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Camelot Unchained: The Final Countdown for a Kickstarter, and an Industry

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Comments

  • Four0SixFour0Six Missoula, MTPosts: 1,181Member Uncommon

    Meh, I feel sorrow that lives hang in the balance.

    It is just a game. Arguably not even a fully fleshed out game, as it will lack PVE. Even if it was...sheesh.

     

  • BaltoBroBaltoBro Baltimore, MDPosts: 48Member

    This game needs a solid crafting system first. I hope it delivers.

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member
    Originally posted by Onomas
    Originally posted by Mkilbride

    Question on that

     

    Why would you NOT want to see it funded? I can understand...if you don't like the idea, don't wanna play it, but why would you be against it funding?

    Would you want to come to my house if i sat outside and begged for money from you every 5 seconds? made up a fake identity so i could beg you some more? Call you bad names because you dont like what i like? Go somewhere else and disrupt the norm to promote something i like without care for you? Would you want to join my household full of childish and obnoxious people?

    Thats exactly why i didnt fund this game. If people are like that here, i can just imagine how they will be in game. These forums were a mess due to these people.

     

    And its sad really, i wanted this game. i like the features, developers, and game mechanics.

     

    Perhaos in the future these people will act a little more mature and respectable.

    We talking about CU or f2p games?!

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Dahkoht
    For f-sake , its not limiting voices , its keeping it in the one thread that's clearly stated CU kick starter convo here.

    The hyperbole and pathetic begging had gotten ridiculous for this game.

    If it fails to fund it says nothing about RvR isn't popular , it says kick start with a working alpha , or at least a website that doesn't look like something from angelfire or frontpage 2000.

     

     Then go ahead report the poster for them wanting to make a topic on a similar discussion. But I never want to see any more than 1 thread on the positive things on a game (and there are a lot of them aswell).

    They are fine, this is a site for the discussion of MMORPGs and their gameplay, few people complain about the other CU threads. However Kickstarter is about raising money, many people here do not want the front page inundated with threads begging for donations, hence the sites decision to ask people to keep kickstarter discussions and fund raising in one thread.

  • DahkohtDahkoht Pelham, ALPosts: 290Member
    I'm with you Nan , I love RvR.

    Ridiculous straw man arguments like " if this fails then it proves RvR is doomed" are just beyond the pale idiotic.

    It proves folks want to see something ahead of time before putting up money.

    Consumers finally not buying into PR bs be it KS or corporate is a good thing IMO.

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by RefMinor
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Dahkoht
    For f-sake , its not limiting voices , its keeping it in the one thread that's clearly stated CU kick starter convo here.

    The hyperbole and pathetic begging had gotten ridiculous for this game.

    If it fails to fund it says nothing about RvR isn't popular , it says kick start with a working alpha , or at least a website that doesn't look like something from angelfire or frontpage 2000.

     

     Then go ahead report the poster for them wanting to make a topic on a similar discussion. But I never want to see any more than 1 thread on the positive things on a game (and there are a lot of them aswell).

    They are fine, this is a site for the discussion of MMORPGs and their gameplay, few people complain about the other CU threads. However Kickstarter is about raising money, many people here do not want the front page inundated with threads begging for donations, hence the sites decision to ask people to keep kickstarter discussions and fund raising in one thread.

     Oh please, the topic on kickerstarter is no more begging than anything else on this forum; that's a completely bogus reason. I don't complain about the hundreds of threads with constant begging and whining about how "ESO, Darkfall:UW or Neverwinter isn't the way their customers/fanboys percieved it". Why should this be dealt with differently?

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  • RotakRotak Bothell, WAPosts: 29Member

    The only "industry impact" related to CU is that, if all goes well and it ends up with a healthy number of subscriptions and generates money, it will show that niche MMOs can be financially successful. That could lead to more diversity in the MMO marketplace, which is desperately needed.

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by RefMinor
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Dahkoht
    For f-sake , its not limiting voices , its keeping it in the one thread that's clearly stated CU kick starter convo here.

    The hyperbole and pathetic begging had gotten ridiculous for this game.

    If it fails to fund it says nothing about RvR isn't popular , it says kick start with a working alpha , or at least a website that doesn't look like something from angelfire or frontpage 2000.

     

     Then go ahead report the poster for them wanting to make a topic on a similar discussion. But I never want to see any more than 1 thread on the positive things on a game (and there are a lot of them aswell).

    They are fine, this is a site for the discussion of MMORPGs and their gameplay, few people complain about the other CU threads. However Kickstarter is about raising money, many people here do not want the front page inundated with threads begging for donations, hence the sites decision to ask people to keep kickstarter discussions and fund raising in one thread.

     Oh please, the topic on kickerstarter is no more begging than anything else on this forum; that's a completely bogus reason. I don't complain about the hundreds of threads with constant begging and whining about how "ESO, Darkfall:UW or Neverwinter isn't the way their customers/fanboys percieved it". Why should this be dealt with differently?

    If you can't see the difference between people putting their views on various aspects of gameplay and different games vs. people saying give us your money then I can see why you are unhappy with my point of view which is in line with this sites policy on such matters.

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rotak

    The only "industry impact" related to CU is that, if all goes well and it ends up with a healthy number of subscriptions and generates money, it will show that niche MMOs can be financially successful. That could lead to more diversity in the MMO marketplace, which is desperately needed.

    MMO's have been niche before it became mainstream. EQ, WoW, UO, DAoC, Anarchy Online, Vanguard, etc. are all games that were essentially niche. Whether they appeal to the masses pulls them out of that "niche" catagory.

    image

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  • IkedaIkeda Largo, FLPosts: 2,205Member Uncommon
    Uh, kickstarter IS begging.  It's begging to the core.  Don't delude yourself.  All these other games get investors to put money in and fund games.  Even these crap Asian F2ps can secure investors.  kickstarters reason for existing is for people who can't secure actual investors..... Like Camelot Unchained.  You're BEGGING for money to reach 2 million so you can get more investors interested....

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  • IkedaIkeda Largo, FLPosts: 2,205Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Rotak

    The only "industry impact" related to CU is that, if all goes well and it ends up with a healthy number of subscriptions and generates money, it will show that niche MMOs can be financially successful. That could lead to more diversity in the MMO marketplace, which is desperately needed.

    MMO's have been niche before it became mainstream. EQ, WoW, UO, DAoC, Anarchy Online, Vanguard, etc. are all games that were essentially niche. Whether they appeal to the masses pulls them out of that "niche" catagory.

    ... And every game mentioned was able to secure funding without begging the masses to get the game developed.  As is, kickstarter games are starting to fail after achieving successful bids.

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  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ikeda
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Rotak

    The only "industry impact" related to CU is that, if all goes well and it ends up with a healthy number of subscriptions and generates money, it will show that niche MMOs can be financially successful. That could lead to more diversity in the MMO marketplace, which is desperately needed.

    MMO's have been niche before it became mainstream. EQ, WoW, UO, DAoC, Anarchy Online, Vanguard, etc. are all games that were essentially niche. Whether they appeal to the masses pulls them out of that "niche" catagory.

    ... And every game mentioned was able to secure funding without begging the masses to get the game developed.  As is, kickstarter games are starting to fail after achieving successful bids.

    What does your comment have to do with anything about niche or not? I'm sorry but you have to kiss some major ass at the beginning regardless of how the money is funded to get an idea going. In your logic even major funding from coorperations is begging.

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    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • DanwarrDanwarr Grove City, PAPosts: 185Member Common
    Originally posted by Ikeda
    Uh, kickstarter IS begging.  It's begging to the core.  Don't delude yourself.  All these other games get investors to put money in and fund games.  Even these crap Asian F2ps can secure investors.  kickstarters reason for existing is for people who can't secure actual investors..... Like Camelot Unchained.  You're BEGGING for money to reach 2 million so you can get more investors interested....

    Begging - the practice of imploring others to grant a favor, often a gift of money, with little or no expectation of reciprocation.

    Waiting: CU, WildStar, Destiny, Eternal Crusade
    Playing: ESO,DCUO
    Played: LotRO,RIFT,ToR,Warhammer, Runescape

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Danwarr
    Originally posted by Ikeda
    Uh, kickstarter IS begging.  It's begging to the core.  Don't delude yourself.  All these other games get investors to put money in and fund games.  Even these crap Asian F2ps can secure investors.  kickstarters reason for existing is for people who can't secure actual investors..... Like Camelot Unchained.  You're BEGGING for money to reach 2 million so you can get more investors interested....

    Begging - the practice of imploring others to grant a favor, often a gift of money, with little or no expectation of reciprocation.

     I can totally agree to this, kickstarting is to invest in an idea that a company has purposed.  This has nothing to do with begging as the money that's used by the company is for the product they're producing.

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    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by Danwarr

    Begging - the practice of imploring others to grant a favor, often a gift of money, with little or no expectation of reciprocation.

     

    Originally posted by Mkilbride

    But if someone who doesn’t even want to play Camelot Unchained sees the bigger picture and throws a small donation behind it anyway…

    ---------------------------

    I guess the OP fits your criteria pretty accurately.

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ikeda
    Originally posted by Danwarr

    Begging - the practice of imploring others to grant a favor, often a gift of money, with little or no expectation of reciprocation.

    We just making up random definitions to fit a false argument now?

     

    beg  (bimageg)

    v. begged, beg·ging, begs

    v.tr.

    1. To ask for as charity: begged money while sitting in a doorway.

    2. To ask earnestly for or of; entreat: begged me for help.

    3.

    a. To evade; dodge: a speech that begged the real issues.

    b. To take for granted without proof: beg the point in a dispute.

    v.intr.

    1. To solicit alms.

    2. To make a humble or urgent plea.

     
    And yes, I can understand how looking for investors could be construed as begging, but it isn't.  Going to an investor is COMPLETELY different than doing a fund raiser in order to even get an investor.

     This is an investment opportunity, the people have the ability to obtain something they want out of this and all they have to do is fund it. I don't see how you're assuming this is "begging". You can easily construe the words for begging just like you are now.

    in·vest

      [in-vest]  Show IPA

    verb (used with object)

    1.to put (money) to use, by purchase or expenditure, in somethingoffering potential profitable returns as interest, income, orappreciation in value.

    2.to use (money), as in accumulating something: to invest largesums in books.

    3.to use, give, or devote (time, talent, etc.), as for a purpose orto achieve something

    4.to furnish with power, authority, rank, etc.

    5.to furnish or endow with a power, right, etc.

     

     

     

     

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member

    I am not in huge favor of giving a kickstarter a lot of money, if I were giving $10,000 or something, I would want a stake in it, i could see peoples arguments for that.  If you are giving $10-250 or whatever, no so much, you get a game and items, just like any game or collectors edition being sold by other companies.  Never seen a $10,000 collectors edition, even though you usually get to meet the developers and such, but I guess if you can afford the $10,000, it probably means it would be like someone else maybe doing the $250.

     

    Point being, I can see where someone is 'begging' for others to help, but the CU is not begging, due to getting something in return.

     

    I do not get a paperback copy of a homeless guys poems/thoughts, when I put some money in his cup, he is begging, I can see a difference.

     

    I am not a CU backer, but I would like to see it fund, just because a lot of people are passionate about it, and I may even play when it comes out if I like the final product.  I am not sold enough to donate, I have thought about doing so though, at the minimum level to get a copy of the game...Not like it would kill me if I didn't end up liking it.  I would have dropped much more on other mmos/games that I did not like in the end.  I am kind of on a must try before I buy kick now though....Been way too many garbage games coming out.  I wouldn't play them if they payed me a sub for doing so.

     

  • gylnnegylnne South Hutchinson, KSPosts: 320Member
    Originally posted by tinuelle
    Originally posted by Navek
    Originally posted by Tierless

    The problem is if it fails it gives all the corporate people that keep ruining our games more sway to say "see, they dont want innovation".

    Thats a Strawman arguement, worthless and pointless with no basis in fact in the slightest.

    But it would be reasonable to think that RvR/PvP centric MMOs might not be the way to go in the future. It is a less popular genre, and WoW copies are probably more revenue generating.

    Mark is making a rvr niche game and could really careless about generating tons of revenue.

    Noticed lately large companies spending 100 million, 200 milion on a game that caters to all people and in  less than a year converting to f2p? If copying Wow was working this would not be happening.

  • Arathir86Arathir86 CanberraPosts: 442Member Uncommon

    I am a Backer also, and while I am enthusiatic about the project and hope to see it get it funded, these discussions wouldn't be cropping up in the first place if the crowdfunding campaign was/is handled a little better, by both CSE & the community at large.

    Another project I backed, Star Citizen, is a prime example of how a Kickstarter should be handled IMO. Chris Roberts had a full-blown Tech Demo showcasing their engine & physics before he even started, and he was able to get a lot of press coverage by going out and showing his tech demo at various events.

    Word of mouth is still one of the strongest ways of marketing in this day & age, unfortunately not many people realise just how effective it can be...

    So having said that, I believe in CU and CSE to deliver a great game & product, but I think they may have started their campaign a bit too early in their development cycle. If you want to sell an Idea they should have had a working prototype at the very least, not just a short video showcasing their engine work (which I could knock-up in a day or two myself using 3DS Max & Unity).

    "The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln

  • Thebrave246Thebrave246 Carle Place, NYPosts: 174Member
    Lol an industry? No way Mr. Overdramatic over here. No way is this game weighing in on the entire MMORPG industry. Lmao there's much more MMORPGS on the horizon.
  • JimmyYOJimmyYO Columbus, OHPosts: 520Member

    This CU beg-a-thon stuff is getting painful. If it doesn't get funded it's because people don't want to, for a plethora of reasons, which include but are not limited to:

    -Mark Jacobs hasn't made a decent game in a decade

    -He made no attempt to fix Warhammer, why would he stick with CU?

    -You have no say in what the end product will be even though it's made with your money.

    -Many see kickstarters as a scam and I agree

    -Nothing will prevent him from seeking a 3rd party promotion in the months to come even if the kickstart succeeds, putting you right back to sqaure one.

    -Game is running on pure hype, no demos to speak of, no reliable info, nothing.

    -Your money could literally be flushed down the toilet. Hitting the mark ensures the game is attempted, not launched.

    -By the time this game is made you could have interest in something else entirely

    -In the end he took a check and walked away from every project he's ever been involved with, he's not your hero sorry

    And much more

  • DrakynnDrakynn The Pas, MBPosts: 2,030Member

    I have no wish to see CU NOT funded.I'm interested in the concepts it theoritically proposes but not enough to want to back it personally and think it too narrow in focus for myself.

    But that article is over dramatic,extremely biased and just a little bit too whiney for me to take seriously sorry.

  • jesteralwaysjesteralways BangladeshPosts: 1,049Member Uncommon
    4 days to go and nearly 532K required to fill up the 2mil mark. that's a shame, i really liked what mark jacobs said about f2p model, too bad now his project might have to go that way. 

    i want an open world, no phasing, no instancing.i want meaningful owpvp.i want player driven economy.i want meaningful crafting.i want awesome exploration, a sense of thrill.i want ow housing with a meaningful effect on my entire gameplay experience, not just some instanced crap.i want all of these free of cost, i don't wanna pay you a cent, game devs can eat grass and continue developing game for me.
    Seems like that is the current consensus of western mmo players.

  • DanwarrDanwarr Grove City, PAPosts: 185Member Common
    Originally posted by Ikeda
    Originally posted by Danwarr

    Begging - the practice of imploring others to grant a favor, often a gift of money, with little or no expectation of reciprocation.

    We just making up random definitions to fit a false argument now?

     

    beg  (bimageg)

    v. begged, beg·ging, begs

    v.tr.

    1. To ask for as charity: begged money while sitting in a doorway.

    2. To ask earnestly for or of; entreat: begged me for help.

    3.

    a. To evade; dodge: a speech that begged the real issues.

    b. To take for granted without proof: beg the point in a dispute.

    v.intr.

    1. To solicit alms.

    2. To make a humble or urgent plea.

     
    And yes, I can understand how looking for investors could be construed as begging, but it isn't.  Going to an investor is COMPLETELY different than doing a fund raiser in order to even get an investor.

    I did't make up that definition. All I did was pull that from wikipedia. If you want to think the Kickstarter is a begger's fund, that is your prerogative.

    Waiting: CU, WildStar, Destiny, Eternal Crusade
    Playing: ESO,DCUO
    Played: LotRO,RIFT,ToR,Warhammer, Runescape

  • IkedaIkeda Largo, FLPosts: 2,205Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Danwarr

    I did't make up that definition. All I did was pull that from wikipedia. If you want to think the Kickstarter is a begger's fund, that is your prerogative.

    Somebody needs to go an edit that wikipedia entry then.  And Kickstarter IS for beggars.  Every single one of them wants something you can give (i.e. money).  Nothing wrong with it.

    I have 2 problems:

    1)  The fanatics on this website have launched their own little jihad of terror.  They bump posts, offer nothing useful, purposely divert conversations on other forums, troll, and in general do a disservice to the entire community.   There have been MULTIPLE threads where they've attempted to garner further "attention" by doing this little militant forum posts.

    2)  There are TONS of games on here, none of which needed to "beg" for Kickstarter to be made.  I get it.  KS is new and trendy and all these dev's see is money going cha-ching by their eyes like a Warner Bros. cartoon.  It's not the right way to secure funding.  And just as bad, even once they achieve their goals there is no gurantee about return.  Say they make 2mil but somewhere next year they go backrupt, have fallout, some unknown contractual agreement falls through.  Then what?  2 mill went POOF and we have ZERO legal ability to get our money back.  This is MORE depressing when you see all of the whales on the CU kickstarter page.  10K for a game that you may not even see a return on?  What's that?  A 10K donation? 

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