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Why all this single player crap in an MMO?

eAzydamaneAzydaman UmeaPosts: 218Member

Hi,

First of I understand that story missions are used in this game because of the TV show but why do all MMOs nowdays contain single player cut-scene stories? Why waste time on that when there are ALOT of single player games with far superior stories and gameplay.

Age of conan , GW2, SWTOR etc etc all have these. Do people actually enjoy these? Why doesn't the developers spend time on more polish, co-op missions/quests, pvp etc.

I remember back in my DAOC days that it had a really minor main quest but in the end of that you needed ALOT of people to help you complete it and that was actually alot of fun.

Sorry if this upset some people who actually enjoy these missions but I just don't see the point of them in an MMO.

/end rant :P

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Comments

  • fallenlordsfallenlords NottinghamPosts: 680Member

    I like MMO's but I don't like people.  So being able to solo content as a single player is a must for me.  I only like to group when I feel like grouping.  The odd day in the year when I am feeling social.   Defiance I like because it does have Ad hoc grouping through normal quests.  Which forces me to be a little bit more social than I like to be, and takes me out of my comfort zone.    I don't like the fact that as a single player in a lot of MMO's certain content is unavailable to me.    I try to solo everything, which doesn't normally end well.

     

    Overall it's up to the game, not to force me to participate, but to gently nudge me in that direction.   I think Defiance does that quite well.  Fallen Earth I found was a game that seemed to have a bit of Ad hoc grouping. Most MMO's you only really experience the full potential of the game if you join guilds etc, which is kind of too heavy for some people. 

  • TuchakaTuchaka san diego, CAPosts: 468Member
    well since its a MMO in name only a better question is why all this quasi mmo stuff in a bad FPS shooter ?
  • WhitebeardsWhitebeards TokyoPosts: 778Member
    Atleast in AOC and SWTOR there is an option to take a friend with you if you don't want to solo story.. In Defiane you are forced to solo story missions.
  • eAzydamaneAzydaman UmeaPosts: 218Member
    Originally posted by Whitebeards
    Atleast in AOC and SWTOR there is an option to take a friend with you if you don't want to solo story.. In Defiane you are forced to solo story missions.

    Yeah I agree, if you can do them to their full potential with other people I'm fine with it. Guild Wars 2 almost had it but in some mission you couldn't do much as the one helping, just distract mobs etc.

    You should be able to do the quest/mission at the same time with equal involvement from all the players and with difficulty scaling.

    The co-op missions in Defiance are alot of fun. They should have made 20 more of those instead of the main story IMO.

  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member

    This is not your run'of'the'mill MMO. It's a shooter and like all shooters you solo. Some shooters let you form a group and this is no different. Don't compare Defiance with GW2 etc because they are nothing alike and it would be more than a bit retarded to pull them as examples

    There have been hundreds of replies to dozens of threads about why MMORPGS and MMOs are more solo centric these days. Go find one of those and join the discussion

     

    This may sound like I'm defending Defiance I'm not. I find it a retarded shooter in many ways least of all the whole client side damage fiasco, not to mention a ton of annoying bugs, but the fact is. This is not a game you can lump in with SWTOR and GW2 etc

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    It's the fashion, its what "the kids" are into these days.

    E.g. Neverwinter, tsw, swtor
  • IkedaIkeda Largo, FLPosts: 2,204Member Uncommon

    Honestly, ever since I was first ganked in UO I haven't trusted people online.  And the arsehats have consistently proven that the masses shouldn't be played with.  Some are ok Joes but for the most part these little 12 y/os and bra's/Bruh's/Bro's/Goon's make me want to participate less and less with others.

     

    If you must know, I sometimes enjoy sitting in town and watching people.  I occasionally chat about gear with them when I see something interesting.  That's pretty much the extent of my MM in today's ORPG.

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  • MimzelMimzel KristiansandPosts: 375Member
    Originally posted by Ikeda

    Honestly, ever since I was first ganked in UO I haven't trusted people online.  And the arsehats have consistently proven that the masses shouldn't be played with.  Some are ok Joes but for the most part these little 12 y/os and bra's/Bruh's/Bro's/Goon's make me want to participate less and less with others.

     

    If you must know, I sometimes enjoy sitting in town and watching people.  I occasionally chat about gear with them when I see something interesting.  That's pretty much the extent of my MM in today's ORPG.

    My post is not meant as a personal attack, but I found your statement to examplify quite well what is wrong with MMO's of today: They cater to you. You are simply the wrong kind of player.

    Many mmo-players of today are confused. They think they want to play an MMORPG, but they really dont. They are people who openly admit they dont like other people in their games. They just want their games to give them strangers to be around, like sitting on a park bench and watch strangers go by. You never talk to anyone. And by the sheer amount of games being catered to them, I just have to assume they are now in the majority. That is ultimately what's wrong with MMORPGs today: The majority of players dont like to play with other people.

    The flip side of the coin is of course the business aspect of it all. The Suits are interested in taking their money. So business is actually destroying the MMORPG genre and turning it into something else. MCSO should be our new label: Massively Confused Schizophrenic Online.

    Confused yet? If yes, you are probably an MMORPG player.

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,114Member Uncommon

    99% of the time I play solo.I'm not attracted to games that force a certain playstyle on me.I want ample solo content...or I won't play. It's that simple

    I want to play when i want to play...as long as I want to play....and not be forced to endure  other players  playstyle that is to dissimilar from mine. 

  • mrrshann618mrrshann618 Waseca, MNPosts: 227Member Uncommon

    Really quite simple.

    I get to basically choose the group I play with when I play an actual RPG.

    In an MMO I do not have that luxury. Mind you there are some days i have no problems with the bacon chatter and there are days when I basically turn all of general on ignore. I want to able to play at all times. Solo content is a must.

    What

     I have to wonder is why so many people go into an obvious themepark game and complain that it isn't a sandbox/doesn't have sandbox elements. That is a better question

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  • danwest58danwest58 Cincinnati, OHPosts: 976Member Uncommon

    The fact is that there are too many MMOS today so they need to cater to solo, and multiplayer type of gamers today to pay for all these new MMOS.  The fact that we need to have 4 dozen MMOS is really illogical.  Yes group play should be needed in an MMO, however I will not support large group play.  Being able to do content with 4 - 15 people is more than enough when it comes to group play.  This allows tighter nit communities to form.

    However today this is no longer the case.  They want to cater to as many people as possible so the industry can support hundreds of MMOS.  It’s the same Argument about needing LFG tools for instances and raids.  People do not want to have to be bothered to make friends, maintain a friends list, or find a guild that suits them.  They want to click a button and have the game Auto group them because playing an MMO outside of it is too much effort for them.  What I find funny is with the new MMOs coming out like EQNEXT that will have a large sandbox in the game people are going to be lost and will not adjust well to it.  I can see it already, people will want LFG tools to do UO Like Treasure hunting or to go fight in an open world dungeon that will kill them if they are solo or do UO like champion spawns.  Then they will bitch that the game is not accessible enough for them even though they can do the content with 2 or 3 friends. 

    Honestly I think the good old days of MMOs are gone.  Today the industry is trying to make games for everyone and make it big like WoW, however there are too many publishers making MMOs which is causing the MMO player to no longer be an MMO player, it’s more like a single or multiplayer lobby game.  

    image

  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,230Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by eAzydaman

    Hi,

    First of I understand that story missions are used in this game because of the TV show but why do all MMOs nowdays contain single player cut-scene stories? Why waste time on that when there are ALOT of single player games with far superior stories and gameplay.

    Age of conan , GW2, SWTOR etc etc all have these. Do people actually enjoy these? Why doesn't the developers spend time on more polish, co-op missions/quests, pvp etc.

    I remember back in my DAOC days that it had a really minor main quest but in the end of that you needed ALOT of people to help you complete it and that was actually alot of fun.

    Sorry if this upset some people who actually enjoy these missions but I just don't see the point of them in an MMO.

    /end rant :P

    a minor main quest?

    that was your epic story line quest giving you your epic armor!

     

    but it was performed in open world :>

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • danwest58danwest58 Cincinnati, OHPosts: 976Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by mrrshann618

    Really quite simple.

    I get to basically choose the group I play with when I play an actual RPG.

    In an MMO I do not have that luxury. Mind you there are some days i have no problems with the bacon chatter and there are days when I basically turn all of general on ignore. I want to able to play at all times. Solo content is a must.

    What

     I have to wonder is why so many people go into an obvious themepark game and complain that it isn't a sandbox/doesn't have sandbox elements. That is a better question

    I have a better question.  Why are players so hog tied to the LFG tool when new gams are coming out that will have a large sandbox element and will require grouping.  Take UO teasure hunting for example, a really good player might be able to do a level 5 Tmap.  Most will not.  So what is going to happen with a sandbox element like t-hunting?  Do you have a LFG tool that randomly creates groups for random events?  If you want to play in a sandbox MMO you need to make friends without the use of a LFG tool that is designed for themepark games.

    image

  • Tonin109Tonin109 ??, CAPosts: 201Member
    Originally posted by Shadanwolf

    99% of the time I play solo.I'm not attracted to games that force a certain playstyle on me.I want ample solo content...or I won't play. It's that simple

    I want to play when i want to play...as long as I want to play....and not be forced to endure  other players  playstyle that is to dissimilar from mine. 

    why do you play mmo if you play mmo

     

    image

  • WraithoneWraithone Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 3,592Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by eAzydaman

    Hi,

    First of I understand that story missions are used in this game because of the TV show but why do all MMOs nowdays contain single player cut-scene stories? Why waste time on that when there are ALOT of single player games with far superior stories and gameplay.

    Age of conan , GW2, SWTOR etc etc all have these. Do people actually enjoy these? Why doesn't the developers spend time on more polish, co-op missions/quests, pvp etc.

    I remember back in my DAOC days that it had a really minor main quest but in the end of that you needed ALOT of people to help you complete it and that was actually alot of fun.

    Sorry if this upset some people who actually enjoy these missions but I just don't see the point of them in an MMO.

    /end rant :P

    Because thats what the market wants.  It also wants good combat, and good graphics, and housing and various other things.  To the extent that a game provides these things (and their quality), is the extent that a game is a success.   That was one of the few aspects that I enjoyed in SWTOR.  I also tend to enjoy co op scenarios (like WoW's current) if they are done well.

  • Lazarus71Lazarus71 Celina, OHPosts: 1,025Member Uncommon

    People would do themselves a big favor if they would treat this as a persisten online third person shooter and not an MMO regardless of what the devs or anyone else has said.

    As to all the content being soloable that is completely up to the player as the tools are there to group. I personally like having the option to do one or the other as the mood strikes me.

    No signature, I don't have a pen

  • WhitebeardsWhitebeards TokyoPosts: 778Member
    Originally posted by Lazarus71

    People would do themselves a big favor if they would treat this as a persisten online third person shooter and not an MMO regardless of what the devs or anyone else has said.

    As to all the content being soloable that is completely up to the player as the tools are there to group. I personally like having the option to do one or the other as the mood strikes me.

    There are no tools for those who want to play with friends through story missions. That is what OP is talking about.

  • Lazarus71Lazarus71 Celina, OHPosts: 1,025Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Whitebeards
    Originally posted by Lazarus71

    People would do themselves a big favor if they would treat this as a persisten online third person shooter and not an MMO regardless of what the devs or anyone else has said.

    As to all the content being soloable that is completely up to the player as the tools are there to group. I personally like having the option to do one or the other as the mood strikes me.

    There are no tools for those who want to play with friends through story missions. That is what OP is talking about.

    While I find that part confusing it's not something I'm going to lose sleep over at night.

    No signature, I don't have a pen

  • BrownAleBrownAle fantasyland, MEPosts: 399Member

    this another one of those"they dont force people to group with me so the game is a solo-rpg not a mmo" type of threads?

     

    Im sorry, people like options.

     

    If you dont want a single player experience, then play with other people.  I agree its more fun this way.  Stop being lame and pretending its not possible to play with others.  This goes for just about every other mmo where people bitch about how theres no content wall every step of the way that requires you to be in a group to pass.

     

    Oh and for the counter argument that "theres no reward for doing group stuff"...if it means so much for you to make a thread like this then the fun of it is reward enough.  Yes in this game the reward is more rewards for grouping...so yeah...

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    If its completely ignorable like in gw2 I don't mind.

    I hate being forced to do sprpg stuff though, like in swtor. Gets me thinking why am I paying a sub for this when I could be playing Witcher 2, skyrim, terraria etc..
  • BrownAleBrownAle fantasyland, MEPosts: 399Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    If its completely ignorable like in gw2 I don't mind.

    I hate being forced to do sprpg stuff though, like in swtor. Gets me thinking why am I paying a sub for this when I could be playing Witcher 2, skyrim, terraria etc..

    Heres my frame of thought on the subject.

    I disliked GW2, in fact the only reason i played it was i got into beta, and then afterward since people are basically giving away their accounts.

    Defiance is a game that i would compare as a game that is the MOST like GW2 of all the others out there.

    I like Defiance.

     

    How do i like one not the other?

     

    Well.  The story in Defiance is a few thousand times better than GW2's story.  Content is distributed in the same manner, and both games are light on depth, light on complexity.  The big stand out is defiance is a shooter.  The combat is way more fun because of it.  The combat is much less boring, and it pairs well with the GW2 style add content and light depth and complexity.  Also its bot some cliche high fantasy middle-age world.

     

    Both games are "shallow" in depth and complexity.  However, i much rather aim and shoot, blow stuff up, get head shots, and drive around in an ATV pulling tricks as i get air...over the GW2 style boring tab target combat and boring travel.

    Tab target combat is fun when combat is more strategy based, with a lot of skills.

     

    If GW2 was a shooter, and its story wasnt incredibly bad, i would like GW2. 

     

    So what works well for Defiance, imo, made GW2 and total flop.  I know the game has a very defensive crowd (which i expect to appear after this post), and enjoys a high level of traffic on this site...but man...there are a LOT of people willing to sell their copy and account for dirt cheap (or in my case just give me the log in and email account to use whenever i want) 

    Not saying Defiance wont end up in the same situation, but i do know that Trion will keep making the game better and wont waste time making an 8 bit "lol why?" content pack for the game out of desperation.

  • WhitebeardsWhitebeards TokyoPosts: 778Member
    Originally posted by BrownAle
     

     

    So what works well for Defiance, imo, made GW2 and total flop.  I know the game has a very defensive crowd (which i expect to appear after this post), and enjoys a high level of traffic on this site...but man...there are a LOT of people willing to sell their copy and account for dirt cheap (or in my case just give me the log in and email account to use whenever i want) 

    Not saying Defiance wont end up in the same situation, but i do know that Trion will keep making the game better and wont waste time making an 8 bit "lol why?" content pack for the game out of desperation.

    Well i hope it was a total flop for you because financialy it was a very successful B2P game and inspired devs of games like TSW and Defiance to follow in footstep of GW2. if GW2 didn't exist Defiance would be still going for 15 bucks a month route.

    Also i find it ironic that you are saying that GW2 has a very defensive crowd. ;) Defiance has same level of defensive people who would jump on your for mentioning something slightly negative. You yourself have been doing it.

    I haven't played GW2 yet but i know that game set a precednt for B2P model.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,452Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by eAzydaman
    Why waste time on that when there are ALOT of single player games with far superior stories and gameplay.

    Doesn't this belong in the solo vs group play thread? And hasn't your question been answered ad nauseum in that thread?

    um /end rant

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by eAzydaman
    Hi,First of I understand that story missions are used in this game because of the TV show but why do all MMOs nowdays contain single player cut-scene stories? Why waste time on that when there are ALOT of single player games with far superior stories and gameplay.Age of conan , GW2, SWTOR etc etc all have these. Do people actually enjoy these? Why doesn't the developers spend time on more polish, co-op missions/quests, pvp etc.I remember back in my DAOC days that it had a really minor main quest but in the end of that you needed ALOT of people to help you complete it and that was actually alot of fun.Sorry if this upset some people who actually enjoy these missions but I just don't see the point of them in an MMO./end rant :P

    It comes down to what people seemingly want in their MMOs. It seems like that is a single player RPG experience, with multiplayer content in a world shared with a lot of other people. Combine that with publishers wanting players being dependent upon the developer for a longer period of time than one weekend, and you could end up with something like Defiance.

    That doesn't mean everyone wants that type of game, but there were indications to the people who wrote Defiance that what people wanted was the single player RPG experience.

    I haven't played the game, but I would probably take more issue with the quality of that content, rather than the content existing. I can't really say for now though, since I'm not playing the game. I will say that the show seems interesting, kind of like a wild west show, but scifi.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • sycofiendsycofiend Frederick, MDPosts: 128Member
    Originally posted by BrownAle

    this another one of those"they dont force people to group with me so the game is a solo-rpg not a mmo" type of threads?

     

    Im sorry, people like options.

     

    If you dont want a single player experience, then play with other people.  I agree its more fun this way.  Stop being lame and pretending its not possible to play with others.  This goes for just about every other mmo where people bitch about how theres no content wall every step of the way that requires you to be in a group to pass.

     

    Oh and for the counter argument that "theres no reward for doing group stuff"...if it means so much for you to make a thread like this then the fun of it is reward enough.  Yes in this game the reward is more rewards for grouping...so yeah...

    I am enjoying Defiance, but I am a more traditional MMO player, never laid hands on a console shooter before. The biggest thing I see lacking from the community side, is no obvious way to communicate with other players (like just general scrolling chat)    at one point I randomly heard people talking which through me for a loop, and maybe console gamers used to this way, but for me I felt muted and unable to communiate with other people because of the lack of chat window.

    That and no obvious social hubs,  just action or ammo / item boxes

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