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BSC Stealth Speculation

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Comments

  • Niix_OzekNiix_Ozek Calgary, ABPosts: 397Member
    Lol what
    You are taking some absurd thinking to all my posts
    Look
    If I hit you over the head with a sword you're dead. Not in a fantasy game you arnt and shouldn't be, my comments are referring to just because you hit someone from a certain position they get stunned or snared or bleed... This doesn't make any sense at all does it? No it doesn't but its a game and it doesn't have to, just like stealth... Why can someone stealth when no ones around and they arnt in combat ? Who cares?
    Call it whatever the fuck you need to but it's done in a magical world that is make believe lol

    You need to stop beating youself in te face with your "literal" stick an realize the stupidity of your reasoning why invisible stealth shouldn't be allowed

    As for your opinion of wanting a system where you have don't stealth at the push of a button that's fine everyone is entitled to that
    But don't talk shit about other people's opinions on it because "it doesn't make sense to push a button and stealth" because sir it doesn't make sense to push a button and do anything in a video game by your logic
    So hypocritical it's un real

    Ozek - DAOC
    Niix - Other games that sucked

  • TaldierTaldier Camp Hill, PAPosts: 235Member
    Originally posted by Niix_Ozek
    Lol what
    You are taking some absurd thinking to all my posts
    Look
    If I hit you over the head with a sword you're dead. Not in a fantasy game you arnt and shouldn't be, my comments are referring to just because you hit someone from a certain position they get stunned or snared or bleed... This doesn't make any sense at all does it? No it doesn't but its a game and it doesn't have to, just like stealth... Why can someone stealth when no ones around and they arnt in combat ? Who cares?
    Call it whatever the fuck you need to but it's done in a magical world that is make believe lol

    You need to stop beating youself in te face with your "literal" stick an realize the stupidity of your reasoning why invisible stealth shouldn't be allowed

    As for your opinion of wanting a system where you have don't stealth at the push of a button that's fine everyone is entitled to that
    But don't talk shit about other people's opinions on it because "it doesn't make sense to push a button and stealth" because sir it doesn't make sense to push a button and do anything in a video game by your logic
    So hypocritical it's un real

     

    Believe it or not, being hit once with a sword doesnt automatically kill you, especially if you are wearing armor.  The human body can take quite a bit of punishment when adrenaline is pumping through you.  And getting hit with the flat of the blade or bashed in the face with a shield will certainly stun you.

     

    Everything that you are saying doesnt make sense actually makes perfect sense.  You cut someone in the right way to nick an artery and they will start to bleed out.  You slice their hamstring and they'll be limping.  That all makes perfect sense.

     

    Being able to stand clearly in view of someone with no cover to hide behind and still be invisible?  Nope, that doesnt make sense.  You cant make it make sense.  And you cant claim its magic because every single game that does it claims very clearly that it is not magic.  I'm just hiding.  So give me a mechanic that reasonably represents hiding and sneaking up on people.

  • Niix_OzekNiix_Ozek Calgary, ABPosts: 397Member
    When you cut someone's hamstring they will lump until they die, not 10 seconds
    Jesus man you need to read wtf I'm saying lol or take some time and go outside

    You're spewing non sense with every breath, standing in front of someone and can't see them in a magical fantasy game doesn't make sense, but everything else that goes with it does? Lol get over yourself lol

    Ozek - DAOC
    Niix - Other games that sucked

  • TaldierTaldier Camp Hill, PAPosts: 235Member
    Originally posted by Niix_Ozek
    When you cut someone's hamstring they will lump until they die, not 10 seconds
    Jesus man you need to read wtf I'm saying lol or take some time and go outside

    You're spewing non sense with every breath, standing in front of someone and can't see them in a magical fantasy game doesn't make sense, but everything else that goes with it does? Lol get over yourself lol

    Magic is irrelevant when we're talking about something that is very explicitly not being done using magic.

     

    Also, magic is not just a free excuse for everything.  You have to at least put in the effort to explain how the magic works.

     

    How hard is that to understand?

     

    Mechanics attempt to best approximate what they are trying to represent.  Obviously we cant just have people die instantly.  But then we have magical healing  Yes healing is magical, and its magic that is actually explained within the games that use healing magic.

     

    The regular old "stealth" mechanics do not even begin to approximate how a stealthy assassin would act.  Pretty much the exact opposite in fact since youre encouraged to get to your target quickly instead of using cover.

  • redcappredcapp brook, NYPosts: 722Member

    The whole 'magic' explanation is a moot point anyway, ridiculous analogies aside. 

    The important thing is coming up with *gameplay mechanics* that work, are fair and interesting, and make for improved interactions between players.  The status quo is pretty lacking, and I think most would agree.  It does make sense to make stealth somewhat more difficult to achieve, while making the rewards for doing so greater. 

  • Niix_OzekNiix_Ozek Calgary, ABPosts: 397Member
    Originally posted by Taldier
    Originally posted by Niix_Ozek
    When you cut someone's hamstring they will lump until they die, not 10 seconds
    Jesus man you need to read wtf I'm saying lol or take some time and go outside

    You're spewing non sense with every breath, standing in front of someone and can't see them in a magical fantasy game doesn't make sense, but everything else that goes with it does? Lol get over yourself lol

    Magic is irrelevant when we're talking about something that is very explicitly not being done using magic.

     

    Also, magic is not just a free excuse for everything.  You have to at least put in the effort to explain how the magic works.

     

    How hard is that to understand?

     

    Mechanics attempt to best approximate what they are trying to represent.  Obviously we cant just have people die instantly.  But then we have magical healing  Yes healing is magical, and its magic that is actually explained within the games that use healing magic.

     

    The regular old "stealth" mechanics do not even begin to approximate how a stealthy assassin would act.  Pretty much the exact opposite in fact since youre encouraged to get to your target quickly instead of using cover.

    I don't understand how you think stealth has been explained in previous MMO's where it's worked just fine, so enlighten me?

    I don't  understand why the developers can't say "Assassins have the magical ability to stealth" and that be enough? Because from games i've played that's the only explaination I was given, and it wasn't a problem ... or was it for you? i'm confused now...

    HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW what a stealthy assassin in a fantasy world would act? OMG this is the problem lol.... this isn't fcking real life, you have healers and mages casting spells and shit.... it's a DIFFERENT FUCKING WORLD get over it lol holy crap. This has gotten way too nerdy jesus..

     

    Why the hell can't people just make a game that's fun to play and you enjoy it? Every game i've played some things didn't make sense, but it worked? some didn't work? who cares? it's about balancing a combat system around abilities and spells to make the interaction and combat between players fun and enjoyable for everyone ( Even those wanting to play stealth characters )...

    Ozek - DAOC
    Niix - Other games that sucked

  • meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Niix_Ozek

    Why the hell can't people just make a game that's fun to play and you enjoy it? Every game i've played some things didn't make sense, but it worked? some didn't work? who cares? it's about balancing a combat system around abilities and spells to make the interaction and combat between players fun and enjoyable for everyone ( Even those wanting to play stealth characters )...

    That is such a great point and applies to basically any aspect of CU not just stealth. Add realism or pseudo-realism when it makes the game more fun. When it makes the game more tedious or less fun, don't do it.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • KappenWizKappenWiz Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 162Member
    Originally posted by redcapp

    The whole 'magic' explanation is a moot point anyway, ridiculous analogies aside. 

    The important thing is coming up with *gameplay mechanics* that work, are fair and interesting, and make for improved interactions between players.  The status quo is pretty lacking, and I think most would agree.  It does make sense to make stealth somewhat more difficult to achieve, while making the rewards for doing so greater. 

    QFT.

    You can create pitfalls trying to "solve" things people complain about in other systems. Tweaking permanent stealth is a better solution than some of the things I've seen here. I didn't particularly care for WAR's stealth system, as it made playing more binary somehow. You knew you had 30 seconds to be invisible, so it was either stealth in and attack or fight first and stealth out as escape. That was the majority of the gameplay for stealthers.

     

  • TumblebutzTumblebutz Henderson, NVPosts: 322Member
    Originally posted by redcapp

    The whole 'magic' explanation is a moot point anyway, ridiculous analogies aside. 

    The important thing is coming up with *gameplay mechanics* that work, are fair and interesting, and make for improved interactions between players.  The status quo is pretty lacking, and I think most would agree.  It does make sense to make stealth somewhat more difficult to achieve, while making the rewards for doing so greater. 

    This.

    Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival

    RED IS DEAD!

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon

    I'm not joking, I keep thinking, what are stealthers gonna hang glide past the lines to the healers and I lol, then think hmm that kinda BSC...

    Maybe it's like Max Payne bullet time stuff.

  • VargurVargur OsloPosts: 143Member

    The issue that rises if stealth is depending upon terrain/weather/daylight/etc. is that the zones has to be designed with this in mind. Having large, open areas like OF Emain aka golf course would render assassins ineffective in most larger battles. Archers can to a certain degree shoot "from the tree line" and remain somewhat effective, but assassins would have no way to close on their targets. This will probably reduce the stealthers to a shadow war of their own, separate from RvR, and I don't think many stealthers prefer that.

    Giving a camoflage skill to all classes will have to impact the dps of casters who employs it, or complaints will be the same that were launched against archers in DAoC.

    A third alternative is for everyone to run around in first-person-view which could give assassins the opportunity to sneak into the rear of the enemy, but I doubt people want that scenario.

     

    My take is that this discussion would be much more fruitful if people present their views on stealth in a more complete way. If you think that invisibility is bad, offer alterntives for how stealthers can remain competitive and fun to play. If you think a leap/charge ability would be a good substitute, present your case.

    Just saying you don't like something isn't productive, backing it up with some alternatives could be.

  • naezgulnaezgul Homer Glen, ILPosts: 374Member
    Originally posted by Vargur

    The issue that rises if stealth is depending upon terrain/weather/daylight/etc. is that the zones has to be designed with this in mind. Having large, open areas like OF Emain aka golf course would render assassins ineffective in most larger battles. Archers can to a certain degree shoot "from the tree line" and remain somewhat effective, but assassins would have no way to close on their targets. This will probably reduce the stealthers to a shadow war of their own, separate from RvR, and I don't think many stealthers prefer that.

    Giving a camoflage skill to all classes will have to impact the dps of casters who employs it, or complaints will be the same that were launched against archers in DAoC.

    A third alternative is for everyone to run around in first-person-view which could give assassins the opportunity to sneak into the rear of the enemy, but I doubt people want that scenario.

     

    My take is that this discussion would be much more fruitful if people present their views on stealth in a more complete way. If you think that invisibility is bad, offer alterntives for how stealthers can remain competitive and fun to play. If you think a leap/charge ability would be a good substitute, present your case.

    Just saying you don't like something isn't productive, backing it up with some alternatives could be.

    Yes!

    they have their opportunities cut down. They will have to wait for weather, fog, or darkness in those areas

    i play mostly solo stealth and would gladly have that downside

  • kaltahnkaltahn Virginia Beach, VAPosts: 31Member
    Speculation:  Only the pure crafter classes get Stealth.
  • FoggyeFoggye Portland, ORPosts: 95Member
    Originally posted by Foggye

    Be more interesting if it was more stylized with the lore.  Then again, maybe it is, considering his BSC idea on the matter is being bundled with the game lore.  With that, my guess is that it has something to do the Veil itself.  Perhaps the "stealth" class won't necessarily stealth/turn invis, but step into the Veil instead.  Here your in a copy of the world, but crueler.  Blurry vision, violent storms.

     

    With that, you could probably only be able to make out shapes what want happens in the real world.  Meaning, you'd have to reappear to fathom if they're friendly or not.  Also while in the Veil, you'll be completely visible not only to other players with the ability but to the actual denizens of the Veil.  Meaning that actual positioning is  important to reappearing, walking into Veil storms and not being detected by deadly creatures and other Veilsteppers.  This would still allow for the stealth metagame.

    Called it!  Well.. sorta.

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