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Why the Defiance hate?

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  • IsturiIsturi Phoenix, AZPosts: 1,509Member
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by thark
     

     Well, I sort of agree with you here..But only to some degree, since whatever they do there will always be ways to cheat anyway

    The hackers will NOT go away easily..and NOT easily stopped ..

    Someome will ALWAYS try to cheat, either with hacks or exploits or even built in cheat codes (not in MMO's hopefully) they will also use guides, hints and other spoiler sites to get an ADVANTAGE.

    The problem here is naturally the "gamers" that feels the need to prove themselvs wthout actually proving anything,,

    The need to win is strong, without it we would not even TRY to cheat during the olympics and  risk  jail and complete bans from the sport you love..

     

     

     Ofcourse people will always try to find ways to hack.

    But in case of DEFIANCE, TRION has made it EXTREMELY easy for them! It's just basically an open invite for hacking!

    They don't even need to hack the client files, because everything is just loaded in plain memory. So they can just adjust the values realtime in memory! Even, if there were client file integrity checks in place, they can bypass those completely.

    Critical stuff like damage, speed, shield, powers, etc should be handled server side with checks in place. At least hackers won't be able to get around that anymore. Which is the critical part of the game.

    Hacks like aimbots, wall/terrain visibility hacks are harder to detect, but can still be countered by client integrity checks.

    It just shows TRION's engine they used for DEFIANCE is just utter crap and them being forced to put everything client side to make the game even work. And yet they still have trouble keeping the servers performing and stable. /shrug

    I have said it before. With the budget they had, they should just have licensed a decent engine, like Unreal Engine or Crytek.

    Fully optimised for Online FPS games, with build-in support for ALL platforms! Basic anti-cheat messures in place, so less worry about hacks, etc.

    Sure it would have cut in their initial profits, but at least they would have a decent, stable and good performing game with less bugs and issues, working chat system.

    Longterm it would have paid off for them.  Now it's slowly turning into a complete dissaster for them (at least for PC platform) and I just can't see how they can get out of it.

    The game is now live! First impressions are key! It will be too expensive and too much work to overhaul the entire game and move all this stuff from client to server.

    They would have to redesign the entire server infrastructure to cope with the extra processing load.

    It's just a shame! Moreso a HUGE dissapointment, as I had expected better from TRION.

    I mean.... after the whole hacking debacle with All Points Bulletin (twice even with the relaunch!). You would have thought it had raised RED flags to other developers to NOT make these same mistakes again!

    /shrug

    I have been playing since beta and not yet I have come across one of these so called hackers. I think the whole hacking thing is just yet anouther way to attempt to bring Trion down. If you say the sky is pink and you say it enough times people may start to belive you. After all its the internet and every thing is true on the internet. If hacking was soooooooo bad I dont I see every other player hacked??? Trust me I am a MMO vet I can spot hackers a mile away and yet to come across any in Defiance.

    image

  • IsturiIsturi Phoenix, AZPosts: 1,509Member
    Originally posted by Laross

    Even though I've seen a couple of cheater each of them reported and never seen again, the game is not based on a competitive model thus it really doesn't ruin the game to the degree it does to other TPS out there which are heavily reliant on pvp etc.  The worst case in pve is the cheater kills an arkfall faster for you, sure you feel that you got cheated by not actually killing the final boss spawn but honestly you are relieved sometimes cause some of them are bugged, some take way too long to complete when there aren't enough players etc.  In the case of PVP, which isn't the central focus the cheater quickly gets bored if he is one shotting players cause soon enough no one joins his que of pvp.  As for shadow wars the same applies and its big enough to avoid such cheaters and report as well.   I think the key aspect should be players are reporting these issues but to say cheating is ruining Defiance is over exaggerating when the world is quite large and the events are many and varying.  

    Either way it's a great game fun to play around in, play around with weapons etc, different builds and ego combinations and the missions are darn fun even with a random group of players.  I'm sure Trion is addressing the issue as best as possible but honestly when you think about it all the cheaters want is attention and watching them cheat on youtube, twitch tv only helps promote cheating, encourage them etc.  So stop watching them and soon they'll stop broadcaasting it/cheat.  

    I have never seen any cheater or hackers. People are trying very very hard to discredit trion to the nth degree and its not working. but you are soooo very right all they want is attention. Look at me I can cheat. Reminds me of little boys starving for attention of their peers. To bad these hackes dont realize we dont care.

    image

  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Isturi
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by thark
     

     Well, I sort of agree with you here..But only to some degree, since whatever they do there will always be ways to cheat anyway

    The hackers will NOT go away easily..and NOT easily stopped ..

    Someome will ALWAYS try to cheat, either with hacks or exploits or even built in cheat codes (not in MMO's hopefully) they will also use guides, hints and other spoiler sites to get an ADVANTAGE.

    The problem here is naturally the "gamers" that feels the need to prove themselvs wthout actually proving anything,,

    The need to win is strong, without it we would not even TRY to cheat during the olympics and  risk  jail and complete bans from the sport you love..

     

     

     Ofcourse people will always try to find ways to hack.

    But in case of DEFIANCE, TRION has made it EXTREMELY easy for them! It's just basically an open invite for hacking!

    They don't even need to hack the client files, because everything is just loaded in plain memory. So they can just adjust the values realtime in memory! Even, if there were client file integrity checks in place, they can bypass those completely.

    Critical stuff like damage, speed, shield, powers, etc should be handled server side with checks in place. At least hackers won't be able to get around that anymore. Which is the critical part of the game.

    Hacks like aimbots, wall/terrain visibility hacks are harder to detect, but can still be countered by client integrity checks.

    It just shows TRION's engine they used for DEFIANCE is just utter crap and them being forced to put everything client side to make the game even work. And yet they still have trouble keeping the servers performing and stable. /shrug

    I have said it before. With the budget they had, they should just have licensed a decent engine, like Unreal Engine or Crytek.

    Fully optimised for Online FPS games, with build-in support for ALL platforms! Basic anti-cheat messures in place, so less worry about hacks, etc.

    Sure it would have cut in their initial profits, but at least they would have a decent, stable and good performing game with less bugs and issues, working chat system.

    Longterm it would have paid off for them.  Now it's slowly turning into a complete dissaster for them (at least for PC platform) and I just can't see how they can get out of it.

    The game is now live! First impressions are key! It will be too expensive and too much work to overhaul the entire game and move all this stuff from client to server.

    They would have to redesign the entire server infrastructure to cope with the extra processing load.

    It's just a shame! Moreso a HUGE dissapointment, as I had expected better from TRION.

    I mean.... after the whole hacking debacle with All Points Bulletin (twice even with the relaunch!). You would have thought it had raised RED flags to other developers to NOT make these same mistakes again!

    /shrug

    I have been playing since beta and not yet I have come across one of these so called hackers. I think the whole hacking thing is just yet anouther way to attempt to bring Trion down. If you say the sky is pink and you say it enough times people may start to belive you. After all its the internet and every thing is true on the internet. If hacking was soooooooo bad I dont I see every other player hacked??? Trust me I am a MMO vet I can spot hackers a mile away and yet to come across any in Defiance.

     If hacking wasn't an issue, then Twitch tv wasn't working so hard removing videos and blocking accounts. Videos showing off how ridiculously easy it is to hack DEFIANCE.

    If hacking wasn't an issue, then TRION wouldn't be acting like the gestappo on the forums and delete threads about it left and right!

    I am suprised the current thread is still up and running and not deleted yet, seeing how quick they were with all the other threads. I guess it's because it doesn't contain the word hack in the thread title and hasn't raised a flag yet. /shrug

    No one is trying to discredit TRION. They already have done a marvelous jobs at that themselves, with the crappy state they released the game in! With no functional chat system, items dissapearing from inventory, skills resetting back to 1 when reaching max level in them, servers crashing, 9 hour downtimes with rollbacks and so on.

    So really.... currently TRION doesn't need us at all to discredit themselves.

  • IsturiIsturi Phoenix, AZPosts: 1,509Member
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by Isturi
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by thark
     

     Well, I sort of agree with you here..But only to some degree, since whatever they do there will always be ways to cheat anyway

    The hackers will NOT go away easily..and NOT easily stopped ..

    Someome will ALWAYS try to cheat, either with hacks or exploits or even built in cheat codes (not in MMO's hopefully) they will also use guides, hints and other spoiler sites to get an ADVANTAGE.

    The problem here is naturally the "gamers" that feels the need to prove themselvs wthout actually proving anything,,

    The need to win is strong, without it we would not even TRY to cheat during the olympics and  risk  jail and complete bans from the sport you love..

     

     

     Ofcourse people will always try to find ways to hack.

    But in case of DEFIANCE, TRION has made it EXTREMELY easy for them! It's just basically an open invite for hacking!

    They don't even need to hack the client files, because everything is just loaded in plain memory. So they can just adjust the values realtime in memory! Even, if there were client file integrity checks in place, they can bypass those completely.

    Critical stuff like damage, speed, shield, powers, etc should be handled server side with checks in place. At least hackers won't be able to get around that anymore. Which is the critical part of the game.

    Hacks like aimbots, wall/terrain visibility hacks are harder to detect, but can still be countered by client integrity checks.

    It just shows TRION's engine they used for DEFIANCE is just utter crap and them being forced to put everything client side to make the game even work. And yet they still have trouble keeping the servers performing and stable. /shrug

    I have said it before. With the budget they had, they should just have licensed a decent engine, like Unreal Engine or Crytek.

    Fully optimised for Online FPS games, with build-in support for ALL platforms! Basic anti-cheat messures in place, so less worry about hacks, etc.

    Sure it would have cut in their initial profits, but at least they would have a decent, stable and good performing game with less bugs and issues, working chat system.

    Longterm it would have paid off for them.  Now it's slowly turning into a complete dissaster for them (at least for PC platform) and I just can't see how they can get out of it.

    The game is now live! First impressions are key! It will be too expensive and too much work to overhaul the entire game and move all this stuff from client to server.

    They would have to redesign the entire server infrastructure to cope with the extra processing load.

    It's just a shame! Moreso a HUGE dissapointment, as I had expected better from TRION.

    I mean.... after the whole hacking debacle with All Points Bulletin (twice even with the relaunch!). You would have thought it had raised RED flags to other developers to NOT make these same mistakes again!

    /shrug

    I have been playing since beta and not yet I have come across one of these so called hackers. I think the whole hacking thing is just yet anouther way to attempt to bring Trion down. If you say the sky is pink and you say it enough times people may start to belive you. After all its the internet and every thing is true on the internet. If hacking was soooooooo bad I dont I see every other player hacked??? Trust me I am a MMO vet I can spot hackers a mile away and yet to come across any in Defiance.

     If hacking wasn't an issue, then Twitch tv wasn't working so hard removing videos and blocking accounts. Videos showing off how ridiculously easy it is to hack DEFIANCE.

    If hacking wasn't an issue, then TRION wouldn't be acting like the gestappo on the forums and delete threads about it left and right!

    I am suprised the current thread is still up and running and not deleted yet, seeing how quick they were with all the other threads. I guess it's because it doesn't contain the word hack in the thread title and hasn't raised a flag yet. /shrug

    Good grief. Chuck. (Sigh)

    image

  • fallenlordsfallenlords NottinghamPosts: 680Member
    Originally posted by Whitebeards

    Don't know what levels you are talking about but sorry you can play white knight till end of times but Trion screwed up this one by keeping weapon damage client side. We don't live in some idle world where people don't exploit and cheat. That is why devs need to do their part.

    I guess you also gave SOE a free pass when large number of accounts and credit card info were stolen fromr them 2 years ago? because obviously they had no responsbility to strengthen security from their own side.

    You assume that only because Trion acted like a complete rookie in designing the game that means people are not taking into account action of cheaters.

    Both are responsible....you are the only one giving free pass to Trion here.

    Account security and credit card fraud are a little different to hacking a game.   Of course a developer has a responsibility to the customer to keep their personal data safe and secure, as does any industry.

     

    But we are talking about hacking a game.  Which doesn't even come into the heads of 99% of gamers.  You are talking about a minority that are exploiting the system in their favor.  A minority, most of the gamers are not cheating.   To most gamers it would not even come into their head to cheat.  So please don't demonize the majority for the actions or a small number of people.  Also don't blame the developer because somebody makes a conscious decision to cheat or reverse engineer their product.  We are talking about a product that has been released for entertainment purposes here, not on-line banking.
  • Four0SixFour0Six Missoula, MTPosts: 1,181Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by aleos
    I Think its partially because removing episodes from the game to coincide with the show was a really really stupid idea and whoever though of it should feel bad.

    This has been my biggest concern. I admit I havent followed it much. But I muse on the wonderings about how long beofre each TV episode = a DLC pack.

     

  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fallenlords
    Originally posted by Whitebeards

    Don't know what levels you are talking about but sorry you can play white knight till end of times but Trion screwed up this one by keeping weapon damage client side. We don't live in some idle world where people don't exploit and cheat. That is why devs need to do their part.

    I guess you also gave SOE a free pass when large number of accounts and credit card info were stolen fromr them 2 years ago? because obviously they had no responsbility to strengthen security from their own side.

    You assume that only because Trion acted like a complete rookie in designing the game that means people are not taking into account action of cheaters.

    Both are responsible....you are the only one giving free pass to Trion here.

    Account security and credit card fraud are a little different to hacking a game.   Of course a developer has a responsibility to the customer to keep their personal data safe and secure, as does any industry.

     

    But we are talking about hacking a game.  Which doesn't even come into the heads of 99% of gamers.  You are talking about a minority that are exploiting the system in their favor.  A minority, most of the gamers are not cheating.   To most gamers it would not even come into their head to cheat.  So please don't demonize the majority for the actions or a small number of people.  Also don't blame the developer because somebody makes a conscious decision to cheat or reverse engineer their product.  We are talking about a product that has been released for entertainment purposes here, not on-line banking.

     Yeah... go tell that to the people that played All Points Bulletin and All Points Bulletin: Reloaded  and how hacking was such a minority it had no impact on the game. /Facepalm

    Here another one to chew on: http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?49625-Hackers-ruining-the-game

    or this one: http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?49766-Ok-What-Gives...-Defiance-Hacked

    We'll see how long it takes till this one gets deleted too and wiped under the rug.

    You can keep sticking your head in the sand and pretend hacking is a non-issue.

    If this just continues it will be a matter of time until you run into them to and have them one shotting crystals and bosses in Major Arkfall events and have the entire events ended, before you can even pull the trigger.

    Or join a CO-OP and have a hacker blast through the entire map in minutes and finish it before you know it.

    Or join a PVP match and being one shotted left and right until you get fed up and leave the match.

    EDIT:

    Here another nice so called fix TRION did: http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?49458-Contribution-hotfix-is-destoying-teamwork

     

  • WhitebeardsWhitebeards TokyoPosts: 778Member
    Originally posted by fallenlords
    Originally posted by Whitebeards

    Don't know what levels you are talking about but sorry you can play white knight till end of times but Trion screwed up this one by keeping weapon damage client side. We don't live in some idle world where people don't exploit and cheat. That is why devs need to do their part.

    I guess you also gave SOE a free pass when large number of accounts and credit card info were stolen fromr them 2 years ago? because obviously they had no responsbility to strengthen security from their own side.

    You assume that only because Trion acted like a complete rookie in designing the game that means people are not taking into account action of cheaters.

    Both are responsible....you are the only one giving free pass to Trion here.

    Account security and credit card fraud are a little different to hacking a game.   Of course a developer has a responsibility to the customer to keep their personal data safe and secure, as does any industry.

     

    But we are talking about hacking a game.  Which doesn't even come into the heads of 99% of gamers.  You are talking about a minority that are exploiting the system in their favor.  A minority, most of the gamers are not cheating.   To most gamers it would not even come into their head to cheat.  So please don't demonize the majority for the actions or a small number of people.  Also don't blame the developer because somebody makes a conscious decision to cheat or reverse engineer their product.  We are talking about a product that has been released for entertainment purposes here, not on-line banking.

    They say 99% of statistics are made up on the go just like you did. And no i am going to blame Trion as much as i blame hackers and cheaters. They didn't do their part and now people are taking advantage of that. 

    I mentioned SOE to just give an example to show how people will exploit any  backdoor in the system regardless whether it is banking system or an online game. I wonder what dream land you are living but in real wsorld you can not just take such a risk by doing a shoddy job and hope players will be responsible and mature about not exploiting the loopholes.

    Looks like more and more people are realising this big screw up on Trion's side..

    http://www.reddit.com/r/Defiance/comments/1d0smu/weapon_damage_and_other_things_are_client_side_in/

     

  • fallenlordsfallenlords NottinghamPosts: 680Member
    Originally posted by JeroKane

     Yeah... go tell that to the people that played All Points Bulletin and All Points Bulletin: Reloaded  and how hacking was such a minority it had no impact on the game. /Facepalm

    Here another one to chew on: http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?49625-Hackers-ruining-the-game

    or this one: http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?49766-Ok-What-Gives...-Defiance-Hacked

    We'll see how long it takes till this one gets deleted too and wiped under the rug.

    You can keep sticking your head in the sand and pretend hacking is a non-issue.

    If this just continues it will be a matter of time until you run into them to and have them one shotting crystals and bosses in Major Arkfall events and have the entire events ended, before you can even pull the trigger.

    Or join a CO-OP and have a hacker blast through the entire map in minutes and finish it before you know it.

    Or join a PVP match and being one shotted left and right until you get fed up and leave the match.

    EDIT:

    Here another nice so called fix TRION did: http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?49458-Contribution-hotfix-is-destoying-teamwork

     

    Not having an impact on the Xbox, biggest hack I have seen there is changes to the leader boards on the mini-games.   Unfortunately you have opted for a platform where hacking is prevalent.   Trion have released the game on three multiple platforms that had to impact on the design decisions.  Whether that is the reasons for client based info I don't know.  We have only had a few patches so far,  you need to give them chance to address the issues. 

     

    As for the contribution hotfix, don't see an issue with it.  Before you got credit for a kill a friend made, now you have to make the kill to get the credit.  It may make certain things a little more awkward like contracts done in groups, but overall it trying to make sure people make a contribution and don't sit back doing nothing.  Then let their team do the work.

  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fallenlords
     

     

    As for the contribution hotfix, don't see an issue with it.  Before you got credit for a kill a friend made, now you have to make the kill to get the credit.  It may make certain things a little more awkward like contracts done in groups, but overall it trying to make sure people make a contribution and don't sit back doing nothing.  Then let their team do the work.

     The problem with this Dev team is that they just do sweeping changes, nerfs and whatnot across the board... like swinging a huge hammer in panic. Not thinking things through how it might impact the game.

    This last change is another prime example of how not to fix something. It becomes a bit tiresome.

    They could have done it with Openworld events, like Arkfalls. That's fine.

    But now it heavily impacts grouping and pretty much destroys the incentive to group.

    What about a person who dedicates him/herself as healer of the group and equips a healing gun trying to keep the group alive?  Or group members taking on adds and keep them away from the group's objective?   Sorry... no contribution for you with this "FIX" ! /facepalm

    Groups can police themselves and kick AFK'ers from their groups. What TRION did now, is going AGAIN way overboard! /shrug

    You know.... plenty of other MMO's are doing this properly for years now.   /sigh

  • MargulisMargulis Glendale, AZPosts: 1,614Member
    Originally posted by fallenlords
    Originally posted by Whitebeards

    Don't know what levels you are talking about but sorry you can play white knight till end of times but Trion screwed up this one by keeping weapon damage client side. We don't live in some idle world where people don't exploit and cheat. That is why devs need to do their part.

    I guess you also gave SOE a free pass when large number of accounts and credit card info were stolen fromr them 2 years ago? because obviously they had no responsbility to strengthen security from their own side.

    You assume that only because Trion acted like a complete rookie in designing the game that means people are not taking into account action of cheaters.

    Both are responsible....you are the only one giving free pass to Trion here.

    Account security and credit card fraud are a little different to hacking a game.   Of course a developer has a responsibility to the customer to keep their personal data safe and secure, as does any industry.

     

    But we are talking about hacking a game.  Which doesn't even come into the heads of 99% of gamers.  You are talking about a minority that are exploiting the system in their favor.  A minority, most of the gamers are not cheating.   To most gamers it would not even come into their head to cheat.  So please don't demonize the majority for the actions or a small number of people.  Also don't blame the developer because somebody makes a conscious decision to cheat or reverse engineer their product.  We are talking about a product that has been released for entertainment purposes here, not on-line banking.

    Putting all the data client side was a huge mistake and is the developers fault - they basically were asking for it with that dumb decision.  Other thing - there is no playing defiance right now without experiencing it, everyone is talking about it.  Pretty much any pvp match, and 100% shadow war match, is going to have people 1 shotting you with a shotgun from across the screen.  It's ridiculous.  And watching an arkfall final boss get 1 shotted, that's a sight too.

  • fallenlordsfallenlords NottinghamPosts: 680Member
    Originally posted by Whitebeards

    They say 99% of statistics are made up on the go just like you did. And no i am going to blame Trion as much as i blame hackers and cheaters. They didn't do their part and now people are taking advantage of that. 

    I mentioned SOE to just give an example to show how people will exploit any  backdoor in the system regardless whether it is banking system or an online game. I wonder what dream land you are living but in real wsorld you can not just take such a risk by doing a shoddy job and hope players will be responsible and mature about not exploiting the loopholes.

    Looks like more and more people are realising this big screw up on Trion's side..

    http://www.reddit.com/r/Defiance/comments/1d0smu/weapon_damage_and_other_things_are_client_side_in/

     

    So what are you saying 99% is the wrong figure to use. Well what percentage of gamers are hackers in your eyes then? 

     

    We don't know the design decision that had to made to facilitate a three platform release.   I don't mind a game company leaving things open within a game for unscrupulous people to exploit.  Because I am not one of those unscrupulous people.   I expect them to focus on what matters, which is things like account security and protecting my individual data.   Even if I know about a hack or glitch I am not going to use it and I frown on the people that do. 

     

    It doesn't matter how difficult or easy you make it people will hack a game.  TSW has been out for about a year, quick internet search I can find a program that I can download which will give me unlimited health, no reload etc.   For most on-line games I can find a tool, an exploit or a hack if I go looking and  I am that way inclined. 

     

    As far as understand a similar event took place in Rift, Trion didn't do anything initially.  It went on for a while and then boom, the banhammer was dropped and the equilibrium restored.   If I was Trion I would make it easy for people to cheat, then I would monitor the people that got reported and then I would ban them when they least expect it.  

     

     
  • MargulisMargulis Glendale, AZPosts: 1,614Member
    Originally posted by fallenlords
    Originally posted by JeroKane

     Yeah... go tell that to the people that played All Points Bulletin and All Points Bulletin: Reloaded  and how hacking was such a minority it had no impact on the game. /Facepalm

    Here another one to chew on: http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?49625-Hackers-ruining-the-game

    or this one: http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?49766-Ok-What-Gives...-Defiance-Hacked

    We'll see how long it takes till this one gets deleted too and wiped under the rug.

    You can keep sticking your head in the sand and pretend hacking is a non-issue.

    If this just continues it will be a matter of time until you run into them to and have them one shotting crystals and bosses in Major Arkfall events and have the entire events ended, before you can even pull the trigger.

    Or join a CO-OP and have a hacker blast through the entire map in minutes and finish it before you know it.

    Or join a PVP match and being one shotted left and right until you get fed up and leave the match.

    EDIT:

    Here another nice so called fix TRION did: http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?49458-Contribution-hotfix-is-destoying-teamwork

     

    Not having an impact on the Xbox, biggest hack I have seen there is changes to the leader boards on the mini-games.   Unfortunately you have opted for a platform where hacking is prevalent.   Trion have released the game on three multiple platforms that had to impact on the design decisions.  Whether that is the reasons for client based info I don't know.  We have only had a few patches so far,  you need to give them chance to address the issues. 

     

    As for the contribution hotfix, don't see an issue with it.  Before you got credit for a kill a friend made, now you have to make the kill to get the credit.  It may make certain things a little more awkward like contracts done in groups, but overall it trying to make sure people make a contribution and don't sit back doing nothing.  Then let their team do the work.

    Yeah that sure was an AWESOME idea wasn't it?  What do you think was one of the biggest things people were excited about this year with RIFT?  Making it so that if you contributed to a kill, you got credit - you didn't have to land the final shot and there wasn't "tagging" anymore.  It just increases the tedium, there isn't one positive thing about it.

     

    And you pointed out another problem too, there have only been a few patches so far.  This game has been out coming on a month and is riddled with so many issues it's crazy there haven't been more hotfixes and patches.  Look at RIFT's patch notes - same company and they pump them out like crazy.  And at a game launch is when it should be happening the most frequently of any time. 

  • fallenlordsfallenlords NottinghamPosts: 680Member
    Originally posted by JeroKane

     The problem with this Dev team is that they just do sweeping changes, nerfs and whatnot across the board... like swinging a huge hammer in panic. Not thinking things through how it might impact the game.

    Well that is totally unusual for an MMO...not.  How long have you been playing MMO's?  Standard response to my mind is do sweeping changed with little to no thought.  Nature of the beast.  You change anything in an MMO and you will have somebody complaining.  They preferred it the way it was ... tough the game has changed and moved forward, learn to live with it.   It's early days with Defiance there are going to be lots of changes and tweaks, some people will like other people won't.   I don't think we need a post-mortem every time a single aspect of the game changes.   You want to contribute in a group, get the kill.

     

  • fallenlordsfallenlords NottinghamPosts: 680Member
    Originally posted by Margulis

    Putting all the data client side was a huge mistake and is the developers fault - they basically were asking for it with that dumb decision.  Other thing - there is no playing defiance right now without experiencing it, everyone is talking about it.  Pretty much any pvp match, and 100% shadow war match, is going to have people 1 shotting you with a shotgun from across the screen.  It's ridiculous.  And watching an arkfall final boss get 1 shotted, that's a sight too.

    They were asking for people to cheat? What it was an open invitation because everything was client side.  Listen to yourself, did it make you cheat?   Hands up who decided to cheat because they found out everything was client side in Defiance and it was easy to hack?

  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fallenlords
    Originally posted by JeroKane

     The problem with this Dev team is that they just do sweeping changes, nerfs and whatnot across the board... like swinging a huge hammer in panic. Not thinking things through how it might impact the game.

    Well that is totally unusual for an MMO...not.  How long have you been playing MMO's?  Standard response to my mind is do sweeping changed with little to no thought.  Nature of the beast.  You change anything in an MMO and you will have somebody complaining.  They preferred it the way it was ... tough the game has changed and moved forward, learn to live with it.   It's early days with Defiance there are going to be lots of changes and tweaks, some people will like other people won't.   I don't think we need a post-mortem every time a single aspect of the game changes.   You want to contribute in a group, get the kill.

     

     This change wasn't even needed. It wasn't some HOT issue that needed immediate fixing! There are far more pressing issues that actually do need fixing!

    - Skills resetting from max back to level 1.

    - Items dissapearing from inventory!

    - Chat system that is sitll garbage and non-functional.

    - Pursuits that keep resetting!

    Those are critical issues that have been going on since launch and DO need fixing!

    But no no.... removing key drops from mini events and so destroying the incentive of doing them was far more important! As it was obviously hurting their lockbox sales in the Cash Shop!

    But no no.... applying a contribution fix, that destroys grouping was far more important!

    They are litterly on a Multiplayer destroying rampage! Like they DO NOT want people to group AT ALL! /shrug

  • fallenlordsfallenlords NottinghamPosts: 680Member
    Originally posted by JeroKane

     This change wasn't even needed. It wasn't some HOT issue that needed immediate fixing! There are far more pressing issues that actually do need fixing!

    - Skills resetting from max back to level 1.

    - Items dissapearing from inventory!

    - Chat system that is sitll garbage and non-functional.

    - Pursuits that keep resetting!

    Those are critical issues that have been going on since launch and DO need fixing!

    But no no.... removing key drops from mini events and so destroying the incentive of doing them was far more important! As it was obviously hurting their lockbox sales in the Cash Shop!

    But no no.... applying a contribution fix, that destroys grouping was far more important!

    They are litterly on a Multiplayer destroying rampage! Like they DO NOT want people to group AT ALL! /shrug

    If I was you I wouldn't play, because the way you are going your will burst a blood vessel or something. 

     

    In context, game hasn't been out a month yet. Consoles have a much more restrictive environment when it comes to patch releases, so that will slow down things on the PC.   If you are still complaining about the same issues in three months then I think you have a point.  It's too early at the moment to form a judgment.  Not knowing the semantics of releasing on three platforms I personally inclined to cut them a lot of slack.  I mean look at Bethesda and Skyrim on the PS3, major screw up with the add-ons that took an eternity to resolve.  One platform release I am less forgiving/not forgiving at all.  But three simultaneous platforms, patches having to be certified prior to release.  There is a lot more going on here.
  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fallenlords
    Originally posted by JeroKane

     This change wasn't even needed. It wasn't some HOT issue that needed immediate fixing! There are far more pressing issues that actually do need fixing!

    - Skills resetting from max back to level 1.

    - Items dissapearing from inventory!

    - Chat system that is sitll garbage and non-functional.

    - Pursuits that keep resetting!

    Those are critical issues that have been going on since launch and DO need fixing!

    But no no.... removing key drops from mini events and so destroying the incentive of doing them was far more important! As it was obviously hurting their lockbox sales in the Cash Shop!

    But no no.... applying a contribution fix, that destroys grouping was far more important!

    They are litterly on a Multiplayer destroying rampage! Like they DO NOT want people to group AT ALL! /shrug

    If I was you I wouldn't play, because the way you are going your will burst a blood vessel or something. 

     

    In context, game hasn't been out a month yet. Consoles have a much more restrictive environment when it comes to patch releases, so that will slow down things on the PC.   If you are still complaining about the same issues in three months then I think you have a point.  It's too early at the moment to form a judgment.  Not knowing the semantics of releasing on three platforms I personally inclined to cut them a lot of slack.  I mean look at Bethesda and Skyrim on the PS3, major screw up with the add-ons that took an eternity to resolve.  One platform release I am less forgiving/not forgiving at all.  But three simultaneous platforms, patches having to be certified prior to release.  There is a lot more going on here.

     Here is the official release specs of the Helios Cheat Engine, released for DEFIANCE:

    Features

    • Accuracy :
      • NoRecoil (Off, On)
      • NoSpread (Off, On)
      • Uberdamage (Configurable Damage + CritMult)
    • Radar :
      • Compatible with PVE and PVP
      • 3D Radar (Off, On) (+ Configurable for Players, Vehicles, Grenades, Flags, etc.)
      • 2DRadar (Off, On) (+ Configurable radar scale)
      • Cross (Off, Cross, Dot, Box, Bounding Box)
      • Info Styles (Distance, Playername, Weaponname, Health, Armour)
      • Healthbars (Off, On)
    • Profile System :
      • Profiles can be saved/loaded
    • Graphical User Interface (GUI) :
      • Configuration Window with tab menus
    • Help :
      • Help files (FAQs, Explanations, Examples)

     

    First reports for hacking on XBOX360 are starting to drip in too.

    So you see Fallenlords, you won't be safe on the XBOX either. Just a matter of time.

    Have a nice day.

  • fallenlordsfallenlords NottinghamPosts: 680Member
    Originally posted by JeroKane

    First reports for hacking on XBOX360 are starting to drip in too.

    So you see Fallenlords, you won't be safe on the XBOX either. Just a matter of time.

    Have a nice day.

    If I see a hacker I will report them and avoid/ignore them.  It's quite a simple concept and works for most games. It's the proverbial turning your back on them in gaming turns.   Doesn't bother me if I am in a PVP match or a Team Deathmatch and doing really well.  If I see somebody cheat or even suspect somebody is cheating I am out of there - do something else, play another part of the game, solo some content.  It's not like you don't have options. 

  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by fallenlords
     

     

    As for the contribution hotfix, don't see an issue with it.  Before you got credit for a kill a friend made, now you have to make the kill to get the credit.  It may make certain things a little more awkward like contracts done in groups, but overall it trying to make sure people make a contribution and don't sit back doing nothing.  Then let their team do the work.

     The problem with this Dev team is that they just do sweeping changes, nerfs and whatnot across the board... like swinging a huge hammer in panic. Not thinking things through how it might impact the game.

    This last change is another prime example of how not to fix something. It becomes a bit tiresome.

    They could have done it with Openworld events, like Arkfalls. That's fine.

    But now it heavily impacts grouping and pretty much destroys the incentive to group.

    What about a person who dedicates him/herself as healer of the group and equips a healing gun trying to keep the group alive?  Or group members taking on adds and keep them away from the group's objective?   Sorry... no contribution for you with this "FIX" ! /facepalm

    Groups can police themselves and kick AFK'ers from their groups. What TRION did now, is going AGAIN way overboard! /shrug

    You know.... plenty of other MMO's are doing this properly for years now.   /sigh

    MMO dev teams seem to think this is the proper way of handling things now, with broad changes and then scrambling to fix them or ignoring them entirely, or the banhammer. It's the new way of things  because people continue to play and spend money like robots.

    It's why I left GW2 those people over there have no clue what testing really is 

    "Oh did someone complain again in the forums about the weakest class in the game?! Let's have another nerf on something essential we've only done that in every patch since launch for the past 6 months now, what could it hurt!"

    Healers have always been on the backburner for every game it's like they somehow think the only players in the world are dps hogs who run around blowing everything to bits all the time and do nothing else.

  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fallenlords
    Originally posted by JeroKane

    First reports for hacking on XBOX360 are starting to drip in too.

    So you see Fallenlords, you won't be safe on the XBOX either. Just a matter of time.

    Have a nice day.

    If I see a hacker I will report them and avoid/ignore them.  It's quite a simple concept and works for most games. It's the proverbial turning your back on them in gaming turns.   Doesn't bother me if I am in a PVP match or a Team Deathmatch and doing really well.  If I see somebody cheat or even suspect somebody is cheating I am out of there - do something else, play another part of the game, solo some content.  It's not like you don't have options. 

     It's not bothering you? ......YET!

    It's not limited to PVP at all. They do it in the open gameworld as well, one shotting everything up to bosses!

    They are ruining Arkfall events, by one shotting the crystals and then one shotting the end boss in the Major Arkfall.

  • WhitebeardsWhitebeards TokyoPosts: 778Member
    Originally posted by fallenlords
    Originally posted by Whitebeards

    They say 99% of statistics are made up on the go just like you did. And no i am going to blame Trion as much as i blame hackers and cheaters. They didn't do their part and now people are taking advantage of that. 

    I mentioned SOE to just give an example to show how people will exploit any  backdoor in the system regardless whether it is banking system or an online game. I wonder what dream land you are living but in real wsorld you can not just take such a risk by doing a shoddy job and hope players will be responsible and mature about not exploiting the loopholes.

    Looks like more and more people are realising this big screw up on Trion's side..

    http://www.reddit.com/r/Defiance/comments/1d0smu/weapon_damage_and_other_things_are_client_side_in/

     

    So what are you saying 99% is the wrong figure to use. Well what percentage of gamers are hackers in your eyes then? 

     

    We don't know the design decision that had to made to facilitate a three platform release.   I don't mind a game company leaving things open within a game for unscrupulous people to exploit.  Because I am not one of those unscrupulous people.   I expect them to focus on what matters, which is things like account security and protecting my individual data.   Even if I know about a hack or glitch I am not going to use it and I frown on the people that do. 

     

    It doesn't matter how difficult or easy you make it people will hack a game.  TSW has been out for about a year, quick internet search I can find a program that I can download which will give me unlimited health, no reload etc.   For most on-line games I can find a tool, an exploit or a hack if I go looking and  I am that way inclined. 

     

    As far as understand a similar event took place in Rift, Trion didn't do anything initially.  It went on for a while and then boom, the banhammer was dropped and the equilibrium restored.   If I was Trion I would make it easy for people to cheat, then I would monitor the people that got reported and then I would ban them when they least expect it.  

     

     

    Yes that is what i am saying..stop pulling made up numbers out of you know where. I don't know what percentage neither do you. All i know is that issue of hacking and cheating is coming up more and more everyday.  I have noticed it myself in arkfalls and pvp. Forums has a lot of  players complainign on daily basis and even psoting videos as a proof. The point is not what percentage is using the hacks but what to do to make it stop from spreading further.

    Weapon damage is client side and that is well known now. Some very popular cheat engines are easily available to download and use. If you think this problem won't get worse in future for PC players than you are in denial.

    I could care less what other games had cheating problems. I am interested in Defiance.

  • fallenlordsfallenlords NottinghamPosts: 680Member
    Originally posted by JeroKane

     It's not bothering you? ......YET!

    It's not limited to PVP at all. They do it in the open gameworld as well, one shotting everything up to bosses!

    They are ruining Arkfall events, by one shotting the crystals and then one shotting the end boss in the Major Arkfall.

    Won't bother me at all, Dead Island Riptide just arrived and Dragons Dogma Dark Arisen.   Plus trying to figure out if God Mode is worth a punt or not.  Then new Black Ops maps, Walking Dead Survival Instinct Herd Mode - just too much going on to worry about a few hackers.  Good thing about hackers is if they don't get banned then they normally get bored pretty quickly.

     

    Like I say Xbox, worse hack I have seen so far is somebody messing with the leaderboards on the mini-games.  Apart from that, seen no evidence of any hacking issues.  Perhaps you just attract the wrong type of people?

  • ThorkuneThorkune Eastern, KYPosts: 1,830Member Uncommon
    I recently picked up the game for xbox 360, and I feel the game is just as good as anything else out there right now. This is my first console mmo and I really like it.
  • WhitebeardsWhitebeards TokyoPosts: 778Member
    Originally posted by Thorkune
    I recently picked up the game for xbox 360, and I feel the game is just as good as anything else out there right now. This is my first console mmo and I really like it.

    Seeing the mess that PC version is i wish i had bought it for XBOX too.

This discussion has been closed.