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Who Thinks This Game Is Gonna Fail? It Will Be Dead Within 5-7 Years
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Ya any IP you pick you gona get expectations and fan rage. When making a IP into a MMO you have to dance between the IP fans and also making sure MMOers are happy as well. Its a fine line to walk. With CU needing 600'000 in 6 days I wonder if ESO is going to net more DAoC MMO fans.
Perhaps you know something that the rest of us don't... So the players, through "gear and the crafting system", are going to be able to affect frontiers, create rogue factions, have workshops a/o vendors with exclusive player-created items, etc, etc? *ahem* (btw, all these features are present in other games, no sci-fi talk here).
Anyway...
Before replying, I've been surfing for a while, looking for "gear and crafting" related info and its apparent influence on politics a/o economy, in case I had missed something you know. I'm sorry but I haven't found anything in that regard. What I do have read (again) is this article with Paul Sage on "Elder Scrolls Online's endgame, PvP and crafting":
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/19/the-elder-scrolls-online-interview-paul-sage/
In essence, I don't find anything substancially different from what an MMO like SWTOR (now that's been mentioned already) proposed, much less anything that could indicate that players are gonna influence politics or economy (and when I say economy, I mean REAL economy, not a minigame (crafting) and some golden-items gambling in an "Auction House", heh) or that this game's foundations can provide substancial meta-game in any way, shape or form.
What I see is talk about "endgame", a concept that belongs to the realm of the extreme themeparkish - and which is usually based on obsessive-compulsive behaviour over iterative activities, as my experience with "no-lifers in a themepark" has shown me.
In any case, my personal and non-transferable opinion.
(But please, for the sake of your mental health you may want to consider my advice: know when to stop after you've cleared that dungeon or instance in the "adventure zones" for the gazillionth time or your pal's been crowned emperor for the 9^67 time...).
EDIT: typos
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
I think ESO will do just fine nothing crazy but fine like LOTRO etc.
I doubt it goes the path of SWTOR.
"Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied."
^MMORPG.com
Yeah I agree with you, however certain games are worse then others. I think that this franchise should have been left alone because of its giant following. You could say just the opposite of course, however if they mess up then they could indirectly damage the franchise instead of raking in the big bucks. I kinda feel the same way with WOD however I am willing to wait and see what happens.
even SWTOR is doing just fine after it went F2P
there will likely be a max exodus of players after the first couple of months similar to SWTOR but it will be left with a solid decently sized player base.
also, while that is going on, the server will always look and feel packed.
Not my intention to pick on you but I think your arguments are rather flawed.
First, it's not as simplye as "trying to look for a compromise between 'IP fans' and 'MMOers'", as:
- Although the MMO genre was rooted in the RPG tabletop systems when it was born, nowadays has been diversified: you have more arcade-ish, story driven mmos, sandbox oriented mmos, action based mmos, even you have a scarlet blade mmo (he he he). To put all the possible target audiences for these mmo models under one label is myopia and a gross reductiosm, to put it mildly.
- 'TES IP fans' also play MMOs, maybe not all of them but many, many do. IP fans and MMOers are not separate entities.
Secondly, "investors" and "purchasers of a finished product" are different things, ergo, number of CU investors is not the best indicator to measure a certain audience following to whatever game. People are much more reluctant to play as an investor than as a purchaser.
Green Regards
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
I did not say anything about politics, I said crafting system. Crafters will have best in slot for some items and for all other slots players can make gear better with crafting. The devs have said very clearly they want ESO to have a rich system for crafters and if done right should make a very rich player driven economy. Also there is no PvP gear, gear is gear. This also strongly hints to less WoW treadmill and more towards DAoC gear system but that is just an educated guess by whats been said and who the devs are.
quality of the state is also important, you can keep a comatoze patient alive for ages, but what's the quality of it?
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
No matter what PvP system they use, PvP almost always impacts PvE. IMO the 3 faction lock is the one that will impact the pure PvEer the least. As they will have their play space and no PvPers to attack them or trick them into being flagged. They can PvE all they want and no one can attack them.
This game isn't going to go away anymore than SWToR has. It will go through a number of changes as it tries to find its market. It won't be a huge success (although I've sure the devs will tell us otherwise and they play with numbers), but it will limp along.
It will do better than TSW, but worse than GW2.
The main selling point besides Skyrim-lite is RvRvR. And yet looking at CU which is all about realm play and how its doing should make the ESO devs a little worried. My guess is they will play down RvRvR if CU doesn't do well and lean more toward how much the game is like Skyrim.
I have lots of friends who wont or have not played MMOs and are huge TES fans. Many of them are making ESO their first MMO. I think you assume to much.
Excuse me Sir, but you underlined the "3) Players don't influence politics or economy" line in my previous post and then said that I was ignorant on how crafting and gear would affect the aforementioned, so...
And about your speech on crafting and "player-driven economy" you say nothing besides the "devs have said is going to be very rich". Ok, ok....
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
Read my reply to what I highlighted =-P
I would then argue that the game wasn't "dead" to the few people who played it. Heck, I've been playing Vanguard off and on over the years and those who were in the game, though they wished there were more players, were having a good time.
ESO will launch in a lot better shape than Vanguard. I can't say for certian it's going to be a resounding success but it's not going to "fail".
Worse case scenario is that they move it to f2p and get their audience that way.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I think all MMOs will end up doing something close to Vanguard F2P or GW2 level of B2P in the end. With some giving extras to sub customers like SWToR and SoE does. I think ESO will be far from fail but I dont think the hardcore raiding guilds wont stick around. IMO I am ok with that. My hardcore raiding days are behind me =-)
It's your semi casual mixed pve / pvpers that you want to aim a big budget mmo at.
Of course you can have specialist mmos for niche audiences like eve too.
Alright, let me just make one thing clear. If you were to get your way, assuming that you have a powerful PC, it would probably not matter if the game had open world PvP because even though Skyrim's graphics weren't the best, they would still be too much to place onto one giant open world MMO. Especially if you want graphical improvements.
Basically how it works is that if you design a game to be top of the lot it will take you a longer time. By the time you are halfway through, new technologies will have been released that are much better. Best way to improve graphics are by an overhaul when those options show themselves in 3-7 years.
But yes, I agree. I would like to have open world PvP. I would prefer if you were flagged for PvP upon entering another alliance's borders and unable to attack the people of that alliance unless they attack you first. Because it grants you freedom. What I wouldn't want is for people to gank some casual gamers doing innocent PvE, causing them to stop playing the game and denying TESO their income they need for future expansions.
Pure PvEers hate the flag system. Its to easy to force someone to flag.
For most MMO's I'd ask "How?". In this case, you've got a fair point. Accidently hitting someone whom stands right infront of a mob could happen. Especially since the "tab-targeting" seems to be a very light one of the sorts. I stand corrected.
Stelth and stand behind someone PvEing till AE hits you. Or make a alt in a low level area like Barrens in WoW and flag yourself and ask for buffs. While your friends outside of town kill anyone who leaves flagged. Had some friends in WoW who did that. Also if you stand on someone long enough, had people do it to me. You will get a tab mistake or a AE mistake and then you die. Some quests flag you and I have seen players camp areas like that and as I said pure PvEers hate that. Every new game system brings new ways to mess with PvP flagging and creative people find a way. Im fine with it but my wife gets flagged and she ports to town to wait it out no matter where or what we are doing. She hates PvP lol.
If they used the Skyrim engine/graphics the game would be awful, absolutely no two ways about it. While Skyrim is a beautiful game and I love it, the game is designed specifically for a single player RPG. The graphics would make any kind of large conflict completely unplayable, you have to remember they are aiming for hundreds of players to be able to be on the screen engaging each other. This is simply not possible running a game with high end high res graphics.
While I agree with you on the PvP being not confined to a single zone I understand entirely why they decided to go this route. Having free world PvP basically forces it upon players regardless of whether they want to or not. There is nothing more frustrating to a casual or PvE only player than being killed in their home zones by some guy with awesome gear who is hunting down players, and there is little to prevent griefing in a system like this.
They have however said the Cyrodiil zone will be HUGE, and I think this is about as good a solution as you can hope for. They have said there will be questing and other activities besides outright PvP and objective based capture in Cyrodiil and while we won't know if this is true till the game launches I like the idea. The sheer size of the zone should allow players to find areas more suitable to the type of PvP they are looking for be it large group, small group, or more solo style PvP.
The final thing to remember is that the MMO player-base has grown substantially from the early days of EQ, UO, AC etc. There is a growing section of players who were introduced to MMO's through WoW and really enjoy the PvE aspect of the MMO genre. I am inclined to think this game will be more PvP focused than some of those players might like, but we have still yet to hear much in terms of specifics on both Adventure zones and even Cyrodiil extras. I can easily imagine PvE objectives/bosses in the massive Cyrodiil zone that will make PvP feel very different from the objective based PvP that they have previously mentioned and gone in depth into.
-Aklor
Did... did someone just admit they were wrong? On the internet?
Dude, that's a classy move, but be careful. This kind of thing might break the webz.
I had forgotten all about that stuff. I never had that problem though, as I only played as a rogue in WoW. But that was many a years ago.
Usually when I get too bothered by PvP I end up playing singleplayer games for awhile, but aye, excellent point. However I do believe that it adds depth to the game to be able to do stuff like that. In any case, I'll just trust that Matt Firor makes a proper MMO. DAoC still stands, even though I've never tried it, he might actually ace this one too.
Still, seamless world with flagged open world PvP (except in Cyrodiil) would be ideal for me, atleast.
I don't know what you people are thinking. This game has vaporware written all over it.
Run while you still can.