something new. so ponied up the 60.00 and I've been having a blast. I've never once looked into the cash shop and have only looked at vendors twice.
So far at lvl 15 my gear seems fine and I can do content that seems clearly a few levels above me. Having said that, I can forsee potions getting expensive if one is a guardian fighter.
Then again, I haven't grouped just yet so perhaps there is a nice cleric in my future who will heal my wounds and rub my temples and pour me wine.
Just wait till you hit level 30. A lot of people say that difficulty will seriously ramp up beyond level 30 and potion and scroll drops decreasing significantly.
It's the clasical F2P bait trick... to get people hooked to the game by making the early levels easy and accessable and then slapping you in the face later on and dangling the Cash Shop in front of you like a carrot to make your gaming experience easier again.
I have never ever requested a refund before. But today I did. I requested a refund for the Guardian Founder Pack.
I don't mind to work a little to get decent items in a game.
I don't mind the studio's need to make some cash via the Item Shop.
But with the current ingame prices on vendors (currency / AD). Wow! It puts the average Asian grinder to shame.
But with the current prices on the Zen shop for a T3 mount / T3 companion. 35 - 40 dollars/euro PER character (not even account wide)!! Sorry you used to buy an entire MMO expansion for those prices.
The game is fun and gameplay decent done. It's the ingame vendors and Zen Cash Shop that instantly turned me off from this game!
Even with Cryptic's other games (CO and STO) it's not this bad. And most likely due to those games not been F2P in beginning and so have a different ingame / cash shop balance.
Sorry.... but for me Cryptic has reached a new low again.
Shame me once with CO. Shame me twice with STO. Neverwinter is third strike and out!
Dude just because they exist, doesn't mean you have to have them.
Learn some self control and play the bloody game mate
So amusing seeing nothing but 'FTP is the future, screw sub models!' for months on end and then seeing all the whining from the 'I want it all and I want it NOW' footstampers when they get exactly what they demanded
I thought the mounts in the shop were account unlocks, they were in the beta weekends at least, I havent looked since OB. Also if you are a Guardian, you already have a Tier 3 mount for all your characters.
I thought the prices were pretty reasonable. $1 to change your appearance, $6 to respec, $2.50 per character slot.
The mounts are fairly expensive, but completely unnecessary aside from vanity. You can earn Tier 3 mounts and companions in-game.
The game isnt pay to win at all. But yes, they are trying to make a profit, so they can keep developing the game. Keep in mind that this isnt a B2P product like GW2. They need the cash shop. And thankfully they havent gated stuff off like other F2P games.
agreed.. don't think people understand f2p games have 0 revenue outside founders pack type things.. you don't make millions on box sales like a b2p game would so you need to start generating revenue best you can to continue development of the game.. i have played a LOT of f2p over the years and neverwinter is by far one of the tamest cash shop wise i have seen.. many people forgot you can't compare this game to Tera or any other conversion game as they made a lot of revenue from their inital box sales.. the prices my be a bit high but its mostly fluff stuff, nothing that halts your progression or enjoyment of the game, nothing overpowered or anything you can't get an equivalent of in game.. but people see PW and just assume since some of their other games have much more p2w style CS they assume this one is as well
Yes, that is the best point ever. People don't want pay to win, but if fluff is their only bread and butter they have got to tack a high premium on it.
That is so rediculously false its not even funny.
High prices creates a large barrier for people to even think about buying anything from a cash shop, by having lower prices its easy for a person to start to spend money on the game, once that first purchase of an item on the cash shop is done it makes it easier for a person to justify further purchases.
By creating high prices people are less likly to put any money into the game and people like the OP will just flat out quit. You tell me what sounds better, getting the player to wet their whistle and spend more money down the line, or create a entry barrier?
It doesn't matter if he can afford the items or not, having items for real money, makes a barrier between the players and the game company in that the interest of the company is no longer to keep you entertained, but to get you to buy items.
They would want to deliberately make the game fucked up for you to make you buy instead of focusing on keeping your subscription.
A 40$ item = 3 months subscription to any other game, buy 2 and you've paid for more sub time than most people even play a single mmo.
Say there is an item that does take insane amount of grind, and someone goes through all that to get the item, he should be able to feel good about that and get recognised for his achievement in game, builds community, perhaps inspire others to go through the same to get the same item.
He should be able to feel good about the item without some asshat getting the same item by paying 40$.
And before you bring up elitism, it's not elitism, it's what makes a game for a lot of us, progression and achievement, the arguement "Just don't buy" doesn't work, because, others buying the items I achieve, devalue my achievement and makes it - not worth my time.. at that point it's no longer a game, it's just a real life money pit.
F2P is not in our best interest, it destroys games.
The pay barrier only exists if you can't earn items through gameplay. Some of the items he complains about (the T3 companion) can be upgraded through AD and game play. He wants it now.
I agree some of their prices are outlandish, but I don't feel obligated or required to buy them. Some items in fact, character slots and the bags, are fairly cheap. Two character slots is around $6 and a 24 slot bag is like $10.
Comparing yourself to others is a shaky argument at best. You're positing that the "time currency" used in p2p games is a non-factor. In other words it's okay to you if someone can play 40 hours per week and get the special item in 2 weeks, but someone else who can only play 10 hours a week must wait 2 months. Yet, if someone plays 40 hours a week and gets the item in 2 weeks their accomplishment is invalidated because the person who plays 10 hours per week bought that. It just doesn't jive.
If you esteem is validated by your game accomplishments and invalidated by others shortcutting that then you're in for a long and sad haul.
The barrier exist regardless if it can be earned in game since the shift in interest comes as soon as in game items can be bought for real life money, first off -understand that.
They'll make a valley, make you have to cross, offer you bridge for real life money, if people don't bite, they'll dig the valley deeper.
Yes, time is what should determin what you achieve in game, not real life cash, then it isn't a game anymore, understand?
"it's okay to you if someone can play 40 hours per week and get the special item in 2 weeks, but someone else who can only play 10 hours a week must wait 2 months"
Yes, that is okay, it's kinda how mmorpgs work, you play you progress, you play more you progress further.
Lets say X game has a instant max lvl button that anyone can click for 10 bucks, that will make you're max lvl'd char that you grinded out for months seem like nothing.
It's not hard to understand.. is it?
Doing something hard in a game is an achievement like any other, the reward might not be tangible, but it doesn't have to be, if a reward had to be tangible for your brain to percieve it as rewarding, then computer games wouldnt work.
My selfesteem has nothing to do with playing games, now you're just taking shots because you got nothing better.
Originally posted by Boraell So amusing seeing nothing but 'FTP is the future, screw sub models!' for months on end and then seeing all the whining from the 'I want it all and I want it NOW' footstampers when they get exactly what they demanded
Lol so true so true. I find it humorous. Even though I hate all the freeloading mooches that whined and cried that free to play is the way. Now that's what the horizon is full of, they whine and cry that the developers are still in the business to make a profit.
personally I feel that the F2P method is ruining MMOs
Sooo you're complaining about a completely optional Tier 3 mount price, because the Tier 1's in the game going 110% weren't fast enough I guess, I guess saving up some AD was too much trouble for a free mount too. The ones in the store were very easily achieved. And then there's the one in the Ardent shop that's only 150 coins which requires nothing but gameplay time.
It's also worth mentioning that unlike other games out there Tier 1 mount training is immediate and free upon achieving level 20. So there is no saving up for training and a mount there's just a mount and that's if you want one. Personally the early zones are not that big.
Finds it funny he's asking for a refund when he's paid to get a free mount that's faster then the other Tier 1 without any paid training costs, a mount that's actually account wide no less.
Originally posted by Aerowyn looked through everything still stumped what OP is complaining about looks like a bunch of fluff stuff in the zen shop
So you think 35 - 40 dollars / euros for stuff like mounts and companions is normal?
Have you checked the companion vendor ingame and seen the prices for T3 compansions?
You're facing some serious hardcore grind ingame to acquire just one of those.
You talk about wanting to progress your character but the only thing you mention is the mount and companions. 2 Items not even remoely related to character progression. Its like playing WoW and bitching becasue sparkly ponies and mini-diablo clones can only be purchased through the cash shop.
Progression is about your character, and your characters stats and items, you havn't even reached level 60 yet to determine what kind of gear grind there is.
It doesn't matter if he can afford the items or not, having items for real money, makes a barrier between the players and the game company in that the interest of the company is no longer to keep you entertained, but to get you to buy items.
They would want to deliberately make the game fucked up for you to make you buy instead of focusing on keeping your subscription.
A 40$ item = 3 months subscription to any other game, buy 2 and you've paid for more sub time than most people even play a single mmo.
Say there is an item that does take insane amount of grind, and someone goes through all that to get the item, he should be able to feel good about that and get recognised for his achievement in game, builds community, perhaps inspire others to go through the same to get the same item.
He should be able to feel good about the item without some asshat getting the same item by paying 40$.
And before you bring up elitism, it's not elitism, it's what makes a game for a lot of us, progression and achievement, the arguement "Just don't buy" doesn't work, because, others buying the items I achieve, devalue my achievement and makes it - not worth my time.. at that point it's no longer a game, it's just a real life money pit.
F2P is not in our best interest, it destroys games.
And this my friend is wh yI hope Subscription model dies a slow painful agonizing death. The elitisim you say that is nto there is exactly the elitism I hate from games that reward time and time only. Someone like me who has a real life and a commitment to other responsiblities is always lagging behind in a sub game with no way to catch up and no way to progress except through time spent, nay forced playing the game.
A F2P model allows my money to substitute for time and it allows me just as much opportunity to progress and enjoy the game and the developers see worth in my limited time. Thank you F2P for allowing the MMO market to actually be fun and worthwhile for the casual gamer.
I think the OP didn't look very closely. As a founder, you get a R3 companion and R3 mount (account wide) by default. When you purchase a mount from the cash shop, it's account-wide. I agree on the companions in the Zen store - a bit pricey, and R3 hopefully won't require loads of AD to unlock. We'll see how PWE handles this.
Honestly, we don't even have a good idea of the amount of effort to manage companion ranks just yet; they might make them cheaper to level up than mounts.
As far as "grinding AD for T3", I'm seeing that you grind the seals from dungeons, which can't be sold on the AH (at least T2 and higher stuff), are not purchaseable for AD or Zen. You can get the equivalent of "outland blues" in the old TBC era terminology from lockboxes or buying stuff on the AH and converting to Seals, but that's a bit expensive.
So, T2 and T3 items aren't "purchasable with cash", and some of the rewards from those dungeons will be earnable only via dungeon runs , as far as I can see.
I agree with the OP but for different reasons then the 30-50$ Mounts in the cash shop or the 10$ bags.
I am talking about the normal ingame stuff, where you have no choice but too use AD, like removing enchants, identifying those damn annoying green items that drop like crazy, it moves through the whole game you need a buttload of AD for companion upgrades, upgrades for mounts for crafting for pretty much everything.
You can only earn 25k Astral Diamonds per day.
For a Rank 3 mount you need 2 million Astral Diamonds, now do the math and tell me this ain't fucked up.
This leaves a very bad after taste in my mouth.
Well whatever, this game is a filler for me anyway because if i am perfectly honest, this game is the same old same old and i guess it will get boring very fast.
Originally posted by Emeraq Wait... You're requesting a refund because you don't want to pay the listed prices for other items in the cash shop??? I truly hope you are declined, as you clearly state the game is fun and decently designed, so you clearly aren't unhappy with the product you received.. it's the other products that you haven't even paid for that you are pissed about... Some people amaze me.
What a nice guy you are, to stand up for a company ripping off gamers...
Round of applause for this gentleman right 'ere!
It's not about standing up for a company, it's more like expecting people to live with the mistakes they make. The only reason a refund/charge-back should ever be sought is when the product is not what was advertised.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
At 25k AD per day, it would take you 80 days capping AD to get the tier 3 mount. Almost 3 months of time, without spending any AD on ANYTHING else, for one purchase. This is what the free to play model is all about. Show you the desirable item, and then make the effort to obtain it unreasonable for an average player, which then drives that average player into the cash shop.
Games are about fun right? Is getting a new mount necessary to game play? Nope. Is it fun? Yes. Is saving up 80 days worth of AD fun? No.
At 25k AD per day, it would take you 80 days capping AD to get the tier 3 mount. Almost 3 months of time, without spending any AD on ANYTHING else, for one purchase. This is what the free to play model is all about. Show you the desirable item, and then make the effort to obtain it unreasonable for an average player, which then drives that average player into the cash shop.
Games are about fun right? Is getting a new mount necessary to game play? Nope. Is it fun? Yes. Is saving up 80 days worth of AD fun? No.
Free to play is destroying the fun in this genre.
You can earn refined AD from other content and from AH sales.
You can get a mount, which you want for fun right?, for fairly cheap. You want the best mounts in the game right now without time, effort, or money. I don't think F2P is killing the genre. Impatience and entitlement come to mind first.
This has nothing to do with impatience and entitlement. But F2P pushing grinds to the extreme, to slap the cash shop in our faces.
P2P games have also Epic Mounts that take effort to get. Especially in EverQuest 2 it used to be quite the grind. But still that grind was doable and nowhere near the grind you see in Neverwinter.
For hardcore players who don't care about family and social life and dedicate their lives to gaming and play 10 hours a day... I guess these types of F2P games totally suits them.
But the vast majority of players don't play that many hours a day.... and a lot of them will be put off from the game, when they play it for a while and hit the "wall of grind" sooner than later.
Interesting - I wonder how a company can charge low prices in the cash shop for a game that doesn't require the player base to spend money on the game (neither through subs nor retail sale) and expect to make a profit.
Heck, this game's not even scratched the "Hooraaay! We broke even!" mark, and may never get there. The current prices in the cash shop should be no surprise to anybody.
At 25k AD per day, it would take you 80 days capping AD to get the tier 3 mount. Almost 3 months of time, without spending any AD on ANYTHING else, for one purchase. This is what the free to play model is all about. Show you the desirable item, and then make the effort to obtain it unreasonable for an average player, which then drives that average player into the cash shop.
Games are about fun right? Is getting a new mount necessary to game play? Nope. Is it fun? Yes. Is saving up 80 days worth of AD fun? No.
Free to play is destroying the fun in this genre.
You can earn refined AD from other content and from AH sales.
You can get a mount, which you want for fun right?, for fairly cheap. You want the best mounts in the game right now without time, effort, or money. I don't think F2P is killing the genre. Impatience and entitlement come to mind first.
This has nothing to do with impatience and entitlement. But F2P pushing grinds to the extreme, to slap the cash shop in our faces.
P2P games have also Epic Mounts that take effort to get. Especially in EverQuest 2 it used to be quite the grind. But still that grind was doable and nowhere near the grind you see in Neverwinter.
For hardcore players who don't care about family and social life and dedicate their lives to gaming and play 10 hours a day... I guess these types of F2P games totally suits them.
But the vast majority of players don't play that many hours a day.... and a lot of them will be put off from the game, when they play it for a while and hit the "wall of grind" sooner than later.
So if you plan on playing the game for 6 months, buy your 50-60$ mount and you still paid less than a subscription would cost...
I mean, most people who "don't play that many hours a day" have lives/jobs/families and hopefully money for their hobbies - right?
Just as a comparison, R3 mount costs 2.8 million AD. That's for one (gold purchased) mount, R2 and R3 training, on one character.
At the worst possible exchange rate (500:1, capped in-game), you would have to make only 2 million AD and convert it to Zen through the exchange to get an account-wide mount unlock. At the median exchange rate (200:1 as per dilithium in STO), you'd only have to earn 800,000 AD to purchase the z-store mount.
Let's take the example of a rank 5 enchantment. To get a rank 5 enchantment in-game through the vendors = impossible - rank 4 = 150,000 AD - but let's multiply that by 4x, for the combining rate, assuming you hit the 65% success first time (4 rank 4 = 1 rank 5). For that 150,000 AD, you could easily get 10 lockbox keys and luck into the runes you wanted (or an epic rune). I've gotten scores from a single key ring. So, vendor prices are terribad.
Seeing this, I'd say grinding AD for anything which can be bought in the store at R3 or found in a lockbox is just plain dumb. Grind AD > Zen, buy it from the store and earn it a lot faster.
At 25k AD per day, it would take you 80 days capping AD to get the tier 3 mount. Almost 3 months of time, without spending any AD on ANYTHING else, for one purchase. This is what the free to play model is all about. Show you the desirable item, and then make the effort to obtain it unreasonable for an average player, which then drives that average player into the cash shop.
Games are about fun right? Is getting a new mount necessary to game play? Nope. Is it fun? Yes. Is saving up 80 days worth of AD fun? No.
Free to play is destroying the fun in this genre.
You can earn refined AD from other content and from AH sales.
You can get a mount, which you want for fun right?, for fairly cheap. You want the best mounts in the game right now without time, effort, or money. I don't think F2P is killing the genre. Impatience and entitlement come to mind first.
This has nothing to do with impatience and entitlement. But F2P pushing grinds to the extreme, to slap the cash shop in our faces.
P2P games have also Epic Mounts that take effort to get. Especially in EverQuest 2 it used to be quite the grind. But still that grind was doable and nowhere near the grind you see in Neverwinter.
For hardcore players who don't care about family and social life and dedicate their lives to gaming and play 10 hours a day... I guess these types of F2P games totally suits them.
But the vast majority of players don't play that many hours a day.... and a lot of them will be put off from the game, when they play it for a while and hit the "wall of grind" sooner than later.
So if you plan on playing the game for 6 months, buy your 50-60$ mount and you still paid less than a subscription would cost...
I mean, most people who "don't play that many hours a day" have lives/jobs/families and hopefully money for their hobbies - right?
You all just nitpicking on a single thing. It's not just mounts.
EVERYTHING in this game is a huge AD sink. The higher level you get, the faster you burn through AD.
Beyond level 30 you will start burning through AD at an alarming rate. Much faster than you can get through ingame means.
Comments
I've read most of your replies in your thread and the one thing that comes across quite clearly is that you believe the ability to gain/earn the in-game currency to be able to do what you want is hard/difficult, yet from what I read from others it's not impossible. Don't you think you should have to actually earn things in-game the old fashioned way, as in work for them, fight for them, adventure for them, quest for them rather than visiting an in-game shop a few days into early access.
It doesn't matter if he can afford the items or not, having items for real money, makes a barrier between the players and the game company in that the interest of the company is no longer to keep you entertained, but to get you to buy items.
They would want to deliberately make the game fucked up for you to make you buy instead of focusing on keeping your subscription.
A 40$ item = 3 months subscription to any other game, buy 2 and you've paid for more sub time than most people even play a single mmo.
Say there is an item that does take insane amount of grind, and someone goes through all that to get the item, he should be able to feel good about that and get recognised for his achievement in game, builds community, perhaps inspire others to go through the same to get the same item.
He should be able to feel good about the item without some asshat getting the same item by paying 40$.
And before you bring up elitism, it's not elitism, it's what makes a game for a lot of us, progression and achievement, the arguement "Just don't buy" doesn't work, because, others buying the items I achieve, devalue my achievement and makes it - not worth my time.. at that point it's no longer a game, it's just a real life money pit.
F2P is not in our best interest, it destroys games.
Thanks for the post Jeokane! I was about to buy the found pack until I read your post, I think I know what you're saying, everything CAN be gained trough playing, but not anytime this year if you wont plan on buying the stuff in the store (with silly prices)
Guess I try it out tomorrow for free instead, but I guess I wont stay for long!
Thanks again!
lol I know what you mean.
I have the week off and wanted to try something new. so ponied up the 60.00 and I've been having a blast. I've never once looked into the cash shop and have only looked at vendors twice.
So far at lvl 15 my gear seems fine and I can do content that seems clearly a few levels above me. Having said that, I can forsee potions getting expensive if one is a guardian fighter.
Then again, I haven't grouped just yet so perhaps there is a nice cleric in my future who will heal my wounds and rub my temples and pour me wine.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
And for free no less , now and free.
Seems to be the tone of folks nowadays.
Personally I'm enjoying the game tons.
Just wait till you hit level 30. A lot of people say that difficulty will seriously ramp up beyond level 30 and potion and scroll drops decreasing significantly.
It's the clasical F2P bait trick... to get people hooked to the game by making the early levels easy and accessable and then slapping you in the face later on and dangling the Cash Shop in front of you like a carrot to make your gaming experience easier again.
Dude just because they exist, doesn't mean you have to have them.
Learn some self control and play the bloody game mate
That is so rediculously false its not even funny.
High prices creates a large barrier for people to even think about buying anything from a cash shop, by having lower prices its easy for a person to start to spend money on the game, once that first purchase of an item on the cash shop is done it makes it easier for a person to justify further purchases.
By creating high prices people are less likly to put any money into the game and people like the OP will just flat out quit. You tell me what sounds better, getting the player to wet their whistle and spend more money down the line, or create a entry barrier?
The barrier exist regardless if it can be earned in game since the shift in interest comes as soon as in game items can be bought for real life money, first off -understand that.
They'll make a valley, make you have to cross, offer you bridge for real life money, if people don't bite, they'll dig the valley deeper.
Yes, time is what should determin what you achieve in game, not real life cash, then it isn't a game anymore, understand?
"it's okay to you if someone can play 40 hours per week and get the special item in 2 weeks, but someone else who can only play 10 hours a week must wait 2 months"
Yes, that is okay, it's kinda how mmorpgs work, you play you progress, you play more you progress further.
Lets say X game has a instant max lvl button that anyone can click for 10 bucks, that will make you're max lvl'd char that you grinded out for months seem like nothing.
It's not hard to understand.. is it?
Doing something hard in a game is an achievement like any other, the reward might not be tangible, but it doesn't have to be, if a reward had to be tangible for your brain to percieve it as rewarding, then computer games wouldnt work.
My selfesteem has nothing to do with playing games, now you're just taking shots because you got nothing better.
Sit down son.
Lol so true so true. I find it humorous. Even though I hate all the freeloading mooches that whined and cried that free to play is the way. Now that's what the horizon is full of, they whine and cry that the developers are still in the business to make a profit.
personally I feel that the F2P method is ruining MMOs
Sooo you're complaining about a completely optional Tier 3 mount price, because the Tier 1's in the game going 110% weren't fast enough I guess, I guess saving up some AD was too much trouble for a free mount too. The ones in the store were very easily achieved. And then there's the one in the Ardent shop that's only 150 coins which requires nothing but gameplay time.
It's also worth mentioning that unlike other games out there Tier 1 mount training is immediate and free upon achieving level 20. So there is no saving up for training and a mount there's just a mount and that's if you want one. Personally the early zones are not that big.
Finds it funny he's asking for a refund when he's paid to get a free mount that's faster then the other Tier 1 without any paid training costs, a mount that's actually account wide no less.
You talk about wanting to progress your character but the only thing you mention is the mount and companions. 2 Items not even remoely related to character progression. Its like playing WoW and bitching becasue sparkly ponies and mini-diablo clones can only be purchased through the cash shop.
Progression is about your character, and your characters stats and items, you havn't even reached level 60 yet to determine what kind of gear grind there is.
SUP
And this my friend is wh yI hope Subscription model dies a slow painful agonizing death. The elitisim you say that is nto there is exactly the elitism I hate from games that reward time and time only. Someone like me who has a real life and a commitment to other responsiblities is always lagging behind in a sub game with no way to catch up and no way to progress except through time spent, nay forced playing the game.
A F2P model allows my money to substitute for time and it allows me just as much opportunity to progress and enjoy the game and the developers see worth in my limited time. Thank you F2P for allowing the MMO market to actually be fun and worthwhile for the casual gamer.
SUP
I think the OP didn't look very closely. As a founder, you get a R3 companion and R3 mount (account wide) by default. When you purchase a mount from the cash shop, it's account-wide. I agree on the companions in the Zen store - a bit pricey, and R3 hopefully won't require loads of AD to unlock. We'll see how PWE handles this.
Honestly, we don't even have a good idea of the amount of effort to manage companion ranks just yet; they might make them cheaper to level up than mounts.
As far as "grinding AD for T3", I'm seeing that you grind the seals from dungeons, which can't be sold on the AH (at least T2 and higher stuff), are not purchaseable for AD or Zen. You can get the equivalent of "outland blues" in the old TBC era terminology from lockboxes or buying stuff on the AH and converting to Seals, but that's a bit expensive.
So, T2 and T3 items aren't "purchasable with cash", and some of the rewards from those dungeons will be earnable only via dungeon runs , as far as I can see.
I agree with the OP but for different reasons then the 30-50$ Mounts in the cash shop or the 10$ bags.
I am talking about the normal ingame stuff, where you have no choice but too use AD, like removing enchants, identifying those damn annoying green items that drop like crazy, it moves through the whole game you need a buttload of AD for companion upgrades, upgrades for mounts for crafting for pretty much everything.
You can only earn 25k Astral Diamonds per day.
For a Rank 3 mount you need 2 million Astral Diamonds, now do the math and tell me this ain't fucked up.
This leaves a very bad after taste in my mouth.
Well whatever, this game is a filler for me anyway because if i am perfectly honest, this game is the same old same old and i guess it will get boring very fast.
It's not about standing up for a company, it's more like expecting people to live with the mistakes they make. The only reason a refund/charge-back should ever be sought is when the product is not what was advertised.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
At 25k AD per day, it would take you 80 days capping AD to get the tier 3 mount. Almost 3 months of time, without spending any AD on ANYTHING else, for one purchase. This is what the free to play model is all about. Show you the desirable item, and then make the effort to obtain it unreasonable for an average player, which then drives that average player into the cash shop.
Games are about fun right? Is getting a new mount necessary to game play? Nope. Is it fun? Yes. Is saving up 80 days worth of AD fun? No.
Free to play is destroying the fun in this genre.
This has nothing to do with impatience and entitlement. But F2P pushing grinds to the extreme, to slap the cash shop in our faces.
P2P games have also Epic Mounts that take effort to get. Especially in EverQuest 2 it used to be quite the grind. But still that grind was doable and nowhere near the grind you see in Neverwinter.
For hardcore players who don't care about family and social life and dedicate their lives to gaming and play 10 hours a day... I guess these types of F2P games totally suits them.
But the vast majority of players don't play that many hours a day.... and a lot of them will be put off from the game, when they play it for a while and hit the "wall of grind" sooner than later.
Interesting - I wonder how a company can charge low prices in the cash shop for a game that doesn't require the player base to spend money on the game (neither through subs nor retail sale) and expect to make a profit.
Heck, this game's not even scratched the "Hooraaay! We broke even!" mark, and may never get there. The current prices in the cash shop should be no surprise to anybody.
So if you plan on playing the game for 6 months, buy your 50-60$ mount and you still paid less than a subscription would cost...
I mean, most people who "don't play that many hours a day" have lives/jobs/families and hopefully money for their hobbies - right?
Just as a comparison, R3 mount costs 2.8 million AD. That's for one (gold purchased) mount, R2 and R3 training, on one character.
At the worst possible exchange rate (500:1, capped in-game), you would have to make only 2 million AD and convert it to Zen through the exchange to get an account-wide mount unlock. At the median exchange rate (200:1 as per dilithium in STO), you'd only have to earn 800,000 AD to purchase the z-store mount.
Let's take the example of a rank 5 enchantment. To get a rank 5 enchantment in-game through the vendors = impossible - rank 4 = 150,000 AD - but let's multiply that by 4x, for the combining rate, assuming you hit the 65% success first time (4 rank 4 = 1 rank 5). For that 150,000 AD, you could easily get 10 lockbox keys and luck into the runes you wanted (or an epic rune). I've gotten scores from a single key ring. So, vendor prices are terribad.
Seeing this, I'd say grinding AD for anything which can be bought in the store at R3 or found in a lockbox is just plain dumb. Grind AD > Zen, buy it from the store and earn it a lot faster.
You all just nitpicking on a single thing. It's not just mounts.
EVERYTHING in this game is a huge AD sink. The higher level you get, the faster you burn through AD.
Beyond level 30 you will start burning through AD at an alarming rate. Much faster than you can get through ingame means.