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The problem with MMOs these days is developers are making games and not virtual worlds.
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Yeh it is. And this is progress. Creating games over virtual world is where the market is going.
Waiting and nothing happens is bad game design, and not entertaining. Back in EQ days, that is what you have to endure if you want to play an online RPG with your friend (unless you want to play UO, which is worse).
It is great that no devs will go that path again. And if some niche devs happen to try again, i am glad there are plenty of alternatives and i can just ignore them.
It always worries me when you and I seem to be in agreement about something. I feel like I need to look over my shoulder because Darth Vader is standing there with a plate of cookies.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
It virtual worlds there are down times and inconveience.
Embrace your dark side. It is more fun
and we haven't discussed what "mmorpg" means ... again ... yet.
Yeah .. That is why some games minimize the virtual world .. or some even don't have one in the first place.
Take a quick cruise through nariusseldon's post history and it will become crystal clear. Some folks make it a hobby to disrupt internet forum threads. /shrug
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Can you actually read? I didn't make a single post about what "seamless" mean.
LOL...Venge u really are just lip service, arn't you...?
Vanguard does not have a zone walls... there is zero artificial barriers within the game, like there is with World of Warcraft. You are confusing the technicality of ZONE made game, verse one that uses assets loading via chunking, but in an open world.
Your post has done nothing except illustrate the fact that you do not understand the technical difference, and probably why you have a hard time identifying game mechanics and game types..
Btw.. the "chunks" in Vanguard are there to load non-static assets.. other people, their armor, new buildings that were built, etc.. not the actual geography. Secondly, that server technology is 10 years old now... & arguing any more is just proving my over-all point how todays developers are going the easy cheap route using zones instead of Open World.
You can still "load" an area in an Open World, but you are not artificially restricted by an invisable walls point you towards a town, etc.. Most of todays Open Worlds stream data, so they are seamless... but you can still "load" assets in an Open World, that doesn't change it type, or design.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
The chunk lines are the zone walls. They do everything zone walls do. The game pauses and loads up the assests. The only thing that is different is there is no loading screen.
It probably isn't loading as much as old zones in EQ or DAOC but it is fact the game is loading up assets and the game does pause. From the view of the person looking at it, it is literally the exact same thing minus the loading screen. There is still a pause in the game sometimes for several minutes, it is still loading things up.
The same thing.
EQ - cross zone line, game pauses from several seconds to several minutes to load up various assets. See loading screen.
VG - cross chunk line, game pauses from several seconds to several minutes to load up various assets. No loading screen.
Not enough different from the viewers side. Technically it may not be a "zone wall" but it is doing the same thing for the same reasons and from the users side is the same thing with the same results.
The good old days.
Your point seems pretty irrelevant given that I can freely fly between the zones at any point. Why do you feel this is at all relevant to the discussion?
Can you travel anywhere around a large land mass with no load time? Then it's open world.
Whether the connections between zones are controlled (EVE) or more open (AC1) has no bearing on whether a game is open world.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
It's easy to sidetrack this crowd. Right now, Phelch has several people on a leash and I don't think they realize it.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
We, or at least I, realize it. It's just hard to let inane comments that twist what you said or what was intended go
of course I wouldn't have really called the OP a thought provoking post, more like a baiting post.
But of course thats why we come here isn't it? Entertainment? Certainly not for the quality haha.
Games have been going in that direction already.
Honestly, it's nearly impossible to have both. In order to make something massively multiplayer, you need to give up some of the mechanics single player games have, in favor of more redundant / replayable mechanics. In order to make a virtual world, you generally have to sacrifice a lot of gameplay elements in order to make it function properly. This tends to mean more empty environments, lower graphics quality, limited content in favor of more repeatable / grindy activities.
Simply put, especially in today's climate, it's either action packed gameplay that feels more like a 'game', or dull / repetative gameplay that's more 'immersive'. For example, look at DF/UW. Fairly sandboxy, but there's a lot of monotony involved to support such a system. Some players enjoy it as part of a necessity for the game to work. Many do not. There's a reason it's a fairly niche game.
LOL^
Again, u are trying to troll me, by playing games with words..? A zone wall is just that,.. a wall. Impassable!!
I think you are confused with a zone wall, being a zone line... A zone line, is when u reach the physical limit of a zone, and must pass on into another zone, so that when u hit the zone line, u ar removed from the game, then reloaded into another zone, with all the people in that zone.
A zone wall is the invisible, unpassable wall... that makes up the bounderies of the zone... they have nothing to do with zoning into another zone, they are they to prevent such a thing...
Again... a zone wall is an artifical wall that exist, that makes up the actual borders of that zone, so that you cannot leave it, unless you find a zone line to pass over..
For example: World of Warcraft
When in Auberdine, One cannot travel due east to get to the felwood... there is an artifical zone wall preventing that. One must travel due south past/near Astraraar, then northeast into felwood. All because of a fake, artifical zone wall. As you are essentially moving to zone, to zone... as the developers wants & funnels you to... thus shoehorn style of play.
(ie: themepark)
Vanguard has none of that... it has zero zone walls. It just happens to use increments of space as when to dump & reload game assets. Those "chunk" lines can be moved all over and do not effect the geography, or the game.. those chunks are not physical barriers, they are asset loading triggers. Not a seperate zone server... as a typical EQ/WoW/DAOC zone.
Coincidentally, "Open World" does not mean seamless... it means it is open & free from artifical restriction. (ie zone walls)
*Understand, seamless means it streams data, or pre-asset loading. (Vanguard is not seamless... but it is open world)
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
PoE is an interesting example, they have used an isometic look down like old Ultima did. This approach gives a bigger feeling of space to my eyes as you see the other side of the wall. You see whats outside of the path. I have always been a true 3D fan though, you can't beat that. The thing is though, that PoE is to Ultima what Rift, SWTOR etc are to EQ and Lotro. Smaller, downsized versions. Yes its meant to be like Diablo, but it could be much bigger.
I quite like some of the ideas they are trying out at PoE actually, but as I always say wait until it launches. Even with F2P games, why play a unifinshed beta when you can play the finished, polished product later?
Naw, I suspected he was intentionally disruptive. I said so in my post. He's wrong about a couple of things right now, but f*** if I'm going to correct him. Let somebody else do it.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Bcuz you are incapable of correcting me... you are using ego & bravado, instead of actual knowledge. That is the reason Quiz hasn't tapped this thread, bcuz he understand the technicalities that drive the industry... server structure is the biggest technicality of them all..!
You only understand how these developers have presented games to the public... how they have put shinny glitzy things in their games, so that you forget there are zone walls. You don't understand why there are particular zone walls, though... do you? Why the developers made Auberdine so close to a lvl 40 felwood and seperated them by 20 feet, with an invisibale zone wall...
Point being here that many people don't understand the technical side of MMORPG (or, mmo).. they do not see (extrapolated) how a new game given it's server type/structure already has technical limitations, ... yet we still have to endure next 3 years is newbies on the forums telling the Dev's they want this changed, or something needs to be like this... with this type of game mechanic, etc..
All-the-while^, not understanding that it cannot be implamented given the dev's server structure.
Example: contrasting server structure
Rift is different, because it server technology is different.... so different that they highlighted their net-code/server structure and actually showcased it as "dynamic events". Additionally, when SOE developed virtualized spaces in their net-code/servers, they went overbaord with LDON and instancing... because that allowed them to easily provide cheap made to order dungeons (x 100).
That technology can be done easily today... that is why Narius is here marketing all his Rust Hearts & Scarlet Blade type mmos to everyone. A bunch of College students could built and make a game like Allods, or Aion.. though why, those game would just be a rehash thempark..suck, just like Allods.
Without fail, greedy Developers go the cheap route everytime (ie: instancing), because they really are not in love with their game, they just want return on their investment as soon as possible.
Money isn't everything... Kickstarter is the best thing to happen to roleplaying games since TSR..
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
I'm pretty sure you're trying to troll all of us by insisting this matters. At all.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
No. You're focused on just the loading of assets part, which, granted, could be done several other ways. But you are forgetting the part how servers handle the players. Usually, one server handles one area/zone and the players in them. Near the borders two servers have to "juggle" player data so that you can see other players past the border. There was a fancy word for this, but I forget what it was.
Like someone else already told you. Vanguard is open world, but it is zoned. Just like any other game. Doesn't matter if you call them chunks. Doesn't matter if there's a mountainside there or not. They're zones.
Whatever you've been telling yourself, Making instances is largely a design decision. There are a number of gameplay reasons why a developer would want to implement instances. Also, the performance is better. The servers are cheaper, yes, but money is far from being the only deciding factor here.
To think its just pure laziness or greed is ludicrous. Tinfoil-hattery at its worst. You have no sensible argument supporting your claim.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Yup...
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky