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I'm trying to understand the appeal of this game

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  • korent1991korent1991 CakovecPosts: 1,390Member
    Originally posted by Mardukk
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    It's less cartoony, but its still cartoony.

    If you look at wild star or wow's characters or world you will find exagerated proportions and angles.

    There is no such thing in GW2. It might have adopted a more vivid color palettebut but it aims to be a more "real" representation of the world and its inhabitants.

    Wild Star's art design follows its whimsical nature.

    And last I checked, adults (some adults) can still appreciate whimsy.

    edit: additionally, if you actually zoom in and look at the skin of any guild wars 2 charcter you will actually find skin texture and small imperfections.

     

    Put GW2 on medium settings it does start to look very Cartoon Stylized.  But on max settings GW2 doesn't look anything like WoW.  It's really an odd game that changes so much by adjusting the graphics settings a little bit.

     

    OP is not as desperate for something different as many of us.  I really dislike stylized cartoon graphics but I'm so desperate for some different ideas/gameplay in the genre I'm willing to over look the graphics.  Gameplay is infinitely more important than graphics. 

    not really..

     

    these were all taken on medium settings...

    On topic... it's not really important what gstyle the game uses as long as its fun and has good mechanics with a good company/devs to back it up with updates and/or expansions/DLC and constant upgrades when needed...

    WOW still attracts alot of people (yes, alot of people also quits) but it doesn't mean people who play the game are immature or whatever (I guess you're trying to say gstyle is immature so I guess that's the word you were targeting?). I mean, why should someone feel like he shouldn't be playing some game becaus of it's art style?

    It's like saying "cartoons and animated movies are for kids". I'm sure alot of people would jump right on the flame train instantly :D 

    With that said, I don't really see much in this game that would interest ME. It doesn't look like there's much to offer apart from the "same old, same old" thing that I've played for too long and overburned it. It does "look" kinda okay and I guess they're not really targeting for the top 5 places of mmorpg titles. :D

    "Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
    -------------------------------

    image
  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by keithian
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Vembumees

    Might have as well made a thread with a question why would anyone above 17 want to play video games. What the hell has age got to do with taste. There are as many successful adult players in games like maple story like in Eve or any other game. Stupid and ignorant thread.

    well said :)

    I was being sarcastic about the specific age line so stop crying. So far, almost nobody has said anything that answers the question I asked, only defensive rants. I guess this means the game really won't pull too much of the WOW crowd away let alone those who don't like WOW anymore.

    Again you're making assumptions and jumping to conclusions that you've already formed.  How is anyone supposed to tell you're being sarcastic.  It could be Vembumees was also employing sarcasm to make a point.  I doubt anyone thinks you literally meant 17.  I got the impression that you consider the style to be juvenille.

    Nobody can seriously answer your question becasue it is stated from a false premise.  Does that make sense?

  • GrohmmGrohmm ParisPosts: 7Member

    Well, i'v read the topic so I'll try to respond with facts!

    First of all, yes, the game looks cartoony. But not the same cartoony look as WoW. The characters are really Art-stylized, with special body constitution and not realistical body like WoW humans or undead, or elves. In WS, even the human seems to come from a Ratchet and clank game or a Pixar movie.

    The graphisms fit with the global humor of the game. The atmosphere is really unique, and the art contributes to the immersion.

    In my point of view, I see the graphisms like an expression of the skills of the artists. The art is clean, the graphic engine is really powerfull with really nice textures who do not age. It's not like a 2005 game. We don't see the polygons everywhere and the crapy textures we see in WoW.

    If you look closer into the graphic mechanisms, you can see that the faces of NPC/ player characters are totally animated, and it feels really nice. The whole bodies are well-animated, from the feet to the fingers who are independants, not like WoW for example. The esquives, sprint, swin, jump/double-jump animations are completely fluid. So you absolutely enjoy the game when you play it :)

    The gear is fully textured with the relief and animations of different parts. I don't know of they use the tessellation process, but it's not like a "printed texture" on the character body like WoW.

    When we look at the world, we can see that he is living!!! The fauna and flora follows their lives, the scavengers eat the corpses, the plants interact with close npc/pc. The wind affects plants, trees, flags, sheets etc... And the water is amazing :o

    For me, it's way more realistic than games like GW or Rift, because the sensation of a real world around is just perfect. Look at how characters of GW run :/ They have a stick in their a** :o

    And we are only talking about the graphisms and the art! The features are simply bluffing, in my opinion, WS is just THE mmo I was waiting for since many years!! The MMORPG of my dreams :P

    So I'm 25 years old, I do a lot of sport, I like fashion, movies, music, cars, trip and I'm handsome (+ i'm not English, so i hope you can understand all my answer). So i'm not the stereotype you can imagine, and I hope this answer will help changing your opinion about this game, and cartoony games in general :) Because It would be really silly if you missed a great game only for his graphisms!

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,557Member Uncommon
    I know lots of adults who love spyro the dragon and ratchet and clank games...I dont think its graphics are going to hurt the game at all.  Just because a game has cartoon type graphics doesnt make it only for kids...look at Bioshock Infinite.  mmos that try to go for photo-realism gets dated faster and are harder to improve to stay looking up to date with new games.  WoW didnt look as good as it does now when it came out, they improved the textures a lot.
  • NikopolNikopol The ZonePosts: 626Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by tkreep
    I know lots of adults who love spyro the dragon and ratchet and clank games...I dont think its graphics are going to hurt the game at all.  Just because a game has cartoon type graphics doesnt make it only for kids....

    Yeah, in my experience older people actually prefer stylized (or even cartoony) visuals over realistic ones.

  • reeereeereeereee Posts: 1,203Member Uncommon
    I gave this game a second look because it's not in a tradition fantasy setting and has sandbox elements.
  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    I never saw GW2's graphics as particularly cartoony.  As opposed to what?  TSW?  That game looks awkward to me.  Wildstar's are definitely cartoony, but I'm not sure why it bothers people so much.  How many of the world's most iconic franchises have been "cartoony"?  Answer:  A whole lot.
  • AldersAlders Jack Burton'sPosts: 1,857Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nikopol
    Originally posted by tkreep
    I know lots of adults who love spyro the dragon and ratchet and clank games...I dont think its graphics are going to hurt the game at all.  Just because a game has cartoon type graphics doesnt make it only for kids....

    Yeah, in my experience older people actually prefer stylized (or even cartoony) visuals over realistic ones.

    I have the exact opposite experience, myself included.

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,557Member Uncommon
    I tried to get back into vanguard and eq2 both of which came out after WoW and i couldnt stand how bad the graphics looked but i know i loved them when they first released...but when i went back to playing WoW again i didnt have that same feeling about the visuals cuz it still looks good but better with higher res textures but vanguard and eq2 still has mid 2000s graphics. 
  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,557Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Alders
    Originally posted by Nikopol
    Originally posted by tkreep
    I know lots of adults who love spyro the dragon and ratchet and clank games...I dont think its graphics are going to hurt the game at all.  Just because a game has cartoon type graphics doesnt make it only for kids....

    Yeah, in my experience older people actually prefer stylized (or even cartoony) visuals over realistic ones.

    I have the exact opposite experience, myself included.

    When it comes to single player games I agree with you but mmos i can like stylized graphics although i do prefer mass effect graphics but i can understand why they go with stylized graphics as long it doesnt look like hello kittie...

  • AIMonsterAIMonster Apopka, FLPosts: 2,059Member

    I'll bite, differences from WoW:

     

    • Action oriented combat with more similarities to GW2 than WoW.  WoW is pretty much in the "combat simulator" genre.  I could go on and detail even individual difference here if you want.
    • Flexibility of builds
    • Housing as a primary feature
    • Sci-fi themed
    • Leveling content caters to your style of play with the path system
    • Warplots allowing for a sort of Guild vs. Guild gameplay
    • Exploration more encouraged, things like jumping puzzles are in the game
    • 40 man raiding (yes, it was in vanilla WoW, but not anymore)
    • Double jump and gravity changes
    • Bosses can be CC'd so these skills are still useful in raids/groups
    • Has dynamic events
    • Sandbox elements, especially with the settler path
    • More open world bosses
    • You can capture raid bosses and use them against your enemies in Warplots
    • Crafting is completely unique and likely way more flexible than WoW's
    • No harvesting skill, you harvest by smashing things
    • Harder leveling curve (supposedly)
    • An AA system seems to be in place
    • AND your path levels seperately
    • No Whack-A-Mole healing
    • You can AoE loot (called vacuuming)
    • Loot splatters from monsters and you pick it up that way, rather than loot corpses
    That's just some of the known differences from WoW right now.  I'm sure there are a lot more.  The game has a lot in common with GW2 too, which isn't a bad thing either.

    image

    Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:
    image

  • keithiankeithian Los Angeles, CAPosts: 3,042Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Grohmm

    Well, i'v read the topic so I'll try to respond with facts!

    First of all, yes, the game looks cartoony. But not the same cartoony look as WoW. The characters are really Art-stylized, with special body constitution and not realistical body like WoW humans or undead, or elves. In WS, even the human seems to come from a Ratchet and clank game or a Pixar movie.

    The graphisms fit with the global humor of the game. The atmosphere is really unique, and the art contributes to the immersion.

    In my point of view, I see the graphisms like an expression of the skills of the artists. The art is clean, the graphic engine is really powerfull with really nice textures who do not age. It's not like a 2005 game. We don't see the polygons everywhere and the crapy textures we see in WoW.

    If you look closer into the graphic mechanisms, you can see that the faces of NPC/ player characters are totally animated, and it feels really nice. The whole bodies are well-animated, from the feet to the fingers who are independants, not like WoW for example. The esquives, sprint, swin, jump/double-jump animations are completely fluid. So you absolutely enjoy the game when you play it :)

    The gear is fully textured with the relief and animations of different parts. I don't know of they use the tessellation process, but it's not like a "printed texture" on the character body like WoW.

    When we look at the world, we can see that he is living!!! The fauna and flora follows their lives, the scavengers eat the corpses, the plants interact with close npc/pc. The wind affects plants, trees, flags, sheets etc... And the water is amazing :o

    For me, it's way more realistic than games like GW or Rift, because the sensation of a real world around is just perfect. Look at how characters of GW run :/ They have a stick in their a** :o

    And we are only talking about the graphisms and the art! The features are simply bluffing, in my opinion, WS is just THE mmo I was waiting for since many years!! The MMORPG of my dreams :P

    So I'm 25 years old, I do a lot of sport, I like fashion, movies, music, cars, trip and I'm handsome (+ i'm not English, so i hope you can understand all my answer). So i'm not the stereotype you can imagine, and I hope this answer will help changing your opinion about this game, and cartoony games in general :) Because It would be really silly if you missed a great game only for his graphisms!

    First off, thank you for the mature response. It actually convinced me to read the whole post lol. Second, you made me laugh at the handsome part, that was funny hehe. Anyway, your post is fair enough. I will most likely try this MMO regardless of my initial impressions because I like to actually play something to form a final opinion, but when I meant living, I was referring more to the NPCs, Day Night Cycles, swimming, all of that stuff where it doesn't feel like everything is glued into place. Guild Wars 2 did a good job of this in their major cities, not to mention the Human City was the nicest looking one I had ever seen in an MMO.

    There Is Always Hope!

  • keithiankeithian Los Angeles, CAPosts: 3,042Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AIMonster

    I'll bite, differences from WoW:

     

    • Action oriented combat with more similarities to GW2 than WoW.  WoW is pretty much in the "combat simulator" genre.  I could go on and detail even individual difference here if you want.
    • Flexibility of builds
    • Housing as a primary feature
    • Sci-fi themed
    • Leveling content caters to your style of play with the path system
    • Warplots allowing for a sort of Guild vs. Guild gameplay
    • Exploration more encouraged, things like jumping puzzles are in the game
    • 40 man raiding (yes, it was in vanilla WoW, but not anymore)
    • Double jump and gravity changes
    • Bosses can be CC'd so these skills are still useful in raids/groups
    • Has dynamic events
    • Sandbox elements, especially with the settler path
    • More open world bosses
    • You can capture raid bosses and use them against your enemies in Warplots
    • Crafting is completely unique and likely way more flexible than WoW's
    • No harvesting skill, you harvest by smashing things
    • Harder leveling curve (supposedly)
    • An AA system seems to be in place
    • AND your path levels seperately
    • No Whack-A-Mole healing
    • You can AoE loot (called vacuuming)
    • Loot splatters from monsters and you pick it up that way, rather than loot corpses
    That's just some of the known differences from WoW right now.  I'm sure there are a lot more.  The game has a lot in common with GW2 too, which isn't a bad thing either.

    Thank you. Can you explain a few things to me. A couple of points were interesting that you wrote:

    1) What do you mean that housing is a primary feature? Is it different from housing in other MMOs?

    2) I haven't seen examples of Dynamic Events. Can you show me some examples? Ill try googling this further. GW2 dynamic events though not bad weren't what was originally advertised.

    3) What did you mean by Sandbox elements?

     

    There Is Always Hope!

  • MargulisMargulis Glendale, AZPosts: 1,614Member
    Originally posted by AIMonster

    I'll bite, differences from WoW:

     

    • Action oriented combat with more similarities to GW2 than WoW.  WoW is pretty much in the "combat simulator" genre.  I could go on and detail even individual difference here if you want.
    • Flexibility of builds
    • Housing as a primary feature
    • Sci-fi themed
    • Leveling content caters to your style of play with the path system
    • Warplots allowing for a sort of Guild vs. Guild gameplay
    • Exploration more encouraged, things like jumping puzzles are in the game
    • 40 man raiding (yes, it was in vanilla WoW, but not anymore)
    • Double jump and gravity changes
    • Bosses can be CC'd so these skills are still useful in raids/groups
    • Has dynamic events
    • Sandbox elements, especially with the settler path
    • More open world bosses
    • You can capture raid bosses and use them against your enemies in Warplots
    • Crafting is completely unique and likely way more flexible than WoW's
    • No harvesting skill, you harvest by smashing things
    • Harder leveling curve (supposedly)
    • An AA system seems to be in place
    • AND your path levels seperately
    • No Whack-A-Mole healing
    • You can AoE loot (called vacuuming)
    • Loot splatters from monsters and you pick it up that way, rather than loot corpses
    That's just some of the known differences from WoW right now.  I'm sure there are a lot more.  The game has a lot in common with GW2 too, which isn't a bad thing either.

    Where did you hear that there is an AA system?  That interests me.

  • kizan0601kizan0601 Gadsden, ALPosts: 55Member
    Originally posted by tkreep
    I tried to get back into vanguard and eq2 both of which came out after WoW and i couldnt stand how bad the graphics looked but i know i loved them when they first released...but when i went back to playing WoW again i didnt have that same feeling about the visuals cuz it still looks good but better with higher res textures but vanguard and eq2 still has mid 2000s graphics. 

    Eq2 was released before WoW

  • kizan0601kizan0601 Gadsden, ALPosts: 55Member
    Originally posted by Caldrin
    Originally posted by Smikis
    new game, new content, focuses on pve, its hard to believe but they dont make pve mmorpgs anymore, even if most succesfull mmorpgs are all pve based,

    really?

    Most MMORPGS released are geared towards PVE and have some PVP tagged on..

    I can only really think of two main steam MMOs that are or where PVE only on release or after.. EQ2 and vanguard. tho i have probally forgot a few..  but anyway there are very few dedicated PVP mmorpgs..

    Any MMORPG that has been really sucesfull has had both PVE and PVP but mainly PVE..

     

     

    When it comes to wildstar i agree with the OP..

    Both Eq2 and Vanguard had PvP servers at release

  • PanzerbasePanzerbase Chicago, ILPosts: 423Member
    They're betting on old school WOW design with a revamped and obviously new setting. You don't have to like it but many people enjoyed the original WOW and considered it better than what WOW evolved into.  It's their gamble, time will tell if they will succeed. For my part I shall give it a try and hope they nail it. 
  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,145Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by keithian

    I watched a few videos and the Total Biscuits play and after watching I'm trying to understand why anyone playing current available MMOs anyone would jump into this.

    ...

    Over 50 here and barely can wait to put my hands on this game because it looks very FUN. That is only thing that matter for me. Said this I never (not anymore) pvp, I never play (not anymore) games that can not move avatars with pressing both buttons, never play 1st person, ...

  • IsawaIsawa Middle 0 Nowhere, ORPosts: 1,051Member
    Originally posted by keithian
    Originally posted by AIMonster

    I'll bite, differences from WoW:

     

    • Action oriented combat with more similarities to GW2 than WoW.  WoW is pretty much in the "combat simulator" genre.  I could go on and detail even individual difference here if you want.
    • Flexibility of builds
    • Housing as a primary feature
    • Sci-fi themed
    • Leveling content caters to your style of play with the path system
    • Warplots allowing for a sort of Guild vs. Guild gameplay
    • Exploration more encouraged, things like jumping puzzles are in the game
    • 40 man raiding (yes, it was in vanilla WoW, but not anymore)
    • Double jump and gravity changes
    • Bosses can be CC'd so these skills are still useful in raids/groups
    • Has dynamic events
    • Sandbox elements, especially with the settler path
    • More open world bosses
    • You can capture raid bosses and use them against your enemies in Warplots
    • Crafting is completely unique and likely way more flexible than WoW's
    • No harvesting skill, you harvest by smashing things
    • Harder leveling curve (supposedly)
    • An AA system seems to be in place
    • AND your path levels seperately
    • No Whack-A-Mole healing
    • You can AoE loot (called vacuuming)
    • Loot splatters from monsters and you pick it up that way, rather than loot corpses
    That's just some of the known differences from WoW right now.  I'm sure there are a lot more.  The game has a lot in common with GW2 too, which isn't a bad thing either.

    Thank you. Can you explain a few things to me. A couple of points were interesting that you wrote:

    1) What do you mean that housing is a primary feature? Is it different from housing in other MMOs?

    2) I haven't seen examples of Dynamic Events. Can you show me some examples? Ill try googling this further. GW2 dynamic events though not bad weren't what was originally advertised.

    3) What did you mean by Sandbox elements?

     

    1) Official housing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlP8ShpFZII and extended info on housing Press Demo - Pax East - 46 Minutes

    2) They haven't focused on anything long enough in any demo to show this off. They also haven't shown how events scale based on party size or player presence.

    3) Little information is revealed on the Settler and Scientist. The settler is suppose to be able to build up towns, and establish new settlements (not sure on requirements here). The settler can also set up camp fires (and turrets revealed in released patch notes) as additional features out in the open world. Some form of terraforming is also in the game, how much the players can use this is unknown.

    Edited link to the offical housing via WildStar's channel, and this game is going to have some great exploring - too bad if you can't get over the look image

  • JinxysJinxys TinkerTownPosts: 393Member Uncommon
    The player housing system really stands out to me. I love the video I saw on that. Of course that is not the only reason I will try it ^_^
  • statrickstatrick New york, NYPosts: 13Member
    Originally posted by AIMonster

    I'll bite, differences from WoW:

     

    • Action oriented combat with more similarities to GW2 than WoW.  WoW is pretty much in the "combat simulator" genre.  I could go on and detail even individual difference here if you want.
    • Flexibility of builds
    • Housing as a primary feature
    • Sci-fi themed
    • Leveling content caters to your style of play with the path system
    • Warplots allowing for a sort of Guild vs. Guild gameplay
    • Exploration more encouraged, things like jumping puzzles are in the game
    • 40 man raiding (yes, it was in vanilla WoW, but not anymore)
    • Double jump and gravity changes
    • Bosses can be CC'd so these skills are still useful in raids/groups
    • Has dynamic events
    • Sandbox elements, especially with the settler path
    • More open world bosses
    • You can capture raid bosses and use them against your enemies in Warplots
    • Crafting is completely unique and likely way more flexible than WoW's
    • No harvesting skill, you harvest by smashing things
    • Harder leveling curve (supposedly)
    • An AA system seems to be in place
    • AND your path levels seperately
    • No Whack-A-Mole healing
    • You can AoE loot (called vacuuming)
    • Loot splatters from monsters and you pick it up that way, rather than loot corpses
    That's just some of the known differences from WoW right now.  I'm sure there are a lot more.  The game has a lot in common with GW2 too, which isn't a bad thing either.

    You can add full dye system to that list.

  • KatillaKatilla Nashua, NHPosts: 682Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by statrick
    Originally posted by AIMonster

    I'll bite, differences from WoW:

     

    • Action oriented combat with more similarities to GW2 than WoW.  WoW is pretty much in the "combat simulator" genre.  I could go on and detail even individual difference here if you want.
    • Flexibility of builds
    • Housing as a primary feature
    • Sci-fi themed
    • Leveling content caters to your style of play with the path system
    • Warplots allowing for a sort of Guild vs. Guild gameplay
    • Exploration more encouraged, things like jumping puzzles are in the game
    • 40 man raiding (yes, it was in vanilla WoW, but not anymore)
    • Double jump and gravity changes
    • Bosses can be CC'd so these skills are still useful in raids/groups
    • Has dynamic events
    • Sandbox elements, especially with the settler path
    • More open world bosses
    • You can capture raid bosses and use them against your enemies in Warplots
    • Crafting is completely unique and likely way more flexible than WoW's
    • No harvesting skill, you harvest by smashing things
    • Harder leveling curve (supposedly)
    • An AA system seems to be in place
    • AND your path levels seperately
    • No Whack-A-Mole healing
    • You can AoE loot (called vacuuming)
    • Loot splatters from monsters and you pick it up that way, rather than loot corpses
    That's just some of the known differences from WoW right now.  I'm sure there are a lot more.  The game has a lot in common with GW2 too, which isn't a bad thing either.

    You can add full dye system to that list.

    exactly.... i'm actually really happy about the housing system and can see myself losing lots of hours just on my housing plot :)

  • AIMonsterAIMonster Apopka, FLPosts: 2,059Member
    Originally posted by keithian

    Thank you. Can you explain a few things to me. A couple of points were interesting that you wrote:

    1) What do you mean that housing is a primary feature? Is it different from housing in other MMOs?

    2) I haven't seen examples of Dynamic Events. Can you show me some examples? Ill try googling this further. GW2 dynamic events though not bad weren't what was originally advertised.

    3) What did you mean by Sandbox elements?

     

    1)  Wildstar was built from the start to have housing as a feature.  There are plenty of videos on the housing feature (linked from other responses), but housing will contain both pure cosmetic stuff and practical things like raid portals, harvesting nodes, and more.

    2)  Some paths, in particular the soldier "holdouts" trigger dynamic events in the world.  Anyone who happens along while a soldier is doing a holdout can participate and get rewarded, and they scale like other games with dynamic events.

    3)  Settlers in particular have many sandbox elements.  They can setup various structures out in the world from simple campfires that provide buffs to those who use it to entire hubs complete with various vendors and bankers.

    image

    Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:
    image

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    1 so why is it instanced off and not integrated with the game? I mean if you tack a feature on later it usually ends up instanced - e.g. wow pvp.
    2 gw2, tabular rasa, war, rift etc..
    3 buffs and player run stalls aren't sandbox. Lots of themeparks have them e.g. EQ, daoc, eq2, aion.
  • AIMonsterAIMonster Apopka, FLPosts: 2,059Member
    Originally posted by Margulis

    Where did you hear that there is an AA system?  That interests me.

    I remember reading about it on the Q&A on Wildstar Central forums regarding the leaked patch notes, let me see if I can dig it up.

    Found it Post #168 (Page 9) on the Wildstar Central thread "Official M30 Patch Note Q&A thread":

    Will there be Racial Skills? like in WoW because it could affect raids like in WoW everyone went to Horde over Alliance due to stats
    We have a very clever solution to this that unfortunately isn't in the patch notes :(" />

    Actually I mentioned this in public but never saw it picked up: The costs of things in the Elder Advancement system (to be revealed later) is influenced by your race choice. So stuff you'd think would be natural to the Granok is much cheaper, requiring less elder advancement, while stuff you'd associate with, well, smarter races is more expensive.

    This way you can't permanently gimp yourself by a choice you made when you had the lowest information you'll ever have in the game (creating your first character) - but you can set yourself up with a little more work required for PvP or elder PvE optimality.

    image

    Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:
    image

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