Originally posted by Fendel84M It's a lot of fun. Definitely not quite an open world mmo as say WoW but it feels like a really awesome ARPG that just happens to be an MMO too.
WoW is open world? u sure? cause i rember sititng in town and never leaving xD
Originally posted by Fendel84M It's a lot of fun. Definitely not quite an open world mmo as say WoW but it feels like a really awesome ARPG that just happens to be an MMO too.
So basically its GW2 reskinned?
That was the impression I got from watching the combat that LOOKS spammy.
GW2 is significantly more exploratory than NW. The upside though is that NW characters have a much greater life expectancy than GW2.
However... I'm going to be humble this time and give Neverwinter another try. The beta left me with very negative feelings and I doubt these will be changed with the "release". So, I'm probably going to stomp it down to ground and just continue playing DDO and you know, Neverwinter Nights.
It's not D&D; if they called it something else and changed all of the names and monsters, I might be able to get over the fact that the basic system just isn't interesting, but as you say, with 2 pretty good REAL D&D games not that old, I just can't see what this game has to offer.
Have you actually played the game? Just asking...........................................
OP, the game is decently fun for what amounts to a lobby based dungeon crawler that can barely be called an MMO. I don't expect much longevity from this game, just like I didn't with Champions Online or Star Trek Online. I highly doubt I'll stick with it for more than a few weeks.
Originally posted by Vorthanion OP, the game is decently fun for what amounts to a lobby based dungeon crawler that can barely be called an MMO. I don't expect much longevity from this game, just like I didn't with Champions Online or Star Trek Online. I highly doubt I'll stick with it for more than a few weeks.
So, broadly speaking then, it sounds like Neverwinter is no better or worse than any other AAA MMO of the last 2 years ? Most of them seemed to lose 50%+ of their starter players after the "first few weeks".
However... I'm going to be humble this time and give Neverwinter another try. The beta left me with very negative feelings and I doubt these will be changed with the "release". So, I'm probably going to stomp it down to ground and just continue playing DDO and you know, Neverwinter Nights.
It's not D&D; if they called it something else and changed all of the names and monsters, I might be able to get over the fact that the basic system just isn't interesting, but as you say, with 2 pretty good REAL D&D games not that old, I just can't see what this game has to offer.
Have you actually played the game? Just asking...........................................
Have you?
Yes and I like it, your point is what????
That you don't seem to have anything to say other than, "It's great! I don't have any details, but it's great! And anyone who says otherwise either hasn't played it or is just wrong!"
I'm sorry, but it's boring as mud; there is no significant character progression, there is only the most basic synergy between the classes (and ZERO variation), the rogue is completely unnecessary, and the other classes could be swapped out from any other MMO from the last decade without anyone noticing.
Neverwinter should come in a white box with big, black letters on it that just say, "MMORPG."
Originally posted by Vorthanion OP, the game is decently fun for what amounts to a lobby based dungeon crawler that can barely be called an MMO. I don't expect much longevity from this game, just like I didn't with Champions Online or Star Trek Online. I highly doubt I'll stick with it for more than a few weeks.
So, broadly speaking then, it sounds like Neverwinter is no better or worse than any other AAA MMO of the last 2 years ? Most of them seemed to lose 50%+ of their starter players after the "first few weeks".
First few days*
People log in on launch day, do a few quests, and never log in again.
However... I'm going to be humble this time and give Neverwinter another try. The beta left me with very negative feelings and I doubt these will be changed with the "release". So, I'm probably going to stomp it down to ground and just continue playing DDO and you know, Neverwinter Nights.
It's not D&D; if they called it something else and changed all of the names and monsters, I might be able to get over the fact that the basic system just isn't interesting, but as you say, with 2 pretty good REAL D&D games not that old, I just can't see what this game has to offer.
Have you actually played the game? Just asking...........................................
Have you?
Yes and I like it, your point is what????
That you don't seem to have anything to say other than, "It's great! I don't have any details, but it's great! And anyone who says otherwise either hasn't played it or is just wrong!"
I'm sorry, but it's boring as mud; there is no significant character progression, there is only the most basic synergy between the classes (and ZERO variation), the rogue is completely unnecessary, and the other classes could be swapped out from any other MMO from the last decade without anyone noticing.
Neverwinter should come in a white box with big, black letters on it that just say, "MMORPG."
Apparently reading is not one of your better traits, where did I say great and where did you ever ask me for my review of the game, I guess there are a lot of wrong players out here and you being the only right one go figure. Actually the rogue class is one of the best if not the best class, again did you play or read other peoples reviews? A rogues plays like a guardian intersting I never thought that, please go troll somewhere else.
Apparently reading is not one of your better traits, where did I say great
Do you want me to link back to half your comments?
Originally posted by Saxonblade
and where did you ever ask me for my review of the game,
I didn't, I've just read your posts.
Originally posted by Saxonblade
I guess there are a lot of wrong players out here and you being the only right one go figure.
As far as I am concerned, yes; why should I care what you think about something if we obviously have radically different preferences?
Originally posted by Saxonblade
Actually the rogue class is one of the best if not the best class, again did you play or read other peoples reviews?
Again, did you? We seem to be referring to 2 completely different games and/or sets of reviews.
Originally posted by Saxonblade
A rogues plays like a guardian intersting I never thought that, please go troll somewhere else.
I'm not sure what you are saying here, but the NW rogue is both boring and unnecessary. I would say that it drags the entire game down, but I'm not sure that it isn't the other way around.
It has a very D&D feel.. i dunno why people bitch so much its not D&D as the game feels like D&D and has lots of familiar characters and names
Where's the D&D feel? Why is my character magically restricted from using different weapons or armour? What happened to multiclassing? Where's the d20? (I demand a d20 somewhere, either in a combat log ala NWN, BG, TOEE or on the screen like in DDO!)
Where are the alignments? What about alignment specific restrictions; Holy etc. weapons? Why do half-orcs and dwarves worship the same deity as elves? Why dont the classes have customization concerning playstyle (no, you can't turn your rogue into a tank [actually, not sure about that] nor can you make your cleric a melee.)
Where are choises? It's again "Do quest" or "Don't do quest"? Not very D&D.
Where's Armor Class and TO HIT rolls? Why are we taking all this damage and then spamming heals? Wasn't it the point to always kind of... you know.. AVOID taking damage? Yes, there's dodging, but there's no point to dodge as rogue if you have a cleric putting HoTs on you.
And most important; What the hell happened to Forgotten Realms in 4th edition?
Apparently reading is not one of your better traits, where did I say great
Do you want me to link back to half your comments?
Originally posted by Saxonblade
and where did you ever ask me for my review of the game,
I didn't, I've just read your posts.
Originally posted by Saxonblade
I guess there are a lot of wrong players out here and you being the only right one go figure.
As far as I am concerned, yes; why should I care what you think about something if we obviously have radically different preferences?
Originally posted by Saxonblade
Actually the rogue class is one of the best if not the best class, again did you play or read other peoples reviews?
Again, did you? We seem to be referring to 2 completely different games and/or sets of reviews.
Originally posted by Saxonblade
A rogues plays like a guardian intersting I never thought that, please go troll somewhere else.
I'm not sure what you are saying here, but the NW rogue is both boring and unnecessary. I would say that it drags the entire game down, but I'm not sure that it isn't the other way around.
Yes please please please show me where I stated this game is great.
I am sorry that I don't hold your opinion of the game, therefore I am wrong because my opinion is not like yours and people like you always know what is best for all of us gamers.
Apparently reading is not one of your better traits, where did I say great
Do you want me to link back to half your comments?
Originally posted by Saxonblade
and where did you ever ask me for my review of the game,
I didn't, I've just read your posts.
Originally posted by Saxonblade
I guess there are a lot of wrong players out here and you being the only right one go figure.
As far as I am concerned, yes; why should I care what you think about something if we obviously have radically different preferences?
Originally posted by Saxonblade
Actually the rogue class is one of the best if not the best class, again did you play or read other peoples reviews?
Again, did you? We seem to be referring to 2 completely different games and/or sets of reviews.
Originally posted by Saxonblade
A rogues plays like a guardian intersting I never thought that, please go troll somewhere else.
I'm not sure what you are saying here, but the NW rogue is both boring and unnecessary. I would say that it drags the entire game down, but I'm not sure that it isn't the other way around.
Yes please please please show me where I stated this game is great.
Originally posted by Saxonblade
Originally posted by codejack
Originally posted by Saxonblade
Have you actually played the game? Just asking...........................................
Have you?
Yes and I like it, your point is what????
Originally posted by Saxonblade
I am sorry that I don't hold your opinion of the game, therefore I am wrong because my opinion is not like yours and people like you always know what is best for all of us gamers.
....and you accused me of a lack of reading comprehension? Or is it that you are being "intentionally obtuse?"
Whatever, that isn't what I said. I said that the decisions that were made concerning this game ARE BAD FOR THE GAME. Whether you or I like it or not is irrelevant except to the extent that it will cause the game to succeed or fail.
The question then becomes: What demographic should the game design appeal to in order to maximize the possibility of success? I submit to you that an MMORPG based on IP with a dedicated following should attempt to appeal to that following rather than the archetypal MMORPG gamer.
Long story short: They made a generic MMORPG with the words "Dungeons & Dragons" stuck to it instead of a D&D game that just happened to be implemented as an MMO.
Originally posted by Fendel84M It's a lot of fun. Definitely not quite an open world mmo as say WoW but it feels like a really awesome ARPG that just happens to be an MMO too.
^ this and feels like a 3rd version of Diablo. Good if you like that style for sure! I like a more open sandbox mmo style personally.
....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!
Honestly, I'm disappointed. The graphics are not what I'd consider good - the character models are just ugly. The animations are jerky and stiff. I hate that you have to go to inspect mode before you can zoom in or out on your avatar. The whole thing just feels clunky and cheap to me.
Long story short: They made a generic MMORPG with the words "Dungeons & Dragons" stuck to it instead of a D&D game that just happened to be implemented as an MMO.
While I enjoyed your /popcorn worthy back and forth... It just seems like you really are intent on disliking NW. Which is fine, but I'm not sure why you are trying so hard to convince us / yourself of how terrible the game is...
Also, Trickster Rogue is extremely fun, and belongs in the game, and I have no idea what you mean by it's 'boring and unnecessary' The game needs classes, obviously, so its not unnecessary at all. And since boring is subjective... I can't argue it but lets be honest, if you don't like an extremely mobile fast paced stealth class... you don't like fun.
Thanks for reading, and I hope you have a wonderful day.
Long story short: They made a generic MMORPG with the words "Dungeons & Dragons" stuck to it instead of a D&D game that just happened to be implemented as an MMO.
While I enjoyed your /popcorn worthy back and forth... It just seems like you really are intent on disliking NW. Which is fine, but I'm not sure why you are trying so hard to convince us / yourself of how terrible the game is...
Actually, I had been drooling over Neverwinter from the time it was announced; I desperately wanted it to be a good game, if for no other reason than so I could finally quit DDO once and for all.
Also, Trickster Rogue is extremely fun, and belongs in the game, and I have no idea what you mean by it's 'boring and unnecessary' The game needs classes, obviously, so its not unnecessary at all. And since boring is subjective... I can't argue it but lets be honest, if you don't like an extremely mobile fast paced stealth class... you don't like fun.
There has to be a need for mobility, speed or stealth for them to be fun.
My problem with the rogue is that it isn't really a rogue, it's a tactics fighter with hide and move silently. Of course, they had to do that since pure rogue is/was almost unheard of in D&D and they got rid of multiclassing, but then they also had to completely change the nature of questing so that you don't need a dedicated rogue.... and you've got a piece of crap game with "Dungeons & Dragons" scrawled across the front page in crayon.
If they had called this game something else and changed all of the names, you wouldn't be hearing a squeak out of me; I would have taken one look at the mechanic, said, "That's not for me, good luck, guys!" and been on my merry way.
But no, they had the gall, the sheer effrontery to call this pile of garbage D&D, Neverwinter no less. Well, they got my hopes up, and now they are reaping the harvest of bitter anguish because they ruined something that lots of people loved.
Moreover, they have pretty well closed off the possibility of anyone making another D&D MMO any time in the foreseeable future, so we're stuck with the mediocre DDO and the atrocious NW.
Thanks for reading, and I hope you have a wonderful day.
It has a very D&D feel.. i dunno why people bitch so much its not D&D as the game feels like D&D and has lots of familiar characters and names
Where's the D&D feel? Why is my character magically restricted from using different weapons or armour? What happened to multiclassing? Where's the d20? (I demand a d20 somewhere, either in a combat log ala NWN, BG, TOEE or on the screen like in DDO!)
Where are the alignments? What about alignment specific restrictions; Holy etc. weapons? Why do half-orcs and dwarves worship the same deity as elves? Why dont the classes have customization concerning playstyle (no, you can't turn your rogue into a tank [actually, not sure about that] nor can you make your cleric a melee.)
Where are choises? It's again "Do quest" or "Don't do quest"? Not very D&D.
Where's Armor Class and TO HIT rolls? Why are we taking all this damage and then spamming heals? Wasn't it the point to always kind of... you know.. AVOID taking damage? Yes, there's dodging, but there's no point to dodge as rogue if you have a cleric putting HoTs on you.
And most important; What the hell happened to Forgotten Realms in 4th edition?
nothing you said makes D&D, D&D to me.. D&D to me is about the stories, the lore, and the dungeon diving. If people can look past their preconceived notions of what D&D should and shouldn't be there is a lot of lore in this game and a fun dungeon diving game with an extremely robust dungeon maker tool. It's nothing everything i'd hope for in a MMO or even a D&D game but all in all its a fun experience travelling through the forgotten realms.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
nothing you said makes D&D, D&D to me.. D&D to me is about the stories, the lore, and the dungeon diving.
...but those would be common to any game that you slapped the title on. You could change the names of the classes and monsters in Guild Wars and call it D&D, and if it was any good, it would fit your description.
What we are missing is the mechanics, the intricate rules that allow you to customize your character to take advantage of certain situations.
What makes my fighter different from yours? By how much? And how do you measure it? What are the odds? How do the statistics break down?
nothing you said makes D&D, D&D to me.. D&D to me is about the stories, the lore, and the dungeon diving. If people can look past their preconceived notions of what D&D should and shouldn't be there is a lot of lore in this game and a fun dungeon diving game with an extremely robust dungeon maker tool. It's nothing everything i'd hope for in a MMO or even a D&D game but all in all its a fun experience travelling through the forgotten realms.
Mhm, that's the beauty of D&D, you see! Something for everyone.
Storytelling and the setting have always been -very- important to me too, but.. As I said, the writers bent Forgotten Realms over and ravaged it with a thirty feet spiked pole. Come on, spell plague and crap and all the stupid changes to lore what once was so amazing.
By the way, talking about storytelling. You say that "nothing I said makes D&D D&D..." Well... Choises aren't part of the storytelling? I understand a linear story, I do, and I approve. But at least give me the illusion of choise, or even better, give me the basic alignment choises.
But then there's the side of tactical combat, what is just amazing in D&D 3.5e. All those little rules... Shame that they've been only included in one computer RPG up to date, that being Temple of Elemental Evil. (But Neverwinter Nights -series handles the combat exceptionally well, the first one especially was just beautiful!) Yes, I want my attack of oppoturnities, defensive fighting, grappling, charge actions, deal nonlethal damage etc. And the whole game is based around that lovely D20! I mean, we cant even make all those dirty jokes if we dont see the die somewhere!
And because we're talking about tactical combat, I also want freedom, to create what characters I wish. I want my rogue/wizards who act as bruisers, wielding greatswords. I want druids what can bend to any "role" at a day's notice! I want rogue/fighters acting as my "tanks"! I want racial disadvantages, bonuses and all the restrictions what make sense. As I said, alignments, cleric domains, class restictions, multiclassing... SPELL LISTS! I also want weapon reaches and "threatened" ranges, which are only shown in TOEE again.
Then again, I also want the massive skill and feat selection of 3.5e.. Even in it's restricted form (ala NWN) it was divine, but the full list would be even better. Yes, there was use for every skill in NWN 2, no matter what you took, it would be of use - of course, some more than others.
And dungeon delving? Come on, what is dungeon delving without d20 and tactical combat? Now that I think about it, I'm starting to miss those narrow, uncomfourtably tight dungeons of Baldur's Gate 1 and Icewind Dale.
The look of the game is great, but I'm having a tough time with the user interface. You turn and move with keys, but you aim the camera with the mouse, and I find it very touchy. I also find the default attack buttons really odd- your first two attacks are programmed to the mouse buttons, and then special attacks are programmed to keys after that. I suppose you can get used to it, but it certainly isn't automatic. Instead of an arrow or mouse pointer, you've got a target circle. I found targetting items to pick up awkward. Also, I'm left handed. I usually reprogram key bindings for movement to my number pad, since I use my left hand for my mouse. I've done that in this game, and I'm still trying to find a comfortable alternate to the left and right mouse buttons for my two primary attacks. Sometimes I think game designers really try too hard to be different when they design their user interface. It really takes away from your initial game experience when you've got to stop and think about the interface with every move you make.
I'm hoping I can find a setup I like, because I want to really get into the meat of the game before I make an overall decision about it. I know I haven't played it far enough into the story yet to make an informed decision.
I'd really like to hear some other peoples comments on the interface, and what they think of it.
nothing you said makes D&D, D&D to me.. D&D to me is about the stories, the lore, and the dungeon diving.
...but those would be common to any game that you slapped the title on. You could change the names of the classes and monsters in Guild Wars and call it D&D, and if it was any good, it would fit your description.
What we are missing is the mechanics, the intricate rules that allow you to customize your character to take advantage of certain situations.
What makes my fighter different from yours? By how much? And how do you measure it? What are the odds? How do the statistics break down?
That's what is missing.
i like robust character customization as much as the next person but i can accept this is an action game this is not a traditional slower paced D&D game.. its loosely based on the 4e edition obviously which is a more streamlined ruleset than previous ones. While yes once I hit 60 and want to play around more with my class I'm sure this will bother me more and more but for now i'm ok with what is there. There is a decent amount of stats to play around with right now and you can pick and choose what type of class you want to play based on that.. For now i'm running all crit gear on my rogue but later I may change it up for more health with health steal instead.. it's not the best customization but it works for now..
The main issue with the current power setup is lack of power options.. they completely overhauled the power system during the final beta weekend to make it closer to the 4e ruleset.. the issue is they don't have enough total powers to make the system really work like its supposed to. If down the road they double the amount of powers it will actually mimic the 4e set nicely.. that and adding a decent amount more classes will help as well..
again i knew this was an action rpg more akin to a 3d diablo set in the forgotten realms world with a very robust dungeon creater that puts to shame pretyy much any other MMOs dungeon maker to date. And i'm pleased with what i got. I could whine all day long it doesn't fit into what I "want" from a D&D game or enjoy what is presented or move on.. for now i'm enjoying what i'am presented as it's actually a lot of damn fun
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I've played in all the beta weekends, and I can say that the game literally has improved a lot over the course of the betas and now into 'soft launch'. They added more and new quests, there are a lot more foundry quests, daily quests, I have yet to encounter a bug or glitch, very little to almost no disconnects or lag issues. A great release if you ask me, probably one of the best I've seen in years apart from other MMO's launches.
nothing you said makes D&D, D&D to me.. D&D to me is about the stories, the lore, and the dungeon diving.
...but those would be common to any game that you slapped the title on. You could change the names of the classes and monsters in Guild Wars and call it D&D, and if it was any good, it would fit your description.
What we are missing is the mechanics, the intricate rules that allow you to customize your character to take advantage of certain situations.
What makes my fighter different from yours? By how much? And how do you measure it? What are the odds? How do the statistics break down?
That's what is missing.
i like robust character customization as much as the next person but i can accept this is an action game this is not a traditional slower paced D&D game.. its loosely based on the 4e edition obviously which is a more streamlined ruleset than previous ones. While yes once I hit 60 and want to play around more with my class I'm sure this will bother me more and more but for now i'm ok with what is there. There is a decent amount of stats to play around with right now and you can pick and choose what type of class you want to play based on that.. For now i'm running all crit gear on my rogue but later I may change it up for more health with health steal instead.. it's not the best customization but it works for now..
The main issue with the current power setup is lack of power options.. they completely overhauled the power system during the final beta weekend to make it closer to the 4e ruleset.. the issue is they don't have enough total powers to make the system really work like its supposed to. If down the road they double the amount of powers it will actually mimic the 4e set nicely.. that and adding a decent amount more classes will help as well..
again i knew this was an action rpg more akin to a 3d diablo set in the forgotten realms world with a very robust dungeon creater that puts to shame pretyy much any other MMOs dungeon maker to date. And i'm pleased with what i got. I could whine all day long it doesn't fit into what I "want" from a D&D game or enjoy what is presented or move on.. for now i'm enjoying what i'am presented as it's actually a lot of damn fun
Yeah, from what I've been reading people are just putting their own thoughts of what something should be as opposed to what it is. If something doesn't have one's thoughts of what it should be, then usually one of several things are happening:
They're comparing it to another game, forgetting that it is a different game entirely (such as people saying a game lacks WoW features, or perhaps what people now consider to be "core" features of a MMO due to WoW).
They looked forward to it because they played a previous DnD game, and are letting nostalgia overtake their judgement and unknowingly subject them to a great amount of bias (somewhat similar to the above point).
They do not understand the difference between different versions or iterations of what is described as DnD over the past few decades.
The list could go on and on, but rather than keep on writing them out, I'll also mention that a lot of good points could be made with regards to it not being a "true" DnD game as per their preferences.
- Lack of neutrality system?
- Lack of multiple classes at launch
- Only three paths per class implemented so far
The list, again, could go on, but I'll be fair and cut it off at three the same as I have above.
But most of the above are nitpicking, and are only really a problem if you really looked forward to the game and your hype/imagination go in the way of what was likely to be reality. The fact that this is a game based in Neverwinter and the Forgotten Coast, but in a hack and slash and dungeon crawl manner that is targeted to be open and available to as many gamers as possible.
The game itself looks like what I would expect out of the next Neverwinter game in terms of graphics and aesthetics. In the last beta they made it so you can pick and choose your abilities as opposed to them just unlocking; you can also then add ranks and classes to each of those abilities. In the beginning you're still able to pick which god you follow, where you hail from, what background you have from where you hail from, roll for your stats, write a profile, etc. In addition it has something that is pivotal for any DnD game to be able to call itself Dungeons and Dragons: A Dungeon Master tool in the form of the Foundry.
Without the ability to craft your own areas / dungeons / maps and allow people to play them, a game cannot rightly call itself Dungeons and Dragons no matter how many of the "small" things it has. This is a problem I had with many DnD games in the past, and why I always thought Neverwinter Nights was one of the best examples of a DnD game around. Though again, this is just from my own preference and I wouldn't dare call a game that doesn't have this (what I feel as a core feature of DnD -- the very soul of a DnD game having the potential for DMs to make their own in depth quests and worlds) a poor excuse for a DnD game, or not a Dungeons and Dragons game in general.
Sometimes DnD needs iteration and or a complete reboot of the way things are done. This is why new editions come out, and new players get hooked. Indeed, a game that is different or caters to a new style or crowd will only allow for more people to enjoy such a thing and expand the universe as a whole.
Why then do we have people who are so strongly against something? Well, I could point to a few reasons above, but what I am more so asking is why are people so dead set about telling other people why they don't think it's a DnD game in their mind? Well, the question could be asked and answered, and I'm not pointing any fingers in this thread in general, but as a whole, I wonder what the case here is. What the thought process is.
Neverwinter is a game that allows me to play DM again, to craft adventures and implement a variety of things. The foundry is an impressive toolset, and has the ability to create puzzles, side quests, main quests and allow for responses from player to NPC or object along with potential consequences. No you won't get permanent effects or long lasting implications, but this is a game about fun and adventure; to build things for others, and play things others have built. To partake in the reimaged world of Neverwinter and see the sights from people who are at their core DMs themselves (the developers) and who allow other DMs to join them with their foundry system.
In closing, it's easy to not like a game if you're truly set on not liking it. If you felt it has betrayed you in some way. There is always something you can find wrong with it and attack to justify how betrayed you feel or how disappointed you are. Hopefully this doesn't occur much in this thread, as it does with many other gaming threads.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Comments
WoW is open world? u sure? cause i rember sititng in town and never leaving xD
GW2 is significantly more exploratory than NW. The upside though is that NW characters have a much greater life expectancy than GW2.
Yes and I like it, your point is what????
So, broadly speaking then, it sounds like Neverwinter is no better or worse than any other AAA MMO of the last 2 years ? Most of them seemed to lose 50%+ of their starter players after the "first few weeks".
That you don't seem to have anything to say other than, "It's great! I don't have any details, but it's great! And anyone who says otherwise either hasn't played it or is just wrong!"
I'm sorry, but it's boring as mud; there is no significant character progression, there is only the most basic synergy between the classes (and ZERO variation), the rogue is completely unnecessary, and the other classes could be swapped out from any other MMO from the last decade without anyone noticing.
Neverwinter should come in a white box with big, black letters on it that just say, "MMORPG."
First few days*
People log in on launch day, do a few quests, and never log in again.
No game can hold 100% of people you know?
Apparently reading is not one of your better traits, where did I say great and where did you ever ask me for my review of the game, I guess there are a lot of wrong players out here and you being the only right one go figure. Actually the rogue class is one of the best if not the best class, again did you play or read other peoples reviews? A rogues plays like a guardian intersting I never thought that, please go troll somewhere else.
Do you want me to link back to half your comments?
I didn't, I've just read your posts.
As far as I am concerned, yes; why should I care what you think about something if we obviously have radically different preferences?
Again, did you? We seem to be referring to 2 completely different games and/or sets of reviews.
I'm not sure what you are saying here, but the NW rogue is both boring and unnecessary. I would say that it drags the entire game down, but I'm not sure that it isn't the other way around.
Where's the D&D feel? Why is my character magically restricted from using different weapons or armour? What happened to multiclassing? Where's the d20? (I demand a d20 somewhere, either in a combat log ala NWN, BG, TOEE or on the screen like in DDO!)
Where are the alignments? What about alignment specific restrictions; Holy etc. weapons? Why do half-orcs and dwarves worship the same deity as elves? Why dont the classes have customization concerning playstyle (no, you can't turn your rogue into a tank [actually, not sure about that] nor can you make your cleric a melee.)
Where are choises? It's again "Do quest" or "Don't do quest"? Not very D&D.
Where's Armor Class and TO HIT rolls? Why are we taking all this damage and then spamming heals? Wasn't it the point to always kind of... you know.. AVOID taking damage? Yes, there's dodging, but there's no point to dodge as rogue if you have a cleric putting HoTs on you.
And most important; What the hell happened to Forgotten Realms in 4th edition?
We?re all dead, just say it.
Yes please please please show me where I stated this game is great.
I am sorry that I don't hold your opinion of the game, therefore I am wrong because my opinion is not like yours and people like you always know what is best for all of us gamers.
....and you accused me of a lack of reading comprehension? Or is it that you are being "intentionally obtuse?"
Whatever, that isn't what I said. I said that the decisions that were made concerning this game ARE BAD FOR THE GAME. Whether you or I like it or not is irrelevant except to the extent that it will cause the game to succeed or fail.
The question then becomes: What demographic should the game design appeal to in order to maximize the possibility of success? I submit to you that an MMORPG based on IP with a dedicated following should attempt to appeal to that following rather than the archetypal MMORPG gamer.
Long story short: They made a generic MMORPG with the words "Dungeons & Dragons" stuck to it instead of a D&D game that just happened to be implemented as an MMO.
^ this and feels like a 3rd version of Diablo. Good if you like that style for sure! I like a more open sandbox mmo style personally.
....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!
Honestly, I'm disappointed. The graphics are not what I'd consider good - the character models are just ugly. The animations are jerky and stiff. I hate that you have to go to inspect mode before you can zoom in or out on your avatar. The whole thing just feels clunky and cheap to me.
I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.
While I enjoyed your /popcorn worthy back and forth... It just seems like you really are intent on disliking NW. Which is fine, but I'm not sure why you are trying so hard to convince us / yourself of how terrible the game is...
Also, Trickster Rogue is extremely fun, and belongs in the game, and I have no idea what you mean by it's 'boring and unnecessary' The game needs classes, obviously, so its not unnecessary at all. And since boring is subjective... I can't argue it but lets be honest, if you don't like an extremely mobile fast paced stealth class... you don't like fun.
Thanks for reading, and I hope you have a wonderful day.
Actually, I had been drooling over Neverwinter from the time it was announced; I desperately wanted it to be a good game, if for no other reason than so I could finally quit DDO once and for all.
There has to be a need for mobility, speed or stealth for them to be fun.
My problem with the rogue is that it isn't really a rogue, it's a tactics fighter with hide and move silently. Of course, they had to do that since pure rogue is/was almost unheard of in D&D and they got rid of multiclassing, but then they also had to completely change the nature of questing so that you don't need a dedicated rogue.... and you've got a piece of crap game with "Dungeons & Dragons" scrawled across the front page in crayon.
If they had called this game something else and changed all of the names, you wouldn't be hearing a squeak out of me; I would have taken one look at the mechanic, said, "That's not for me, good luck, guys!" and been on my merry way.
But no, they had the gall, the sheer effrontery to call this pile of garbage D&D, Neverwinter no less. Well, they got my hopes up, and now they are reaping the harvest of bitter anguish because they ruined something that lots of people loved.
Moreover, they have pretty well closed off the possibility of anyone making another D&D MMO any time in the foreseeable future, so we're stuck with the mediocre DDO and the atrocious NW.
You too!
nothing you said makes D&D, D&D to me.. D&D to me is about the stories, the lore, and the dungeon diving. If people can look past their preconceived notions of what D&D should and shouldn't be there is a lot of lore in this game and a fun dungeon diving game with an extremely robust dungeon maker tool. It's nothing everything i'd hope for in a MMO or even a D&D game but all in all its a fun experience travelling through the forgotten realms.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
...but those would be common to any game that you slapped the title on. You could change the names of the classes and monsters in Guild Wars and call it D&D, and if it was any good, it would fit your description.
What we are missing is the mechanics, the intricate rules that allow you to customize your character to take advantage of certain situations.
What makes my fighter different from yours? By how much? And how do you measure it? What are the odds? How do the statistics break down?
That's what is missing.
Mhm, that's the beauty of D&D, you see! Something for everyone.
Storytelling and the setting have always been -very- important to me too, but.. As I said, the writers bent Forgotten Realms over and ravaged it with a thirty feet spiked pole. Come on, spell plague and crap and all the stupid changes to lore what once was so amazing.
By the way, talking about storytelling. You say that "nothing I said makes D&D D&D..." Well... Choises aren't part of the storytelling? I understand a linear story, I do, and I approve. But at least give me the illusion of choise, or even better, give me the basic alignment choises.
But then there's the side of tactical combat, what is just amazing in D&D 3.5e. All those little rules... Shame that they've been only included in one computer RPG up to date, that being Temple of Elemental Evil. (But Neverwinter Nights -series handles the combat exceptionally well, the first one especially was just beautiful!) Yes, I want my attack of oppoturnities, defensive fighting, grappling, charge actions, deal nonlethal damage etc. And the whole game is based around that lovely D20! I mean, we cant even make all those dirty jokes if we dont see the die somewhere!
And because we're talking about tactical combat, I also want freedom, to create what characters I wish. I want my rogue/wizards who act as bruisers, wielding greatswords. I want druids what can bend to any "role" at a day's notice! I want rogue/fighters acting as my "tanks"! I want racial disadvantages, bonuses and all the restrictions what make sense. As I said, alignments, cleric domains, class restictions, multiclassing... SPELL LISTS! I also want weapon reaches and "threatened" ranges, which are only shown in TOEE again.
Then again, I also want the massive skill and feat selection of 3.5e.. Even in it's restricted form (ala NWN) it was divine, but the full list would be even better. Yes, there was use for every skill in NWN 2, no matter what you took, it would be of use - of course, some more than others.
And dungeon delving? Come on, what is dungeon delving without d20 and tactical combat? Now that I think about it, I'm starting to miss those narrow, uncomfourtably tight dungeons of Baldur's Gate 1 and Icewind Dale.
We?re all dead, just say it.
The look of the game is great, but I'm having a tough time with the user interface. You turn and move with keys, but you aim the camera with the mouse, and I find it very touchy. I also find the default attack buttons really odd- your first two attacks are programmed to the mouse buttons, and then special attacks are programmed to keys after that. I suppose you can get used to it, but it certainly isn't automatic. Instead of an arrow or mouse pointer, you've got a target circle. I found targetting items to pick up awkward. Also, I'm left handed. I usually reprogram key bindings for movement to my number pad, since I use my left hand for my mouse. I've done that in this game, and I'm still trying to find a comfortable alternate to the left and right mouse buttons for my two primary attacks. Sometimes I think game designers really try too hard to be different when they design their user interface. It really takes away from your initial game experience when you've got to stop and think about the interface with every move you make.
I'm hoping I can find a setup I like, because I want to really get into the meat of the game before I make an overall decision about it. I know I haven't played it far enough into the story yet to make an informed decision.
I'd really like to hear some other peoples comments on the interface, and what they think of it.
i like robust character customization as much as the next person but i can accept this is an action game this is not a traditional slower paced D&D game.. its loosely based on the 4e edition obviously which is a more streamlined ruleset than previous ones. While yes once I hit 60 and want to play around more with my class I'm sure this will bother me more and more but for now i'm ok with what is there. There is a decent amount of stats to play around with right now and you can pick and choose what type of class you want to play based on that.. For now i'm running all crit gear on my rogue but later I may change it up for more health with health steal instead.. it's not the best customization but it works for now..
The main issue with the current power setup is lack of power options.. they completely overhauled the power system during the final beta weekend to make it closer to the 4e ruleset.. the issue is they don't have enough total powers to make the system really work like its supposed to. If down the road they double the amount of powers it will actually mimic the 4e set nicely.. that and adding a decent amount more classes will help as well..
again i knew this was an action rpg more akin to a 3d diablo set in the forgotten realms world with a very robust dungeon creater that puts to shame pretyy much any other MMOs dungeon maker to date. And i'm pleased with what i got. I could whine all day long it doesn't fit into what I "want" from a D&D game or enjoy what is presented or move on.. for now i'm enjoying what i'am presented as it's actually a lot of damn fun
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Yeah, from what I've been reading people are just putting their own thoughts of what something should be as opposed to what it is. If something doesn't have one's thoughts of what it should be, then usually one of several things are happening: