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IMHO, This mentality is what has killed and will continue killing MMORPG's

WololoWololo Somewere, COPosts: 72Member

I was reading a thread on this site, and stumbled upon this response.

 

Originally posted by fallenlords

I like MMO's but I don't like people.  So being able to solo content as a single player is a must for me.  I only like to group when I feel like grouping.  The odd day in the year when I am feeling social.   Defiance I like because it does have Ad hoc grouping through normal quests.  Which forces me to be a little bit more social than I like to be, and takes me out of my comfort zone.    I don't like the fact that as a single player in a lot of MMO's certain content is unavailable to me.    I try to solo everything, which doesn't normally end well.

 

Overall it's up to the game, not to force me to participate, but to gently nudge me in that direction.   I think Defiance does that quite well.  Fallen Earth I found was a game that seemed to have a bit of Ad hoc grouping. Most MMO's you only really experience the full potential of the game if you join guilds etc, which is kind of too heavy for some people. 

Now this in my opinion, is exactly why MMORPG's are deteriorating and becoming such dumbed down pieces of junk.

You sir, "fallenlords," and anyone else with this mentality for that matter, must immediately and forever LEAVE the MMO Genre in general.

You really dont want an MMO, I promise you. What you want can be found in MANY single player games, and console RPG's. You can play all that solo content till your heart is content, and then use matchmaking in some form to connect on that "odd day in the year when I am feeling social."

WHY THE F*** ARE YOU PLAYING MMO's IF YOU DISLIKE BEING SOCIAL?

WHY are you solo players ruining the only genre I used to love, and now just loiter around till it returns to its greatness....?

 

 

Any thoughts? I'll take both real MMORPG players, and those like this 'fallenlords' SPRPG players comments alike.~

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Comments

  • PalaPala MoonPosts: 134Member Uncommon

    I don't play MMOs anymore because they are too solo oriented and soloing is just plain boring. I mean how many millions of NPCs can you kill and find it interesting. If I have to interact and work out strategies with my teammates then I will happily pay whatever is asked, but I just wont do single player MMOs. Unfortunately, thats all of them right now!

    Currently, I play World of Tanks - 15 v 15, not much cooperation or strategies just noobs rushing each other but still better than everything on the single player MMO market.

    In fact I dont even bother looking at the new MMOs being produced as I expect them all to be the same crap just different packaging.

  • WololoWololo Somewere, COPosts: 72Member

    Just found another quote... 

     

    Originally posted by Shadanwolf

    99% of the time I play solo.I'm not attracted to games that force a certain playstyle on me.I want ample solo content...or I won't play. It's that simple

    I want to play when i want to play...as long as I want to play....and not be forced to endure  other players  playstyle that is to dissimilar from mine. 

    Please, refer to my OP. If this were only true, your kind wouldnt be plaguing the MMO industry and making developers think that the REAL MMO players that are willing to pay subs for a great virtual world with an amazing community. MMO dev's think we are all plebs like you who think subs are terrible and that solo content is a must. People that think that getting to the 'endgame' (LMFAO) in over a week is unacceptable, let alone 2+ years of leveling (ohh the EQ nostalgia.)

     

  • dezerusdezerus aasfsdf, AKPosts: 10Member

    People want to play MMOs the way THEY want to play it. A lot of people simply hate being forced to group up (i mean being virtually unable to progress if you don't find a group) and I am one of them. But this is just because of the way modern MMOs are designed. In a themepark, I don't want to be forced to group for a pointless quest (that most likely involves killing 1 or 2 monsters that 1 player can't handle alone and then it's over) that just blocks my way to endgame. Unless the story is engaging enough, I don't pay attention to quests at all. 

     

    Grouping for endgame is another story though.

     

    TL;DR: Progression quests in MMOs are too dull to justify forced grouping

  • MyriaMyria Lowell, MAPosts: 570Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wololo

    You sir, "fallenlords," and anyone else with this mentality for that matter, must immediately and forever LEAVE the MMO Genre in general.

    Who elected you the ultimate arbitor of what is or isn't good in the genre and who should and shouldn't stay? By what right do you tell anyone they should leave?

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Grow some balls (or wait until they drop) and call them out in the thread rather than try a reach around by quoting them and calling them out in a topic they may never see and get the chance to respond to.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member Common
    Awful early in the morning to be picking a fight, don't you think?

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Myria
    Originally posted by Wololo You sir, "fallenlords," and anyone else with this mentality for that matter, must immediately and forever LEAVE the MMO Genre in general.
    Who elected you the ultimate arbitor of what is or isn't good in the genre and who should and shouldn't stay? By what right do you tell anyone they should leave?

    Your right, There should be some kind of vote for Emperor.

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • Squeak69Squeak69 Colorado Springs, COPosts: 956Member
    OP why for the luv of the gods did you post a reply to the OP of another thread, via starting a new thread. this is silly you should have posted this in his thread not made a new one, heck there is a chance  the op of that one wont even read this.

    F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used toimage
    Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  • LissylLissyl Peru, INPosts: 271Member Common
    Originally posted by Wololo

    I was reading a thread on this site, and stumbled upon this response.

     

    Originally posted by fallenlords

    I like MMO's but I don't like people.  So being able to solo content as a single player is a must for me.  I only like to group when I feel like grouping.  The odd day in the year when I am feeling social.   Defiance I like because it does have Ad hoc grouping through normal quests.  Which forces me to be a little bit more social than I like to be, and takes me out of my comfort zone.    I don't like the fact that as a single player in a lot of MMO's certain content is unavailable to me.    I try to solo everything, which doesn't normally end well.

     

    Overall it's up to the game, not to force me to participate, but to gently nudge me in that direction.   I think Defiance does that quite well.  Fallen Earth I found was a game that seemed to have a bit of Ad hoc grouping. Most MMO's you only really experience the full potential of the game if you join guilds etc, which is kind of too heavy for some people. 

    Now this in my opinion, is exactly why MMORPG's are deteriorating and becoming such dumbed down pieces of junk.

    You sir, "fallenlords," and anyone else with this mentality for that matter, must immediately and forever LEAVE the MMO Genre in general.

    You really dont want an MMO, I promise you. What you want can be found in MANY single player games, and console RPG's. You can play all that solo content till your heart is content, and then use matchmaking in some form to connect on that "odd day in the year when I am feeling social."

    WHY THE F*** ARE YOU PLAYING MMO's IF YOU DISLIKE BEING SOCIAL?

    WHY are you solo players ruining the only genre I used to love, and now just loiter around till it returns to its greatness....?

     

     

    Any thoughts? I'll take both real MMORPG players, and those like this 'fallenlords' SPRPG players comments alike.~

    Well, then I trust you won't mind being the permanent tank and/or healer for any party, yes?  You should just have your character pre-selected for you and given to you so that we can maintain a perfect equilibrium of groups such that no one is left with nothing to do and no one to group with.

     

    No, wait...that would be just as silly as someone thinking they're the first person to go 'oh hey, there are console games!' as if it meant something.  Games can be made that incentivize social/group play as well as solo play and its beyond silly to think that having to do everything 'socially' is a necessary improvement.  The two can coexist.

     

    Unless, of course, you want to wait on me to try to climb every wall I run into, check out every little shiny object in the distance, decorate my house, do my crafting, and hunt down pets as I am wont to do.   I find, for some strange reason, the 'social' players just don't like it when I do that.  Especially when I'm wandering around in a dungeon looking at the lovingly-crafted artwork in places off the beaten 'optimal' path.

  • HikaruShidouHikaruShidou Riverside, CAPosts: 137Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly
    Grow some balls (or wait until they drop) and call them out in the thread rather than try a reach around by quoting them and calling them out in a topic they may never see and get the chance to respond to.

    I wouldn't have put it so harshly, but I agree with this. I just saw the thread of the original post and the OP made a new thread just to complain about them. The whole thread is based on personal attacks, therefore, reported.

    Do not personal attack people guys, have respect, something this planet has less of every day.

  • Sk1ppeRSk1ppeR PlovdivPosts: 511Member
    Originally posted by Myria
    Originally posted by Wololo

    You sir, "fallenlords," and anyone else with this mentality for that matter, must immediately and forever LEAVE the MMO Genre in general.

    Who elected you the ultimate arbitor of what is or isn't good in the genre and who should and shouldn't stay? By what right do you tell anyone they should leave?

    Let the children cry (looks at the OP) 

    If the new MMOs are such pain in the ass for you oh-you-allwise-one, then fucking play the old ones and cast your vote by not buying/playing new MMOs. I suppose if there are more folks like that the devs would take a notice but nooo, you must come in this forum and bother us with your incompetent opinion, then you buy a new MMO for the TODAY's market, where people actually go to work and don't have 10+ hours a day to play a game, and after you buy a new MMO and finish it, you go to their forum to cry about how easy it is and asocial. Well you kind sir, I can tell you that the problem relies solely WITHIN YOU. Yes that is right. I'll give you example, since Gw2 is the most popular lately launched MMO, I guess you rant about that too in your own weird and incompetent way, I never played solo, not even for a second, and I had and still have a blast. Played the PvE content with real life friends (thank god party limit is 5 people otherwise i had to call the whole street playing Gw2) and had an absolute blast, then we all earned dungeon masters, and now we roll like an "A-Team" in WvW always together. And actually THAT IS the point of the new MMOs, playing with your friends, not some random people. Because more and more people play computer games, especially MMOs and the chances to have a real life friend playing a MMO are a lot higher, you no longer feel like in the Diablo 1/2 days where you were alone against the world and joined a game if you found the content too hard. 

    Not to mention that I really don't like inviting people I don't know to my groups, people like you, so that's one to take into consideration

     

    TL;DR - Play the old games you claim you love and quit ranting like a pinched schoolgirl. The genre evolves, either get on the bandwagon, or gtfo, it's your choice! 

     

    Lineage 2 is a good start, not sure you ever played it. It will take you a bit more than an year to max out in levels alone, then 6 or so months to get the best armors/armors and then the korean random kicks in which seems to push you down and make you strive for more. I think you will enjoy that

  • eldariseldaris LondonPosts: 349Member

    Beside being already a sticky post for group play vs solo play,massive multiplayer online has nothing about forced grouping and being a fan of forced grouping is not making you more social than a person who only wants to join groups when he or she feels like it.It seems some people ask for forced grouping because of the feeling of power they can get in those games (as guild leader or a much needed class like healers,tanks) and not from a real desire to be social.
    If you really want to socialize with other people you can do it in all mmos,you just have to be patient and find people with the same mindset ,you just can't expect to find people who want play in same party or socialize with you when you want it and in the ways you want it just because you are a much needed class or a "famous" player.
    It would be interesting to see how many adepts of forced grouping also desire games where being a member of a guild is necessary to enjoy the game.

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    I agree with the OPs point if not his approach.
  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by HikaruShidou
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly
    Grow some balls (or wait until they drop) and call them out in the thread rather than try a reach around by quoting them and calling them out in a topic they may never see and get the chance to respond to.

    I wouldn't have put it so harshly, but I agree with this. I just saw the thread of the original post and the OP made a new thread just to complain about them. The whole thread is based on personal attacks, therefore, reported.

    Do not personal attack people guys, have respect, something this planet has less of every day.

    You're like the yin to my yang or the yang to my ying. Hell...if I know.

    Yeah, you put it a lot more pc than me so +1 to you.

    All for debates but calling someone out in a different thread in a different topic is more weaksauce than McDonald's Picante Sauce.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Nitth

    Your right, There should be some kind of vote for Emperor.

    No no, it is mine by Divine Right. There ain't no damned noblisse oblige, either.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common

    A CCP employee said in a fanfest lecture the other day that 50% of Eve players usually play alone whereas only 25% usually play in a group. Now tell me again, why would they want to let go half of their players?

    I've said this a thousand times probably: Just because you share the game world with a lot of people doesn't mean you must interact with them. Everyone plays the way they want to play. I'm not telling you how to enjoy your games, am I?

    And just because I don't talk to you or group with you doesn't mean I'm anti-social. I have 3 different IM programs running and I am on 3 different voice chats right now!

    Now that you have that out of your system, go outside and take a short stroll.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • muddytrousersmuddytrousers caron city, MIPosts: 2Member

      I have to agree.  Every MMO i have played  we seen  soloing type mmo players come in and the game goes down hill  quickly. I have nothing against solo play.  But i have  games i play  that are for solong at my anti- social moments.

      One may agrue that  it's meaningless to group on lesser content.  Well from  experince, i disagree.  Sure you can solo up to dungeon's and instants. Then group.  Thing  soloers  lack in understanding of group mechnics be it  between class's or the grouped player's. or just simply how the group battles together.  Usually no 2 groups plan or battle exactly the same.  End game even bringing in someone thats grouped everything brings in some sort of lack.  Usually not  understanding the main groups battle styles.

    100% of the time MMO's i have grouped with through the content. The raids go alot better. Theres the challenge but not  the flustrations.  Bring in 1-2 solo type's it quickly becomes flustrating.

  • bingbongbrosbingbongbros Vista, CAPosts: 650Member Uncommon

    I have to agree with the OP.  I've been playing mmorpg's since they first emerged and honestly the whole "I want to play mmo's the way I want when I want" solo mind set argument has been happening since Everquest 1 when people would pick up the game and realize they couldn't solo their way to the level cap or get the best gear solo.

     

    And that is one of the reasons why mmo's went this direction, to cave to the millions of gamers who want in on virtual evolving worlds without having to actually work with others to achieve actual goals.  Which equals huge profits, even if it is a short term gain followed by a massive decline *giving birth to the western free to play movement*.

     

    There is literally nothing you, OP, can do to stop the devolution of the genre.  Console gamer(s) heard from media or word of mouth about mmorpg's, video games that never end, and wanted that because their single player games have a GAME OVER when they finish the content.  And decided to try them out to find to their horror that it required them to socialize and cooperate with other human beings. 

     

    Bank accounts = motivation -> mmo studios not giving a shit about what made the genre great to begin with

    Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
    Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
    Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    A CCP employee said in a fanfest lecture the other day that 50% of Eve players usually play alone whereas only 25% usually play in a group. Now tell me again, why would they want to let go half of their players?

    I've said this a thousand times probably: Just because you share the game world with a lot of people doesn't mean you must interact with them. Everyone plays the way they want to play. I'm not telling you how to enjoy your games, am I?

    And just because I don't talk to you or group with you doesn't mean I'm anti-social. I have 3 different IM programs running and I am on 3 different voice chats right now!

    Now that you have that out of your system, go outside and take a short stroll.

    Simply, in EvE the 50% who solo can't, for want of a better word, "win" using that play style, they can't do the EvE sandbox equivalent of be fully geared up and level capped having played solo. It is however EvE so even playing solo what they do adds in to the game of those playing in groups.

  • MimzelMimzel KristiansandPosts: 375Member

    If 50% of EVE's players play solo, I claim that half of the game's subscribers are pretty confused. Either that, or the wording of the question poll was iffy. Do they play solo by choice or mechanic?

    I have a full time job. I am a department leader and I usually work around 10-12 hours a day. Yet I hate solo games. I simply love wow's LFG tool cause it places me right in the group action within seconds (yes I play a tank or a healer). I dont mind there being solo quests, but not too much of it.

    Look at GW2. A perfect example. You can solo the whole game. And they dont have a LFG tool for dungeons. A perfect example of a game that people praise to high heaven as the best MMORPG since WoW. Actually it is one of the major culprits of washing out our genre altogether.

    The more mainstream MMORPG's get, the more washed out it becomes. It's a viscious cycle, because the Suits want that money of course. So they cater the new gamers and end up throwing the baby out with the bath water. Young puppies will call this "burned out". I say they are exactly right: I cant take MEDIOCRE any more!

  • sketocafesketocafe StoupaPosts: 805Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wololo

    I was reading a thread on this site, and stumbled upon this response.

     

    Originally posted by fallenlords

    I like MMO's but I don't like people.  So being able to solo content as a single player is a must for me.  I only like to group when I feel like grouping.  The odd day in the year when I am feeling social.   Defiance I like because it does have Ad hoc grouping through normal quests.  Which forces me to be a little bit more social than I like to be, and takes me out of my comfort zone.    I don't like the fact that as a single player in a lot of MMO's certain content is unavailable to me.    I try to solo everything, which doesn't normally end well.

     

    Overall it's up to the game, not to force me to participate, but to gently nudge me in that direction.   I think Defiance does that quite well.  Fallen Earth I found was a game that seemed to have a bit of Ad hoc grouping. Most MMO's you only really experience the full potential of the game if you join guilds etc, which is kind of too heavy for some people. 

    Now this in my opinion, is exactly why MMORPG's are deteriorating and becoming such dumbed down pieces of junk.

    You sir, "fallenlords," and anyone else with this mentality for that matter, must immediately and forever LEAVE the MMO Genre in general.

    You really dont want an MMO, I promise you. What you want can be found in MANY single player games, and console RPG's. You can play all that solo content till your heart is content, and then use matchmaking in some form to connect on that "odd day in the year when I am feeling social."

    WHY THE F*** ARE YOU PLAYING MMO's IF YOU DISLIKE BEING SOCIAL?

    WHY are you solo players ruining the only genre I used to love, and now just loiter around till it returns to its greatness....?

     

     

    Any thoughts? I'll take both real MMORPG players, and those like this 'fallenlords' SPRPG players comments alike.~

    Why are you calling someone out in a thread they may never see? If you wanted to have a conversation with fallenlords, you should have replied to his post in the other thread.  

    It's a weird idea to play a multiplayer game and not want to socialize, but give the guy a better chance to respond to your attacks.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,680Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Nitth

    Your right, There should be some kind of vote for Emperor.

    No no, it is mine by Divine Right. There ain't no damned noblisse oblige, either.

    Holy high school history class, Batman! I think that's the first time in 30 years I've seen someone use that term. :) 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,297Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by RefMinor
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    A CCP employee said in a fanfest lecture the other day that 50% of Eve players usually play alone whereas only 25% usually play in a group. Now tell me again, why would they want to let go half of their players?

    I've said this a thousand times probably: Just because you share the game world with a lot of people doesn't mean you must interact with them. Everyone plays the way they want to play. I'm not telling you how to enjoy your games, am I?

    And just because I don't talk to you or group with you doesn't mean I'm anti-social. I have 3 different IM programs running and I am on 3 different voice chats right now!

    Now that you have that out of your system, go outside and take a short stroll.

    Simply, in EvE the 50% who solo can't, for want of a better word, "win" using that play style, they can't do the EvE sandbox equivalent of be fully geared up and level capped having played solo. It is however EvE so even playing solo what they do adds in to the game of those playing in groups.

    solo players often end up just being target practice.. Eve is not a 'solo unfriendly' game, it just doesnt coddle them, but its also a game that encourages socialisation. The type of player that the OP is describing, and that fallenlords appears to be, assuming they meant what they were saying, is to me more of an indication of some kind of behavioural issues, perhaps they suffer from aspergers or something? and what they really need is a bit more understanding and maybe a bit of sympathy for their condition image

  • David_LopanDavid_Lopan Madison, WIPosts: 811Member Uncommon
    OP, I completely agree. Solo = MMO makes no sense what so ever. IMHO you did not need to call them out though.
  • OnomasOnomas Rock Hill, SCPosts: 1,128Member Uncommon

    Atleast make up some good BS when you are going to fib about trying to turn mmo's into console style rpg's.

    Because I have been playing mmo's a very very long time, and never have i been "forced" to group with anyone at any time!

    These excuses and misconceptions are a bit naive and boring to be honest.

    Truth be told : i want to play the way i want to play when i want to play is for consoles and single player rpg's.  MMO's are for massive social interaction. Turning mmo's into nothing more than glorified console games is pathetic. We should turn the entire industry upside down for a select few to have their console games on rpg, yet they cant budge and enjoy the great features a mmo provides without crying.

     

    Another one i find funny: I got ganked, this game sucks.............. lol In the decade plus that i ahve played some major mmo's, mostly sandbox, and a lot of pvp and i have been ganked maybe twice. Many peple actualy do not know the correct terminology of the word gank.

     Another great one: All sandboxes are open world pvp gank fests......................... LOL, yeah thats why a majority of sandboxes dont have pvp or have limited pvp huh? Yeah like you never get "ganked" in a themepark battlezone right? I cant count the times ive joined one of those sorry excuses pvp events only to be out numbered 3 to 1 by the opposite side or heavily stacked against us in skill. Thats ganking someone ;)

    I do agree with the OP, the mentality of mmo gamers today is sickening. I want, free, give me, fast loot, no work involved, i dont want to travel, i dont want do anything but get max level in 3 hours and get all the fat loot. I dont want to grind to get to end game, its boring............. but its ok to hit end game in 3 hours and grind for months for end game armor and weapons............../sigh.

    Another thing that has been a downfall on mmo's............ lack of gamer creativity. Making content > stories yo! Your 2 week long story dries up and you have nothing. All the time and money spent on voice and a weak story = lack of features, game mechanics, and quality of a real epic mmo.

     

    So yes op, you are correct!

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