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Anyone who thinks LOTRO's F2P model is P2W is obviously not someone who's ever played the game. LOTRO isn't PvP oriented, so theres no WIN. LOTRO is a PvE game with the option to play PvP in a single zone. As for the F2P model, it's leagues ahead of any other F2P model out there since you can actually play the content without having to spend a dime. There is no gear restrictions, no gold cap and you can still learn whatever crafting profession you desire, all for free. LOTRO also has some of the better aesthetics of any MMO out there as well for when it came out and even comparable to recent MMOs.
This thread has no merit to it period. I know not everyone likes LOTRO, but lying about the game simply because you don't like it, is well, very trollish.
Originally posted by DavisFlight LotRO was never a great game. Middle Earth Online was a great game, made by passionate innovative devs. LotRO was the result of scrapping most of the good content and dumping out a cheap WoW clone. The only real good aspects of LotRO are leftovers from MEO's development. It was only a matter of time.
I never thought it was all that great of a game either.....The community that was supposed to be so good was nothing special either...i found both EQ and AO communities much better.....LoTRO was basically carried by the IP, but the game itself was really not very good.
Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by xalviScrew sapience, the guy killed the right to express peoples views. But then again you got those fanboys who will never admit to anything about turbines wrongdoings.
Unless they are not "wrong doings'
For some creepy reason we have "gamers" who think they can say and do whatever they want on forums.
Sometimes there are decent criticisms but many times it's just some rant from some disenfranchised individual who feels that opinion of theirs is "right".
Sapience had a job and did it. It's their forum and their forum is there to discuss the game and it's there to serve the game company "along" with the community.
It's not there to allow players to rant and rave to their heart's content. No company in their right mind would allow it. Regardless of whether there was merit in the complaints.
And in the interest of full disclosure I despise a lot that they did with this game. But that doesn't mean I think "gamers" should have carte blanche to rail against a game company on their very own forum.
Yes but before F2P the forums was fine as it is....then came Sapience. His infraction system is just too flawed. There are too many cases when a person is sharing his/her views about the game and how to improve on it but then the thread gets infracted because it makes the game look bad.
Yes, i was one of them, but im not alone i can assure you that. I never had a problem with the lotro forums or any other forums on other website before sapience, jhis pathetic logical of what is deemed "troll" is absurd.
Originally posted by xalvi Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by xalviScrew sapience, the guy killed the right to express peoples views. But then again you got those fanboys who will never admit to anything about turbines wrongdoings.
sorry but I would have to actually see those posts. No insult intended but these very forums are littered with players with their "I can't believe I was banned I was just simply telling the truth and supplying pertinant criticisms" only for me to look at their posts and want to have them banned again for good measure.
Originally posted by Lugoves If it's all solo; how exactly is is pay to win? What are you winning, exactly?
Are you saying you can't win in single player games? So why do i feel so strangely happy about 5 skulling nightmare in OMD 2? There might be no PvP, but there is still the epeen. If i see horrible players in chat bragging about how they 5 manned instance xy, knowing they load down with potions & scrolls and other crap from the store ... yeah.
Especially if they complain about me not using store potions when i group with them ... thankfully that only happens once per player /ignore. Im sick of having to defend myself over not buying store stuff. I don't buy gameplay related stuff, period. Thats cheating no matter how you look at it, wether its single player games or MMOs.
Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by xalvi Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by xalviScrew sapience, the guy killed the right to express peoples views. But then again you got those fanboys who will never admit to anything about turbines wrongdoings.
Understandable, but you and i both know this happens. If someone is calling out a company on their wrong or how the game is lacking in many things, it will eventually be deleted. Because the company doesnt want to be looking bad infront of customers or future customers and there will be arguements on the topic and sapience will deem a few posts as troll of some sort and close the thread.
He tends to give several infractions on just one post as well. Anyways after digging the web here is what i found.
Found much more but you get the picture.
Originally posted by sfc1971 Turbine had with the original game, pre-moria, a decent little sleeper hit on their hands. It was WoW for people that don't like the "intensity" of WoW. And with that I mean anything from the famous barren chat to having to grind just to be able to join a raid. The game eventually (before Moria) had two raids, one big and one smaller which gave somewhat okay rewards you didn't need. Raiding was about raiding and not about getting phat loot. I lead plenty, especially Helegrod, were anyone was welcome as long as they met the level requirement to get inside in the first place. This would be unthinkable in WoW. Lotro was a nice casual MMORPG and was slowly growing. But apparently not fast enough because with the release of the Moria expansion, the game took a radically different approach. It introduced an area that was literaly a dungeon and dungeon with no "run free" parts. With that I mean that in the original outdoor areas, you could always find a path with no enemies to harass you on your way to an area OR you could at least reach a spot where you can "run free" of your pursuers without picking up new ones. Not so in Moria, just endless corridors with enemies just widely spaced enough that you would always be under attack. The bypass for collapsed bridge was particullaly insulting, just one corrider just narrow enough to have the single mobs always attack you as you run past. Either run the entire bloody long way under attack or spend an hour or two fighting them. BORING! Moria also introduced gated content, instances you had to grind before being allowed to do the expansion raid. For people who by that time had many alts, it promised to be an unsurmountable hurdle and the end content was regonized by many as not worth the hassle. Ever since the introduction Turbine has made countless changes, everytime claiming that this time they had fully satisfied their customers needs... they haven't yet. Legendary gear was another Moria abonimation and again often changed. It was basically Moria that ended Lotro as a casual friendly MMORPG and with F2P it opened the flood gates to the kiddies who want WoW but can't afford it. The problem with that approach was simple, the old paying customers left and the new free loaders didn't bring in enough cash. So Turbine went into cash shop overdrive trying to sell stuff like dyes which basically were free in the game proper and finally resorting to pure p2w driving away more old paying customers and getting only free loaders in return. The game would have been far better if 9/10 of moria had been cut and instead the time had been spent on a nice non-gated raid and some outdoor alternative areas. It had the RP market locked up but wanted to attract the barren crowd instead. Well. They succeeded.
You've echoed my thoughts exactly. The release of Moria marked its decline and I lost my love for it steadily after. I've never experienced such frustrating content as I did with Moria.The legendary system was confusing, and the grind for weapons became unbearable. Then the free to play movement came and players had to pay for content again. To add insult, you're reminded of turbine point on every screen. I'd love to see this game shut down and rebooted. The IP deserves so much better than what this game has become.
Of course, Lotro is going down.
It's going down because it has some PvP. It's going down because it has PvE. It's going down because it does not expand new servers. It's going down because it does not merge existing servers. It's going down if it sells fluff in the store. It will be going down if it had no store. It's going down because it is f2p. it will be going down it it wasn't f2p. If they introduce more raids/instances, they are going down because of killing solo content. If they do not introduce more raids/instances, they are going down because of killing group content.
Overall: if I dislike something, game is going down, relies only on fanboys and will end very soon.
Let's start with basic things:
1) in PvE there is no "ultimate gear to win". You can reach endgame, you can stay in lvl.20. It's all about your mood to play. I was happy when, suddenly attacked by some mobs in Eregion, I was able (being lvl.57 and they - some 40s) defend from all of them at one time and use only one healing potion. I did it with standard armour and weapons. What if I purchased stuff from store and did same wipe - would it be "pay to win"?
2) Lotro is 95% PvE. Love it or leave because of it.
3) Turbine is a private company and it has to make money (sounds strange, I know). If they make Big Raid of Death and sales of raid are low - why should they sell it? If raid/instances sells are low - why waste time on things people won't buy? Every company would sell things that do not contradict company's views and bring profit. So - if players do not buy instances/raids - Turbine won't make them, naturally. If OP had a shop and customers won't buy Fishburgers - would OP continue to make Fishburgers at any cost?
4) you will have to pay huge amount of money to unlock basic things like traits, gold cap etc and pay for overpriced expansions without any endgame in the end. Wrong. I spent some 6000 Turbine points in the game. purchasing lots of things: Angmar, Eregion, Evendim, Forochel, Misty Mountains, Mines of Moria; gold cap removal, premium wallet, riding skill, access to Weaponsmith guild, some traits/virtues too. And I paid nothing, just made deeds.
5) Grind. I suppose every game has a grind: kill 100 Rainbow monkeys, slay 78 Orc Nightwach Chiefs or find 99 Sith Lemonade Artefacts on Hoth. Lotro is not different from other games: yes, it asks to kill stuff and rewards for it. Demands increase as player grows up: first slayer deeds require 60 to kill, advanced - some 300. However, OP missed the fact that some quests do require killing or just exploring dungeon/region will force you to kill some stuff. In Forochel, I finished several slayer deeds with very little additional job - everything went naturally. Also, I am not sure if OP has played all mmorpgs to judge lotro is "the grindiest".
I think OP is sad because game does not meet his/her expectations. It does happen, I am dissatisfied with some things in Lotro too. But I do not think game is going down because I dislike certain aspects. I dislike forced fellowships - does it mean game goes down if it has many forced fellowships in Angmar? No, it doesn't. If you don't like Angmar, don't purchase it, don't go there - or if you purchased/went there - take some effort to find fellowship.
I understand OP may be frustrated with slayer deeds (my own "slay 150 Linfavrn in Evendim" is far from being finished), but nobody is forced to do them. If you dislike deed - just ignore it; if you dislike quest - just cancel it.
[mod edit] The game has never been about pvp. Its a grown up game that grown ups play, not 12 year olds stroking their epeen over a boring and pointless sub game like pvp. If your into that go and play Darkfall or something before it dies because as you know people will be bored within a month and leave the game like all pvp games.
I take it you play a game called WOW?
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
The "community" was always overrated. People in the game were snobs for the most part. If you aren't a member of their kin, they wouldn't even spit on you. Things actually got better when F2P hit, normal people started playing. But now it's back to being insular.
The game also was actually doing pretty badly, all things considered. When I started playing the game, about a year after the launch, there were very few people who kept playing after the trial period. I pretty much went from level 25 to 46 without seeing another person in the landscape. It was crazy. And this was on Landroval, one of the bigger servers. I've never experienced anything like that on a game until City of Heroes, where some servers would only have 20 people on at a time.
But part of it was things like not getting a horse until you were level 35. I mean, c'mon. That really sucked, having to run everywhere. And all the grind involved.
But the grind has only gotten worse. I thought grinding for virtues was bad, but LIs are perhaps the worst grind in all of MMORPGs. Including anything from Asia.
On the flip side though, a lot of the quest design has gotten better. In many of the newer areas, you don't have to constantly go back to the same area over and over, like you once did. And horses are avaible quicker, which help a lot.
If not for LIs, I think the game is actually improved.
R.I.P. City of Heroes and my 17 characters there
Originally posted by vinilla Hahaha! LOTRO is pay to win game, cmon be serious! Currently Turbine has the best free to play model! I didnt pay for that game since Mines of Moria and still i have almost all contents available! It's pretty easy if u don't want to pay - farm Turbine points ... And btw the new expansion has a lot of raids and 3-man 6-man instance so please be more familiar with the game before posting that kind of crap! And be more familiar with the term "Pay to win". In LOTRO the only thing u can buy from the shop is cosmetics, steeds and traits if you are too lazy to earn those!
You really don't know anything about this, do you?
1. Grinding TP to unlock contents, will require that you first unlock character slots, then use multiple characters to grind the same deeds over and over again. Else you won't get far. You call farming TP over hundreds of hours "pretty easy"? Well, may be true for those without a life...
2. We all know that promises about instances/raids in expansions have been made before, and not been delivered. The new expansion is still far ahead of us, and no one knows what will change before release, this time. So mind your own "crap" posting, please.
3. You tell others to be more familiar with "pay to win", but haven't got a clue yourself. Or do you consider for example stat tomes purely cosmetic? Just one example, there are plenty more.
Failed on all points, try again, please.
Originally posted by Dibdabs YES! - a "pay to win thread". This is both new and interesting.
As I read it OP is upset because they focus on adding solostuff instead of raids and dungeons, the point wasnt really P2win.
And he do have a point, LOTRO is not the only game that focus on solostuff but few others focus this much on it with an expansion.
I played LotRO when it first launched in the EU, I think it was 2006, but left it shortly after being a bit disappointed with the themparkish approach to ME. Then I picked it up again with a new character about a year ago, since it went F2P, and I've been having a blast ever since. It's probably the best Thempark out there, partly due to the IP that speaks for itself, but partly also due to the very fine work the developers have done in depicting ME.
DoI want a different LotRO, more open-world and sandboxish? I sure do, but the current one serves its purpose well atm.
Originally posted by trancejeremy The "community" was always overrated. People in the game were snobs for the most part. But part of it was things like not getting a horse until you were level 35. I mean, c'mon. That really sucked, having to run everywhere. And all the grind involved. But the grind has only gotten worse. I thought grinding for virtues was bad, but LIs are perhaps the worst grind in all of MMORPGs. Including anything from Asia.
Maybe it's Codies and Eu, but I never had any problems with the community on those 3 servers I spread due to my massive altoholism I've met many great people in LotRO and the community was always nice.
I agree with the ridiculous "on foot until 35" method, true you had the Bree starter at lvl20 but he was barely faster than walking. It's good Turbine changed that.
Also agree, LI's suck. Big time. That's why I try to avoid it at all, I strolling around with average 2nd agers on my characters to this very day... Luckily it doesn't hinder me in anything, I still can enjoy the game's story, world and the people in it (minus the elitists and hc raiders ofc. )
Well as far as I am concerned Lotro started to noticeably go 'wrong way' since Lothlorien and Mirkwood, even before f2p. it still was fun, but clouds were already gathering. Freemium conversion added much more bad things, especially and primarly cash shop existence which was main reason I left.
Other things were further streamlining, removing of challange, solofying absolutely everything that was not in instances, relyiance on skirmishes, token and medalions system, teleporting to instances, decrease in overall quality and insane "repeat easy boring content ad-naseum" grinds, wrecking immersion with microtransactions. Also transfering servers to USA worsened my experience by very increased latency and packet drops.
It has lost it charm. I still have great memories, but I am glad I left, not glad I haven't left right after freemium announcement but naively sticked for many months and I do regreat that game changed in a direction I could not enjoy it anymore.
I played it casually until some months ago some technical problems came up and the game hadnt updated itself anymore.
So i uninstalled it and decided to come back later when im in mood.
It ran always perfectly fine on Linux/Wine ...
+1 Exactly my thoughts
A great game was destroyed when MEO was scrapped to make way for LOTRO
Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.
Games Played: Too Many
I would be happy if i never see the L33t term Raid ever again.So i commend them for making this move.I don't like any of this adding fancy terms to gaming,i prefer simple well designed games,i don't need to hear about Raids or END game or DYNAMIC ,just give me a game and i'll decide if it is good or not.
Raid content is super easy and cheap to design,so you are not missing out on anything.
There really isn't a definitive argument here anyhow,yo usaid the ONCE great game.How does a cheap xpac change that?What were you doing before,that you can't do now?It sounds lie kthe OP has based the game solely off of Raid instances?hardly a criteria to base any game from imo.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by Karahandras Originally posted by DavisFlight LotRO was never a great game. Middle Earth Online was a great game, made by passionate innovative devs. LotRO was the result of scrapping most of the good content and dumping out a cheap WoW clone. The only real good aspects of LotRO are leftovers from MEO's development. It was only a matter of time.
Have to agree with this, if it was so great it wouldn't have been a ghost town and had to go f2p. But I agree with the analysis of the cash shop.
LOTRO didn't go f2p because it was a ghost town,. It went f2p because DDO made so much money with its transition that they wanted to try the same thing in LOTRO.
And though MEO might have fit my preferences far more than what Turbine has done with LOTRO, no one knows how well a finished product MEO would have done or how it would have worn over the years.
We just have to think about it. Singleplayer centric WoW clones have all, over the last 8 years, shrivelled up and died.
The only MMOs in recent years that have grown or remained stable, are more open ended sandbox games.
MEO would have done quite a bit better than LotRO in the long term I think.
And yes, LotRO went FTP because of the huge lack of population.
DDO was already a dead game for years before it went FTP, there was nothing to lose on that gamble. Once it worked, why not use it to revive a just MOSTLY dead game? DDO didn't "make so much money". It went from making almost nothing, to something. That still doesn't mean a ton of money.
The problem with LOTRO is the problem with every game that goes F2P. The focus of the content of the dev team is to get people to spend money before they leave. Which means long term players, raiders, PvP players, vetran players all get left out so the devs can try to take money from the short term game hoppers.
This is simply the reason why F2P does not work for veteran MMO players as the focus is on making the short term players buy something, not making long term content. It might be a great thing for ultra casuals and people that do not play MMOs much but for veteran players that play MMOs for endgame F2P is the worst thing possible.
Originally posted by DavisFlight Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by Karahandras Originally posted by DavisFlight LotRO was never a great game. Middle Earth Online was a great game, made by passionate innovative devs. LotRO was the result of scrapping most of the good content and dumping out a cheap WoW clone. The only real good aspects of LotRO are leftovers from MEO's development. It was only a matter of time.
Quite possibly the most stupid thread of posts I have ever read on here. You think lotro has shrivelled up and died? It's 6 years old and still going strong, there are plenty of players on Laurelin where I play. Lotro wasn't a ghost town and still isn't, unlike TSW and ToR after only a year. I really wish people would actually engage brain, do some research or even maybe play the game before spouting off on here. I will probably get banned again, but that's because mmorpg doesn't care about people lying on here.
Originally posted by Galadourn I played LotRO when it first launched in the EU, I think it was 2006, but left it shortly after being a bit disappointed with the themparkish approach to ME. Then I picked it up again with a new character about a year ago, since it went F2P, and I've been having a blast ever since. It's probably the best Thempark out there, partly due to the IP that speaks for itself, but partly also due to the very fine work the developers have done in depicting ME. DoI want a different LotRO, more open-world and sandboxish? I sure do, but the current one serves its purpose well atm.
Blimey a post from someone who actually plays the game, spot on mate.