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[Column] General: No MMO

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,619MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

It seems that, more and more, MMO gamers are looking for a long term commitment but it seems much more difficult to find the right one. In today's Tingle's Touchy Subjects, we take a look at that phenomenon and more. See what we've got to say before heading to the comments.

It seems as though my spare time only has relevance if there is an experience bar, an inventory slot, and hotbar abilities thrown into the mix. Walking from A to B on the actual Earth will garner specific rewards: you might get that long-wished for bar of chocolate, or even a nice bit of cake, but there's no internal chat tab that illuminates with attractive purple text to tell you "QUEST COMPLETED, HERE IS 200EXP".

Read more of Adam Tingle's Tingle's Touchy Subjects: No MMO.

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Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

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Comments

  • hardiconhardicon jackson, MSPosts: 358Member
    nope i found my home again after many many years of the nomad mmo lifestyle.  i went back to asherons call and now I wonder why I ever left for the pie in the sky dream that was world of warcraft.
  • Shadowguy64Shadowguy64 Rohnert Park, CAPosts: 848Member
    WoW fills my need for an MMO. I don't have as much time to play as I once did, and WoW allows me to make meaningful progress in the game without the need to sacrifice every spare moment I have away from work. I already have a job...I don't need a virtual one...
  • MukeMuke BredaPosts: 2,172Member Uncommon

    EVE is my longterm MMO, 10y now and still the #1 unique innovating mmo out there and still growing and no showing of decline yet.....not many games can I say that.

     

     

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • BattlerockBattlerock Youngstown, OHPosts: 1,393Member
    I am pretty much the same as you. I just think the magic is a one and done experience. I have no idea how I ever stuck with a game to reach level cap. I can actually remember questing and grinding out kilks as a holy paladin ewww the painof thinking about that now. But af the time I had no eexpectations, mmo's were new to me and so I didnt know better. All I knew was there was a hige world to explore and there were people and I liked it. It was a new exoerience. Today that magic is gone and I have found that since I am someine with responsibility chasing the carrot leaves me behind the 8 ball and I have deemed that single player rpg's is the only place I can somewhat relive the magic
  • BigHatLoganBigHatLogan Bellingham, WAPosts: 688Member

    It makes it a lot easier to avoid MMORPG addiction since MMORPG games just aren't very good in their current incarnation.  I have played a ton of mmorpgs, but how many did I play longer than a month?  Not very many.  Mr. Tingle is right about the honeymoon period, that can make all sorts of games seem interesting, and I suppose it lasts about a month. 

     

    There is another milestone that comes after the honeymoon period, which I will call the "Why am I doing this crap?" period.  This is when a player realizes that picking hundreds of flowers, or killing tens after tens of mobs for quests, just isn't that fun.  They start to think about the end game and about whether it will be fun or not.  Is it worth it to do all this boring crap?  Some may decide that yes it is.  Others will decide that it is not, and they will quit the game to do something else. 

     

    I love the idea of persistent world games, but I don't have as much time as I did before I entered the real world.  It's hard to spend that time doing boring crap in the name of progression.  I hope to see more persistent world games in the future that get rid of the idea of long term character progression completely.  An example of this game style is DayZ.  As soon as you log into DayZ, the fun part of the game starts.  You don't need to kill 100s of zombies to be able to go fight with other players, you just need to find a gun.  You can advance your character in the short term by scavenging items, but eventually you will get killed and lose everything.  Permadeath kicks in and you restart, but you still don't have to do boring crap, you just start playing the game again and scavenging for short term advancement once again. 

    Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now!
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    I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!

  • RELAXcowboyRELAXcowboy Dallas, TXPosts: 4Member
    Originally posted by BigHatLogan

    It makes it a lot easier to avoid MMORPG addiction since MMORPG games just aren't very good in their current incarnation.  I have played a ton of mmorpgs, but how many did I play longer than a month?  Not very many.  Mr. Tingle is right about the honeymoon period, that can make all sorts of games seem interesting, and I suppose it lasts about a month. 

     

    There is another milestone that comes after the honeymoon period, which I will call the "Why am I doing this crap?" period.  This is when a player realizes that picking hundreds of flowers, or killing tens after tens of mobs for quests, just isn't that fun.  They start to think about the end game and about whether it will be fun or not.  Is it worth it to do all this boring crap?  Some may decide that yes it is.  Others will decide that it is not, and they will quit the game to do something else. 

     

    I love the idea of persistent world games, but I don't have as much time as I did before I entered the real world.  It's hard to spend that time doing boring crap in the name of progression.  I hope to see more persistent world games in the future that get rid of the idea of long term character progression completely.  An example of this game style is DayZ.  As soon as you log into DayZ, the fun part of the game starts.  You don't need to kill 100s of zombies to be able to go fight with other players, you just need to find a gun.  You can advance your character in the short term by scavenging items, but eventually you will get killed and lose everything.  Permadeath kicks in and you restart, but you still don't have to do boring crap, you just start playing the game again and scavenging for short term advancement once again. 

    With todays MMO's, after that fist month you are already max level. The speed leveling in games now-a-days is insane. It kills the MMO before it really gets a chance to do anything. People, within one month, are at end game and there isn't enough end game content. So the players leave. I'm not saying it should take months to get to max, but it does put a lot of pressure on the developers to add more content asap.

    Persistent worlds are fun. DayZ is fun, for a little while. Start game, run and find loots, kill zombies, kill/help people, die (because it WILL happen, often), repeat. Day in day out. In the end that doesn't seem any different then running x amount of kill quests over and over. DayZ, to me, was always that filler game. "I'm bored of this im'a go play DayZ for a little while." It will be liked by All shooter fans, and with the standalone some mmo type fans, but I think mostly the pickup players. The people just looking for something to kill time. With permadeath, there is only the short term goals. That works better for the people with little time to play or someone just looking for something to do.

    Don't get me wrong I am seriously looking forward to DayZ, but a persistent world with permadeath isn't something the MMO world needs. 

  • denisgsvdenisgsv chisinauPosts: 1Member

    im exactly like you ... keep eluding myself the next mmo will be the Chosen One :

    swtor,tera , archeage,teso, NW ,wildstar , kamelott , lineage eternal , but i think i only try to fool myself  :(

    I miss the hard part ... when it took me 2 weeks to get level 10

  • TibbzTibbz Houston, TXPosts: 619Member
    god yes.  I often wonder if I will ever get the excitment like I did when hearing the EQ theme song  during load up.  It seems, to me, that the older games had a player base becuase it took time and effort to level up; it forced you to group up, find that peice of non generic gear that was rarly dropped by an even rarer monster.  you died? consequences there were.  All the new MMos seem to simply cater to the Everybody wins, we dont take score crowd. 

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  • MaissonMaisson east hartford, CTPosts: 28Member

    I have been pondering the same ting for the last 3 years. I don't what the spark is or was  but nothing is making a long enough spark to stick around. Alot of the current MMO's are very repetitive in one form or another whether it is the mobs, terrain, or quest chains. The other issue is the time frame it takes to max level is way to fast. I think that is why I left WoW, I would by an xpac and would finish it in a week or two now. I remember at times I would avarage a bar per hour out of the 10 or so bars required to ding.

    Something is not catching my full attention anymore and it does feel like a small empty void exists and nothing has filled it yet. I think the reason is because I played MMO's for 10+ years and it was the same time frame for years so it's almost like I need to do it to complete my day or it feels like I forgot to do something that i am supposed to do.

    yes it is a addiction per say. Would I put my family after MMO's absolutly not, but when they are all sleeping or do something out of the house then I would play.

  • nethervoidnethervoid xanex, CAPosts: 528Member
    Nope. The reason this is not happening with other genres is their games either stay the same or only grow in features. MMORPGs have had features removed as time went on to the point they're hollow images of what they used to be.

    nethervoid - Est. '97
    [UO|EQ|SB|SWG|PS|HZ|EVE|NWN|WoW|VG|DF|SWTOR]
    13k subs YouTube Gaming channel

  • valoizvaloiz CaracasPosts: 14Member

    I completly agree.. miss the time s from L2 (C4)  a place where u foind friends and have fun, u kill and get jill, actually need to play with other people, etc etc.

     i had play GW2 , TSW, wakfu, Atlantica online, spiran knigths, Tera, Lineage (hate new version) , WoW and still cant find my rigth place to be...

  • bbbb42bbbb42 none, FLPosts: 297Member Uncommon
    :/ i dont have time 4 mmos anymore

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  • VancePantsVancePants Los Angeles, CAPosts: 43Member
    Originally posted by RELAXcowboy
    Don't get me wrong I am seriously looking forward to DayZ, but a persistent world with permadeath isn't something the MMO world needs. 

    Not to get too deep and philosophical, but what does the MMO world need? The jist I get from the Tingly-dubbed "nomads" on this site is that there's been an over-saturation of the gmae market, every MMO is just like the last, and only a select few with that indescribable "something" are truly worthy of our time.

     

    "what MMOs need..." though is 75% of what you'll find on the mmorpg.com forums. Nobody can seem to put it into the right words and my question is, is it anything?

     

    Speaking abstractly, is there always necessarily "something missing" from these new games, or are we as gamers so jaded and nostalgic that we can't accept and connect with these new titles, even if deep down we want to?

    :D

  • LeetheLeethe Posts: 876Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nethervoid
    Nope. The reason this is not happening with other genres is their games either stay the same or only grow in features. MMORPGs have had features removed as time went on to the point they're hollow images of what they used to be.

    This. We've gome from King's Quest on a pc junior to Bioshock Infinite while MMOs have become more and more "streamlined". Don't you love that word "streamlined"?

     

    stream·lined (strmlnd)
    adj.
    1.
    a. Designed or arranged to offer the least resistance to fluid flow.
    b. Reduced to essentials; lacking anything extra.
    c. Effectively organized or simplified: a streamlined method of production.

    Definition B brings tears to my eyes.

    There is NO miracle patch.

    95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.

    Hope is not a stategy.
    ______________________________
    "This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."

  • znaiikaznaiika denver, PAPosts: 203Member

    The main reason is, back then there were few MMOs now you have tons to choose from.

    Nothing else is different with MMO that has changed, not dificulty nor solo nor else ruined MMO era, it's just so many of them who try to please one playstyle and nerf the other playstyle, that is untill someone will make a game that will be set for all play styles, like, pvp would have their own server, pve their own server, rp their own, and solo their own, each server would set to required dificulties.

    Then everyone will have their own home to settle in.

  • AlomarAlomar Middle Earth, NJPosts: 448Member Uncommon
    i started playing mmo's at 9 years of age and I'm now 21. I can agree that since becoming an adult and having many years of experience in mmo's, I now find myself bored very easily and quickly. Possibly because it's all just the same thing with a new package or I've just drank all of the coolaid and theres none left for me. The large releases later this year (ESO & ArchAge) and my reaction to them will determine if I put down my mmo gaming for good or atleast 5+ years.

    Dozens of MMO's, RTS's, FPS's, etc.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member

    "So to wrap this up, do you feel like me? Do you pine for an MMORPG experience you just can't put your finger on? Are you a nomad, lingering in a netherrealm between games, never committing to any?"

    Yes. Unfortunately, MMORPGs have morphed so that players who never liked an online world (a huge untapped audience) would spend their money. All these new players want to do is fight, fight, and fight yet again. Anything else is "a waste of my time."

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • giggalgiggal ChesterfieldPosts: 116Member Uncommon

    I think we can lay the blame at the inherent antisocial features now prevalant in most mmos.

    The auto group / auto dungeon / auto raid. You mash the button join those people for 30 minutes then depart never to group again.

    IN the "olden days" you would form your group and while you had down time normally a few minutes between each battle you would chat and talk and get to knwo the different people in your group. forge friendships and then add them to a friend list and maybe group with them again.

     

    Guilds were made up of friends who did things together because you knew how to play you would arrange your social life around your online family and you would feel part of it.

     

    Now most of my friends have moved to other games non that really appeal to me i find that all new mmos have this lack of comunity. Everyone wants end game so they removed the downtime everyone wanted insta dungeons so they got rid of the lfg function. everyone wanted to raid so they put in an automatic raid feature.

     

    Its basically removed all the social elements of the game, your playing an online game but your not really socialising with the other players. and so you dont get attached to the games you play because the people you meet may as well be strangers in the street you bump into apologise and move on, or the people on the bus you may recognise them now and again but you dont know who they are.

    I tried going back to dark age of camelot all that i found was the game i loved to play with friends was no fun without them.

  • marsh9799marsh9799 jackson, MSPosts: 100Member
    Originally posted by znaiika

    The main reason is, back then there were few MMOs now you have tons to choose from.

    Nothing else is different with MMO that has changed, not dificulty nor solo nor else ruined MMO era, it's just so many of them who try to please one playstyle and nerf the other playstyle, that is untill someone will make a game that will be set for all play styles, like, pvp would have their own server, pve their own server, rp their own, and solo their own, each server would set to required dificulties.

    Then everyone will have their own home to settle in.

    This is just flat out false.  The modern MMOs are significantly easier.  They are much more solo oriented.  They are much less guild oriented.   

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,437Member Uncommon

    Honestly, I think a lot of it was just the newness. People complain about quests now, but that was new and exciting when EQ2 and WoW came out with quests! Now we've all seen that before. EQ was new and exciting when they came out with big raid bosses and a 3D environment. But now we've all seen that before.

    People can't go back, because the magic is old now. The magic is that fresh new experience. I still enjoy MMOs myself though. There are waaay too many good ones though and no subs does make it too easy to bounce around. I'm playing like 4 MMOs right now lol.

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  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member

    "There is no such thing as experience in real life, or at least in the sense of bubbles and dings."

    I'm not sure about this - I've been in workplaces where everyone was fretting about where they were in the salary band and when they would reach the next level, complete with honorary titles, loot bags and reward perks.  Office life is not all that different from a themepark game - it just happens much, much slower.

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,437Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by marsh9799
    Originally posted by znaiika

    The main reason is, back then there were few MMOs now you have tons to choose from.

    Nothing else is different with MMO that has changed, not dificulty nor solo nor else ruined MMO era, it's just so many of them who try to please one playstyle and nerf the other playstyle, that is untill someone will make a game that will be set for all play styles, like, pvp would have their own server, pve their own server, rp their own, and solo their own, each server would set to required dificulties.

    Then everyone will have their own home to settle in.

    This is just flat out false.  The modern MMOs are significantly easier.  They are much more solo oriented.  They are much less guild oriented.   

     

    You're right that modern MMOs do have more solo content. But he's absolutely right that people were still bitching and moaning back then about "they ruined this, this game sucks my class is broken PvP is imbalanced waaahhhh". You just didn't have a lot of choices.

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  • HjamnrHjamnr Madison, WIPosts: 163Member

    For years I have been in a similar state, Adam.   Within the last 6 months, my excitement is rekindled, by the possibilites of first "Star Citizen", and now "Camelot Unchained".  

    Yes, they are both at least a year out, from now, but they have provided me with hope, in this "everybody wins", reversion to the mean, race towards idiocy, which has plagued the genre ever since WoW made it big.

     
  • MyownGodMyownGod SydneyPosts: 205Member
    Nothing so far fills me as an MMO :( I've been cruising and let most mmo past my shoulder from times to times but sometimes I come back to that game just for shits and gigs. But! I'm looking forward for Arche age. Just needed an mmo with more sense of freedom (Sandboxy, with a touch of rp).
  • feena750feena750 Federal Way, WAPosts: 331Member Uncommon
    Ultima was my MMO and nothing has brought that magic back.  I play new games for a few months, but that is it.  I have friends in GW2 so I still play it occasionally, but only because them and I am not drawn into the game itself so much anymore.
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