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Banned for hacking/exploiting when you didn't? Want to know what you can do?

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Comments

  • kjemperkjemper Fargo, NDPosts: 181Member

    I can't tell from your post, maybe I skimmed some instead of reading it as thoroughly as I should have, but was the issue resolved?  Did your account get unbanned due to taking these steps?

    No response currently.  I did eventaully get a receptionist on the phone at Trion Worlds Inc who took down my contact information and claimed she would locate the right department and pass along my messege though.  Whatever their response is, of course I'll update my thread.  I'm expecting an apology since I did nothing to warrant this action as seen in the thread I linked below.

    For those thinking it is impossible for innocent people to be banned and a ban in itself is proof against that player of some "wrong doing," this is not the first time Trion has issued erroneous bans to Defiance players.  Check out this thread; http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?34324-Account-banned/page6 

    I really hope that if enough people take these actions to speak up about being erroneously banned that Trion will look into how they are making the mistake and implement the appropriate changes to prevent them in the future.  Change can be good.

  • BaltoBroBaltoBro Baltimore, MDPosts: 48Member
  • IsturiIsturi Phoenix, AZPosts: 1,509Member
    See people Trions does care. This thread made my day!!image

    image

  • liumlium hell, MSPosts: 138Member
    Originally posted by Isturi
    See people Trions does care. This thread made my day!!image

    Well they will care if there game start to die (if i was reding this before i purchased the game i will not buy it) so if we can prevent abusing banning compagny to make more money is all good by me. One person at time can make differance is if you dont do any thing nothing will happen.

    As for the OP you bann is permanent ? I got banned for 72 hours and after i read the posts on the defiance forum that you provided it seem that the bans are from reports in pvp so what am suposed to die and never kill any one to be able to play this game ?

    this is my world http://www.team-aaa.com/

     

    is not my fault defiance players sucks at aiming

  • BrownAleBrownAle fantasyland, MEPosts: 399Member

    The issue lies in the "unauthorized 3rd party programs"

    Just because the program you use doesn make you run through walls or insta kill someone doesnt mean its allowed

     

    For whatever reason one of the programs you use flagged you as a cheat and you got banned.

     

    Ive dealt a lot with clan members ect in other games with issues like this.  Someone cheats, gets caught, and will pretend to the death that they did nothing wrong and attempt to blame the developers and gain sympathy support from the community.  Ive seen people take the laughable route of "reporting the developers to a consumer watchdog group or gov agency" as well..

    In the end ive come to the conclusion that people who get banned for cheating do cheat.  Not all cheaters get banned.  And when waves of people take to the forums accusing the GM of false flag cheat bannings rest assured, hack site forums are just as up in arms...meaning cheaters are getting banned.

     

    I have NEVER met a single person who got banned for cheating go "yup they got me" 100% of the time its a false flag...they are innocent...i dont buy it.

     

    You cheated, got caught, and got banned.  No sympathy.  I dont buy the innocent gamer getting banned, ive seen with my own eyes the same people talking about hacking and asking for a program that wont get them banned.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,214Member Uncommon
    Good information OP for those who want to appeal.  Trion has wrongfully banned some players in Rift before during some mass bannings.  They're sort of slow, but usually get around to fixing things.  Their support used to be a lot better when Rift was first release, but has become a lot slower and can be difficult to get a real support person on the other end unless you hit it right.
  • IsturiIsturi Phoenix, AZPosts: 1,509Member
    Originally posted by BrownAle

    The issue lies in the "unauthorized 3rd party programs"

    Just because the program you use doesn make you run through walls or insta kill someone doesnt mean its allowed

     

    For whatever reason one of the programs you use flagged you as a cheat and you got banned.

     

    Ive dealt a lot with clan members ect in other games with issues like this.  Someone cheats, gets caught, and will pretend to the death that they did nothing wrong and attempt to blame the developers and gain sympathy support from the community.  Ive seen people take the laughable route of "reporting the developers to a consumer watchdog group or gov agency" as well..

    In the end ive come to the conclusion that people who get banned for cheating do cheat.  Not all cheaters get banned.  And when waves of people take to the forums accusing the GM of false flag cheat bannings rest assured, hack site forums are just as up in arms...meaning cheaters are getting banned.

     

    I have NEVER met a single person who got banned for cheating go "yup they got me" 100% of the time its a false flag...they are innocent...i dont buy it.

     

    You cheated, got caught, and got banned.  No sympathy.  I dont buy the innocent gamer getting banned, ive seen with my own eyes the same people talking about hacking and asking for a program that wont get them banned.

    QFT TYVM OP is just mad since his thunder was stolen, Live by the game rules ppl or dont play at all.

    image

  • CKPlayGameCKPlayGame Lloydminster, ABPosts: 30Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by botrytis

    Here we go again. If you didn't do appeal. if not, your own fault. I hope people on this forum will say the same thing I have.

     

    Their game, their rules. If you are macroing and they dont allow that, they can tell because a macro allows for faster times between key strokes. Some people that are innocent do get caught, it happens. Appeal then.

     

    Don't bring your complaints to a 3rd party forum - take it to Trion.

    QFT, and this too

    Originally posted by BrownAle

    The issue lies in the "unauthorized 3rd party programs"

    Just because the program you use doesn make you run through walls or insta kill someone doesnt mean its allowed

     

    For whatever reason one of the programs you use flagged you as a cheat and you got banned.

     

    Ive dealt a lot with clan members ect in other games with issues like this.  Someone cheats, gets caught, and will pretend to the death that they did nothing wrong and attempt to blame the developers and gain sympathy support from the community.  Ive seen people take the laughable route of "reporting the developers to a consumer watchdog group or gov agency" as well..

    In the end ive come to the conclusion that people who get banned for cheating do cheat.  Not all cheaters get banned.  And when waves of people take to the forums accusing the GM of false flag cheat bannings rest assured, hack site forums are just as up in arms...meaning cheaters are getting banned.

     

    I have NEVER met a single person who got banned for cheating go "yup they got me" 100% of the time its a false flag...they are innocent...i dont buy it.

     

    You cheated, got caught, and got banned.  No sympathy.  I dont buy the innocent gamer getting banned, ive seen with my own eyes the same people talking about hacking and asking for a program that wont get them banned.

  • liumlium hell, MSPosts: 138Member
    Originally posted by BrownAle

    The issue lies in the "unauthorized 3rd party programs"

    Just because the program you use doesn make you run through walls or insta kill someone doesnt mean its allowed

     

    For whatever reason one of the programs you use flagged you as a cheat and you got banned.

     

    Ive dealt a lot with clan members ect in other games with issues like this.  Someone cheats, gets caught, and will pretend to the death that they did nothing wrong and attempt to blame the developers and gain sympathy support from the community.  Ive seen people take the laughable route of "reporting the developers to a consumer watchdog group or gov agency" as well..

    In the end ive come to the conclusion that people who get banned for cheating do cheat.  Not all cheaters get banned.  And when waves of people take to the forums accusing the GM of false flag cheat bannings rest assured, hack site forums are just as up in arms...meaning cheaters are getting banned.

     

    I have NEVER met a single person who got banned for cheating go "yup they got me" 100% of the time its a false flag...they are innocent...i dont buy it.

     

    You cheated, got caught, and got banned.  No sympathy.  I dont buy the innocent gamer getting banned, ive seen with my own eyes the same people talking about hacking and asking for a program that wont get them banned.

    If you did read this : http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?34324-Account-banned/page6

     

    you will realyse TRION admited banning inocent, but ofc you did not read any of it so you just jump to conclusion... i made you tube movie about this BS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ7c44zhvzA

    you realy belive i will waist time on this if i was guilty ? this bather me am acused off wrong and am upset about it.

    Now am only banned 72h so i can play the game but on the 4th day i will get banned again becose i simply got no clue what 3rd part program they talk about they wont tell me. Now i^play more that 10 games ATM and NOT one single compagny ever complained about 3rd party software on my PC is that normal ?

    We can all agree that Defiance is buged as hell so mayby something is wrong in the game ?...

  • MibletMiblet BognerPosts: 333Member

    From your video I noticed 3 programmable periphals.  I find it hard to believe you haven't installed the software for them (you even mention them during your video!), utilised or not some anti-cheat programs pick these up, almost no games enforce bannings on this alone but all game EULAs state they can.  Most games only ban if using macros from such goods if used in such a way to automate the game.

    Third party software is not just hacks, they are saying they found software that can be used to interact with their product that they didn't produce or one of their partners for use with the game.

    You agreed to their EULA which included third party software.  You agree to it with every MMO you will play.  You even complain that they didn't tell you about such impositions.  Here is a tip that is useful for everyone...read any document before agreeing to anything game or not!

     

    As someone else has said complaining here is pointless, complain to Trion.

    As you said from your video, 'if they won't let me use my gamepad I'll quit...'

     

    Legitimate complaints should always be filed with the company, and if they have made a mistake (it happens, the people in their company are human too) they will likely reverse it and possibly offer something in return as compensation.

  • ReizlanzerReizlanzer Ashland City, TNPosts: 452Member Common

    First off, this isn't a situation where someone is just complaining because they got busted. This is a person that took a lot of time and figured out how to do something about it.

    I've been the target of random bannings in games like Shadowbane, World of Warcraft and Ragnarok Online. Every time I managed to explain my case to them and they in every case not only restored my account in exchange for information but awarded me a month of game time for my troubles.

    While it's cool that you're taking a stand, maybe consider using a flyswatter for a fly - and not a defense attorney.

    People think it's fun to pretend your a monster. Me I spend my life pretending I'm not. - Dexter Morgan

  • dorksmetaldorksmetal troy, MIPosts: 77Member

    reporting it to the these places is just silly, and taking it way to far for a 60$ game that wasnt that good to begin with.. good try tho.

     

    Read the small print. 

     

    they win in every scenario.

     

    Deal with it. 

    image

  • HarafnirHarafnir VikingvillePosts: 1,324Member Uncommon

    you get a WARNING that you might be banned at a later date if you continue to use 3rd party software they are not ok with... And you even think you know what 3rd party software it is they do not like that you use.... Still, only a warning... And you immediatly write to California Department of Consumer Affairs  and the Better Business Bureau?!! For a warning? AND harassing the godamn founders and execs?! REALLY?! And you do not even find your actions a little over the top?!

    In this case... I REALLY hope they ban you then put a restraining order on you as well, for being a raving lunatic.

    "This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
    It should be thrown with great force"

  • Binny45Binny45 St John''s, NFPosts: 478Member Uncommon

    I think the OP post was informative and  I have book marked this thread.

    To those crapping on him, stop trolling please.  Your comments do nothing to help.  This person is merely providing a way out to those that may find themselves unjustly banned.

    The OP didn't say it was rampant, nor did they crap on said company, and in fact plans on continuing to play once said ban is lifted.

    What I like most is that the OP took the time to do their (obviously extensive) homework, and instead of coming here freaking out and swearing their head off, presented a logical course of action towards said company that looks like it should result in resolution for the player.

    Given my experiences with companies such as Blizzard, I would have (and in fact did) walk away from a game because of similar accusations.  If I'm being unfairly accused of cheating and said company bans my account and refuses to speak with me, then the last thing I'm going to do is give them more money.  

    It is refreshing to see a consumer come up with a nice middle ground that actually gives the player a leg to stand on.

    Well done!

    image

  • mcrippinsmcrippins Dallas, TXPosts: 1,070Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by kjemper
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by kjemper
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by botrytis

    Here we go again. If you didn't do appeal. if not, your own fault. I hope people on this forum will say the same thing I have.

     

    Their game, their rules. If you are macroing and they dont allow that, they can tell because a macro allows for faster times between key strokes. Some people that are innocent do get caught, it happens. Appeal then.

     

    Don't bring your complaints to a 3rd party forum - take it to Trion.

     QFT.

    This is only meant to be a source of information to others in the same situation.  Most people would not know what their options are, so I provided their options above.  Obviously I am not asking for resolution on this forum. What would that accomplish?

     

    As for PvP, I don't participate.  Okay, to be fair I did do one PvP match for the episode 2 pursuits and I was lucky enough to manage 1 kill.  I've never been banned before either and have been playing MMOs actively since the original version of Ultima Online launched.

     What you are doing is pooping on this game and ruin it's sales.  You are self-appointed and who really likes those types of people?  We have zero way to prove what you are saying is true.  The one thing we do know is what you are doing here.  Some people get off on creating posts like this. 

    In any case, is this the place to resolve your issue with the ban?  No it is not.  Since it is not, it comes of as having an axe to grind or worse.  Contact their support and appeal.

    I will assume that if you just don't drop the issue here now that you have "informed us", that you are really just playing games.  I suspect you are playing games.  You can prove it by dropping out of the thread.

    To quote myself in my original thread, "I'm not here to convince you that I didn't do anything if you don't believe me, but bookmark this thread so you can reference it in the event your account is banned for no reason in the future...."

    I'll still be playing this game after the ban is lifted from my account.  But other people still need this information so if they are wrongfully banned they too can take the actions listed above.  If you are never one of these people, great....  I know in my own clan there have been several.  All of which are still playing.  I'm not discouraging anyone from playing Defiance because it is a great franchise.  Trion Worlds Inc just needs to look into why players are being erroneously banned and correct their policies.  This wont happen unless we ask them to review their policies currently in place.  By doing so I am encouraging people to help make Defiance better because I plan on spending years playing.

    Baffled @ some people's reading comprehension. While I doubt I will be banned - I do appreciate the information you provided. Chances are I will never have to use it, and I've never had any bad experiences with Trion. That doesn't mean it won't happen in the future though. So again, thank you for taking the time to provide information that others might not know. 

  • DignaDigna City, CTPosts: 2,014Member Uncommon

    I've known persons who will admit they run 3rd party software and those who were flagged as such but definitely were not doing so.

    It's a bit like anti-virus software. They use 'heuristics' to identify 'bad' versus good. If it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck...it must be a duck. Sometimes gaming companies detectors flag legit (and non-invasive) software as.... a duck.

     

    It would be nice if they would ID what flips the flag. Then they would help to eradicate false positives themselves as well putting it directly into the face of the folks who ARE doing the 'bad stuff'.

    It would be nice but that would require more boots on the ground. The way the world works these days though (and I understand the logic even if I don't always agree with it) is that a few collateral damage instances are better than missing broad swathes of guilty parties. (Note: this is in reference to quality control on products and not geo-political issues).

     

    ALL of that said, I don't think I have ever had a  game where I was ever so invested that I would write a letter to the BBB and/or local government offices. I realize that it can (infrequently) have an effect over time but in general does very little.

     

    Good post though, OP. Well written and you are to be commended on your not 'raging'.

  • kjemperkjemper Fargo, NDPosts: 181Member
    Response Via Email (Senior GM Wedge) 04/26/2013 08:18 PM

    Greetings XXXXXXXXXX,

    Thank you for your appeal inquiry.

    I have reviewed your account and found that it has been actioned for the Code of Conduct infraction "Use of Unauthorized 3rd Party Programs". I have personally reviewed the incident myself and can inform you that the action taken was accurate and justified.

    Through several pieces of critical information, including server-side logs, your account was found to be using an unauthorized 3rd party program that altered and/or automated the gameplay of your character in the game world beyond normal means. In order to protect the integrity of our detection measures, we cannot give any further details than that. However, do know that we are very confident in the veracity of our measures of detection via our server-side logs, so we are certain this was not a false positive.

    The decision of the suspension, and accompanying account notation mark, will stand on your account. You will be able to play again once the suspension period has expired.

    If you have any additional questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to let us know. Your reference number for this question is XXXXXX-XXXXXX.

    Sincerely,

    Senior GM Wedge
    Trion Worlds Inc.

     

    After receive this frustrating response I took screenshots of everything running in my task manager, screenshots of everything in my control panel programs list, a current dxdiag save, and my entire event log file and uploaded them all to my ticket requesting assistance in identifying what on my computer made them believe I was hacking.  I then received this response;

     

    Response Via Email (Senior GM Giggawatt) 04/29/2013 01:23 AM

    Hello, Ark Hunter!

    Thank you for contacting us regarding Defiance.

    I'm very sorry we have caught your account in a wave of recent damage exploitation violations. I have researched this, and you were indeed incorrectly banned. Since you were not able to play during this time and I would like to make it up to you, I have given your account all of the Self boosts that are 24 hrs, as well as a T4 Lockbox which can be found in your "claim items" section in the Defiance Store in-game. Again, I am very, very sorry we have incorrectly banned your account.

    If you have any additional questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to let us know. Thank you for your continued support of Trion Worlds and for playing Defiance.
    Your reference number for this ticket is XXXXXX-XXXXXX.

    Sincerely,

    Senior GM Giggawatt
    Trion Worlds Inc.

     

    I'll be playing again tonight!  Unfortunately, I put in 60 hours across 4 days last week to have a three day weekend with my wife for her birthday.  She wanted to play Defiance....  You can imagine how much my weekend sucked because of Trion's mistake resulting in my account being locked for the entire three day weekend, but oh well.  At least in the end they admitted their mistake and fixed it.  

    To everyone dead certain that my erroneous ban and subsequent thread here were "proof" I hacked....  People make mistakes.  You did just as well as Trion.  I would still encourage anyone who finds themselves incorrectly banned to follow this advice.  Since this is the second wave of bans in which several people were included regardless of having not cheated or hacked, maybe these protest will encourage Trion Worlds Inc to review their procedures to avoid similar situations in the future.  One can hope, right?  

    Defiance is awesome, so I am glad in the end I get to play again without having a fear I'll be permanently banned for something I didn't do.

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,454Member Uncommon

    First of all,yo ucannot trust the publisher/developer,not even 1%.I say this becuase that email could be a phishing email.You know how and why they get yoreu email becuase your lame publishers and developers sell them for money.They also often allow third party vendors to handle maintainance and accounting,money collection.

    I got ne such email after only 2 hours of a Wow trial,i was like wtf,are you kidding me.I immediately sent Blizzard a real nasty letter about personal identification and security.

    You should NEVER click any email headings or links.Your account may have been had by someone else and they were using cheats.

    There are very minute other ideas and i have witrnessed them myself as false positives.I have received a cheat warning or a claim that i might be hacking based on my video card driver.I just lol because i can't stand cheating,i am the last person that would cheat.However it just proves that anti cheat measures are foten crap ,they pretend they know but instead know notihng.

    Sometimes games embed youir PC with software theat scans for cheats and it is that software that can also cause problems.

    My personal opinion is that Trion is pretty slack on any cheating or anything for that matter,it would have been a phising emai lthat got your information.


    Samoan Diamond

  • RizaunRizaun GuadalajaraPosts: 27Member Uncommon
    This isn't the first time someone gets banned in Defiance by mistake, but everytime someone does, everyone quickly jumps on the "You hacked! Good riddance!" wagon.
  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,544Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rizaun
    This isn't the first time someone gets banned in Defiance by mistake, but everytime someone does, everyone quickly jumps on the "You hacked! Good riddance!" wagon.

    Well something is tripping the anti-hacking alerts, why would Trion choose to ban innocent players. If the player is truly innocent the right approach would be to set up a capture on their system with Trion so they could figure out what is causing the erronious flagging.

    Not only would you be helping the yourself but you might be helping other folks avoid the same issue.

    OPs approach will take more than the 72hour ban anyway, and it is not helping solve the root cause.

    Edit - I see that OP chose to work with Trion and go the issue resolved.

  • RizaunRizaun GuadalajaraPosts: 27Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Rizaun
    This isn't the first time someone gets banned in Defiance by mistake, but everytime someone does, everyone quickly jumps on the "You hacked! Good riddance!" wagon.

    Well something is tripping the anti-hacking alerts, why would Trion choose to ban innocent players. If the player is truly innocent the right approach would be to set up a capture on their system with Trion so they could figure out what is causing the erronious flagging.

    Not only would you be helping the yourself but you might be helping other folks avoid the same issue.

    OPs approach will take more than the 72hour ban anyway, and it is not helping solve the root cause.

    Edit - I see that OP chose to work with Trion and go the issue resolved.

    Most of the cases I've seen of people getting banned are because they were reported by other for whatever reason, some of them get reported because they were driving around an Arkfall or because they were using explosive weapons, some people have said "I report everyone I see driving around an Arkfall because I want them banned", then Trion investigates the player reported and takes action. Since Trion won't reveal what program flagged them as cheaters, some of them may get banned again after they get reported for playing the game.

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