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Cash Shops Ruined MMO's

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  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by GrumpyMel2
     

    The problem here is that if it is TOO MUCH fun to play for free....then they are not making a proffit since no one is going to bother to pay for something that you can get for free.

     

    Don't talk like everyone's fun is the same. For the whales, they need teh best stuff to have fun .. i don't. So it is a perfect win-win .. they can pay .. and i can play for free.

    Don't think that a f2P game needs everyone to pay. It is proven that you only needs some whales.

  • PhelcherPhelcher Boston, MAPosts: 1,053Member

     

     

    Who reeally cares about a MMO..?  Or what a cash shop does to a MMO..?

     

    MMO are a dime a dozen and at least 30 will come out this year...  unfortunatley, we are here @ MMORPG and only a few MMORPG will be comming out this year... 

    "No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


    -Nariusseldon

  • PhelcherPhelcher Boston, MAPosts: 1,053Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    @ayulin

    I am not, nor have I ever complained about a game being too slow.  I have complained about these in the game done to deliberately make the game slower in order to get you to stay longer.  These things were there for that reason.

    Old games did have systems that artificially and unneccessarily inflated the time it took to do things.  In many old games you literally had to wait to play.  Waiting for the boat for 20 minutes followed by a 20 minute ride – unnecessary time sink.  10 minutes of sitting medding looking at a spell book, unnecessary time sink.  Hell levels, completely unnecessary time sink.  They were done to extend your time, that’s it.  This is also why they were taken out, devs realized they were stupid. 

    So the devs agree with me.  They took those things out of their games.

    I do understand your view.  I do not agree with it.  Some MMO’s were meant for long term play, some were not.  The classic ones we played (EQ, UO, DAOC…) were, those were not the first nor the only MMO’s. 

    F2P MMO’s with a cs have been around since the very beginning of MMO’s and before MMORPG.

    I am not “conflating how I’d like the game to be vs how the game should be”  I’m stating how it actually was.  I choose whether to play it or not. 

    Whether you believe it or not, many things in old games were done “just to make you play longer” and devs got rid of them.

    CS games have to be fun first.  The only way the devs get any money is if the game is fun enough.  A p2p game has your money before you even step foot in the game.

    IMO there are more pot holes and inconveniences in most p2p games, than in the newer and better f2p games. 

    I don’t care how long a game takes to play or finish (if it does), that doesn’t concern me.  I’m more interested in if it is fun at that moment I am playing, and once again p2p has just as many potholes and inconveniences for the same reasons as f2p. 

     

    Wiating for a boat is playing the game... because you could swim, or take another route...  , you were not forced to wait... but you did, because the boat (at the time you waited for it) was the fasted mode of travel you character had.

     

    Those are the things missing from games today and everything is arcade now. You seem to like arcadse games and don't care about being in a real world staking your claim. You want to be within a themepark, gaining points to show-off your shinny Lobby-room armor.  Right...?

     

    "No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


    -Nariusseldon

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Phelcher
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    @ayulin

    I am not, nor have I ever complained about a game being too slow.  I have complained about these in the game done to deliberately make the game slower in order to get you to stay longer.  These things were there for that reason.

    Old games did have systems that artificially and unneccessarily inflated the time it took to do things.  In many old games you literally had to wait to play.  Waiting for the boat for 20 minutes followed by a 20 minute ride – unnecessary time sink.  10 minutes of sitting medding looking at a spell book, unnecessary time sink.  Hell levels, completely unnecessary time sink.  They were done to extend your time, that’s it.  This is also why they were taken out, devs realized they were stupid. 

    So the devs agree with me.  They took those things out of their games.

    I do understand your view.  I do not agree with it.  Some MMO’s were meant for long term play, some were not.  The classic ones we played (EQ, UO, DAOC…) were, those were not the first nor the only MMO’s. 

    F2P MMO’s with a cs have been around since the very beginning of MMO’s and before MMORPG.

    I am not “conflating how I’d like the game to be vs how the game should be”  I’m stating how it actually was.  I choose whether to play it or not. 

    Whether you believe it or not, many things in old games were done “just to make you play longer” and devs got rid of them.

    CS games have to be fun first.  The only way the devs get any money is if the game is fun enough.  A p2p game has your money before you even step foot in the game.

    IMO there are more pot holes and inconveniences in most p2p games, than in the newer and better f2p games. 

    I don’t care how long a game takes to play or finish (if it does), that doesn’t concern me.  I’m more interested in if it is fun at that moment I am playing, and once again p2p has just as many potholes and inconveniences for the same reasons as f2p. 

     

    Wiating for a boat is playing the game... because you could swim, or take another route...  , you were not forced to wait... but you did, because the boat (at the time you waited for it) was the fasted mode of travel you character had.

     

    Those are the things missing from games today and everything is arcade now. You seem to like arcadse games and don't care about being in a real world staking your claim. You want to be within a themepark, gaining points to show-off your shinny Lobby-room armor.  Right...?

     

    Well then we disagree.  IMO waiting for a boat is not playing the game, it is waiting. 

    Please don't make assumptions about me.  Most of the games I play are sandboxy style.  Currently I'm playing Istaria. 

    I don't like waiting to play the game.  I would like something to do while I'm in game.  Waiting is not playing, it is waiting.

    Swimming may technically be playing.  But swimming in the same direction for 30 minutes not doing anything but swimming, is IMO barely playing the game. 

    Non-gameplay activities should stay out of games. 

    edit - or at the least have those activities be entirely optional.  And I do think swimming in the same direction with nothing else happening (meaning no interesting decisions or decisions at all) to be non gameplay. 

    edit - hmm I don't think I've even played a lobby game longer than a day or two, and have never actually stood around for someone to admire my armor.  I've actually never even gotten to high enough gameplay to get great armor.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by Phelcher
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    @ayulin

    I am not, nor have I ever complained about a game being too slow.  I have complained about these in the game done to deliberately make the game slower in order to get you to stay longer.  These things were there for that reason.

    Old games did have systems that artificially and unneccessarily inflated the time it took to do things.  In many old games you literally had to wait to play.  Waiting for the boat for 20 minutes followed by a 20 minute ride – unnecessary time sink.  10 minutes of sitting medding looking at a spell book, unnecessary time sink.  Hell levels, completely unnecessary time sink.  They were done to extend your time, that’s it.  This is also why they were taken out, devs realized they were stupid. 

    So the devs agree with me.  They took those things out of their games.

    I do understand your view.  I do not agree with it.  Some MMO’s were meant for long term play, some were not.  The classic ones we played (EQ, UO, DAOC…) were, those were not the first nor the only MMO’s. 

    F2P MMO’s with a cs have been around since the very beginning of MMO’s and before MMORPG.

    I am not “conflating how I’d like the game to be vs how the game should be”  I’m stating how it actually was.  I choose whether to play it or not. 

    Whether you believe it or not, many things in old games were done “just to make you play longer” and devs got rid of them.

    CS games have to be fun first.  The only way the devs get any money is if the game is fun enough.  A p2p game has your money before you even step foot in the game.

    IMO there are more pot holes and inconveniences in most p2p games, than in the newer and better f2p games. 

    I don’t care how long a game takes to play or finish (if it does), that doesn’t concern me.  I’m more interested in if it is fun at that moment I am playing, and once again p2p has just as many potholes and inconveniences for the same reasons as f2p. 

     

    Wiating for a boat is playing the game... because you could swim, or take another route...  , you were not forced to wait... but you did, because the boat (at the time you waited for it) was the fasted mode of travel you character had.

     

    Those are the things missing from games today and everything is arcade now. You seem to like arcadse games and don't care about being in a real world staking your claim. You want to be within a themepark, gaining points to show-off your shinny Lobby-room armor.  Right...?

     

    Well then we disagree.  IMO waiting for a boat is not playing the game, it is waiting. 

    Please don't make assumptions about me.  Most of the games I play are sandboxy style.  Currently I'm playing Istaria. 

    I don't like waiting to play the game.  I would like something to do while I'm in game.  Waiting is not playing, it is waiting.

    Swimming may technically be playing.  But swimming in the same direction for 30 minutes not doing anything but swimming, is IMO barely playing the game. 

    Non-gameplay activities should stay out of games. 

    edit - or at the least have those activities be entirely optional.  And I do think swimming in the same direction with nothing else happening (meaning no interesting decisions or decisions at all) to be non gameplay. 

    It really does not matter .. whether you call waiting for a boat "playing a game" or "waiting" (which is what the word means).

    It is no fun to me and i am glad this kind of no-fun gameplay is no longer in most MMOs.

    And if someone find waiting for a boat in a game fun .. well ... he can vote with his wallet. I highly doubt many will find waiting fun. And yes, these things are missing from games .. THANK GOD.

  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,145Member Uncommon
    "Free to play" (that "" have purpose here) have ruined quality gaming. Well, not that every sub based was good, many were total fail, true, .... but F2P .... agrrrhh....
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by daltanious
    "Free to play" (that "" have purpose here) have ruined quality gaming. Well, not that every sub based was good, many were total fail, true, .... but F2P .... agrrrhh....

    nah .. F2P has made MMO worthwhile. So many free fun games, so little time.

  • Beatnik59Beatnik59 Chicago, ILPosts: 2,238Member Uncommon

    There was a time when the industry gave us a completed game in exchange for money (software).

    Then they gave us a broken game in exchange for money, which they would fix later (software + downloadable patch).

    Then they rented us complete games for money up front and a fee each month (software + subscription).

    Then they rented us an incomplete game for money, which we would have to complete with more money (software + expansions).

    Then they gave away the crappy games for free, which we would have to uncrappify by spending money (cash store).

    These days, however, they don't even bother to sell or rent games to us.  They are only capable of giving us promises and ideas of good games, which--if all goes well--they might give us, if we pony up enough dough (kickstarter).

     

    __________________________
    "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
    --Arcken

    "...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
    --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

    "It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
    --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Beatnik59

    There was a time when the industry gave us a completed game in exchange for money (software).

    Then they gave us a broken game in exchange for money, which they would fix later (software + downloadable patch).

    Then they rented us complete games for money up front and a fee each month (software + subscription).

    Then they rented us an incomplete game for money, which we would have to complete with more money (software + expansions).

    Then they gave away the crappy games for free, which we would have to uncrappify by spending money (cash store).

    These days, however, they don't even bother to sell or rent games to us.  They are only capable of giving us promises and ideas of good games, which--if all goes well--they might give us, if we pony up enough dough (kickstarter).

     

    Every game i played is not crappy to me. Otherwise, why would i spend more than 5 min on it?

  • ArclanArclan Chicago, ILPosts: 1,494Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    ... I don't like waiting...


    Waiting gives you time to admire the scenery, talk to an NPC, socialize with strangers, friends, guildmates, or in the worldchannel. If none of these appeal to you, and you abhor waiting, then I would argue MMOs and RPGs and certainly MMORPGs are not for you.

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Arclan

     


    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    ... I don't like waiting...

     


    Waiting gives you time to admire the scenery, talk to an NPC, socialize with strangers, friends, guildmates, or in the worldchannel. If none of these appeal to you, and you abhor waiting, then I would argue MMOs and RPGs and certainly MMORPGs are not for you.

    "certainly MMORPGs are not for you" .. sure. Like UO & EQ. Like those has force waiting.

    And there are a lot of MMORPG that has little waiting. Those are for me.

    BTW, waiting FORCE me to wait. If i want to admire the scenary, sociailize with guildies, and what-not, i do it whatever i like. I don't want the game forces me to do it at its own schedule.

     

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Arclan

     


    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    ... I don't like waiting...

     


    Waiting gives you time to admire the scenery, talk to an NPC, socialize with strangers, friends, guildmates, or in the worldchannel. If none of these appeal to you, and you abhor waiting, then I would argue MMOs and RPGs and certainly MMORPGs are not for you.

     I can do all that on my own.  I don't need structured downtime for that.

    I do those things quite often, whenever I want.  It is not and should not be imposed IMO.  And apparently both the new and old devs agree with me because that forced downtime is not in new games and was taken out of old games. 

    Doing those activities and a forced 10-20 minute wait to play the game are very very different things.

     

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • BossalinieBossalinie Hattiesburg, MSPosts: 683Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Arclan

     


    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    ... I don't like waiting...

     


    Waiting gives you time to admire the scenery, talk to an NPC, socialize with strangers, friends, guildmates, or in the worldchannel. If none of these appeal to you, and you abhor waiting, then I would argue MMOs and RPGs and certainly MMORPGs are not for you.

    "certainly MMORPGs are not for you" .. sure. Like UO & EQ. Like those has force waiting.

    And there are a lot of MMORPG that has little waiting. Those are for me.

    BTW, waiting FORCE me to wait. If i want to admire the scenary, sociailize with guildies, and what-not, i do it whatever i like. I don't want the game forces me to do it at its own schedule.

     

    This. It's like they don't realize that what they want is to be subliminally told what to do.

  • monstermmomonstermmo Glendale, CAPosts: 1,062Member

    I agree with the title but i don't agree with the original post.

    Title: when it comes to subscription based games a cash shop is absolute nonsense. However they make sense in a free to play game.

    Argument from OP: You have to play a game for a week to earn something? oh no! I see nothing wrong with that at all. When you enjoy a game enough to play it that much it is a non issue. If you don't enjoy the game enough to play it like that it's just too bad.

     

    Funny about Far Cry 3 since you do have to spend a ton of extra time to get yourself equipped with gear that allows you to carry more than one gun, wallets to hold more money and other tedious tasks you need to do in order to fully upgrade yourself. It doesn't take a week but it's not a free to play game either. Also while not everybody will enjoy doing these tasks, i didn't like it at first, it's not exactly necessary to have all the extra's. They are just very convenient and do actually offer more content in a sense.

    Jeremiah 8:21 I weep for the hurt of my people; I stand amazed, silent, dumb with grief.
    Join me on Raptr Steam Facebook Twitter Gameverse

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Bossalinie
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Arclan

     


    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    ... I don't like waiting...

     


    Waiting gives you time to admire the scenery, talk to an NPC, socialize with strangers, friends, guildmates, or in the worldchannel. If none of these appeal to you, and you abhor waiting, then I would argue MMOs and RPGs and certainly MMORPGs are not for you.

    "certainly MMORPGs are not for you" .. sure. Like UO & EQ. Like those has force waiting.

    And there are a lot of MMORPG that has little waiting. Those are for me.

    BTW, waiting FORCE me to wait. If i want to admire the scenary, sociailize with guildies, and what-not, i do it whatever i like. I don't want the game forces me to do it at its own schedule.

     

    This. It's like they don't realize that what they want is to be subliminally told what to do.

    Exactly. In fact, it is quite often i stop playing and chat with guildies (at least when i was still playing WOW). It is silly to think that waiting adds anything to that. Talk is talk. It is BETTER when i have something to say, instead of when there is nothing else to do.

     

  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,145Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by daltanious
    "Free to play" (that "" have purpose here) have ruined quality gaming. Well, not that every sub based was good, many were total fail, true, .... but F2P .... agrrrhh....

    nah .. F2P has made MMO worthwhile. So many free fun games, so little time.

    And you would run company where you and all your employees work for free for all of the cheap people of the world?

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member
    Originally posted by maplestone

    Using a cash shop to accelerate your progress in a game is bit like getting married because dating just isn't fun any more.

    Playing cash shop game without spending cash is like dating a girfl for 50 years and getting married at 80 years old.  Because it take that long to get anything done.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by daltanious
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by daltanious
    "Free to play" (that "" have purpose here) have ruined quality gaming. Well, not that every sub based was good, many were total fail, true, .... but F2P .... agrrrhh....

    nah .. F2P has made MMO worthwhile. So many free fun games, so little time.

    And you would run company where you and all your employees work for free for all of the cheap people of the world?

    No. But i would run a company where I and all my employees work for free for MOST of the cheap people of the world, and SOME of the whales who pays us through the roof.

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