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Originally posted by Nadia Originally posted by Eir_S Originally posted by Axehilt I still think it's hilarious how often "Kill 10 rats" gets mentioned, and how I can't really think of a single MMORPG that actually has a quest where you kill 10 rats. WAR maybe?
LOTRO apparently has a quest to kill 10 rats in Isengard Keep.
Dark Ages (an older MMO) had a quest to kill 10 rats, I remember that one because it was my first MMO.
There's a quest in Rift in the Necropolis to kill 10 rats also.
And there's this one in Allods. Exactly 10.
And those are the ones I found in about 3 minutes of research. There are a few not even worth mentioning like Endless Online.
eq2 added a quest 3 years ago called... Kill 10 Rats
the quest name was in humor because you are killing 10 ratonga (rat bipedals)
I vaguely remember another humorous "kill ten rats" quest where there was this one mob who was named "Ten Rats" or something similar, but for the life of me, I can't remember what game it was.
Here's what I've heard reported about EQ Next, first in the announcement and later when they said that storybricks is joining the team.
1. Using Planetside 2's world system. This is very good to me. I don't much like cartoon environments and I do like long draw distances and a world without barriers.
The downside is that they do have crashes occasionally and I'm not sure how underground dungeons would be.
2. Free to play model, or at least they talked about F2P in the announcement. This is good and bad. The good is that it gets people in the game. The bad is that the PS2 model they sound like they might base it on is a crock. 1 gun costs $7, camo is expensive. They have a 'premium' service, but for that you get $5 worth of certs and go to the head of the queue for $15/mo., plus a bonus in accruing certs that's not great.
3. Storybricks is going to try and make AI that are smart enough to make the game immersive. The fact that SoE went out and hired them is a great sign to me. I think EQ had better AI than most current games that use cut scenes. I'd really like to see towns filled with people who you could talk to and get di.rections from toward quests and the like who acted like real people.
I think SoE has the tools to make EQ next great, but even if the game is done perfectly it's not going to be the perfect game for most people. Too many people don't want the same thing.
Originally posted by Neanderthal You're being too literal about that. "Kill ten rats" is just a generic way of refering to the innumerable, trivial quests dumped on people by games in which progress is primarily quest driven. In a similar way, some folks might remember when spawn camping was sometimes refered to as "whack a mole" gameplay. Because you were sitting there waiting for the same mobs to respawn over and over so you could kill them over and over. But when people called it "whack a mole" they didn't literally mean that we were killing moles.
Whack-a-mole is like "fedex quest". It's clearly a saying.
If I used "deliver this hairbrush quests" to refer to all delivery quests, it's not clearly a saying and actually makes less sense. Whereas "delivery quest" is simple and generic, "fedex quest" is clearly a saying, and even "deliver this package quests" are at least the most common type of delivery quest and therefore make sense.
But delivering hairbrushes?!? That doesn't even make sense. Nor do rats.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Originally posted by Axehilt I still think it's hilarious how often "Kill 10 rats" gets mentioned, and how I can't really think of a single MMORPG that actually has a quest where you kill 10 rats. WAR maybe?
It's from Everquest.
The first quest you can get in Qeynos, Freeport, Rivervale and Neriak is to get rat whiskers by killing the rats in the city.
It's the first quest you can get in the game really.
"Exterminator Larkey wants four rat whiskers from the many instances of A Rodent running around. You get faction hits and a small cash reward."
Originally posted by Axehilt Originally posted by Neanderthal You're being too literal about that. "Kill ten rats" is just a generic way of refering to the innumerable, trivial quests dumped on people by games in which progress is primarily quest driven. In a similar way, some folks might remember when spawn camping was sometimes refered to as "whack a mole" gameplay. Because you were sitting there waiting for the same mobs to respawn over and over so you could kill them over and over. But when people called it "whack a mole" they didn't literally mean that we were killing moles.
Yeah, ok, but that's the way people use it.
We could try to analyse why "rats" are used in the saying but that would likely turn into a huge nerdtastic pissing contest and I don't think I want to bother with it. Suffice it to say that it's a way of belittling that type of gameplay.
It's used as a representative example of a certain type of gameplay. It's used as a way to refer to that type of gameplay. If you don't like it don't get mad at me. That's just the way it is.
I mean, clearly, when developers (and most other people) talk about the typical "kill ten rats" type of quests/gameplay they aren't JUST talking about quests which specifically involve killing ten rats.
Did anyone else reading this thread not understand that?
Originally posted by Dauzqul Storybricks sounds good on paper, but what game-related news doesnt? I remember SWTOR talking about their deep story component, e.g., "The way you intereact with NPCs is important and permanent. Your choices reflect your destiny" - something like that crap. REALITY: Deep choices? Pfft. The quest giver talks... you have the following options: #1. Kill the NPC (Earn Sith Point) #2. Let the NPC live (Earn Jedi Point) #3. (no points) As I said earlier, everything sounds good on paper. But when usually put to practice, it's just stupid.
Well we'll see what happens. I don't think how things have happened in the past dictate or ensure what will happen in the future - so it may turn out a lot better than you expect.
Originally posted by winter OP this is SOE we are talking about. You are setting yourself up for some massive disappointment if you even believe half the hype they put out. Hell just to drum up some talk on the game Smed said it had permadeath and latter they developers said it didn't. Lying is what SOE does.
I guess I'm not as jaded or resentful as you - I don't thint there is an issue in being excited for the game. And while I've had my issues with SOE in the past also, I don't think everything they are saying regarding this game is crap. Bringing Storybricks onto the team is fact, and they didn't hire them then tell them to make more kill 10 rat quests.
Originally posted by Axehilt I still think it's hilarious how often "Kill 10 rats" gets mentioned, and how I can't really think of a single MMORPG that actually has a quest where you kill 10 rats. WAR maybe? It's like this scapegoat stereotype that everyone insults, but never actually exists. Bizarre and hilarious. Definitely hope these guys figure out a fun innovation and it isn't just empty hot air (I can easily see it going either way: either the mechanism is a blast to play around with, or it's mostly irrelevant (heaping on upkeep to the act of quest-getting, without adding meaningful gameplay.) Maybe even both.)
I always assumed that originated from EQ. In "old" Freeport, there was a quest to kill 10 rats. They were some big rats, too.
Dang, I miss old freeport. They went way overboard when they re-did it. Is old Qeynos, Felwithe still in the game? If anyone knows.. Thanks.
So many MMOs talk a huge talk during development, and then ship with a small fraction of the features they talked about (usually the most common, boring features like 'combat' and 'quests').
I have little faith until I see it in beta.
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Originally posted by ShakyMo As far as f2p goes. Planetside 2s model is excellent. I don't thinly there is a better / fairer f2p model out there. I thinly EQN will be sub based though, at least for the first couple of years.
ofc they could change their mind, but they did indirectly say that F2P is the future for all SOE MMOs, so expecting a F2P model with heavy encouraged sub model alternative.
certainly my hype for this game havent become less with the announcement of SOE´s outsourcing some tasks to storybricks...but we will see in August am excited to see the game´s best sides finally
Still wreaks of theory to me. They've created a tool, but how does the implementation actually enhance gameplay?
Even with more advanced NPCs, what do you really have? At best, The Sims? No matter how flexible your NPCs are, they're less flexible than a player character. Their true flexibility only stems from the things which you program them to do that REAL players CAN'T do. If you can't allow or count on real players to initiate a quest, give out a reward, or share world-building information, you give that role to an NPC. But that still requires as much design and programming as MMOs already do. Storybricks is not a magic bullet for this problem.
MMOs can already create NPCs with complex behaviors. They just haven't shown an ability to use them to enhance the gameplay. Freedom and choices are only really fun when they lead you to doing exciting and interesting things. Otherwise they're "same-old".
I can see how the tool can be made to make NPCs that are more flexible. But flexibility only means potential--potential which already exists and is not utilized. Potential which requires vast resources to actualize.
It's an awful lot of "wouldn't it be nice?" And yes, it would be nice if developers used Storybricks to deliver on those things. Much as it would be nice if I could build my own house, giving me a new hammer isn't the solution to the problem.
Originally posted by Acidon Is old Qeynos, Felwithe still in the game? If anyone knows.. Thanks.
They're both still in the game, they're also unchanged unlike Freeport.
EQ1 did in its early days. Just outside the city was snakes and rats. Welcome to your first bit of combat. If anyone was from that time like me, was 3 turns from the brown pile of poop. =-)
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Originally posted by cybertrucker Don't fall for the hype. Am I excited about a new Everquest? Hell yes! However with all the single player multi user games we are getting force fed to us that constantly over promise and under deliver. I will sit back and wait untill I have hands on myself.
QFT, but the problem is it's not the developers fault that players don't talk to each other. I mean there are certain things that they can do to encourage people to talk to other, but short of forcing group play (like FFXI) you can't force people to talk to each other...even in FFXI there were alot of people that only talked with LFG lvl-lvl invite me please messages lol. The problem is the players. I always have so many friends, because when I enter a lfg dungeon or meet people I always say hello. Alot of people just ignore you, but I find it about a 50% chance that at least one person in a group will talk to you throughout the dungeon. Even a smaller percentage will actually talk to you afterwards though.
Originally posted by asmkm22 My concern is that SOE has a pretty bad reputation for delivering games that play well. Most of them look great on paper and in screenshots (or those common videos of camera's floating across the landscape yet never actually showing character movements), but they all lack in actual gameplay, such as clunky combat and crappy character animations. With Smedly fully embracing cash shop F2P designs, it's even less likely that whatever open-world immersion they do manage to create won't just break at the first "click here to buy this questline" message that pops up.
I like how you put that all on SOE, you know, because I think I have seen it in PLENTY of games with shops lately. If you are going to call it, call it for everyone.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
I think it's intriguing if this is indeed the path SOE is going with EQNext.
But not so much the idea of advanced AI in a sandbox world. It's the risk they'll take if they really try this, because it will have to survive contact with the MMO playerbase.
There are legions of players who will make it their mission in EQNext life to break it, and if this is the "game" then breaking it leaves little left as a backup. And I haven't seen a developer yet who are ahead of the curve when it comes to anticipating what the players can do, so my confidence in this starts at Very Low. Some company has to finally get it, though, right? Right?
Avatars are people too
To all rational communicating individuals, "Kill 10 rats" type quests is a fully understandable term. It is an incredibly common form of quest.
Unfortunately, there aren't that many different type of quests you can do that don't devolve into killing 10 rats.
Even more unfortunate, is the fact no one has even tried any of the few other types of quests. MMO's seem to be stuck with "Kill 10 rats" and "fedex." quests.
It is sad, almost pathetic, that some people spend their professional lives implementing these quests in a full time fashion. They are called "writers", I believe. Not that the person having the job is pathetic or sad, but that their work is sad. It's about as creative as one can be when giving a tool that can do nothing more than an artist with a monotone grey crayon without any paper to write one. The monotone grey crayon can only be broken so many ways before it looks like the same piece of art.
To continue the topic hijak, I believe the kill 10 rats is actually a combined condemnation of two games.
When World of Warcraft was coming close to release, one of the development guys said something to the effect (and he was referring to Everquest): "No one wants to kill rats, that's not heroic." So, in WoW you got to kill Trogs or boars or crabs (heroic, right?) right from the beginning. There were no rats snakes and bats.
Then later you had people getting tired of the WoW "Kill 10" or "kill X's until you find 7 Y's on them". People combined the two into an combined criticism of both games. Kill 10 Rats would be World of Warcraft's implentation of killing the Everquest newbie monsters.
Pretty excited about EQNext, and I remember being excited about Storybricks when I read that article, or another similar one. It's just cool to hear that Sony is hiring some outside people, rather than relying soley on the EQ - DC Online teams. Nice to see one game developer admit that they don't have all the greatest ideas for once.
Yay for the OP,we get to read in between the lines and outside the box,my favorite part of speculation .
I wil lnow read the article,since you made it sound like it is lengthy,i will comment on it eventually.
Before i do read it,the only thing i have always thought about is simply to give the plaeyrs the tools to create the game world.I guess sort of like a super advanced version of Minecraft.
I will comment now on the numbered topics as i read between the lines and speculate.
1 will it be something new?I am somewhat skeptical,talk is cheap but at the same time SOE has been the forefront leader of this industry for a very long time.
/2 That would be an ECO system,something i dearly want ,but i highly doubt we will ever see it becuase of bandwidth needed to run it,both PC bandwidth and net bandwidth.The AI would eat up everyone's machines.
/3 Thios part is just fabrication and can NEVER happen.I will use a simple example.Say player A wants a free for all pvp system and player B does not,there is no possible way to tell us you are giving both plaeyrs what they want.It is in essence the most used lie among PR guys from every game.
/4 I know nothing at all about Storybricks,but i will read the article and read up on this team.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
EQN was already specifically announced as f2p back during PAX.