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KS and consumer behavior / Questions and Theories / Camelot Unchained
Laeesh
Member UncommonPosts: 95
Hey folks,
as you see this is my first post in this forum, i usually just read these forum´s. I think my written english is not that great, but i have a topic in mind that i need to express and to think with you about.
A friend and i are following the path of CU till sec one and are very loaded because of the KS kampagne. We just talk and discuss a lot about the way the KS kampagne was started (and is handled) and the concept work before the kampagne hit the start buzzer.
I want to discuss the backer motivation not only towards CU but KS in common. What is your motivation or "spark" that makes you donate ? And does CU take the right path to produce that "spark" or is it a path into exile for CU ?
CSE delivered their idea of CU mainly through the Found. Prin. I personally think this is a very good way to prepare a KS kampagne, because i think KS is mainly for PREPARING a game. This means, point out an idea (the idea is CU) and point out your (CSE) motivation. The motivation is the "path" the game will take. The idea is the "guy" (CU) who takes that path with all his attitudes. (PvP only, Crafting and housing) These "attitudes" and the motivation is explained in all the FP. Additionally there are artworks that give a HINT (JUST A HINT) what this "guy" could look like or most likely will look like.
So if these facts make you group up with that guy called Camelot Unchained and go down (his / her political correctness =D) path you already donated money.
So currently i read a lot (and think about it myself) about "Nothing to see (graphics etc.) Is that really needed for KS ? CSE got ideas (great ones) and it´s these ideas that have to be funded. If you need some graphic´s to "spark" your pledge what makes you feel a diffrence between "idea´s" and "graphics" ?
There are other KS project´s that have a "sketched" the game, theses skteches are videos and screenshot´s. Sketches are minusdetailed visualized forms of idea´s in my opinion. So actually you see less then a very short sparkle of the "game". These´s graphics are not high resolution or high quality. I will use Shroud of the Avatar as an example here, because a discussion with my friend made me open this thread. I watched that movie, a guy on a cemetery slap´s some minusfleshed humans and run´s arround and so on. Would a video on the same level of "quality" make you donate money more quickly ? A guy slapin some creatures on low quality graphic´s ?
As a result you know it already, i don´t need a basic version of the GAME. I need a detailed IDEA and MOTIVATION (behind the idea) to give my pledge the worth it deservers. Additionally a pre-prepared game would take away influence from the community while the game start´s to be produced, that´s something i dont wanna miss as well. So these are my motivations behind my pledge... and just to as a conclusion --> my motivation behind is build on an idea and on a motivation that fits my personal interests. Is your motivation build of idea and motivation as well ? Or do you need idea, motivation and some prebuild stuff for the eyes ? And why do you need it and what does these graphic´s actually tell you about the idea or game ? (reminder --> bad graphic´s gameplay everybody knows its just for the sake of "visuals" to show)
Important end note. My friend and me honestly support this game by heart. When we first read the FP it was like "this is visualized holy grail of PvP game" we need it now instantly so bad. We fully support the honest behavior CSE delivers. To take the risk, take the flame, the mock every shit throwing at them to produce the game they want to create with the community on a communicative level never seen before. MJ´s talkin to us the consumers himself, his whole team Andrew as well cant name them all. Keep stuff comin and we wish you the very best and we so god damn pray that this game will actually happen so we can beat the crap out of each other so hard... So thanks for recultivate our believe into courage (the buisness way) !
so end of post, i know my thought´s are unorganized and i bet it´s hard to read, but i hope you can cut out the essence of my thought´s and the question behind it and PLZ it´s my first post dont slay me on my first thread... =D
Hopefully this will be an interesting conversation and bring´s up some peoples concerns and maybe even we can weaken them by encouraging them through simply sharing our concern´s together as a strong community that is build BEFORE the game takes place. 
Have a nice day, Laeesh
*Edit* well fuck it´s my second post, go ahead you can beat me like one of your french girls =D
*DISCLAIMER*
*IMPORTANT* We discuss "pledging" NOT BUYING a game. BIG DIFFRENCE! No money is charged till project is succ. funded! ON Thursday May 2, 11:56am EDT. (or little bit later dont know about bank stuff but just after that moment is hit) your account will be charged IF CU makes it up to 2 mio. before the time for funding ends ! (THIS info cant be stressed enough)
This is my personal opinion, so plz discuss it dont say "it´s wrong" because you dont share it. (jeah im naive this is INTERNET we slay everybody who shows weakness here, because we dont need to fear consequences)
Comments
I think I get what you are saying, and I agree. The ideas and the promise of a game even half of what it is purporting to be is enough for me to take a gamble on (and a very affordable one at that, if that was my choice, which it's not.) Almost makes it more exciting.
Also, welcome to the world of posting here. The ride is currently bumpier than normal, so I hope you brought a helmet. But glad to have you here nonetheless
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt
hehe thanks for the kind word´s
I´ll find shelter if needed!
For what you mentioned. I don´t unterstand MJ / CSE´s expressions as "promises" just to ourself, i´m sure these guys "promise" something themselves (making the game they want) taking the risk of catchin so much flame and mock, "take weight" with their way mentally and we as the community behind are able to support them with contructive critism. as well with out idea´s and everything we can afford to give them the help they need.
In some strange way, we are invovled in CU´s production on a not yet known level, we mustnt leave this chance behind to take this opportunity to be part of this process. There is much hate for big publishers out there, i dont need to mention one specif. because everyone of them has their flaws and the guys from CSE take the risk to NOT hide behind a desk and a big name. They are comrades and depend on us as we do on them because they have the idea, motivation and tool´s to give us what we want.
Don´t think i think about this a not objective way, they will haverst what they seed. On the other side, we will never haverst anything if we dont seed anything at all! And the weather conditions arround CSE are well to take the chance =D
Talkin in pictures cheesy style, have a seat!
god sorry but have to mention this in a sep. post.
Just a short one. Publishers buy into an idea, they don´t got. Then give the poor guy with "no" money to produce now "his" idea (actually he sold it 50%). So actually publishers give them a loan to be able to produce his idea,... as a result the publisher benefit´s from anothers one mind just because they got the money to make it bigger (or make it distorted version of it).
Dont get me wrong, i don´t think publishers are pure evil in common... but they got a big responsibilty to take hand on ones creative ideas and get involved to make these idea´s become reality.
This is not offtopic, because it´s vital part in the mind of this consumer (me) It influences my motivation to buy (PLEDGE) something.
I healed Mistwraith and all I got was this stupid tee-shirt!
I pledged because it has a chance to be a great game. If it's done correctly it's something I can see myself actually playing for a long time such as Asheron's Call and DAoC. I love RVR and the crafting/building also has me very interested.
It surely can't be any worse than SW:TOR, GW2 or any of the other games I've shelved.. Hopefully it will be funded and we can find out.
"Can't be any worse?" hmm - I think many of those are decent games and you cannot compare the games and CU will be only PvP and the others have influences of PvE. It is like comparing apples and oranges - but keep trying.
hmm - i think it ´s more like a sweeter red apple (PvE/PvP) and a green apple (PvP). Like always sweet thing´s are liked by many many people, white the green apple has this "special" flavor that just pleasures a maybe smaller group of people.
As a result you have to look even closer, because it´s more difficult to see what´s makes the sweeter one´s favorable and what´s so special about the green "spicy" one´s and this is a matter of own opinion and fondnesses.
*EDIT* and please, don´t be so black and white, give arguement´s in detail to draw us a picture of your opinion
and plz don´t get to far away from the original topic. It´s more meant to express your opinion and have look at those colorful "mindmap" not to point a finger on one´s opinion and if we do that the way i explained plz 
Huh? Was just pointing out that I couldn't dislike it any more than I did SW:TOR or GW2. Maybe I worded it badly.
Well, oft times, in the age of the internet, it seems we all word things badly. I do it all the time - I am never angry like people think - more oft than not I am surprised or flummoxed by reactions.
The problem being with CU right now is we don't know how the game will play as it is only descriptions now. I will give Neverwinter as an example. I listened to the descriptions and watched the in game videos posted and thought it would be a decent game to try. Played a beta and it was nothing like described or in game videos (playing perspective is a big thing). It turned out to be the exact opposite of what I was looking for.
In GW2, I wish you could have more then one skill template saved and you can't. I could go on with examples. The point being, until you actually are hands on with a game, one doesn't know.
is there a bug ? i can´t see the quote ? O.o *dumb*
There is one "little" thing that has to be considered. You are using Neverwinter as an example. If we compare the "status" of Neverwinter and CU we can´t "compare" both because of it´s different "status". CU is on KS. CU is (as you said) "just" an idea so far, Neverwinter aleady took wayyy more step´s then CU has. So as a result, we actually could compare CU only to another MMORPG that is on the same "level" CU is. Don´t you think ? (honest question no offense) I´m so bad at typing my thought´s, when i read it, it read´s so damn "onrganized" haha, maybe it´s just english is not my native language, so pls considered that =D.
*edit* it´s like i would look at the blueprint of a toy and you are looking at the "body shell" of a toy (a toy that is more finished then my blueprint obiously) (Neverwinter Beta) can´t explain it any better. (Both are toy´s but in different level´s of progression? haha sry)
*edit2* no matter what, you are right saying "it is harder to say if CU can deliver what *one´s peronal fondnesses´s* like or not BECAUSE it´s in such an early stage. So it´s up to the person to think and read and then make the conclusion. (that´s what´s this thread about by topic =D)
Before I pledge, I need to evaluate at least two main factors. One is whether the finished product is one that I think I'll enjoy. The second is whether I have confidence that the developer will deliver the product in an acceptable state and within a reasonable time. If both of those seem good, then they've usually got my pledge. I keep hearing how KS is a place for ideas and a project doesn't need to be more than an idea to get off the ground. That may be so and it's often enough for many people to donate. However, the less a project has to actually show, the less an average consumer will have confidence in it.
We live in a world full of great ideas and lackluster implementation; one where many a promising game on paper turns out to be horribly broken at launch. I'm not saying that it will happen with CU but people should stop saying that those who don't want to donate because the idea isn't fleshed out enough just "don't understand Kickstarter". If it's perfectly reasonable to donate to CU at this stage of development, it's also perfectly reasonable simply to abstain as well. I'm on the fence-- I personally love the idea of having meaningful group dynamics and employing large-scale strategy in PvP but I don't know nearly enough about the actual gameplay to make me pledge.
very nice post! Finally the topic is hit. First of all:
"people shout stop saying that those who don´t want to donate because the idea isn´t fleshed ou enough just "don´t understand kickstarter"
That´s absolutly right, this is why i opened up this thread. Reading my post´s, did you think i wanted to express that ? That was not my intention. I just want to "activate" exactly what you did in your post. Evaluate what´s important for oneself and you perfectly expressed your reason´s. My "fear" is that people don´t have the "patience" to read into the idea. This is what´s important to me. Find out -> read -> conclusion.
As i mentioned in my OP "visual´s are minusdetailed sketches". Visual´s eventually take something of the "selfeffort" away and make it more comfartable to state something that is not build on the whole "picture" (whole picture = information given of course if they are enough depend´s on one´s personal opinion just right.
"If it's perfectly reasonable to donate to CU at this stage of development, it's also perfectly reasonable simply to abstain as well. I'm on the fence-"
This is your personal conclusion and it is build on your evaluating work and that´s absolutly ok of course, it´s your opinion. My intention with this thread is to make exactly this "evaluating work" coming. The end result "back or not back" is absolutly your thing and that´s just right, but it´s this "thinking and evualting" i want to light up, eventually leading to new backer´s of course, because you will know it that would be nice, but hey if this evalutating end´s up with being on the fence ? absolutly ok! You don´t want to back absolutly ok as well!
It´s not my task to make you pledge, that´s CSE´s and Mark Jacob´s. I just want to keep the "head´s vital" and "thinking"
as usual i hope you can follow my text...
*Edit* " I personally love the idea of having meaningful group dynamics and employing large-scale strategy in PvP but I don't know nearly enough about the actual gameplay to make me pledge."
man i forget about the most important part. This is exactly what´s up really soon! Eventually it will help you decide if backing is reasonable enough that would be great, or if it´s not enough and you dont back. That´s absolutly ok as well, the more important thing is that you have "absorbed" any given information and were able to make the conclusion that this or that project on KS is not what you like to see