I understand RvR. I understand somewhat, about CU, but the game designers haven't explained much at all about how their RvR will work...they don't even have a world map. I mention those games because they are "faction vs faction"(pre-created and pre-determined - set in stone games of race vs race or kingdom vs kingdom based games). The basic game play. Sounds like an advanced version of DAoC but with the ability to take and control land and build on it, gather resources and what not. But make no mistake, they will have safe areas(says so in their game documents) where people will be able to build and own shops - that makes it more like DAoC - it isn't open, it is "you can be this race" - and you "must fight for this faction" - and you can go here - but you cannot go here - type of game. Same as all the ones I listed above. The only difference is in CU it seems you can build things in contested areas for people to defend and attack.
Why is it important to have a game world without restrictions? I don't want to be put on a empty plane and get said that I have to find the fun on myself. I want to have some decisions to make. For example, what realm I want to play. And the decision has some consequences, I cannot play the races and classes of the other realms. Btw, having distinct races is a perfect way to recognize friend and foe. You don't have to mark them red or blue or green. Ok, the naming tag helps
While I love to play new games, no matter if they combine things which where already in other games or have some innovations in it, the thing that really hooks me with CU is
#1 that the development process is so visible for the community. It feels like we have influence on that game, being part of it even before we can activly playing it.
And #2 The realm pride thing. I don't know, maybe I wish the old days back, but I think this game can bring real socialization back into an mmo.
While the attempt of GW2, bringing people together with open quests was surely a kind thought, it didn't evolved as expected. People crowd together to hit a boss, but there is no interaction between them. I hope that this will be different in CU.
And I like to be a crafter to support the fray, this is also something which sounds exciting. And I honestly don't know where this has been happen similar to the concept in CU. I never played minecraft, but as far as I know, there is no other goal than digging holes and build something just for the fun of building.
MMO's played so far: UO,EQ,DAOC,EQ2,GW,ROM,WOW,WAR,AOC,LOTRO,RIFT,TSW,GW2,POE Looking forward to: Camelot Unchained, Star Citizen
SO been thinking of this for a while now. MJ has consistently said Camelot Unchained is a niche MMO being developed for a niche crowd. Now this is all fine and all but as we approach the end of the Kickstarter campaign we are seeing more complaining amongst its very vocal fanbase, bordering on obsessive fanboi'ism even. Time and time again any dectractor to the game is disparraged for questioning the authority of MJ or any design decision with "this is a Niche game with a niche playerbase". To which It finally dawned on me the other day, if this is a niche game, why did they try to fund at such a high level.
AAA MMOs are about 300 million. This is 2 million. Bit of a difference.
And most of the detractors are completely ignorant of the actual game. They've made a base assumption (which is fine, and makes sense, if you don't get hooked by the base idea why would you dig into the details?) so most of the fans spend their time informing the people who make these sweeping conclusions.
The amount of trolling traffic far out weighs that of the vocal fanbase. The CU community was very active on these forums until moderation became questionable and the trolls consistently roamed freely. Granted, some of the "fanbois" were equally as aggressive back to the attention whoring posters that visited. Most of us got tired of the crap that went on here and relocated.
Nonetheless, $5 million to develop a game that will would have 30k-70k+ subscribers is not a higher request margin. It's extremely low for the overhead during development.
The point the OP was making is that this game doesn't have 30-70K followers, *currently*, who are willing to fund it, so having such a high goal right away is silly. Crowdfunding isn't the same as getting real investors, and it should be treated as a way to get partial funding...and by partial I mean having realistic expectations about how big their initiail following will be.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
SO been thinking of this for a while now. MJ has consistently said Camelot Unchained is a niche MMO being developed for a niche crowd. Now this is all fine and all but as we approach the end of the Kickstarter campaign we are seeing more complaining amongst its very vocal fanbase, bordering on obsessive fanboi'ism even. Time and time again any dectractor to the game is disparraged for questioning the authority of MJ or any design decision with "this is a Niche game with a niche playerbase". To which It finally dawned on me the other day, if this is a niche game, why did they try to fund at such a high level.
AAA MMOs are about 300 million. This is 2 million. Bit of a difference.
And most of the detractors are completely ignorant of the actual game. They've made a base assumption (which is fine, and makes sense, if you don't get hooked by the base idea why would you dig into the details?) so most of the fans spend their time informing the people who make these sweeping conclusions.
First of all, there is no "actual game" yet. There's a current design map of some kind (I would hope) and a tiny bit of development with probably somewhere north of two full years of dev to come before release. You would be wise to understand that everything and anything can change between now and then, including the entire project failing outright.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Originally posted by ShakyMo Teala Some of those games you mention have rvr
But no one in their right mind could describe wow and rift as rvr games.
Why not? Horde vs Alliance - those are factions/realms and the players do fight for control of places like Wintergrasp and Tol Barad. They fight for them to control them to receive benefits in areas or in game in general. Sounds no different than what we see in DAoC - which is an RvR game. Tell me how they do not relate.
RVR is- clue here - ENTIRE REALM vs the other realms, 24/7 non stop allways available forever
WOW is 10 vs 10 for 20 minutes followed by 30 mins of sat in a city queueing
Wintergrasp and Tol Barad are battlegrounds in disguise, they're on bloody timers and have entry restrictions. Again you have to sit on your arse waiting for them to be up.
this is beacuse wow is a raiding game ran by former EQ raiders. Thats where the priority lies, PVP is meant to be something you play for a little while for fun while youre waiting for your raid to form.
SO been thinking of this for a while now. MJ has consistently said Camelot Unchained is a niche MMO being developed for a niche crowd. Now this is all fine and all but as we approach the end of the Kickstarter campaign we are seeing more complaining amongst its very vocal fanbase, bordering on obsessive fanboi'ism even. Time and time again any dectractor to the game is disparraged for questioning the authority of MJ or any design decision with "this is a Niche game with a niche playerbase". To which It finally dawned on me the other day, if this is a niche game, why did they try to fund at such a high level.
AAA MMOs are about 300 million. This is 2 million. Bit of a difference.
And most of the detractors are completely ignorant of the actual game. They've made a base assumption (which is fine, and makes sense, if you don't get hooked by the base idea why would you dig into the details?) so most of the fans spend their time informing the people who make these sweeping conclusions.
First of all, there is no "actual game" yet. There's a current design map of some kind (I would hope) and a tiny bit of development with probably somewhere north of two full years of dev to come before release. You would be wise to understand that everything and anything can change between now and then, including the entire project failing outright.
You totally ignored what I said and dropped in something entirely irrelavent. Of course the game may change from now until release.
The point I was making is, I've seen so many threads of "No PvE? Not backing." or "All RvR all the time? That's boring."
They make huge assumptions based on snippets of information and lose interest, when in reality, if they read about how the game is actually designed to be, it's nothing like their assumptions claim it is. The problem is, once these folks are turned off by snippets of misinformation, they will not dig for more information and realize their assumptions are inaccurate, and why would they? Can't blame them all that much. What we CAN blame them for (and what has been REALLY annoying) is when people make ignorant posts and tons of threads spouting their misinformation and generally complaining/publically announcing that they don't like the game, and calling other people fools for liking it.
It's fine to remain ignorant of a game that doesn't interest you, but don't stink up the forums announcing your ignorance to the world, and then don't complain about "fabois" when they try to correct you.
The Old Republic was around 300mil. Triple-A games constantly hit the 100mil mark nowadays. This is an extremely small budget for an MMO, or any game that is worked on by more than a few people for that matter.
Originally posted by Tayah Why do others care what people do with their money? I guess haters just gonna hate.
i'm still curious on peoples big opposition towards KS.. if a game goes up on KS funds and is great well great!.. if it funds and fails well obviously those who hate KS didn't pledge so why would they care? Just seems odd how many get all up and arms over KS.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
SO been thinking of this for a while now. MJ has consistently said Camelot Unchained is a niche MMO being developed for a niche crowd. Now this is all fine and all but as we approach the end of the Kickstarter campaign we are seeing more complaining amongst its very vocal fanbase, bordering on obsessive fanboi'ism even. Time and time again any dectractor to the game is disparraged for questioning the authority of MJ or any design decision with "this is a Niche game with a niche playerbase". To which It finally dawned on me the other day, if this is a niche game, why did they try to fund at such a high level.
AAA MMOs are about 300 million. This is 2 million. Bit of a difference.
And most of the detractors are completely ignorant of the actual game. They've made a base assumption (which is fine, and makes sense, if you don't get hooked by the base idea why would you dig into the details?) so most of the fans spend their time informing the people who make these sweeping conclusions.
First of all, there is no "actual game" yet. There's a current design map of some kind (I would hope) and a tiny bit of development with probably somewhere north of two full years of dev to come before release. You would be wise to understand that everything and anything can change between now and then, including the entire project failing outright.
You totally ignored what I said and dropped in something entirely irrelavent. Of course the game may change from now until release.
The point I was making is, I've seen so many threads of "No PvE? Not backing." or "All RvR all the time? That's boring."
They make huge assumptions based on snippets of information and lose interest, when in reality, if they read about how the game is actually designed to be, it's nothing like their assumptions claim it is. The problem is, once these folks are turned off by snippets of misinformation, they will not dig for more information and realize their assumptions are inaccurate, and why would they? Can't blame them all that much. What we CAN blame them for (and what has been REALLY annoying) is when people make ignorant posts and tons of threads spouting their misinformation and generally complaining/publically announcing that they don't like the game, and calling other people fools for liking it.
It's fine to remain ignorant of a game that doesn't interest you, but don't stink up the forums announcing your ignorance to the world, and then don't complain about "fabois" when they try to correct you.
It is CSE's job to get the information out. They have done a horrible job. The reason that people make these ignorant posts as you claim them to be is because CSE is failing at their job of selling the game. There is no way that this game will get funded. Plain and simple. They want 2 million dollars and have nothing to show for it. There reference information isn't even organized. Don't blame the people, blame CSE. I am sorry that you won't get your game.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
SO been thinking of this for a while now. MJ has consistently said Camelot Unchained is a niche MMO being developed for a niche crowd. Now this is all fine and all but as we approach the end of the Kickstarter campaign we are seeing more complaining amongst its very vocal fanbase, bordering on obsessive fanboi'ism even. Time and time again any dectractor to the game is disparraged for questioning the authority of MJ or any design decision with "this is a Niche game with a niche playerbase". To which It finally dawned on me the other day, if this is a niche game, why did they try to fund at such a high level.
AAA MMOs are about 300 million. This is 2 million. Bit of a difference.
And most of the detractors are completely ignorant of the actual game. They've made a base assumption (which is fine, and makes sense, if you don't get hooked by the base idea why would you dig into the details?) so most of the fans spend their time informing the people who make these sweeping conclusions.
First of all, there is no "actual game" yet. There's a current design map of some kind (I would hope) and a tiny bit of development with probably somewhere north of two full years of dev to come before release. You would be wise to understand that everything and anything can change between now and then, including the entire project failing outright.
You totally ignored what I said and dropped in something entirely irrelavent. Of course the game may change from now until release.
The point I was making is, I've seen so many threads of "No PvE? Not backing." or "All RvR all the time? That's boring."
They make huge assumptions based on snippets of information and lose interest, when in reality, if they read about how the game is actually designed to be, it's nothing like their assumptions claim it is. The problem is, once these folks are turned off by snippets of misinformation, they will not dig for more information and realize their assumptions are inaccurate, and why would they? Can't blame them all that much. What we CAN blame them for (and what has been REALLY annoying) is when people make ignorant posts and tons of threads spouting their misinformation and generally complaining/publically announcing that they don't like the game, and calling other people fools for liking it.
It's fine to remain ignorant of a game that doesn't interest you, but don't stink up the forums announcing your ignorance to the world, and then don't complain about "fabois" when they try to correct you.
It is CSE's job to get the information out. They have done a horrible job.
You can't be serious.
There have been 27+ updates to their Kickstarter with new information in all of it. In each update there is long text, a video, AND a bullet point summary of what is covered in the updated. There are many compiled FAQs and roundups of information posted on the Kickstarter and in other places.
CU is overflowing with information and art and videos and interviews. It takes absolutely no effort at all to find it.
It's only niche for the funding. On release day there will be the usual zerg of players because quite frankly people are desparate for anything new.
and everquest next, that's a triple-A budget game
You wont get a zerg of players. Most people don't now, and won't later know what CU even is. It will likely fall into the same trap as Darkfall and Mortal Online. PvP MMO's only get small audiences. Then again, if less than 50,000 players is what they are going for, then perhaps all is well.
Originally posted by TayahWhy do others care what people do with their money? I guess haters just gonna hate.
i'm still curious on peoples big opposition towards KS.. if a game goes up on KS funds and is great well great!.. if it funds and fails well obviously those who hate KS didn't pledge so why would they care? Just seems odd how many get all up and arms over KS.
/agree
If the fools would just realize that KS funded MMOs will put pressure on the other companies to make better games this would all be for the better. But instead, like most people, they see something new, fear it like a bunch of neanderthals then try to kill it and eat it.
If anything, what I see is people that actually can fund games without Kickstarter are using sucker's money to reduce their risk. Like most people, all you have to do is feed them a glimmer of hope and they're ready to empty their wallets and praise the next Messiah. Fortunately for the shysters, money matters less to people than it ever has before.
The next step to Kickstarter won't show the world that regular people can guide the MMO industry away from the big bad corporations. That's just silly. Even Mark Jacobs has said he's looking for a small/niche audience of 50k people or so. No, the next step in the Kickstarter bonanza is extreme criticism of the products that are produced and delivered. The next step involves watching the MMO community pulverize whatever MMO creations that are actually born of Kickstarter.
People already make games without the big publishers all the time without Kickstarter. Why would you think that Kickstarter would change anything?
Heck the average cost for a single Denny’s franchise is $1.18-$2.4 Mil. And I can tell you that they are far from AAA. I know they are not related, but $2 Mil. for a multinational operation is peanuts.
The amount of trolling traffic far out weighs that of the vocal fanbase. The CU community was very active on these forums until moderation became questionable and the trolls consistently roamed freely. Granted, some of the "fanbois" were equally as aggressive back to the attention whoring posters that visited. Most of us got tired of the crap that went on here and relocated.
Nonetheless, $5 million to develop a game that will would have 30k-70k+ subscribers is not a higher request margin. It's extremely low for the overhead during development.
The point the OP was making is that this game doesn't have 30-70K followers, *currently*, who are willing to fund it, so having such a high goal right away is silly. Crowdfunding isn't the same as getting real investors, and it should be treated as a way to get partial funding...and by partial I mean having realistic expectations about how big their initiail following will be.
Thank you, this was the exact point I tried to make, granted I used a little hyperbole and wordsmithing to spicen it up which could be a mistake I suppose.
The point remains, CU crowd funding is entirely too high and at 2 mill, will never be reached. MJ should of kept it at 1 million tops because its marketed at a niche audience and to attempt to crowdfund it at 2 million is a joke and shows just out of touch Mark is in the current MMO market.
SO been thinking of this for a while now. MJ has consistently said Camelot Unchained is a niche MMO being developed for a niche crowd. Now this is all fine and all but as we approach the end of the Kickstarter campaign we are seeing more complaining amongst its very vocal fanbase, bordering on obsessive fanboi'ism even. Time and time again any dectractor to the game is disparraged for questioning the authority of MJ or any design decision with "this is a Niche game with a niche playerbase". To which It finally dawned on me the other day, if this is a niche game, why did they try to fund at such a high level.
AAA MMOs are about 300 million. This is 2 million. Bit of a difference.
And most of the detractors are completely ignorant of the actual game. They've made a base assumption (which is fine, and makes sense, if you don't get hooked by the base idea why would you dig into the details?) so most of the fans spend their time informing the people who make these sweeping conclusions.
First of all, there is no "actual game" yet. There's a current design map of some kind (I would hope) and a tiny bit of development with probably somewhere north of two full years of dev to come before release. You would be wise to understand that everything and anything can change between now and then, including the entire project failing outright.
You totally ignored what I said and dropped in something entirely irrelavent. Of course the game may change from now until release.
The point I was making is, I've seen so many threads of "No PvE? Not backing." or "All RvR all the time? That's boring."
They make huge assumptions based on snippets of information and lose interest, when in reality, if they read about how the game is actually designed to be, it's nothing like their assumptions claim it is. The problem is, once these folks are turned off by snippets of misinformation, they will not dig for more information and realize their assumptions are inaccurate, and why would they? Can't blame them all that much. What we CAN blame them for (and what has been REALLY annoying) is when people make ignorant posts and tons of threads spouting their misinformation and generally complaining/publically announcing that they don't like the game, and calling other people fools for liking it.
It's fine to remain ignorant of a game that doesn't interest you, but don't stink up the forums announcing your ignorance to the world, and then don't complain about "fabois" when they try to correct you.
It is CSE's job to get the information out. They have done a horrible job.
You can't be serious.
There have been 27+ updates to their Kickstarter with new information in all of it. In each update there is long text, a video, AND a bullet point summary of what is covered in the updated. There are many compiled FAQs and roundups of information posted on the Kickstarter and in other places.
CU is overflowing with information and art and videos and interviews. It takes absolutely no effort at all to find it.
And yet zero evidence of the foundation of the game with gameplay video or pre-alpha footage. His point is more valid then some blind fanboi'ish rant that most CU backers do on a daily basis.
SO been thinking of this for a while now. MJ has consistently said Camelot Unchained is a niche MMO being developed for a niche crowd. Now this is all fine and all but as we approach the end of the Kickstarter campaign we are seeing more complaining amongst its very vocal fanbase, bordering on obsessive fanboi'ism even. Time and time again any dectractor to the game is disparraged for questioning the authority of MJ or any design decision with "this is a Niche game with a niche playerbase". To which It finally dawned on me the other day, if this is a niche game, why did they try to fund at such a high level.
AAA MMOs are about 300 million. This is 2 million. Bit of a difference.
And most of the detractors are completely ignorant of the actual game. They've made a base assumption (which is fine, and makes sense, if you don't get hooked by the base idea why would you dig into the details?) so most of the fans spend their time informing the people who make these sweeping conclusions.
First of all, there is no "actual game" yet. There's a current design map of some kind (I would hope) and a tiny bit of development with probably somewhere north of two full years of dev to come before release. You would be wise to understand that everything and anything can change between now and then, including the entire project failing outright.
You totally ignored what I said and dropped in something entirely irrelavent. Of course the game may change from now until release.
The point I was making is, I've seen so many threads of "No PvE? Not backing." or "All RvR all the time? That's boring."
They make huge assumptions based on snippets of information and lose interest, when in reality, if they read about how the game is actually designed to be, it's nothing like their assumptions claim it is. The problem is, once these folks are turned off by snippets of misinformation, they will not dig for more information and realize their assumptions are inaccurate, and why would they? Can't blame them all that much. What we CAN blame them for (and what has been REALLY annoying) is when people make ignorant posts and tons of threads spouting their misinformation and generally complaining/publically announcing that they don't like the game, and calling other people fools for liking it.
It's fine to remain ignorant of a game that doesn't interest you, but don't stink up the forums announcing your ignorance to the world, and then don't complain about "fabois" when they try to correct you.
It is CSE's job to get the information out. They have done a horrible job.
You can't be serious.
There have been 27+ updates to their Kickstarter with new information in all of it. In each update there is long text, a video, AND a bullet point summary of what is covered in the updated. There are many compiled FAQs and roundups of information posted on the Kickstarter and in other places.
CU is overflowing with information and art and videos and interviews. It takes absolutely no effort at all to find it.
And yet zero evidence of the foundation of the game with gameplay video or pre-alpha footage. His point is more valid then some blind fanboi'ish rant that most CU backers do on a daily basis.
Please leave until you learn what Kickstarter is.
And there have been 5 videos of pre alpha footage. Probably more.
Heck the average cost for a single Denny’s franchise is $1.18-$2.4 Mil. And I can tell you that they are far from AAA. I know they are not related, but $2 Mil. for a multinational operation is peanuts.
Its 5 million. 2 million from KS, 2 Million from MJ, 1 Million from investors. Yes, definately not AAA money for a MMO which would be 25-50 million. But this is a RvRvR only game with 12 classes. They plan on spending 3-4 years making it. I would assume that the last year could be funded by more investors and/or preorders. So they have 5 million for 2-3 years. That is probably enough for 15-20 employees with 5-10 part time contracted. They are basically creating classes, a game engine, plus the content of New Frontiers from DAoC. Definately do able with experienced talented people.
Originally posted by TayahWhy do others care what people do with their money? I guess haters just gonna hate.
i'm still curious on peoples big opposition towards KS.. if a game goes up on KS funds and is great well great!.. if it funds and fails well obviously those who hate KS didn't pledge so why would they care? Just seems odd how many get all up and arms over KS.
/agree
If the fools would just realize that KS funded MMOs will put pressure on the other companies to make better games this would all be for the better. But instead, like most people, they see something new, fear it like a bunch of neanderthals then try to kill it and eat it.
If anything, what I see is people that actually can fund games without Kickstarter are using sucker's money to reduce their risk. Like most people, all you have to do is feed them a glimmer of hope and they're ready to empty their wallets and praise the next Messiah. Fortunately for the shysters, money matters less to people than it ever has before.
The next step to Kickstarter won't show the world that regular people can guide the MMO industry away from the big bad corporations. That's just silly. Even Mark Jacobs has said he's looking for a small/niche audience of 50k people or so. No, the next step in the Kickstarter bonanza is extreme criticism of the products that are produced and delivered. The next step involves watching the MMO community pulverize whatever MMO creations that are actually born of Kickstarter.
People already make games without the big publishers all the time without Kickstarter. Why would you think that Kickstarter would change anything?
curious to how you know there complete financial profile and what they can and cannot afford.. from what I have see to even get a decent kickstarter going for a large project you already are going to need to put a lot of money in. Also why put all the financial burdon on yourself on a game that no one may have interest in? why would MJ spend millions to make CS if only 10k people max were even interested at all.. KS is a good way to feel out the audience of a game and allow for input and ideas from fans as you progress through the development process... but again to you personally what does it really matter at all?
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
SO been thinking of this for a while now. MJ has consistently said Camelot Unchained is a niche MMO being developed for a niche crowd. Now this is all fine and all but as we approach the end of the Kickstarter campaign we are seeing more complaining amongst its very vocal fanbase, bordering on obsessive fanboi'ism even. Time and time again any dectractor to the game is disparraged for questioning the authority of MJ or any design decision with "this is a Niche game with a niche playerbase". To which It finally dawned on me the other day, if this is a niche game, why did they try to fund at such a high level.
This is jsut further proof that the people behind this KS'er have no understanding of the demographics of the MMO'verse, trying to Kickstart a niche MMO on a Triple-A budget. Here's a hint next time know your base and know your limitations, Star Citizen and Shadowrun were successfuly Kickstarted because they monetary goals matched their outlook, CU's Goals are unrealistic.
$2million is chump change by AAA MMO standards. BioWare probably spent more than that on the free coffee in their canteens. You need to adjust your perspectives.
SO been thinking of this for a while now. MJ has consistently said Camelot Unchained is a niche MMO being developed for a niche crowd. Now this is all fine and all but as we approach the end of the Kickstarter campaign we are seeing more complaining amongst its very vocal fanbase, bordering on obsessive fanboi'ism even. Time and time again any dectractor to the game is disparraged for questioning the authority of MJ or any design decision with "this is a Niche game with a niche playerbase". To which It finally dawned on me the other day, if this is a niche game, why did they try to fund at such a high level.
This is jsut further proof that the people behind this KS'er have no understanding of the demographics of the MMO'verse, trying to Kickstart a niche MMO on a Triple-A budget. Here's a hint next time know your base and know your limitations, Star Citizen and Shadowrun were successfuly Kickstarted because they monetary goals matched their outlook, CU's Goals are unrealistic.
$2million is chump change by AAA MMO standards. BioWare probably spent more than that on the free coffee in their canteens. You need to adjust your perspectives.
$2 million is entirely too much to try and KS a niche MMO like CU. More well Rounded KS games have been funded by less starting money. This shows 2 things:
Mark Jacobs and CSE are greedy or
Mark Jacobs and CSE do not know their own game demographics and a failure to Crowd Fund a niche game with a proper starting KS campaign is systemic of all the negativity he has reaped over the years.
SO been thinking of this for a while now. MJ has consistently said Camelot Unchained is a niche MMO being developed for a niche crowd. Now this is all fine and all but as we approach the end of the Kickstarter campaign we are seeing more complaining amongst its very vocal fanbase, bordering on obsessive fanboi'ism even. Time and time again any dectractor to the game is disparraged for questioning the authority of MJ or any design decision with "this is a Niche game with a niche playerbase". To which It finally dawned on me the other day, if this is a niche game, why did they try to fund at such a high level.
AAA MMOs are about 300 million. This is 2 million. Bit of a difference.
And most of the detractors are completely ignorant of the actual game. They've made a base assumption (which is fine, and makes sense, if you don't get hooked by the base idea why would you dig into the details?) so most of the fans spend their time informing the people who make these sweeping conclusions.
First of all, there is no "actual game" yet. There's a current design map of some kind (I would hope) and a tiny bit of development with probably somewhere north of two full years of dev to come before release. You would be wise to understand that everything and anything can change between now and then, including the entire project failing outright.
You totally ignored what I said and dropped in something entirely irrelavent. Of course the game may change from now until release.
The point I was making is, I've seen so many threads of "No PvE? Not backing." or "All RvR all the time? That's boring."
They make huge assumptions based on snippets of information and lose interest, when in reality, if they read about how the game is actually designed to be, it's nothing like their assumptions claim it is. The problem is, once these folks are turned off by snippets of misinformation, they will not dig for more information and realize their assumptions are inaccurate, and why would they? Can't blame them all that much. What we CAN blame them for (and what has been REALLY annoying) is when people make ignorant posts and tons of threads spouting their misinformation and generally complaining/publically announcing that they don't like the game, and calling other people fools for liking it.
It's fine to remain ignorant of a game that doesn't interest you, but don't stink up the forums announcing your ignorance to the world, and then don't complain about "fabois" when they try to correct you.
It is CSE's job to get the information out. They have done a horrible job.
You can't be serious.
There have been 27+ updates to their Kickstarter with new information in all of it. In each update there is long text, a video, AND a bullet point summary of what is covered in the updated. There are many compiled FAQs and roundups of information posted on the Kickstarter and in other places.
CU is overflowing with information and art and videos and interviews. It takes absolutely no effort at all to find it.
Obviously the information isn't getting off the kickstarter boards to the people. Again that is my case in point. And if it is, then apparently most people could care less as it is funded and I would be willing to bet not going to be funded. I would say that you have a whole lot of faith in some people that have nothing real to show other than a bunch of good ideas. Sounds kind of like the people that post on these forums.....
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
SO been thinking of this for a while now. MJ has consistently said Camelot Unchained is a niche MMO being developed for a niche crowd. Now this is all fine and all but as we approach the end of the Kickstarter campaign we are seeing more complaining amongst its very vocal fanbase, bordering on obsessive fanboi'ism even. Time and time again any dectractor to the game is disparraged for questioning the authority of MJ or any design decision with "this is a Niche game with a niche playerbase". To which It finally dawned on me the other day, if this is a niche game, why did they try to fund at such a high level.
This is jsut further proof that the people behind this KS'er have no understanding of the demographics of the MMO'verse, trying to Kickstart a niche MMO on a Triple-A budget. Here's a hint next time know your base and know your limitations, Star Citizen and Shadowrun were successfuly Kickstarted because they monetary goals matched their outlook, CU's Goals are unrealistic.
$2million is chump change by AAA MMO standards. BioWare probably spent more than that on the free coffee in their canteens. You need to adjust your perspectives.
$2 million is entirely too much to try and KS a niche MMO like CU. More well Rounded KS games have been funded by less starting money. This shows 2 things:
Mark Jacobs and CSE are greedy or
Mark Jacobs and CSE do not know their own game demographics and a failure to Crowd Fund a niche game with a proper starting KS campaign is systemic of all the negativity he has reaped over the years.
I would wager its the latter.
You said in your title "triple A budget".
This shows one important thing.
1.You don't have a grasp on financials in the real world.
Originally posted by TayahWhy do others care what people do with their money? I guess haters just gonna hate.
i'm still curious on peoples big opposition towards KS.. if a game goes up on KS funds and is great well great!.. if it funds and fails well obviously those who hate KS didn't pledge so why would they care? Just seems odd how many get all up and arms over KS.
/agree
If the fools would just realize that KS funded MMOs will put pressure on the other companies to make better games this would all be for the better. But instead, like most people, they see something new, fear it like a bunch of neanderthals then try to kill it and eat it.
If anything, what I see is people that actually can fund games without Kickstarter are using sucker's money to reduce their risk. Like most people, all you have to do is feed them a glimmer of hope and they're ready to empty their wallets and praise the next Messiah. Fortunately for the shysters, money matters less to people than it ever has before.
The next step to Kickstarter won't show the world that regular people can guide the MMO industry away from the big bad corporations. That's just silly. Even Mark Jacobs has said he's looking for a small/niche audience of 50k people or so. No, the next step in the Kickstarter bonanza is extreme criticism of the products that are produced and delivered. The next step involves watching the MMO community pulverize whatever MMO creations that are actually born of Kickstarter.
People already make games without the big publishers all the time without Kickstarter. Why would you think that Kickstarter would change anything?
Maybe they can do the game themself. But what do we care? Just imagine if somebody comes and tells you "I can make a great game for you that you'll really like, but i don't want to use my own money to do it, so give me your money and i'll do it".
What is the problem with that? How is it different from somebody telling you "Here is a great game, give me money and i give it to you"? Will you stop buying any game because the big company selling them already have tons of money?
And we don't even know if MJ can afford to fund this himself. He already said he wouldn't get any money from that KS, and he is giving $2M, meaning he won't get a cent untill they sell the first boxes and subs.
I don't get that mentality of "I will throw away any fun i could have if it means i'll prevent somebody else to have more money than me".
If the game is appreciated by the small niche audiance, it means any indie that find a similar niche for another type of game will have chances to make some money. So more indies will try it, and there will be more and more small niche games. And 50k by 50k, it'll eat away on the big corporations audiance.
Do you have any example of an MMO created by anyone else than a big publisher without KS? With, of course, a small enough budget, or it would mean you still need the big publisher. I would be curious to see them.
Comments
Why is it important to have a game world without restrictions? I don't want to be put on a empty plane and get said that I have to find the fun on myself. I want to have some decisions to make. For example, what realm I want to play. And the decision has some consequences, I cannot play the races and classes of the other realms. Btw, having distinct races is a perfect way to recognize friend and foe. You don't have to mark them red or blue or green. Ok, the naming tag helps
While I love to play new games, no matter if they combine things which where already in other games or have some innovations in it, the thing that really hooks me with CU is
#1 that the development process is so visible for the community. It feels like we have influence on that game, being part of it even before we can activly playing it.
And #2 The realm pride thing. I don't know, maybe I wish the old days back, but I think this game can bring real socialization back into an mmo.
While the attempt of GW2, bringing people together with open quests was surely a kind thought, it didn't evolved as expected. People crowd together to hit a boss, but there is no interaction between them. I hope that this will be different in CU.
And I like to be a crafter to support the fray, this is also something which sounds exciting. And I honestly don't know where this has been happen similar to the concept in CU. I never played minecraft, but as far as I know, there is no other goal than digging holes and build something just for the fun of building.
MMO's played so far:
UO,EQ,DAOC,EQ2,GW,ROM,WOW,WAR,AOC,LOTRO,RIFT,TSW,GW2,POE
Looking forward to: Camelot Unchained, Star Citizen
AAA MMOs are about 300 million. This is 2 million. Bit of a difference.
And most of the detractors are completely ignorant of the actual game. They've made a base assumption (which is fine, and makes sense, if you don't get hooked by the base idea why would you dig into the details?) so most of the fans spend their time informing the people who make these sweeping conclusions.
The point the OP was making is that this game doesn't have 30-70K followers, *currently*, who are willing to fund it, so having such a high goal right away is silly. Crowdfunding isn't the same as getting real investors, and it should be treated as a way to get partial funding...and by partial I mean having realistic expectations about how big their initiail following will be.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
First of all, there is no "actual game" yet. There's a current design map of some kind (I would hope) and a tiny bit of development with probably somewhere north of two full years of dev to come before release. You would be wise to understand that everything and anything can change between now and then, including the entire project failing outright.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
RVR is- clue here - ENTIRE REALM vs the other realms, 24/7 non stop allways available forever
WOW is 10 vs 10 for 20 minutes followed by 30 mins of sat in a city queueing
Wintergrasp and Tol Barad are battlegrounds in disguise, they're on bloody timers and have entry restrictions. Again you have to sit on your arse waiting for them to be up.
this is beacuse wow is a raiding game ran by former EQ raiders. Thats where the priority lies, PVP is meant to be something you play for a little while for fun while youre waiting for your raid to form.
You totally ignored what I said and dropped in something entirely irrelavent. Of course the game may change from now until release.
The point I was making is, I've seen so many threads of "No PvE? Not backing." or "All RvR all the time? That's boring."
They make huge assumptions based on snippets of information and lose interest, when in reality, if they read about how the game is actually designed to be, it's nothing like their assumptions claim it is. The problem is, once these folks are turned off by snippets of misinformation, they will not dig for more information and realize their assumptions are inaccurate, and why would they? Can't blame them all that much. What we CAN blame them for (and what has been REALLY annoying) is when people make ignorant posts and tons of threads spouting their misinformation and generally complaining/publically announcing that they don't like the game, and calling other people fools for liking it.
It's fine to remain ignorant of a game that doesn't interest you, but don't stink up the forums announcing your ignorance to the world, and then don't complain about "fabois" when they try to correct you.
Wildstar:
Phantazm, Pago(PvP), Exiles
Guild: Socks with Sandals
Playing: Wildstar
Retired/Tried: DCUO. The Secret World, Darkfall UW, Darkfall, Mortal Online, DDO, Rift, Fallen Earth, Aion, APB, EQ, EQ2, PoTBS, WoW, WAR, SWG, CoX, Vangaurd, CO, GW, EVE, DAoC, LotRO, SW:ToR, GW2, Dragon Nest
i'm still curious on peoples big opposition towards KS.. if a game goes up on KS funds and is great well great!.. if it funds and fails well obviously those who hate KS didn't pledge so why would they care? Just seems odd how many get all up and arms over KS.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
It is CSE's job to get the information out. They have done a horrible job. The reason that people make these ignorant posts as you claim them to be is because CSE is failing at their job of selling the game. There is no way that this game will get funded. Plain and simple. They want 2 million dollars and have nothing to show for it. There reference information isn't even organized. Don't blame the people, blame CSE. I am sorry that you won't get your game.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
You can't be serious.
There have been 27+ updates to their Kickstarter with new information in all of it. In each update there is long text, a video, AND a bullet point summary of what is covered in the updated. There are many compiled FAQs and roundups of information posted on the Kickstarter and in other places.
CU is overflowing with information and art and videos and interviews. It takes absolutely no effort at all to find it.
You wont get a zerg of players. Most people don't now, and won't later know what CU even is. It will likely fall into the same trap as Darkfall and Mortal Online. PvP MMO's only get small audiences. Then again, if less than 50,000 players is what they are going for, then perhaps all is well.
If anything, what I see is people that actually can fund games without Kickstarter are using sucker's money to reduce their risk. Like most people, all you have to do is feed them a glimmer of hope and they're ready to empty their wallets and praise the next Messiah. Fortunately for the shysters, money matters less to people than it ever has before.
The next step to Kickstarter won't show the world that regular people can guide the MMO industry away from the big bad corporations. That's just silly. Even Mark Jacobs has said he's looking for a small/niche audience of 50k people or so. No, the next step in the Kickstarter bonanza is extreme criticism of the products that are produced and delivered. The next step involves watching the MMO community pulverize whatever MMO creations that are actually born of Kickstarter.
People already make games without the big publishers all the time without Kickstarter. Why would you think that Kickstarter would change anything?
Heck the average cost for a single Denny’s franchise is $1.18-$2.4 Mil. And I can tell you that they are far from AAA. I know they are not related, but $2 Mil. for a multinational operation is peanuts.
Nanulak
Thank you, this was the exact point I tried to make, granted I used a little hyperbole and wordsmithing to spicen it up which could be a mistake I suppose.
The point remains, CU crowd funding is entirely too high and at 2 mill, will never be reached. MJ should of kept it at 1 million tops because its marketed at a niche audience and to attempt to crowdfund it at 2 million is a joke and shows just out of touch Mark is in the current MMO market.
SUP
And yet zero evidence of the foundation of the game with gameplay video or pre-alpha footage. His point is more valid then some blind fanboi'ish rant that most CU backers do on a daily basis.
SUP
Please leave until you learn what Kickstarter is.
And there have been 5 videos of pre alpha footage. Probably more.
Its 5 million. 2 million from KS, 2 Million from MJ, 1 Million from investors. Yes, definately not AAA money for a MMO which would be 25-50 million. But this is a RvRvR only game with 12 classes. They plan on spending 3-4 years making it. I would assume that the last year could be funded by more investors and/or preorders. So they have 5 million for 2-3 years. That is probably enough for 15-20 employees with 5-10 part time contracted. They are basically creating classes, a game engine, plus the content of New Frontiers from DAoC. Definately do able with experienced talented people.
curious to how you know there complete financial profile and what they can and cannot afford.. from what I have see to even get a decent kickstarter going for a large project you already are going to need to put a lot of money in. Also why put all the financial burdon on yourself on a game that no one may have interest in? why would MJ spend millions to make CS if only 10k people max were even interested at all.. KS is a good way to feel out the audience of a game and allow for input and ideas from fans as you progress through the development process... but again to you personally what does it really matter at all?
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Has the OP responded in this thread explaining how he/she thinks 2 million is "triple A" money territory in development terms ?
It's peanuts compared to actual Triple A budgets for games.
Not sure where they got this silly idea.
$2million is chump change by AAA MMO standards. BioWare probably spent more than that on the free coffee in their canteens. You need to adjust your perspectives.
$2 million is entirely too much to try and KS a niche MMO like CU. More well Rounded KS games have been funded by less starting money. This shows 2 things:
SUP
Obviously the information isn't getting off the kickstarter boards to the people. Again that is my case in point. And if it is, then apparently most people could care less as it is funded and I would be willing to bet not going to be funded. I would say that you have a whole lot of faith in some people that have nothing real to show other than a bunch of good ideas. Sounds kind of like the people that post on these forums.....
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
You said in your title "triple A budget".
This shows one important thing.
1.You don't have a grasp on financials in the real world.
Maybe they can do the game themself. But what do we care? Just imagine if somebody comes and tells you "I can make a great game for you that you'll really like, but i don't want to use my own money to do it, so give me your money and i'll do it".
What is the problem with that? How is it different from somebody telling you "Here is a great game, give me money and i give it to you"? Will you stop buying any game because the big company selling them already have tons of money?
And we don't even know if MJ can afford to fund this himself. He already said he wouldn't get any money from that KS, and he is giving $2M, meaning he won't get a cent untill they sell the first boxes and subs.
I don't get that mentality of "I will throw away any fun i could have if it means i'll prevent somebody else to have more money than me".
If the game is appreciated by the small niche audiance, it means any indie that find a similar niche for another type of game will have chances to make some money. So more indies will try it, and there will be more and more small niche games. And 50k by 50k, it'll eat away on the big corporations audiance.
Do you have any example of an MMO created by anyone else than a big publisher without KS? With, of course, a small enough budget, or it would mean you still need the big publisher. I would be curious to see them.