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RvC? MAOC?

ZeymereZeymere Somewhere, VAPosts: 203Member Uncommon

So I have been following this since inception.  I loved DAOC.  I played WAR and was very familiar with Mythic entertainment.  With that said, after reading almost all the information on CU and watching almost all the videos I came to the conclusion that this game seems more like Realms vs. Crafters and less like RvR.  Now I know this isn’t the case, it can’t be.  But this is the overall impression I am getting.  Is this what it will need to be because there is no PVE?  Do others get this impression?  I really want a good RvR game to succeed. I will most likely back this near the end of the KS but I just wanted to share this and see how others feel.

Also a side note, I personally don’t like Minecraft. I respect it for what it is but I hate all the references to it and if this is going to be a MAOC, Minecraft age of Camelot, then count me out.

Comments

  • belatucadrosbelatucadros Toronto, ONPosts: 263Member
    Originally posted by Zeymere

    So I have been following this since inception.  I loved DAOC.  I played WAR and was very familiar with Mythic entertainment.  With that said, after reading almost all the information on CU and watching almost all the videos I came to the conclusion that this game seems more like Realms vs. Crafters and less like RvR.  Now I know this isn’t the case, it can’t be.  But this is the overall impression I am getting.  Is this what it will need to be because there is no PVE?  Do others get this impression?  I really want a good RvR game to succeed. I will most likely back this near the end of the KS but I just wanted to share this and see how others feel.

    Also a side note, I personally don’t like Minecraft. I respect it for what it is but I hate all the references to it and if this is going to be a MAOC, Minecraft age of Camelot, then count me out.

    I've seen other people complain about the crafting focus, but you have to understand that RVR is a known concept, and most of their subscriber base should be familiar with it - that's not to say that the upcoming RVR update isn't important, it is.

    But given what we already know about RVR + the foundation principles, I think you can get a decent picture.

    Now, would I like some class descrptions etc? Yeah, but honestly it doesn't matter - unless there's somehow not a single class that interests me.

    They've gone more into depth on the crafting because, let's be honest - it's quite ambitious. Think shadowbane meets DAOC, I don't know. 

    I am excited for the RVR update though, if only because it will help get people with these concerns off the fence.

    Eldritch, Nightshade, Warden, Druid, Mauler, Mentalist
    Sorcerer, Necromancer, Theurgist, Armsman, Cleric
    Healer, Warrior, Skald

  • ArbroathArbroath Depew, NYPosts: 175Member
    IMHO the reason they have been focusing on crafting and building so much as of late is because it's a very different system from what we've seen in the past. Crafters having thier own class and incorporating a new building system than we're used to. Very soon we will see more on the actual RvR and combat systems. We'll also see more on classes and abilities. I think once these updates come out, in the next few days I'm guessing, you'll feel more at ease about the nature of RvR combat in the game. This game will be very RvR-centric, and MJ & co will be sure to deliver a good combat experience. I'm fairly confident of that.

    It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom — for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself. ~Declaration of Arbroath

  • Scrat^ITAScrat^ITA PistoiaPosts: 17Member
    Originally posted by Zeymere

    So I have been following this since inception.  I loved DAOC.  I played WAR and was very familiar with Mythic entertainment.  With that said, after reading almost all the information on CU and watching almost all the videos I came to the conclusion that this game seems more like Realms vs. Crafters and less like RvR.  Now I know this isn’t the case, it can’t be.  But this is the overall impression I am getting.  Is this what it will need to be because there is no PVE?  Do others get this impression?  I really want a good RvR game to succeed. I will most likely back this near the end of the KS but I just wanted to share this and see how others feel.

    Also a side note, I personally don’t like Minecraft. I respect it for what it is but I hate all the references to it and if this is going to be a MAOC, Minecraft age of Camelot, then count me out.

    I believe the Vision behind CU is to answer the need of a three-faction RvR game and the one of sandbox crafting. There are lots of human beings that loved SWG's crafting as it was very very vast. There are lots of fans of what PvP was when it was RvR, in DAoC. There also is a niche of fans of both worlds.

    I think giving crafters an important role in the big picture is what is missing now, removing grinding won't be missed, instead.

    And having crafters play that role will vastly improve the experience for "soldiers" alike. You have to escort your crafters, they have to build things for you to be effective in battle, conquer more territory on the battlefield. You work as a team as always, but the team has a new role that is the crafter.

    Sandboxing like this makes everything deeper and, that's my pov obviously, funnier :>

    (I'll probably be a full time crafter in the game, only marginally "warrior")

    Tusken Raiders - Your Italian Guild on Star Wars: The Old Republic

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,496Member Uncommon

    IMO having a dedicated crafter class is a bad design decision, it would make a lot more sense to have a crafter role available for all classes, introduce a cool down for switching between crafting and combat roles if needed.

    Just my opinion, I just see lots of frustration in being dependent on crafters in RvR, it will only lead to many folks having alt crafter accounts, which is good for CSE as a sub based game, but not so good for the player, as it would be better to just manage one account and craft with your main.

    Time will tell, IMO a dedicated crafter class might be one of those things that sounds great conceptually, but not so great in actual gameplay.

    I think this early in design CSE is thinking more from perspective "this has never been done before" instead "how will this work in actual gameplay", they are simply very early in conceptual stage so I expect a lot of these early ideas to change after actual testing and feedback.

    I think a dedicated crafter class will get nixed after testing and feedback.

     

  • meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zeymere

    So I have been following this since inception.  I loved DAOC.  I played WAR and was very familiar with Mythic entertainment.  With that said, after reading almost all the information on CU and watching almost all the videos I came to the conclusion that this game seems more like Realms vs. Crafters and less like RvR.  Now I know this isn’t the case, it can’t be.  But this is the overall impression I am getting.  Is this what it will need to be because there is no PVE?  Do others get this impression?  I really want a good RvR game to succeed. I will most likely back this near the end of the KS but I just wanted to share this and see how others feel.

    Also a side note, I personally don’t like Minecraft. I respect it for what it is but I hate all the references to it and if this is going to be a MAOC, Minecraft age of Camelot, then count me out.

    You are not alone. This is the impression I get too and has led me to reduce my pledge until I get more Tri-Realm information. Mark keeps promising that we will get some updates about combat and Tri-Realm but we're running out of days for that to happen.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • Niix_OzekNiix_Ozek Calgary, ABPosts: 397Member
    Originally posted by DMKano

    IMO having a dedicated crafter class is a bad design decision, it would make a lot more sense to have a crafter role available for all classes, introduce a cool down for switching between crafting and combat roles if needed.

    Just my opinion, I just see lots of frustration in being dependent on crafters in RvR, it will only lead to many folks having alt crafter accounts, which is good for CSE as a sub based game, but not so good for the player, as it would be better to just manage one account and craft with your main.

    Time will tell, IMO a dedicated crafter class might be one of those things that sounds great conceptually, but not so great in actual gameplay.

    I think this early in design CSE is thinking more from perspective "this has never been done before" instead "how will this work in actual gameplay", they are simply very early in conceptual stage so I expect a lot of these early ideas to change after actual testing and feedback.

    I think a dedicated crafter class will get nixed after testing and feedback.

     

    I have to agree with you... I have a strong feeling after 3 months it will get boring just building crap and people tearing it down ( NOT TO EVERYONE ), but to enough people to dwindle the crafter class population to a very small chunk ... so in essence you're developing a MAJOR part of this game and integrating it into RVR for a small select few...

    I am also in agreement about the dedicated crafter class, I don't understand this, especially if they can't fight... and soloing is going to become "go chase and kill the crafters cuz they can't defend themselves" instead of fighting an actual opponent...

    I'm really disappointed they didn't come out of the gate April 2nd fulling our minds with information and desire about a combat system, get us more excited instead of waiting until the end ... it's likely to get funded, unless their combat ideas are failures but I doubt that will be the case.. 

     

    Ozek - DAOC
    Niix - Other games that sucked

  • meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon
    Just wanted to add my +1 to not liking crafting be an entire class with little to no combat skills. I hope Mark will be open minded to reconsidering that design during development and testing if the majority of backers agree with us. At least give the crafter class some support skills (not as good as the main healer of course) so it won't be a waste of a group slot in combat.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • BreezeDMBreezeDM Manchester, CTPosts: 4Member
    I don't think the game will be focused on crafting. It will probably cost too much money to do anything fun for a while. The only thing I am looking forward to is building Hadrians Wall through crafting. 
  • kaltahnkaltahn Virginia Beach, VAPosts: 31Member

    If you don't want to craft or be a crafter, then don't roll a crafter?  If you don't want to fight crafters in RvR... don't target them?

    I don't see how there being a pure crafting class in each realm has any effect on how a non-crafting player plays this game.  If anything, you should rejoice at there being squishies for you to pummel if they decide to do something stupid and  run by you solo.  Be a combat role, leave that other stuff for people that are interested in it, and go about your merry bloody business.

  • naezgulnaezgul Homer Glen, ILPosts: 374Member

    I generally agree with OP, The Depths should have been part of goal, and the extensive crafter mechanics a stretch goal. 

    The RvR side should have been focus initially and last crafter focus.

  • poisonmanpoisonman Warwick, RIPosts: 59Member

    Crafters are going to be the heart and soul of the game!

    Everything will be buildable in game, the whole world is going to be mostly empty other than the 3 main safe cities.

    Its going to be a lot like legos / minecraft like building, sounds like a lot of fun.

    Well unlike DAoC and UO where all the houses in game were pre made and the same, you can pretty much do anything in your imagination like minecraft

    I imagine people building houses, buildings, castles, towns, walls, houses, etc  People are going to build everything, it is going to be awesome.

    I've still never played minecraft but the pics and videos i see from it are insane, the work / time / detail people put into that stuff, the finished products are fucking nasty most of the time.

    I think that shit will make the fighting way more epic then the frontier in DAoC could ever be due to people's connection to things, not just because they captured / own / spend alot of time around it, but because they built it.

    I just think we are going to see some amazing things, and once you build something amazing you can make a blueprint of it so if someone does destroy if you can rebuild it quickly, it will be EPIC!

     
  • belatucadrosbelatucadros Toronto, ONPosts: 263Member
    Originally posted by meddyck
    Just wanted to add my +1 to not liking crafting be an entire class with little to no combat skills. I hope Mark will be open minded to reconsidering that design during development and testing if the majority of backers agree with us. At least give the crafter class some support skills (not as good as the main healer of course) so it won't be a waste of a group slot in combat.

    +1 as well.

    Unless there's a single auxiliary slot for only-crafters, I don't see most groups fielding what is essentially an RP sponge, on the off chance they want to do some sieging.

    and "escorting" isn't a great idea if it's as hard to get deep into the other realm as they've said. ain't nobody got time for that

    Eldritch, Nightshade, Warden, Druid, Mauler, Mentalist
    Sorcerer, Necromancer, Theurgist, Armsman, Cleric
    Healer, Warrior, Skald

  • DanwarrDanwarr Grove City, PAPosts: 185Member
    Originally posted by belatucadros
    Originally posted by meddyck
    Just wanted to add my +1 to not liking crafting be an entire class with little to no combat skills. I hope Mark will be open minded to reconsidering that design during development and testing if the majority of backers agree with us. At least give the crafter class some support skills (not as good as the main healer of course) so it won't be a waste of a group slot in combat.

    +1 as well.

    Unless there's a single auxiliary slot for only-crafters, I don't see most groups fielding what is essentially an RP sponge, on the off chance they want to do some sieging.

    and "escorting" isn't a great idea if it's as hard to get deep into the other realm as they've said. ain't nobody got time for that

    I hope they make the crafter class sort of like the Engineer in Team Fortress 2. That would be perfect imo.

    Waiting: CU, WildStar, Destiny, Eternal Crusade
    Playing: ESO,DCUO
    Played: LotRO,RIFT,ToR,Warhammer, Runescape

  • Niix_OzekNiix_Ozek Calgary, ABPosts: 397Member
    Originally posted by poisonman

    Crafters are going to be the heart and soul of the game!

     

    Honestly think this is the problem. What happens if crafting dies out or gets tedious for most players and there isn't enough crafters to support?

    What happens when a portion of the rvr players just target crafters? starts alienating the desire for rvr combat, I don't want to babysit someone all day ... puts a lot of focus on crafters instead of rvr ... so I really hope he's got some ideas to prevent this.

    We'll see

    Ozek - DAOC
    Niix - Other games that sucked

  • ArbroathArbroath Depew, NYPosts: 175Member

    I can't wait to play a dedicated crafter. I was so bloody sick of everyone being able to do the exact same shit I was. I geared myself and sold crap to guildies and that was it. Because there was no demand because every other shithead could make the same garbage. Now I have a chance to actually play a crafter and have there be a need for me? Don't piss on my parade ffs. Play your combat class and leave me the fuck alone. 

     

    thank you..../endrant

    It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom — for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself. ~Declaration of Arbroath

  • TuktzTuktz Atlanta, GAPosts: 299Member
    Can't wait to destroy all this stuff crafters are making. haha!

    image
    MMO history - EVE GW2 SWTOR RIFT WAR COH/V EQ2 WOW DAOC
    Tuktz - http://www.heretic.shivtr.com/

  • kaltahnkaltahn Virginia Beach, VAPosts: 31Member
    Originally posted by Tuktz
    Can't wait to destroy all this stuff crafters are making. haha!

    *Sees pudgy enemy crafter guy painstakingly cobble together a single brick of the castle he plans to build in RvRland*

    *Ignores the crafter, breaks the brick, and gleefully runs away*

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