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All this in 1 month!

2

Comments

  • SmikisSmikis VilniusPosts: 1,045Member
    take any rts, more than 500 characters with about 20 times more details, that tech demo is poor attempt to fool you
  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,296Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by simsalabim77
    Originally posted by taurak
    Originally posted by chaintm

    I am 47 and a coder sense I was 17, does this make my opinion better then a student? No. the fact remains it's OPINIONS!

    Technically speaking, no I am not impressed, it's a simple as that, there are many factors that go into 3d envoriments and having a skelton demo of one is not impressive beyond only one fact, "the guy can code" , ok good step, but if this is suppose to impress I don't see it. Maybe for you because of the obvious fan of the concept and who is leading, but beyond that, ok.. so you like it, we don't see it. Point moot.

     

    Well if you want to go that route, lets see you create a custom engine that runs 500 unique 12000 polygon characters with spell effects on a networked environment in under a month.

    What I'm saying here is, thats somethign that Blizzard couldnt do in what 8 years?

    100 WoW models, 2000 polygons max, and my alienware aurora r4 won't even make that game run at 100 fps on LOW graphics settings.

     

     

    There wasn't even a real enviroment drawn. I didn't see any particle effects either. It was some guys running around on some shitty looking grass. Maybe that's impressive to someone with the technical knowledge to appreciate that type of thing, but to a guy like me that just plays games, it looked like total crap. 

    Maybe I just don't understand this whole Kickstarter thing, but I feel like if someone wants my money, they need to be prepared to show me something that warrants me giving it to them. So far, CU seems like it's been a big improvisation from the get-go. Is this usually how Kickstarters are run? 

    I'd have to say no, this isnt how most 'successful' kickstarter projects are run, its just that its about to run out of time and they havent made funding goals, so there is a certain amount of 'desperate measures' taking place now to try and gain some last minute funding, probably won't happen, perhaps its for the best, most people want to see a bit more proof of concept before investing in something, and CU was mostly just concept and very little proof.image

  • HatefullHatefull Posts: 774Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by chaintm

    I am 47 and a coder sense I was 17, does this make my opinion better then a student? No. the fact remains it's OPINIONS!

    Technically speaking, no I am not impressed, it's a simple as that, there are many factors that go into 3d envoriments and having a skelton demo of one is not impressive beyond only one fact, "the guy can code" , ok good step, but if this is suppose to impress I don't see it. Maybe for you because of the obvious fan of the concept and who is leading, but beyond that, ok.. so you like it, we don't see it. Point moot.

     

    I tend to agree with you here.  Having no emotional investment in the game, one way or another, I would say yeah, great coding, but in the greater scheme of things, not all the impressive.

    To put it another way;

    Not  fanboi, nor a hater at this point, just an observer, and so far what I have observed is nothing special.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • tauraktaurak rock cave, WVPosts: 174Member
    Originally posted by Smikis
    take any rts, more than 500 characters with about 20 times more details, that tech demo is poor attempt to fool you

    Are you friggin kidding me?

    Show me a rts that has 500 12000 polygon models at once.

    Show me an RTS that has anything close to 12000 polygon models even.

    Seriously dude, what game are you talking about because I want to see it!

     

    And once again, the streaming video for CU is not 1080p, a huge mistake really.

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained/posts?page=5

    This video at 8 minutes, the walking st'rm model is the only clear definition video of the character models available, unless someone else did a livestream of their networked demo at 1080p.

    It was way more defined than you think.

  • ArakaziArakazi OxfordPosts: 889Member
    Yeah, I could show you a youtube video with some good framerates and millions of polygons with "unlimited detail" too. I'd rather wait till the finnish environments and collision detection as well as the textures etc. before judging.
  • MukeMuke BredaPosts: 2,172Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by taurak

    Guys think about this for a minute.

    In one month, all of this has happened.

    Andrew made an engine that smokes the crap out of most, in 1 month. Not to mention thats with 500 models on the screen vs the usual 20-40.

    If any other game's engine had 100 characters at once, it would fall flat on its face, and you all know that. Hell in games like WoW, CoD, BF, every other game I can think of, I've never had 400 fps, and my PC is not a slouch.

    I have a 580 gtx card, a 3.3 ghz processor that runs at 12 cores, 16 gigs ram. Its not the best, but its pretty top of the line.

    We have 3 character models, fully fleshed out, rendered, animated, and ready to go.

    We have a workable building system demo, that is simply amazing.

    We have the depths, just a  concept at this point, but it will go in the game.

     

    Just think about it guys, this is one month, with a small Dev team. I am a firm believer that Quality is better than Quantity, and CU has the A-Team for making this game.

    Andrew is a boss. MJ is a boss. The concept artists are friggin awesome. Andrew and MJ are in complete control of Development, alongside all of us backers to help them make choices, and introducde new ideas.

    All this stuff in 1 month guys.

    Just imagine what this game is going to be like in 2 years!

    2 years to optimize the engine, develop a killer combat system, because lets face it, these guys are seasoned veterans in the dev world, they will not allow poor combat. 2 years to refine the character models, to texture them, to make them perfect.

    With all this work in 1 month, which right now it smokes all games on the market from a gameplay perspective, when this product is finished it i going to be a finely edge sword that will carve its way to the hearts of all PvP players around the world.

    This is THE game. It is the most innovative game to be proposed in many years.

    From having PvP in the place of PvE, to the innovative crafting, to the changing world based on which realm controll it, to the veil storms which can destroy our world, the crafter class, the depths, support for huge battles as a foundation, no item drops, the list goes on and on of things that have never been done in an MMORPG before.

    The game is engineered to be fun! Not just to be a grindfest!

    You don't have to go out and grind honor points for gear. You don't have to grind instances for gear.

    All you will have to do is turn on the game, and start playing, whatever way you want to. You can immediately go craft, or go PvP.

    I urge all of you that are on the fence to go watch all the kickstarter videos, and all the livestream videos. Give this game a chance. There is a lot of information around, and most of your questions can be answered.

    MJ is a genius with game ideas, and this is only 1 month! Imagine what it is going to be like in the future! And with the tech demos they have, running 500 characters at 400FPS on a mediocre laptop, they have proven that they CAN deliver what they have promised.

     

    99% promises......I jump on the fanboi wagon when I see a actually working client. :)

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • tawesstawess LkpgPosts: 2,537Member Uncommon

    It is a good start, thats for sure.

     

    But intil i see the following in one scene i'l be very carefull with any proclamation of the seconc coming.

     

    1: Fully realised and textured enviorment

    2: Fully fleshed out animations

    3: Full set of player models with different gear and  effects

    4: Working skybox

    5: Fully renderd effects

     

    If they still can cram out 200+ real players on real connections with real computers (not just cherrypicked for their compability) with all that in place, then i will be impressed.

     

    But as it looks right now... In a month... CU will be gone.

  • skyexileskyexile MelbournePosts: 692Member


    Originally posted by Smikis
    take any rts, more than 500 characters with about 20 times more details, that tech demo is poor attempt to fool you

    lolololol, 240k poly models in an RTS, can i borrow your delorian bro?

    you know current gen engines run 12000 poly models and next gen like unreal 4 run only 20k right?

    SKYeXile
    TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
    Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

  • MukeMuke BredaPosts: 2,172Member Uncommon

    TO get excited, I would like to see:

    -a working client with UI.

    -the above on a 50-200 ping connection, NOT at 0 ping ran on an internal network on a supercomputer.

    -trailers of the above game without cinematics, because movie trailers are not representative for gameplay.

     

    I want CU to succeed as I loved daoc back then, but I have seen too many developers shout stuff in the past and not deliver.

    I hope this one can, however.

     

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • xeniarxeniar Posts: 805Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Muke

    TO get excited, I would like to see:

    -a working client with UI.

    -the above on a 50-200 ping connection, NOT at 0 ping ran on an internal network on a supercomputer.

    -trailers of the above game without cinematics, because movie trailers are not representative for gameplay.

     

    I want CU to succeed as I loved daoc back then, but I have seen too many developers shout stuff in the past and not deliver.

    I hope this one can, however.

     

    What Muke said.

    Id love the idea's being flung around the entire concept off it etc.

    But im not gonna trow money at ideas. What he should have done is work on the project a year or 2 and then kickstarter when he actually has something to show. This is just stupidity.

  • skyexileskyexile MelbournePosts: 692Member


    Originally posted by Muke
    TO get excited, I would like to see:-a working client with UI.-the above on a 50-200 ping connection, NOT at 0 ping ran on an internal network on a supercomputer.-trailers of the above game without cinematics, because movie trailers are not representative for gameplay. I want CU to succeed as I loved daoc back then, but I have seen too many developers shout stuff in the past and not deliver.I hope this one can, however. 

    its run on a macbook bro. not exactly state of the art.


    SKYeXile
    TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
    Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

  • MkilbrideMkilbride Hooksett, NHPosts: 637Member Uncommon
    A 2011 MBP, to be exact. Kinda old.

    Help get Camelot Unchained made, a old-school MMORPG, with no hand holding!

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained

  • meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon

    I have a hard time taking things like a 400 fps at face value at least until I can play it on my own computer and benchmark it with a 3rd party program such as FRAPS. I'm not saying it's fake but it's easy to make a coding mistake and multiply by 100 when you meant to multiply by 10 for instance. That Andrew could slap together a better engine than the rest of the industry has been able to create and all in a few weeks is either marketing BS or the most amazing feat of coding ever. I don't think we'll really know which until we get into the middle beta stages when we have something close to a real game to play and see the FPS for that.

    Fps is very important but it's not everything. And there's only so large fights can get before they aren't any fun to play in even at 400 fps. 500 player fights should be fairly rare, so you don't need extremely high fps for them. If medium spec systems can handle those at 30 fps and higher, you've done your job. If they can handle them at much higher frame rates, then you have room to make the graphics look better.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • MkilbrideMkilbride Hooksett, NHPosts: 637Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by meddyck

    I have a hard time taking things like a 400 fps at face value at least until I can play it on my own computer and benchmark it with a 3rd party program such as FRAPS. I'm not saying it's fake but it's easy to make a coding mistake and multiply by 100 when you meant to multiply by 10 for instance. That Andrew could slap together a better engine than the rest of the industry has been able to create and all in a few weeks is either marketing BS or the most amazing feat of coding ever. I don't think we'll really know which until we get into the middle beta stages when we have something close to a real game to play and see the FPS for that.

    Fps is very important but it's not everything. And there's only so large fights can get before they aren't any fun to play in even at 400 fps. 500 player fights should be fairly rare, so you don't need extremely high fps for them. If medium spec systems can handle those at 30 fps and higher, you've done your job. If they can handle them at much higher frame rates, then you have room to make the graphics look better.

    Uh, do you realize all of us played, right? They had a tech demo, anyone could come.

     

    Had 118 people playing it. We actually played it. I measured it with fraps, I measured it with MSI Afterburner, I measured it wtih EVGA Precision...ect

     

    I measured it in several ways, GPU usage, CPU usage - made good use of them all. Native DX11.

     

    Help get Camelot Unchained made, a old-school MMORPG, with no hand holding!

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained

  • mari3kmari3k erger, AKPosts: 135Member

    Well who cares, game is not gonna be founded. 

    Nobody will trust this liers again.

    Step in the arena and break the wall down

  • MkilbrideMkilbride Hooksett, NHPosts: 637Member Uncommon

    What? You're not even making sense. When did they lie?

     

    And how come when youi were proven wrong, you say "It doesn't matter" ?

     

     

    Help get Camelot Unchained made, a old-school MMORPG, with no hand holding!

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    That's what children / fox news presenters do.

    Stick their fingers in their ears and go lalalalalala when they're proved wrong.
  • meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mkilbride

    Uh, do you realize all of us played, right? They had a tech demo, anyone could come.

     Had 118 people playing it. We actually played it. I measured it with fraps, I measured it with MSI Afterburner, I measured it wtih EVGA Precision...ect

     I measured it in several ways, GPU usage, CPU usage - made good use of them all. Native DX11.

    Yeah that's a tech demo. Let's see the fps when it's an actual game.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon
    I'm not a techie, but I am a skeptic. Some of what is being said does sound pretty incredible, but to think they are doing something with MMO engine performance so far above and beyond the best the entire industry has done before is hard to accept.

    If really true they likely could make more money selling the engine technology than creating CU.

    Where's Quizzical when you need him?

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • Ramonski7Ramonski7 Aurora, ILPosts: 2,656Member Uncommon
    All this sounds wonderful if you're trying to showcase a new mmorpg engine for the next generation developer. You could even name it the Tri-Realm Engine! Then get all the leading mmo developers to chime in, hype it up as well and even if you don't get funding for the flagship game you want to showcase the engine with, the hard work is done and you've at least established yourself in the minds of thousands of backers that what they have just experienced is nothing short of the birth of a new franchise. Game engine franchise that is...

    image
    "Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko RotterdamPosts: 3,845Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    I'm not a techie, but I am a skeptic. Some of what is being said does sound pretty incredible, but to think they are doing something with MMO engine performance so far above and beyond the best the entire industry has done before is hard to accept.

    If really true they likely could make more money selling the engine technology than creating CU.

    Where's Quizzical when you need him?

    I'm also in the sceptic camp.

     

    So Andrew Meggs is an industry veteran (who should therefore have many good connections) who has created an absolutely kick-ass MMO engine, yet he chooses to donate this amazing creation to a niche game that has so few supporters that it's struggling to meet even its initial funding target ?

     

    Hell, if the engine's THAT awesome and groundbreaking, he could license it to a few other companies and the money it will earn will probably fund the ENTIRE development budget for CU. They'd not even need Kickstarter.

  • theDukeytheDukey s, FLPosts: 97Member Uncommon

    The amount of fanboyism in this thread is pathetic.  The tech demo was pathetic.  It was not impressive at all, it shows that the guy can write code, thats it.  Its crazy how some people hear someone throw out a few words that would seem fancy to them, and they believe it like its the absolute truth.  Its as basic as it can get, because thats the stage they are at.  why are people talking like this game isnt coming out in 2015.  its at least 2 years out.  having a few character models on an extremely low res patch of grass will give anyone 1000+ fps.  Theres nothing else being rendered.  NOTHING.

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by taurak
    Originally posted by chaintm

    I am 47 and a coder sense I was 17, does this make my opinion better then a student? No. the fact remains it's OPINIONS!

    Technically speaking, no I am not impressed, it's a simple as that, there are many factors that go into 3d envoriments and having a skelton demo of one is not impressive beyond only one fact, "the guy can code" , ok good step, but if this is suppose to impress I don't see it. Maybe for you because of the obvious fan of the concept and who is leading, but beyond that, ok.. so you like it, we don't see it. Point moot.

     

    Well if you want to go that route, lets see you create a custom engine that runs 500 unique 12000 polygon characters with spell effects on a networked environment in under a month.

    What I'm saying here is, thats somethign that Blizzard couldnt do in what 8 years?

    100 WoW models, 2000 polygons max, and my alienware aurora r4 won't even make that game run at 100 fps on LOW graphics settings.

     

    Dude.... keep in mind many of us here actually work in the industry in one form or another. There are several devs on this site as well as programmers, animators, modellers, and so on. 

    As far as doing something like that in a month... I could do a demo like that in a day. 

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7FQvDVtjOY

    Hell, you could do it in blender if you wanted with the Blender People script and bang out a demo like the one shown in an hour that would run just as well if not close since theres nothing else there. 

    All they did was take a plane and morph it a little, slapped on a crapy grass texture (Basically pasted a picture of grass on the plane) and added in some awful looking models with slight variations. Theres nothing else there not even a skybox. I would hope it would run well considering. If it didn't then that would make it the most unoptimized engine in the last 5 to 10 years. 

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,870Member Uncommon


    Amusement is relative, dependent by large margin on ignorance and foolishness of the audience.

  • TokenaruTokenaru Austin, TXPosts: 58Member
    lol @ graphics
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