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All this in 1 month!

tauraktaurak rock cave, WVPosts: 174Member

Guys think about this for a minute.

In one month, all of this has happened.

Andrew made an engine that smokes the crap out of most, in 1 month. Not to mention thats with 500 models on the screen vs the usual 20-40.

If any other game's engine had 100 characters at once, it would fall flat on its face, and you all know that. Hell in games like WoW, CoD, BF, every other game I can think of, I've never had 400 fps, and my PC is not a slouch.

I have a 580 gtx card, a 3.3 ghz processor that runs at 12 cores, 16 gigs ram. Its not the best, but its pretty top of the line.

We have 3 character models, fully fleshed out, rendered, animated, and ready to go.

We have a workable building system demo, that is simply amazing.

We have the depths, just a  concept at this point, but it will go in the game.

 

Just think about it guys, this is one month, with a small Dev team. I am a firm believer that Quality is better than Quantity, and CU has the A-Team for making this game.

Andrew is a boss. MJ is a boss. The concept artists are friggin awesome. Andrew and MJ are in complete control of Development, alongside all of us backers to help them make choices, and introducde new ideas.

All this stuff in 1 month guys.

Just imagine what this game is going to be like in 2 years!

2 years to optimize the engine, develop a killer combat system, because lets face it, these guys are seasoned veterans in the dev world, they will not allow poor combat. 2 years to refine the character models, to texture them, to make them perfect.

With all this work in 1 month, which right now it smokes all games on the market from a gameplay perspective, when this product is finished it i going to be a finely edge sword that will carve its way to the hearts of all PvP players around the world.

This is THE game. It is the most innovative game to be proposed in many years.

From having PvP in the place of PvE, to the innovative crafting, to the changing world based on which realm controll it, to the veil storms which can destroy our world, the crafter class, the depths, support for huge battles as a foundation, no item drops, the list goes on and on of things that have never been done in an MMORPG before.

The game is engineered to be fun! Not just to be a grindfest!

You don't have to go out and grind honor points for gear. You don't have to grind instances for gear.

All you will have to do is turn on the game, and start playing, whatever way you want to. You can immediately go craft, or go PvP.

I urge all of you that are on the fence to go watch all the kickstarter videos, and all the livestream videos. Give this game a chance. There is a lot of information around, and most of your questions can be answered.

MJ is a genius with game ideas, and this is only 1 month! Imagine what it is going to be like in the future! And with the tech demos they have, running 500 characters at 400FPS on a mediocre laptop, they have proven that they CAN deliver what they have promised.

 

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Comments

  • Niix_OzekNiix_Ozek Calgary, ABPosts: 397Member
    In 1 month

    Ozek - DAOC
    Niix - Other games that sucked

  • chrissreefchrissreef Los Angeles, CAPosts: 24Member
    I agree... just wish they spent the 1 month investing in all that to put together a good promo vid... I'm having a hard time asking people to watch 20 separate vids
  • KirinRahlKirinRahl New Smyrna Beach, FLPosts: 153Member

    The number of characters onscreen is impressive, but I highly recommend you do not take that as an indicator of quality in itself.

    It's a zillion characters, that's true enough... without real AI, without any kind of physics to keep them from walking through each other, with a total of two character models, without any apparent networking going on to make all of those character models tell a server where to go from remote.

    This is a cool step, but it is not as big a step as you might hope.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm excited for Camelot Unchained, but do not go all-in on the strength of a server.  Instanced rendering does not a crazy-wonderful game make; it's not like they have to have fifteen tiers' worth of armor sets all animating properly on all those models all at the same time.  Two sets of clothes.  No action other than moving from A to B.  No interaction whatsoever with other characters.

    So.  Grain of salt, you know?

  • BoldynBoldyn PartillePosts: 265Member
    Originally posted by taurak

     

    Andrew made an engine that smokes the crap out of most

    Computer says noooo.....

  • KappenWizKappenWiz Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 162Member
    Originally posted by KirinRahl

    The number of characters onscreen is impressive, but I highly recommend you do not take that as an indicator of quality in itself.

    It's a zillion characters, that's true enough... without real AI, without any kind of physics to keep them from walking through each other, with a total of two character models, without any apparent networking going on to make all of those character models tell a server where to go from remote.

    This is a cool step, but it is not as big a step as you might hope.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm excited for Camelot Unchained, but do not go all-in on the strength of a server.  Instanced rendering does not a crazy-wonderful game make; it's not like they have to have fifteen tiers' worth of armor sets all animating properly on all those models all at the same time.  Two sets of clothes.  No action other than moving from A to B.  No interaction whatsoever with other characters.

    So.  Grain of salt, you know?

    Just to correct a few things:

    • They had collision detection in the latest build. There was CD for enemies but pass through for own side.
    • The characters are being individually called and drawn, they're not 1 model and 100 copies. It's being rendered as if they're calling 101 unique characters. True, there are fewer meshes to have to sort through, but as for the rendering, it's not two models. Every one is uniquely drawn.
    • They had the latest build, with particle effects, player collision, and a basic capture the node game running world wide on the engine and network CSE built in the last month or two. Anyone with a directx 11 card could get in to the game via a link they posted to their server.
    • Everyone had a basic attack and a health bar. You could damage and "kill" anyone from the other side.
    • There was very little network optimization.
    This demo was running at 500-600 FPS with 118 people playing around the world.
     
     
     
  • MkilbrideMkilbride Hooksett, NHPosts: 637Member Uncommon

    Yeah, I was playing the demo they released.

     

    With about 118 people, I still had around 1100-1400FPS and it was only using one of my GPU's

     

    There was CD, there was particles, and minor physics, nothing huge, but there was some.

     

    Granted, ocne we get all the other stuff in there - sure, expect that to be a fraction. Still, considering this is due to be released in nearly 2016(December 2015), Hardware is going to be much more powerful by then. Given how it runs so good on current hardware...

     

    Also, there was no LOD or culling in the test. Which meant 118, 12K poly models, with particle effects, minor physics, and players playing them. Over 1000FPS.

     

    Impressive for something that'll only go up in performance, even accounting for the stuff they'll add.

    Help get Camelot Unchained made, a old-school MMORPG, with no hand holding!

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained

  • LobotomistLobotomist ZagrebPosts: 5,053Member Uncommon

    @OP

    Sorry to break your excitement, but.

    They have shown 500 same player models.

     

    Problem with MMOs is that every player is different. From hair , eyes , skin color to equipment , weapons , even skill choices.

    This is what makes the  slow down.

    500 of same characters exuals 500*500*500 in real time MMO.

     

    In single player.

    Heck even old Serios Sam was able to show over 10000 models in same scene without any slowdown , on custom engine and super old PC.

    image

  • tauraktaurak rock cave, WVPosts: 174Member
    Originally posted by Lobotomist

    @OP

    Sorry to break your excitement, but.

    They have shown 500 same player models.

     

    Problem with MMOs is that every player is different. From hair , eyes , skin color to equipment , weapons , even skill choices.

    This is what makes the  slow down.

    500 of same characters exuals 500*500*500 in real time MMO.

     

    In single player.

    Heck even old Serios Sam was able to show over 10000 models in same scene without any slowdown , on custom engine and super old PC.

    They are not the same models.

    They are all unique, as Andrew has said in every livestream he has done. They look the same, but each character in his demo is rendered in a way where they are all different. Its not a redner one render all demo. If they were all exactly the same he could probably run 2000+ at 400+ fps, because once you render one fully you don't have to render it again. That is why the fps drops sometimes in his demo, it has to render the new models.

  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by KappenWiz

    This demo was running at 500-600 FPS with 118 people playing around the world.  


    Yeah...thats to be expected when it has 90's quality graphics coupled with the advances in computer hardware...

    Seriously tho, I dont see any milestone here.

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • KappenWizKappenWiz Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 162Member
    Originally posted by Nitth

     


    Originally posted by KappenWiz

     

    This demo was running at 500-600 FPS with 118 people playing around the world.  


     

    Yeah...thats to be expected when it has 90's quality graphics coupled with the advances in computer hardware...

    Seriously tho, I dont see any milestone here.

    That's your call. I was only correcting misinformation, which was egregious.

    The animations aren't finished, but each character had 12000 polys in it. Over 10,000 is generally considered a high poly count for a character, even today.

    These were the specs of the computer Andrew recorded the stream (http://www.twitch.tv/citystategames/b/396102196) on:

    • Model Name:MacBook Pro
    • Model Identifier:MacBookPro8,2
    • Processor Name:Intel Core i7
    • Processor Speed:2.3 GHz
    • Number of Processors:1
    • Total Number of Cores:4
    • L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB
    • Resolution: 1400x900 with 4X AA and 4X AT
     
  • MkilbrideMkilbride Hooksett, NHPosts: 637Member Uncommon

    Nitth

     

    Because you're not a techie. You didn't watch Andrews streams, his videos, where he explains the tech. You didn't see other MMO developers praising how amazing they thought it was.

     

    Clearly you know more than Andrew Meggs and other Veteran MMO Industry members.

    Help get Camelot Unchained made, a old-school MMORPG, with no hand holding!

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained

  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Mkilbride
    Nitth Because you're not a techie. You didn't watch Andrews streams, his videos, where he explains the tech. You didn't see other MMO developers praising how amazing they thought it was. Clearly you know more than Andrew Meggs and other Veteran MMO Industry members.

    I'm a software engineering student. I have a fair idea about what goes on behind the scenes.

    Your right, I havnt seen his work or code, But this is just not mindblowing.

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • MkilbrideMkilbride Hooksett, NHPosts: 637Member Uncommon

    A student.

     

    Andrew Meggs is a Veteran. Torment people are Veterans. Archarge people are Veterans.

     

    They all think it's impressive. But I guess you're right - like a doctor, a coder fresh out of school is better than one working in it for 10+ years.

    Help get Camelot Unchained made, a old-school MMORPG, with no hand holding!

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained

  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Mkilbride
    A student.

     

    Andrew Meggs is a Veteran. Torment people are Veterans. Archarge people are Veterans.

     

    They all think it's impressive. But I guess you're right - like a doctor, a coder fresh out of school is better than one working in it for 10+ years.



    And there all in bed with each other trying to market the products, inxile with obsidian, inXile with kicking it forward, inxile with this.

    Trying to generate good hype by doing a testimonials.

    Think what you want of me, but im sure 8/10 people that watch this wont find it spectacular.

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • GaladournGaladourn AthensPosts: 1,052Member
    guys, this Meggs guy, if you check his credentials in Linkedin, looks like a guru in all graphics and coding related things. I'm pretty sure he will be able, given enough time, to produce a quality MMO engine competing with most AAA engines out there.
  • tauraktaurak rock cave, WVPosts: 174Member

    90's quality graphics?

    Dude, the livestream is 480p for one.

    That alone kills the quality a LOT.

    There is a 90's environment, sure, but dude they can only do so much in 1 month. You can't have a dynamicly awesome environment, and high poly characters, full combat system, and custom engine in 1 month, I don't care if your blizzard.

    Go download the demo client, then you'll see the true quality of the characters.

  • TenkouseiTenkousei BrusselsPosts: 72Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nitth

    Think what you want of me, but im sure 8/10 people that watch this wont find it spectacular.

    You're 100% correct. I've been checking out the CU threads without posting much. First of all because i think kickstarter is a legal scamming machine, secondly, because i remember how WAR: Online got messed up by Jacobs.

    Anyway, looking at the tech demo, i though to myself "if it wasn't for the fact that i knew that it was a tech demo, i would've abonadoned the idea of even following the game". Show this to a non initiate, to somehow who's not aware of the whole tech demo / alpha / beta dealey, and he'll tell you the game blows and he won't touch it with a 10 ft pole.

    All i saw was some characters skating over some green hills with horrible textures. Only the most fanatic would see it as the second coming of Christ. Again, i know it's a tech demo, still i'm not impressed.

  • skyexileskyexile MelbournePosts: 692Member


    Originally posted by Nitth
    Originally posted by Mkilbride
    A student. Andrew Meggs is a Veteran. Torment people are Veterans. Archarge people are Veterans. They all think it's impressive. But I guess you're right - like a doctor, a coder fresh out of school is better than one working in it for 10+ years.


    And there all in bed with each other trying to market the products, inxile with obsidian, inXile with kicking it forward, inxile with this.

    Trying to generate good hype by doing a testimonials.

    Think what you want of me, but im sure 8/10 people that watch this wont find it spectacular.


    Well 90% of people who play games are morons, so yea, you would probably be right there.

    SKYeXile
    TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
    Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

  • LobotomistLobotomist ZagrebPosts: 5,053Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by taurak
    Originally posted by Lobotomist

    @OP

    Sorry to break your excitement, but.

    They have shown 500 same player models.

     

    Problem with MMOs is that every player is different. From hair , eyes , skin color to equipment , weapons , even skill choices.

    This is what makes the  slow down.

    500 of same characters exuals 500*500*500 in real time MMO.

     

    In single player.

    Heck even old Serios Sam was able to show over 10000 models in same scene without any slowdown , on custom engine and super old PC.

    They are not the same models.

    They are all unique, as Andrew has said in every livestream he has done. They look the same, but each character in his demo is rendered in a way where they are all different. Its not a redner one render all demo. If they were all exactly the same he could probably run 2000+ at 400+ fps, because once you render one fully you don't have to render it again. That is why the fps drops sometimes in his demo, it has to render the new models.

     

    Ok.

    Well that makes it much more impressive.

     

    image

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,924Member Uncommon

    I'm sorry but a rant about material not even completed that doesn't really demonstrait much of anything of what an end product will function like does not really 'excite' me. The content itself I'll gamble took more then a month, particularly if your looking at the design time and if you want to add in the old code likely used in the code to spead up its design (which I'd happily gamble there IS some there. Coding you will reuse parts of code in other places which can speed up the processes). 

    Honestly, it shows some enthusiasm but it doesn't show anything of what the end product might achieve. It just doesn't show anything super impressive, unless your content with a lot of the graphical elements cut that would actually make other games have issues. 

     

    Even if it was, in the end you can have a solid concept and great work put out to begin, and then it ends up coming out no where near as good as it first appeared. Sure, support it, feel excited about it, but none of this corelates to what the end product will be like.

  • PanzerbasePanzerbase Chicago, ILPosts: 423Member
    Then I'd suggest taking out a loan or two and putting your money where your mouth is, seriously the KS was ass backwards and generated little interest. I'd suggest taking a look a some of the other KS's that did fund and see what they did right and go back to the drawing board. I hope you get your game but the business plan has to be dynamite. 
  • chaintmchaintm Chicago, ILPosts: 972Member Common

    I am 47 and a coder sense I was 17, does this make my opinion better then a student? No. the fact remains it's OPINIONS!

    Technically speaking, no I am not impressed, it's a simple as that, there are many factors that go into 3d envoriments and having a skelton demo of one is not impressive beyond only one fact, "the guy can code" , ok good step, but if this is suppose to impress I don't see it. Maybe for you because of the obvious fan of the concept and who is leading, but beyond that, ok.. so you like it, we don't see it. Point moot.

     

    "The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"

  • SiugSiug TallinnPosts: 1,236Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nitth

     


    Originally posted by Mkilbride
    A student.

     

     

    Andrew Meggs is a Veteran. Torment people are Veterans. Archarge people are Veterans.

     

    They all think it's impressive. But I guess you're right - like a doctor, a coder fresh out of school is better than one working in it for 10+ years.


     


     

    Think what you want of me, but im sure 8/10 people that watch this wont find it spectacular.

    It looked like this game will be shipped on good old floppy discs. Maybe it takes a couple of discs.

  • tauraktaurak rock cave, WVPosts: 174Member
    Originally posted by chaintm

    I am 47 and a coder sense I was 17, does this make my opinion better then a student? No. the fact remains it's OPINIONS!

    Technically speaking, no I am not impressed, it's a simple as that, there are many factors that go into 3d envoriments and having a skelton demo of one is not impressive beyond only one fact, "the guy can code" , ok good step, but if this is suppose to impress I don't see it. Maybe for you because of the obvious fan of the concept and who is leading, but beyond that, ok.. so you like it, we don't see it. Point moot.

     

    Well if you want to go that route, lets see you create a custom engine that runs 500 unique 12000 polygon characters with spell effects on a networked environment in under a month.

    What I'm saying here is, thats somethign that Blizzard couldnt do in what 8 years?

    100 WoW models, 2000 polygons max, and my alienware aurora r4 won't even make that game run at 100 fps on LOW graphics settings.

     

  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Somewhere, CAPosts: 627Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by taurak
    Originally posted by chaintm

    I am 47 and a coder sense I was 17, does this make my opinion better then a student? No. the fact remains it's OPINIONS!

    Technically speaking, no I am not impressed, it's a simple as that, there are many factors that go into 3d envoriments and having a skelton demo of one is not impressive beyond only one fact, "the guy can code" , ok good step, but if this is suppose to impress I don't see it. Maybe for you because of the obvious fan of the concept and who is leading, but beyond that, ok.. so you like it, we don't see it. Point moot.

     

    Well if you want to go that route, lets see you create a custom engine that runs 500 unique 12000 polygon characters with spell effects on a networked environment in under a month.

    What I'm saying here is, thats somethign that Blizzard couldnt do in what 8 years?

    100 WoW models, 2000 polygons max, and my alienware aurora r4 won't even make that game run at 100 fps on LOW graphics settings.

     

     

    There wasn't even a real enviroment drawn. I didn't see any particle effects either. It was some guys running around on some shitty looking grass. Maybe that's impressive to someone with the technical knowledge to appreciate that type of thing, but to a guy like me that just plays games, it looked like total crap. 

    Maybe I just don't understand this whole Kickstarter thing, but I feel like if someone wants my money, they need to be prepared to show me something that warrants me giving it to them. So far, CU seems like it's been a big improvisation from the get-go. Is this usually how Kickstarters are run? 

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