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Why all this single player crap in an MMO?

2

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  • DrakynnDrakynn The Pas, MBPosts: 2,030Member

    I like a little bit of Solo content personally for something to do inbetween groupa ctivities or massive group activities which aren't always available.

    I think a better question is how to keep tacked on,ill fitting Multipalyer out of my single player games.

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by BrownAle
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    If its completely ignorable like in gw2 I don't mind.

    I hate being forced to do sprpg stuff though, like in swtor. Gets me thinking why am I paying a sub for this when I could be playing Witcher 2, skyrim, terraria etc..

    Heres my frame of thought on the subject.

    I disliked GW2, in fact the only reason i played it was i got into beta, and then afterward since people are basically giving away their accounts.

    Defiance is a game that i would compare as a game that is the MOST like GW2 of all the others out there.

    I like Defiance.

     

    How do i like one not the other?

     

    Well.  The story in Defiance is a few thousand times better than GW2's story.  Content is distributed in the same manner, and both games are light on depth, light on complexity.  The big stand out is defiance is a shooter.  The combat is way more fun because of it.  The combat is much less boring, and it pairs well with the GW2 style add content and light depth and complexity.  Also its bot some cliche high fantasy middle-age world.

     

    Both games are "shallow" in depth and complexity.  However, i much rather aim and shoot, blow stuff up, get head shots, and drive around in an ATV pulling tricks as i get air...over the GW2 style boring tab target combat and boring travel.

    Tab target combat is fun when combat is more strategy based, with a lot of skills.

     

    If GW2 was a shooter, and its story wasnt incredibly bad, i would like GW2. 

     

    So what works well for Defiance, imo, made GW2 and total flop.  I know the game has a very defensive crowd (which i expect to appear after this post), and enjoys a high level of traffic on this site...but man...there are a LOT of people willing to sell their copy and account for dirt cheap (or in my case just give me the log in and email account to use whenever i want) 

    Not saying Defiance wont end up in the same situation, but i do know that Trion will keep making the game better and wont waste time making an 8 bit "lol why?" content pack for the game out of desperation.

    GW2 story is very complex - need to read the GW novels in order to understand what went on BEFORE the game started. It makes the game much more understandable -  Ghosts of Ascalon; Edge of Destiny: Sea of Sorrows (coming out this year).

     

    Not being defensive, pointing out flaws in your logic. If you don't understand the back story of a game, it can look simple.

     

    Defiance has the show - GW has the books. The show Defiance has been pretty terrible and the acting/dialogue so stilted I thought I was watching a play put on by a high school. The first GW is OK - no great shakes. The 2nd GW book goes into why Caithe, Eir Stegalkin, Logan Thackery, Rytlock Brimstone, and Snaff and Zojja came together and parted ways - it explains much of the Personal Story. There is plenty in the background and it makes good reading as well as filling in all the 'HUH?' moments in the game.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • akiira69akiira69 San Diego, CAPosts: 590Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by eAzydaman

    Hi,

    First of I understand that story missions are used in this game because of the TV show but why do all MMOs nowdays contain single player cut-scene stories? Why waste time on that when there are ALOT of single player games with far superior stories and gameplay.

    Age of conan , GW2, SWTOR etc etc all have these. Do people actually enjoy these? Why doesn't the developers spend time on more polish, co-op missions/quests, pvp etc.

    I remember back in my DAOC days that it had a really minor main quest but in the end of that you needed ALOT of people to help you complete it and that was actually alot of fun.

    Sorry if this upset some people who actually enjoy these missions but I just don't see the point of them in an MMO.

    /end rant :P

    Because no one likes to be forced to group hunt. If you want forced group hunting the either go back to DAoC or go play a Korean MMO.

    "Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"

  • WW4BWWW4BW KoldingPosts: 493Member
    Originally posted by fallenlords

    I like MMO's but I don't like people.  So being able to solo content as a single player is a must for me.  I only like to group when I feel like grouping.  The odd day in the year when I am feeling social.   Defiance I like because it does have Ad hoc grouping through normal quests.  Which forces me to be a little bit more social than I like to be, and takes me out of my comfort zone.    I don't like the fact that as a single player in a lot of MMO's certain content is unavailable to me.    I try to solo everything, which doesn't normally end well.

     

    Overall it's up to the game, not to force me to participate, but to gently nudge me in that direction.   I think Defiance does that quite well.  Fallen Earth I found was a game that seemed to have a bit of Ad hoc grouping. Most MMO's you only really experience the full potential of the game if you join guilds etc, which is kind of too heavy for some people. 

     What is it that you like about MMOs, since it is not other people?

     If you really group that rarely, then Im puzzled as to why you play these sorry excuses for a singleplayer game.. I mean why not play Assassins creed or Skyrim or the like?

     

  • eAzydamaneAzydaman UmeaPosts: 218Member
    Originally posted by BrownAle

    this another one of those"they dont force people to group with me so the game is a solo-rpg not a mmo" type of threads?

     

    Im sorry, people like options.

     

    If you dont want a single player experience, then play with other people.  I agree its more fun this way.  Stop being lame and pretending its not possible to play with others.  This goes for just about every other mmo where people bitch about how theres no content wall every step of the way that requires you to be in a group to pass.

     

    Oh and for the counter argument that "theres no reward for doing group stuff"...if it means so much for you to make a thread like this then the fun of it is reward enough.  Yes in this game the reward is more rewards for grouping...so yeah...

    That was not my point at all. I just said that I think they should focus more on the MMO aspect. If you want a good single player story there are plenty of other games to play.

    And for the record I LIKE defiance. The shooting is really really fun. Well worth the 37 bucks I spent on the game. Just annoyed at the main mission which I feel doesn't fit in an MMO.

    This is just my opinion though, I understand that they want to cater to all types of players.

  • eAzydamaneAzydaman UmeaPosts: 218Member
    Originally posted by akiira69
    Originally posted by eAzydaman

    Hi,

    First of I understand that story missions are used in this game because of the TV show but why do all MMOs nowdays contain single player cut-scene stories? Why waste time on that when there are ALOT of single player games with far superior stories and gameplay.

    Age of conan , GW2, SWTOR etc etc all have these. Do people actually enjoy these? Why doesn't the developers spend time on more polish, co-op missions/quests, pvp etc.

    I remember back in my DAOC days that it had a really minor main quest but in the end of that you needed ALOT of people to help you complete it and that was actually alot of fun.

    Sorry if this upset some people who actually enjoy these missions but I just don't see the point of them in an MMO.

    /end rant :P

    Because no one likes to be forced to group hunt. If you want forced group hunting the either go back to DAoC or go play a Korean MMO.

    Why play an MMO if you want  a single player experience? That said, I don't want forced grouping, just that all the content is playable in groups.

  • eAzydamaneAzydaman UmeaPosts: 218Member
    Originally posted by Thane
    Originally posted by eAzydaman

    Hi,

    First of I understand that story missions are used in this game because of the TV show but why do all MMOs nowdays contain single player cut-scene stories? Why waste time on that when there are ALOT of single player games with far superior stories and gameplay.

    Age of conan , GW2, SWTOR etc etc all have these. Do people actually enjoy these? Why doesn't the developers spend time on more polish, co-op missions/quests, pvp etc.

    I remember back in my DAOC days that it had a really minor main quest but in the end of that you needed ALOT of people to help you complete it and that was actually alot of fun.

    Sorry if this upset some people who actually enjoy these missions but I just don't see the point of them in an MMO.

    /end rant :P

    a minor main quest?

    that was your epic story line quest giving you your epic armor!

     

    but it was performed in open world :>

    My bad, but I remember it was ALOT of fun to do these quests in groups. Didn't the last quest in the line require a shitload of people to complete? Was around 8-10 years since I played so my memory is a little foggy.

  • someforumguysomeforumguy HomePosts: 3,543Member Uncommon
    Have to agree that I find forced solo just as bad as forced grouping. Content that automatically adapts its difficulty to the amount of players totally trumps this. But on the other hand, is probably also more difficult to develop.
  • fallenlordsfallenlords NottinghamPosts: 680Member
    Originally posted by WW4BW

     What is it that you like about MMOs, since it is not other people?

     If you really group that rarely, then Im puzzled as to why you play these sorry excuses for a singleplayer game.. I mean why not play Assassins creed or Skyrim or the like?

     

    With MMO's I like having a large game world to explore, if it's an open world even better.   Exploration is my bag and things like achievements.  While single player games can offer large open worlds, the worlds are to a vast extent quite static.   With an MMO the world seems more alive and random.

  • MukeMuke BredaPosts: 2,172Member Uncommon

     

    Originally posted by eAzydaman

    Hi,

    First of I understand that story missions are used in this game because of the TV show but why do all MMOs nowdays contain single player cut-scene stories? Why waste time on that when there are ALOT of single player games with far superior stories and gameplay.

    Age of conan , GW2, SWTOR etc etc all have these. Do people actually enjoy these? Why doesn't the developers spend time on more polish, co-op missions/quests, pvp etc.

    I remember back in my DAOC days that it had a really minor main quest but in the end of that you needed ALOT of people to help you complete it and that was actually alot of fun.

    Sorry if this upset some people who actually enjoy these missions but I just don't see the point of them in an MMO.

    /end rant :P

    for me: a MMO is a online game in a virtual world that runs 23/7 with a lot of other players in it. It doesn't say I should group hug or do quests with them.

    It's just that a lot of players are brainwashed by themepark developers that it's a rule in MMOs that you should group up and do group quests.

     

     

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • MyownGodMyownGod SydneyPosts: 205Member
    Originally posted by Lazarus71

    People would do themselves a big favor if they would treat this as a persisten online third person shooter and not an MMO regardless of what the devs or anyone else has said.

    As to all the content being soloable that is completely up to the player as the tools are there to group. I personally like having the option to do one or the other as the mood strikes me.

    I don't know, I really consider Defiance as MMOTPS, since you are playing with 100s other people, and can play together with the story mission if you wish to.

  • MyownGodMyownGod SydneyPosts: 205Member
    Originally posted by eAzydaman
    Originally posted by akiira69
    Originally posted by eAzydaman

    Hi,

    First of I understand that story missions are used in this game because of the TV show but why do all MMOs nowdays contain single player cut-scene stories? Why waste time on that when there are ALOT of single player games with far superior stories and gameplay.

    Age of conan , GW2, SWTOR etc etc all have these. Do people actually enjoy these? Why doesn't the developers spend time on more polish, co-op missions/quests, pvp etc.

    I remember back in my DAOC days that it had a really minor main quest but in the end of that you needed ALOT of people to help you complete it and that was actually alot of fun.

    Sorry if this upset some people who actually enjoy these missions but I just don't see the point of them in an MMO.

    /end rant :P

    Because no one likes to be forced to group hunt. If you want forced group hunting the either go back to DAoC or go play a Korean MMO.

    Why play an MMO if you want  a single player experience? That said, I don't want forced grouping, just that all the content is playable in groups.

    Exactly!! There is plenty of amazing single player games, it's kinda pointless that you are isolating your self from the community by going solo all the time. What makes a great mmo is the community, for example "WoW" still going on right now cause they have a great community, I remember when Ragnarok was big and I just loved the people would just chill around and chat, when Maple story only had the adventurer classes, beautiful community!. 

    An mmo doesn't need to be forced grouping, as long as the grouping system implemented and should have more benefit to the player it self when they are playing in a group, than the people that chooses to play solo.

  • IsawaIsawa Middle 0 Nowhere, ORPosts: 1,051Member
    Originally posted by eAzydaman
    Originally posted by Whitebeards
    Atleast in AOC and SWTOR there is an option to take a friend with you if you don't want to solo story.. In Defiane you are forced to solo story missions.

    Yeah I agree, if you can do them to their full potential with other people I'm fine with it. Guild Wars 2 almost had it but in some mission you couldn't do much as the one helping, just distract mobs etc.

    You should be able to do the quest/mission at the same time with equal involvement from all the players and with difficulty scaling.

    The co-op missions in Defiance are alot of fun. They should have made 20 more of those instead of the main story IMO.

    From my experience in the game, you're both wrong. I had already done the main story mission with the lawkeeper and the sniper boss on the barn. The next day, I grouped up with my brother who hadn't done that main quest yet. He started it and I joined his phase for the mission. Resaw the cutscenes and everything.

    So you're wrong, unless I experienced a bug lol. Or if the option is only there to repeat the main quest via a team member who hand't yet - makes no sense though haha.

    Serious question, did you actually try to do a main mission in a team or just talking. That goes for everyone. What else do people want to randomly complain about next?

    Edited: to address others than the OP solely :)

  • IsawaIsawa Middle 0 Nowhere, ORPosts: 1,051Member
    I'll add that I looked into this futher, and the PC has atleast 1 solo story mission. http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/632956-defiance/65863773 Maybe one of the first ones?
  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by eAzydaman

    Why all this single player crap in an MMO?

    Because despite our best efforts, we still can't get all of  our players to enjoy exactly the same things.

    Their lack of conformist indoctrination is sometimes very disturbing.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • PalaPala MoonPosts: 134Member Uncommon

    I don't play MMOs anymore because they are too solo oriented and soloing is just plain boring. I mean how many millions of NPCs can you kill and find it interesting. If I have to interact and work out strategies with my teammates then I will happily pay whatever is asked, but I just wont do single player MMOs. Unfortunately, thats all of them right now!

    Currently, I play World of Tanks - 15 v 15, not much cooperation or strategies just noobs rushing each other but still better than everything on the single player MMO market.

    In fact I dont even bother looking at the new MMOs being produced as I expect them all to be the same crap just different packaging.

     

  • WololoWololo Somewere, COPosts: 72Member
    Originally posted by fallenlords

    I like MMO's but I don't like people.  So being able to solo content as a single player is a must for me.  I only like to group when I feel like grouping.  The odd day in the year when I am feeling social.   Defiance I like because it does have Ad hoc grouping through normal quests.  Which forces me to be a little bit more social than I like to be, and takes me out of my comfort zone.    I don't like the fact that as a single player in a lot of MMO's certain content is unavailable to me.    I try to solo everything, which doesn't normally end well.

     

    Overall it's up to the game, not to force me to participate, but to gently nudge me in that direction.   I think Defiance does that quite well.  Fallen Earth I found was a game that seemed to have a bit of Ad hoc grouping. Most MMO's you only really experience the full potential of the game if you join guilds etc, which is kind of too heavy for some people. 

    Umm... Please explain your first sentence to me, because everything past that doesnt matter unless you can make sense of it.

     

    If you like MMO's, you like interacting with people. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

    If you do NOT like interacting with people, you do NOT like MMO's. Clear as day.

     

    So why are you an MMO player? Why does your kind ruin these games and this genre because you are an antisocial MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game player?

     

    Go back to SPRPGs please!

  • WololoWololo Somewere, COPosts: 72Member
    Originally posted by Shadanwolf

    99% of the time I play solo.I'm not attracted to games that force a certain playstyle on me.I want ample solo content...or I won't play. It's that simple

    I want to play when i want to play...as long as I want to play....and not be forced to endure  other players  playstyle that is to dissimilar from mine. 

    Ugh. GET OUT!

  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member
    Originally posted by Wololo
    Originally posted by Shadanwolf

    99% of the time I play solo.I'm not attracted to games that force a certain playstyle on me.I want ample solo content...or I won't play. It's that simple

    I want to play when i want to play...as long as I want to play....and not be forced to endure  other players  playstyle that is to dissimilar from mine. 

    Ugh. GET OUT!

    Relax Francis

    You are too emotionally invested. Time to re-evaluate your participation. Maybe even your life

     

    MMOs have a living thriving economy and quite often an auction house which can be a meta game all on it's own for those with the skill to manipulate the market properly. Then there's the fact some people enjoy being around others but not necessarily interact, you know the living breathing world part. You can also trade with people without having to group with them. There's actually quite a few advantages to play MMOs as an anti social git

     

    Not only that but right now he's confined to what's basically a singleplayer game. Maybe you should encourage him to stay there instead? You know in your own best interest

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,680Member Uncommon

    "Why all this single player crap in an MMO?"

     

    Over the past ten or fifteen years, a combination of single-player and multi-player content has proven to make for a good MMO for a lot of people across the spectrum of MMO gamers.  

    Examples: Ultima Online, Free Realms, EVE Online, World of Warcraft, Puzzle Pirates, Runescape, Maple Story, Mabinogi.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • eAzydamaneAzydaman UmeaPosts: 218Member
    Originally posted by Pala

    I don't play MMOs anymore because they are too solo oriented and soloing is just plain boring. I mean how many millions of NPCs can you kill and find it interesting. If I have to interact and work out strategies with my teammates then I will happily pay whatever is asked, but I just wont do single player MMOs. Unfortunately, thats all of them right now!

    Currently, I play World of Tanks - 15 v 15, not much cooperation or strategies just noobs rushing each other but still better than everything on the single player MMO market.

    In fact I dont even bother looking at the new MMOs being produced as I expect them all to be the same crap just different packaging.

     

    2 words. Camelot Unchained. Far fetched I know but it might happen :) Kickstarter is looking pretty bad now though, they need 500k in 5 days :/

  • tazarconantazarconan athensPosts: 1,013Member
    Originally posted by fallenlords

    I like MMO's but I don't like people. 

    There was a time where when at 6 in the morning in the bus stop ppl were greating eachother with good mornings etc.

    Now if a stranger tells u good morning u ll wonder yourself what the heck he wants.

    This has nothing to do with Fallenlords statement ,its a very bad symptom of where the 9 hells our specie is walking into.And its very bad ppl.

  • WhitebeardsWhitebeards TokyoPosts: 778Member
    Originally posted by Eluldor
    Originally posted by eAzydaman
    Originally posted by Whitebeards
    Atleast in AOC and SWTOR there is an option to take a friend with you if you don't want to solo story.. In Defiane you are forced to solo story missions.

    Yeah I agree, if you can do them to their full potential with other people I'm fine with it. Guild Wars 2 almost had it but in some mission you couldn't do much as the one helping, just distract mobs etc.

    You should be able to do the quest/mission at the same time with equal involvement from all the players and with difficulty scaling.

    The co-op missions in Defiance are alot of fun. They should have made 20 more of those instead of the main story IMO.

    From my experience in the game, you're both wrong. I had already done the main story mission with the lawkeeper and the sniper boss on the barn. The next day, I grouped up with my brother who hadn't done that main quest yet. He started it and I joined his phase for the mission. Resaw the cutscenes and everything.

    So you're wrong, unless I experienced a bug lol. Or if the option is only there to repeat the main quest via a team member who hand't yet - makes no sense though haha.

    Serious question, did you actually try to do a main mission in a team or just talking. That goes for everyone. What else do people want to randomly complain about next?

    Edited: to address others than the OP solely :)

    Easy there bro. Did you even bother to understand that we are talking about instanced solo missions here? yes we know that you can do story missions with others in open world but when comparison was made with games like SWTOR for example we were talking about instanced content. And yes you have no option to take your friend with you in there.

    So yes we did play Defiance and we know what we are talking about. 

  • WW4BWWW4BW KoldingPosts: 493Member
    Originally posted by tazarconan
    Originally posted by fallenlords

    I like MMO's but I don't like people. 

    There was a time where when at 6 in the morning in the bus stop ppl were greating eachother with good mornings etc.

    Now if a stranger tells u good morning u ll wonder yourself what the heck he wants.

    This has nothing to do with Fallenlords statement ,its a very bad symptom of where the 9 hells our specie is walking into.And its very bad ppl.

     Too true.. Think it might have something to do with the population size and how far they travel each day.

     Im sure there are still places where almost everyone you run into is a familiar face. and there they will even greet strangers.

     But when we travel far to go to school and work. And leisure activites are institutionalized. We encounter so many people on our way from one activity to another.. People that, simply put, dont matter to us. It is now wasted effort to greet someone.. We'll never see them again, so why bother. Used to be, that if you saw a stranger, they might be there to stay or not.. But it would be an concious effort to not say hello to them.

    I bothered with that, since in MMOs the general userbase is now hundreds of times larger than it used to be. Players are constantly moving from action to action and have to make a concious choice to engage other people in conversation. MMOs were so hyped after WoW that many try the games for a while and then move on, meaning that many arent there to stay.. So why bother trying to engage people in conversation when you probably wont see them again.. They might even be from another server and you only meet them that one time.

    So people become curt and rude. Boss you around if they want you to do something. No relations grow, especially since other players dont really have anything to offer in MMOs these days... You might as well be playing with NPCs.. They are completly interchangable. 

    So it is no small wonder why a large part of MMO players prefer soloing.

  • BrucyBonusBrucyBonus londonPosts: 220Member

    Defiance is essentially a single player game with mmo add-ons. And the mmo elements are frustrating due to damage etc being handled client side with the effect that there is a huge amount of hacking; therefore pvp in particular is unplayable (there is also only one pvp build that works, cloak and shotgun).  

    When you look at the top 3 in any of the rampages/ time trials etc, the leader always has an unacheivable score if played within the rules.  

    But I agree that the trend towards solo play in mmo's is a shame.  I want a populated world to play in, and yes I want to be able to solo content, but I do not want a single player game in mmo clothes.  

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