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Camelot Unchained: The Final Countdown for a Kickstarter, and an Industry

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  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by Tierless

    So, are all of you happy with how the industry currently functions?

    Do all of you like the last 5 AAA mmos we were given?

    Are all of you content with the current process to produce a MMO?

    All of this has nothing to do with Camelot Unchained.

     

    People dont seem to realize:  Camelot Unchained is just one game.  Has EvE changed the industry?  No it has not.  An Indie game with a niche audience that is the second buggest subscription MMO in the west.  Only the extremely naive believe CU would change anything.

    To pledge or not pledge CU should only be based on this:  Do I think CU will be great to play and do I have confidence Jacobs can deliver?  And that question Im not going to comment on here

    At least the last few AAA MMOs havent been WoW clones (GW2, TSW), and we will have the big reveal coming in August of what we know is a AAA sandbox, of the genre's signature franchise.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by strangiato2112
    Originally posted by Tierless

    So, are all of you happy with how the industry currently functions?

    Do all of you like the last 5 AAA mmos we were given?

    Are all of you content with the current process to produce a MMO?

    All of this has nothing to do with Camelot Unchained.

     

    People dont seem to realize:  Camelot Unchained is just one game. 

     

    People need to see the larger picture here. With the large profile failure of SWTOR and other AAA MMORPGs, if smaller scale MMOs like CU and Darkfall and Pathfinder, pushing original ideas and smaller niche focus, start having long term growing success, it with help encourage more studios to do the same, instead of constantly using publishers to reskin WoW.

     

    This is the first time an MMORPG veteran has come back to the genre they helped create to try to make an MMO like they used to make back in the golden age of the industry. And after 8 years of garbage AAA MMORPGs that, if they're lucky, have ONE tiny new feature, I'm ready for a niche MMO that isn't trying to clone WoW, and has tons of fresh ideas.

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by strangiato2112
    Originally posted by Tierless

    So, are all of you happy with how the industry currently functions?

    Do all of you like the last 5 AAA mmos we were given?

    Are all of you content with the current process to produce a MMO?

    All of this has nothing to do with Camelot Unchained.

     

    People dont seem to realize:  Camelot Unchained is just one game. 

     

    People need to see the larger picture here. With the large profile failure of SWTOR and other AAA MMORPGs, if smaller scale MMOs like CU and Darkfall and Pathfinder, pushing original ideas and smaller niche focus, start having long term growing success, it with help encourage more studios to do the same, instead of constantly using publishers to reskin WoW.

     

    This is the first time an MMORPG veteran has come back to the genre they helped create to try to make an MMO like they used to make back in the golden age of the industry. And after 8 years of garbage AAA MMORPGs that, if they're lucky, have ONE tiny new feature, I'm ready for a niche MMO that isn't trying to clone WoW, and has tons of fresh ideas.

    Except that not all publishers are always trying to reskin WoW.  Open your damn eyes.  Like the game or not, GW2 certainly is nowhere close to WoW reskinned.  EQNext has been announced as being a sandbox.  trion just released a PvE-centric MMO shooter.

     

    And its most certainly not the first time an MMO veteran has come back to the industry.  Except the last time was a huge failure (Vanguard). 

     

    And there have always been indie games.  From EvE to Ryzomm to Darkfall and MO.  There are upcoming indie games like The Repopulation.   Attaching any sort of industry wide importance to CU is ridiculous.  Personal importance, of course, is a different story.  

     

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

    This is kind of ridiculous. CU is not going to change the industry. Even supposing the game does get made, based on the number of people pledging money, it's a sub 20k player game. The number of players in the industry is millions, or hundreds of millions.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Sugar Grove, VAPosts: 1,547Member Uncommon
    I would have backed the kickstarter if they were doing a remake of Magestorm / Spellbinder and not a DAoC Lite ( it almost sounds / feels like a DAoC Private server honestly ). There needs to be FPS games that have magic instead of guns ( no swords or bows either ).

    image

  • TaldierTaldier Camp Hill, PAPosts: 235Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    This is kind of ridiculous. CU is not going to change the industry. Even supposing the game does get made, based on the number of people pledging money, it's a sub 20k player game. The number of players in the industry is millions, or hundreds of millions.

    I'd agree that CU isnt going to cause drastic changes to the industry just by itself (though I'd certainly argue it has an effect as an important part of a larger movement towards player-funded niche games).

     

    However, when you drastically understate things to make your point it just makes you look incredibly ignorant.  Can you think of any game where the total number of players was 50% preorders?  And how many of those preorders were put in 2 years in advance?

     

    It certainly is a niche game and its unlikely to go over 100k payed subs unless its just outright phenomenal.  But 20K?  Thats just assuming from the start that its going to fail.  At 20k CSE would likely be shutting down the game.

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Originally posted by strangiato2112

    Originally posted by Tierless So, are all of you happy with how the industry currently functions? Do all of you like the last 5 AAA mmos we were given? Are all of you content with the current process to produce a MMO?
    All of this has nothing to do with Camelot Unchained.   People dont seem to realize:  Camelot Unchained is just one game. 
     

    People need to see the larger picture here. With the large profile failure of SWTOR and other AAA MMORPGs, if smaller scale MMOs like CU and Darkfall and Pathfinder, pushing original ideas and smaller niche focus, start having long term growing success, it with help encourage more studios to do the same, instead of constantly using publishers to reskin WoW.

     

    This is the first time an MMORPG veteran has come back to the genre they helped create to try to make an MMO like they used to make back in the golden age of the industry. And after 8 years of garbage AAA MMORPGs that, if they're lucky, have ONE tiny new feature, I'm ready for a niche MMO that isn't trying to clone WoW, and has tons of fresh ideas.


    Well said, so many people lack vision and the ability to read between the lines to see what something truly means, not what it represents on the surface, but what it means, what the impact is on a deeper level. Look how many industry guys have put this game over, they are hanging on just like us, for the hope that this works and encourages them to get back to making great games, art games, and not cash grabs.

  • ZinzanZinzan NorthPosts: 1,351Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by strangiato2112
    Originally posted by Tierless

    So, are all of you happy with how the industry currently functions?

    Do all of you like the last 5 AAA mmos we were given?

    Are all of you content with the current process to produce a MMO?

    All of this has nothing to do with Camelot Unchained.

     

    People dont seem to realize:  Camelot Unchained is just one game. 

     

    People need to see the larger picture here. With the large profile failure of SWTOR and other AAA MMORPGs, if smaller scale MMOs like CU and Darkfall and Pathfinder, pushing original ideas and smaller niche focus, start having long term growing success, it with help encourage more studios to do the same, instead of constantly using publishers to reskin WoW.

     

    This is the first time an MMORPG veteran has come back to the genre they helped create to try to make an MMO like they used to make back in the golden age of the industry. And after 8 years of garbage AAA MMORPGs that, if they're lucky, have ONE tiny new feature, I'm ready for a niche MMO that isn't trying to clone WoW, and has tons of fresh ideas.

    There is no larger picture here, your talking to a handful of people who backed CU, a few thousand.....that's it.

    if people truly wanted this mmorpg made it would have funded in the first day, as it is, 4 weeks later, it might not fund at all.

    The mmorpg genre has moved on, you have to stop living in the past, CU shows, if nothing else, relatively few people want this type of mmorpg these days.

    CU is niche, let me repeat that, niche! It will appeal to an infinitesimally small percentage of mmo players, it won't change an industry because if it did the genre would be truly dead.

    Face facts, people want WoW style games.

    Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Zinzan
    Originally posted by DavisFlight Originally posted by strangiato2112 Originally posted by Tierless So, are all of you happy with how the industry currently functions? Do all of you like the last 5 AAA mmos we were given? Are all of you content with the current process to produce a MMO?
    All of this has nothing to do with Camelot Unchained.   People dont seem to realize:  Camelot Unchained is just one game. 
      People need to see the larger picture here. With the large profile failure of SWTOR and other AAA MMORPGs, if smaller scale MMOs like CU and Darkfall and Pathfinder, pushing original ideas and smaller niche focus, start having long term growing success, it with help encourage more studios to do the same, instead of constantly using publishers to reskin WoW.   This is the first time an MMORPG veteran has come back to the genre they helped create to try to make an MMO like they used to make back in the golden age of the industry. And after 8 years of garbage AAA MMORPGs that, if they're lucky, have ONE tiny new feature, I'm ready for a niche MMO that isn't trying to clone WoW, and has tons of fresh ideas.
    There is no larger picture here, your talking to a handful of people who backed CU, a few thousand.....that's it.

    if people truly wanted this mmorpg made it would have funded in the first day, as it is, 4 weeks later, it might not fund at all.

    The mmorpg genre has moved on, you have to stop living in the past, CU shows, if nothing else, relatively few people want this type of mmorpg these days.

    CU is niche, let me repeat that, niche! It will appeal to an infinitesimally small percentage of mmo players, it won't change an industry because if it did the genre would be truly dead.

    Face facts, people want WoW style games.


    Oh, I agree completely. Most people want WOW type of easy games that tell them they are awesome. All of my points are saying what CU means for people on this site, the bitter lost children of MMOs past. I never realized it until now, I never made that clear.

    Do I think CU will kill WOW LOL, no. What I think CU does is open the door for more of the games the majority of people on sites like this want again.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Tierless

    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Originally posted by strangiato2112

    Originally posted by Tierless So, are all of you happy with how the industry currently functions? Do all of you like the last 5 AAA mmos we were given? Are all of you content with the current process to produce a MMO?
    All of this has nothing to do with Camelot Unchained.   People dont seem to realize:  Camelot Unchained is just one game. 
     

    People need to see the larger picture here. With the large profile failure of SWTOR and other AAA MMORPGs, if smaller scale MMOs like CU and Darkfall and Pathfinder, pushing original ideas and smaller niche focus, start having long term growing success, it with help encourage more studios to do the same, instead of constantly using publishers to reskin WoW.

     

    This is the first time an MMORPG veteran has come back to the genre they helped create to try to make an MMO like they used to make back in the golden age of the industry. And after 8 years of garbage AAA MMORPGs that, if they're lucky, have ONE tiny new feature, I'm ready for a niche MMO that isn't trying to clone WoW, and has tons of fresh ideas.


    Well said, so many people lack vision and the ability to read between the lines to see what something truly means, not what it represents on the surface, but what it means, what the impact is on a deeper level. Look how many industry guys have put this game over, they are hanging on just like us, for the hope that this works and encourages them to get back to making great games, art games, and not cash grabs.



    Unless games like CU can be successful on a much larger scale, they are not going to attract the larger developers. Those developers will just leave the market because they can't run their companies on a game with 20k people. It's not the profit percentage, it's the gross profit that will determine whether or not they decide to make certain games.

    I think it would be great if CU gets funded and a product gets out the door, but I'm not going to delude myself into the thinking the entire industry is going to change because of one tiny blip on the radar.

    ** ** **

    If such a tiny game was relevant, then TSW wouldn't be considered a failure for getting ten times the number of players that CU will get. SWToR wouldn't be considered lame even though it had over half a million players. The target is millions of players, not thousands. CU will probably be great, but it's not the target that the larger developers are looking to hit.

    ** ** **

    A much better outcome would be those larger developers leaving the market and many smaller developers entering the market, creating smaller, but better built games. So far we just have smaller but just as cr@ppy games.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • DrakynnDrakynn The Pas, MBPosts: 2,030Member
    Originally posted by Mkilbride
    Lol, I knew if I posted this article, MMORPG would come in to ruin what is an awesome piece by OnRPG.

    What's really funny is that if a similarly melodramatic and extremely biased articel was posted about (oh let's choose a game at random) Wildstar .tThen the majority of people who think the opinion piece you presented us is awesome and the God's honest truth would be calling out the Wildstar article as biased and overly dramatic and villifying the author.

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by Tierless

     


    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Originally posted by strangiato2112

    Originally posted by Tierless So, are all of you happy with how the industry currently functions? Do all of you like the last 5 AAA mmos we were given? Are all of you content with the current process to produce a MMO?
    All of this has nothing to do with Camelot Unchained.   People dont seem to realize:  Camelot Unchained is just one game. 
     

     

    People need to see the larger picture here. With the large profile failure of SWTOR and other AAA MMORPGs, if smaller scale MMOs like CU and Darkfall and Pathfinder, pushing original ideas and smaller niche focus, start having long term growing success, it with help encourage more studios to do the same, instead of constantly using publishers to reskin WoW.

     

    This is the first time an MMORPG veteran has come back to the genre they helped create to try to make an MMO like they used to make back in the golden age of the industry. And after 8 years of garbage AAA MMORPGs that, if they're lucky, have ONE tiny new feature, I'm ready for a niche MMO that isn't trying to clone WoW, and has tons of fresh ideas.


     

    Well said, so many people lack vision and the ability to read between the lines to see what something truly means, not what it represents on the surface, but what it means, what the impact is on a deeper level. Look how many industry guys have put this game over, they are hanging on just like us, for the hope that this works and encourages them to get back to making great games, art games, and not cash grabs.

    You are so out of touch with reality its laughable.

    This game is a special case, because its a big name guy attached to it AND is a sequel to a older, popular game.  Big name + big existing fanbase.  About the only possible comparison would be if Koster wanted to make a game called Galaxies Beyond or something, however Koster would probably use the leverage of his current company to make it if he wanted to.

    No one else would be able to raise 2 million on ideas alone.

    So really, a game like Repopulation means signficantly more, because its not using its starpower or its first game to make an indie game.  

  • TheHavokTheHavok San Jose, CAPosts: 2,398Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mkilbride

    Begging thread?

     

    Ok, god damned MMORPG.com trolls, cmon. This is a link, to an article. Not a begging thread. ORPG is a respected website. As much, if not more so than MMORPG.com. It's an interesting article.

     

    But no, of course, it's postive about CU, and we all know on the CU Forums, we can't have positive things.

    People aren't trolling you, people are criticizing you. The final countdown for a kickstarter? Yes. The final countdown for an industry? What a joke. The MMORPG community and gaming lineup is stronger then ever and continues to grow every year.  If you don't like the titles released, fine, but don't generalize us all and think we are part of your blind crusade.

     

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by strangiato2112
    Originally posted by Tierless   Originally posted by DavisFlight Originally posted by strangiato2112 Originally posted by Tierless So, are all of you happy with how the industry currently functions? Do all of you like the last 5 AAA mmos we were given? Are all of you content with the current process to produce a MMO?
    All of this has nothing to do with Camelot Unchained.   People dont seem to realize:  Camelot Unchained is just one game. 
        People need to see the larger picture here. With the large profile failure of SWTOR and other AAA MMORPGs, if smaller scale MMOs like CU and Darkfall and Pathfinder, pushing original ideas and smaller niche focus, start having long term growing success, it with help encourage more studios to do the same, instead of constantly using publishers to reskin WoW.   This is the first time an MMORPG veteran has come back to the genre they helped create to try to make an MMO like they used to make back in the golden age of the industry. And after 8 years of garbage AAA MMORPGs that, if they're lucky, have ONE tiny new feature, I'm ready for a niche MMO that isn't trying to clone WoW, and has tons of fresh ideas.
      Well said, so many people lack vision and the ability to read between the lines to see what something truly means, not what it represents on the surface, but what it means, what the impact is on a deeper level. Look how many industry guys have put this game over, they are hanging on just like us, for the hope that this works and encourages them to get back to making great games, art games, and not cash grabs.
    You are so out of touch with reality its laughable.

    This game is a special case, because its a big name guy attached to it AND is a sequel to a older, popular game.  Big name + big existing fanbase.  About the only possible comparison would be if Koster wanted to make a game called Galaxies Beyond or something, however Koster would probably use the leverage of his current company to make it if he wanted to.

    No one else would be able to raise 2 million on ideas alone.

    So really, a game like Repopulation means signficantly more, because its not using its starpower or its first game to make an indie game.  


    Im a big fan of the Repopulation. I hope it does well. Frankly they should do a KS.

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by TheHavok

    Originally posted by Mkilbride Begging thread?   Ok, god damned MMORPG.com trolls, cmon. This is a link, to an article. Not a begging thread. ORPG is a respected website. As much, if not more so than MMORPG.com. It's an interesting article.   But no, of course, it's postive about CU, and we all know on the CU Forums, we can't have positive things.
    People aren't trolling you, people are criticizing you. The final countdown for a kickstarter? Yes. The final countdown for an industry? What a joke. The MMORPG community and gaming lineup is stronger then ever and continues to grow every year.  If you don't like the titles released, fine, but don't generalize us all and think we are part of your blind crusade.

     


    Wait, so you like the way the genre is, then why are you on this site? I thought this is for bitter MMOers that hate AAA.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Tierless

     


     

    Im a big fan of the Repopulation. I hope it does well. Frankly they should do a KS.

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/therepopulation/the-repopulation

    i'am one of the few that backed it, it seems :) only 709 of us

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Tierless  
      Im a big fan of the Repopulation. I hope it does well. Frankly they should do a KS.
    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/therepopulation/the-repopulation

    i'am one of the few that backed it, it seems :) only 709 of us


    THANKS! Dunno how I missed that!

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Tierless

     


    Originally posted by Aerowyn

    Originally posted by Tierless  


      Im a big fan of the Repopulation. I hope it does well. Frankly they should do a KS.
    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/therepopulation/the-repopulation

     

    i'am one of the few that backed it, it seems :) only 709 of us


     

    THANKS! Dunno how I missed that!

    it was a very low key KS.. obviously since you see how much they asked for.. they still offer most of the same stuff from their website under early adopter

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • PanzerbasePanzerbase Chicago, ILPosts: 423Member
    I think the industry will shrug off CU once it takes a dirt nap in about oh say a second. 
  • chaintmchaintm Chicago, ILPosts: 972Member Common
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    They have a bunch of ideas that are not set in stone, yet they know for sure that they need 2 million dollars. That's why this is ks has always seemed half baked to me.

    This says it all, yet you have to wonder.....

     

    Look, it comes down to you being a fan or not of the idea and actually willing to dontate on a promise. I have backed many kickstarters (look me up if you like) but each had one thing in common. Proven concepts, be it a full tech demo or a fully layed out plan. Even theme park (currently the one i am backing) has a full actual playable editor that works, they are looking for extra funding to add to the concept and finalize it. That's a proven concept.

     

    "The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"

  • JIUBHUNNY420JIUBHUNNY420 Youve Never Heard of it, FLPosts: 131Member

    So if they dont make the 2 mill? Which is looks like they wont.

     

    They dont get ANY of the money right?

    J-Hun Lookin to Creep Yall!

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by JIUBHUNNY420

    So if they dont make the 2 mill? Which is looks like they wont.

     

    They dont get ANY of the money right?

    correct and they are out all they time and money the spent on this KS.. i still think it will fund though.. couple more days to see

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • TheJodaTheJoda chicago, ILPosts: 467Member
    Originally posted by JIUBHUNNY420

    So if they dont make the 2 mill? Which is looks like they wont.

     

    They dont get ANY of the money right?

    ....yes the money doesnt get transfered or processed unless it hits the KS goal set.  Which it dont look good, 3 days and almost 500k to go....thats a ruff average with the recient trend they have had.

    ....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!

  • TaldierTaldier Camp Hill, PAPosts: 235Member
    [mod edit]
  • MidBossMidBoss Blank, WIPosts: 93Member
    Originally posted by Drakynn
    Originally posted by Mkilbride
    Lol, I knew if I posted this article, MMORPG would come in to ruin what is an awesome piece by OnRPG.

    What's really funny is that if a similarly melodramatic and extremely biased articel was posted about (oh let's choose a game at random) Wildstar .tThen the majority of people who think the opinion piece you presented us is awesome and the God's honest truth would be calling out the Wildstar article as biased and overly dramatic and villifying the author.

    Quoting this because It's a crime no one's acknowledged this post yet.

    And in regards to the article:

    Just the title alone is such a sensationalist load of garbage I find it really hard to care about anything else he's saying.

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