10 people are kicking the guy, guess I should too

Sovrath · April 2013

Originally posted by ShakyMo

for the first couple of months play, i never touched a quest, I just worked my way up river taking in anything that popped up on my compass.

But then i started with morrowind, not oblivion or skyrim, so to me thats how you play a tes game.

lol myself as well.

ShakyMo · April 2013

Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Deivos
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by ShakyMo
You level in ps2

If not what are all those upgrades you buy with certs.

I could be worng, never play it. Just read up on it and see lots of info on no levels or level cap. Just battle rank that means very little.

Your baseline functionally stays the same, but through certs you can unlock new items for your character and components to improve your gear/class.

A standout example is the cloaking device for the quad in the game. After I got that I've had fun infiltrating things much more often because people just can't place me easily enough when I'm a transparent blur.

So a gear progression. Cool. Always wondered if a MMO like WoW, ESO, Rift could pull that off. Here is your char, go play the end game. BTW thats all the game has.

yeah its not the same as wow endgame progression though, you dont have a never ending supply of large vertical upgrades that get replaces every few months. Its more a mix of horizontal and vertical progression. One on One a skilled newbie will beat a 6 month veteran. Its a similar power curve to daoc, nothing like as steep as wow, but then youve got the whole horizontal thing too, where the game has 5 classes (well 6 with the MAX), and they have numerous upgrades, but you pick your class every time you respawn, and theres only so many power ups you can equip at one time. So a month or so in you will be very good in one role where as a veteran will have more options, maybe advanced 3 of the classes, with a couple of choices of spec on both.

e.g. I can play several roles pretty well.

An assualt / squad leader / sucide bomber specced light assualt

A defensive, spotter / sniper specced light assualt

A forward assualt, base preparing specced infiltrator (working on a defensive sniper spec for him too)

A mid range medic, that works on both attack and assualt (but i need to work on getting him some heal grenades)

An anti air MAX

A anti vehcile engineer with any vehicle turret, tank mines etc..

Ive also specced the light fighter for my faction the scythe for getting to bases quick and easy landing, with ground clearing weapeons (suits my LA and infiltrator for if im going ahead to hack terminals or plant spawn beacons)

And the vehicle transport - the sunderer for acting as a mobile deployment station and either having a mine guard or acting as a tank ammo resupplier (cant equip both at once)

but i cant do all them at the same time.

It sounds like TESO will have a chunk of horizontal progression at end game too, like you can skill different weapons and stuff, but cant equip them at the same time.

ShakyMo · April 2013

Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Deivos
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
I do, played Ab and midguard was always over populated. The EXp and money boots helped but on my server we were always lots to midguard and zerged to death 3 and sometimes 4 too 1. Took us little less then a year to learn tatics to beat zergs. We started to win as often as they did and in time the war balanced out for the most part. Sometimes outnumbered and sometimes 1 to 1.

WoW was the same thing, Hord was the winners almost always but in time PvP guilds moved to Ally to have more fun. As a real PvPer who likes auto win? I want a fight! Same with Warhammer, in the end it balanced out from what I read but they are down to 2 servers from what I hear lol

I'm forced to ask 'when'.

In the case of Warhammer it has much to do with the fact their population is just small to begin with. Faction bias is hard in that case.

Same can be said for DAoC. When the servers start dwindling and having to get merged is generally when you see an inprovement in faction balance, becise that's the point where there's no longer enough players to be moving around and forming bias.

In WoW it's as I noted got multiple reasons, and it's PvP woes were not cured by players themselves swapping factions as you just claimed. Blizzard enacted a cross server PvP system specifically to address this imbalance issue. It was a strong enough problem that people had to wait around in queues because there simply weren't enough of the opposing faction's players to match the other side.

Going back to DAoC. It's again the notion that maybe your server blanced out. However, not everyone is what you seem to call a 'real PvPer'. The fact you saw zergs (and could beat them with inferior numbers) is rather evidence of that on it's own.

What this ultimately means is what I already said. There is a fair number of people you can trust to play PvP because they want something out of it. Be it gear or a score number. The easiest way to get either of those is not through competition, but to stack the odds in your favor, and that's just what you can expect mobs of people to do (mob mentality, it applies to game worlds too).

In the time I played DAoC I can honestly say that the most balanced server I ever saw was an emulated server, not an official one.

May help in ESO with the fact there is no real PvP gear. You can earn gear buts its equal to what you can get with other types of game play. Also depends how cool the gear looks as well. Maybe Im odd but I never played PvP for a score number. Was always the thrill of the hunt and knowing when I won, was because it was worth fighting for. I like to think Im the norm when it comes to PvPers but again maybe I am wrong.

This is the other feature they borrowed from DAOC - gear equality regardless of playstyle.

Hope they stick to their guns and dont start doing instanced raiding with tiered progression and what not.

ShakyMo · April 2013

Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by baphamet

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Trudge.Because...A) lame easymoders would all choose the current biggest faction.B) because huge zerg guilds would develop making the game lob-sided, as everyone they recruit would end up picking that faction.

judging by the info we have, you don't pick campaigns, they are assigned to you.

you can pick the faction that has overall the most numbers but once you get assigned to a campaign, it may not be the winning faction in that campaign.

you can switch but that is assuming you can then pick the new campaign you would like to join, which i doubt.

not only that but campaigns end, not sure how that works exactly but i would assume they get balanced once the new campaigns begin.

yes, the downside to that is there is no rivalries or faction pride but it does make it more balanced in theory.

hopefully they at least add a ranking system of some sort and once certain top end guilds assert their dominance, they get paired with other top end guilds from the other factions, which could build some decent rivalries.

with the way they are doing it it can be done.

My opinion of campaigns and the megaserver is that they spent way too much time thinking about what happens when servers loose population and overthought the problem.

The old-fashioned server system would work much better here since you'd also be PvEing with the same people you PvP with. You'd get to know your faction mates much better.

hell yeah

and it would let them have alternative ruleset servers

Iselin · April 2013

Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Iselin
There's no sense of arguing about the influence of broadband saturation on the online game market--especially online games that have real-time components. There is a direct relationship. This is a fact not an opinion.

There's no sense of using 2001 numbers to discuss 2013. There wasn't a single MMO in the top 10 PC games sold in 2001--it was a niche market. Expecting 20K customers is not a mark of dedication, just the economic reality at the time.

No one here is saying that RvR has the most MMORPG appeal... that would be the PvE-based WOW that has the most appeal obviously. If mass appeal was the only criteria, this would be another WOW-formula clone. As a matter of fact, the fact they decided to go with a less popular system, shows more, not less integrity and dedication.

Except they didnt go for a less popular formula. Everything except the PvP areas is your standard, WoW like, ThemePark quest-hub type of gameplay.

So what they "cleverly" did is to combine DAoC RvR with WoW PvP, using Elder Scrolls skin.

Will it work? Dunno. But I do know that it will not be very much like Skyrim or other Elder Scrolls games which I believe is what many are griping about.

Skyrim had minimal levels but if you chose to follow the various story lines--which most people did--it was pretty WOW-like complete with quests that sent you to appropriate places. It even had areas that were locked to you until you had learned the proper shout required to get through the obstacle. Same is true of all of the TES games going back to Arena.

The key word is is choice various storylines, not just one. And it is completely your opinion that most people followed story lines in a linear fashion. I didnt and many of my friends, who loved Skyrim, didnt either. That was actually the reason why we liked it so much as you were not forced to follow some arbitrary, linear storyline.

Even if you look in Wikipedia for Skyrim:

The open world gameplay of The Elder Scrolls series returns in Skyrim; the player can explore the land at will and ignore or postpone the main quest indefinitely.

The nonlinear gameplay traditional in The Elder Scrolls series is incorporated in Skyrim.

So the fact that you played the game like WoW is your choice but it is a choice. In WoW and other ThemeParks there is no such choice because the gameplay is linear and quest hub like. And you can play Skyrim that way if you like but in no way is that the only viable way.

Will TESO be like that? Who knows (except the devs) but judging from what I have seen so far, the answer would be probably not.

It doesn't really matter how you played or I played. The fact is that different ways of playing it were available. I'm still not seeing how ESO is so different except that they added yet another way to play with the RvR-only option. But those damn levels... can't avoid them.

Grindy mindless exploration just does nothing for me. For me to really get into the game, I need to feel like there is a real world here. Just like in the real world there are some things you can do that are a lot more interesting than others. Following the fighters, thieves, mages, dark brotherhood, rebellion, and dragon/shouts plot lines is what immerses me. Killing 2000 wolves and kiting giants doesn't do it.

There were many things and many areas that weren't even open to you unless you were following the appropriate story. I would have missed more by not doing that than just going off on my own. Not that I didn't enjoy finding caves and ruins and exploring them. But in some I would get to a point where I would be getting my ass handed to me often enough that I backed-out and tried to remember to come back later. It was only after I'd followed all the plots and couldn't find many new ones that I just said "fuck it" and systematically went everywhere I hadn't yet been to.

What I did like a lot was the freedom to choose which of the many stories I followed and in what order. Playing a mage, first thing I did was followed the Mage's Guild stories to improve those skills much more easily than I would have by grinding and randomly running into people who could teach me new spells.

In ESO not only do we get to do that but those guilds also have their own skill lines available only to members. Mind you I don't know if you can choose side plots first or you need to level-up before you unlock them. But levels make it much trickier to go off in your own direction...

Shrug. Close enough for me if they do it well.

jmcdermottuk · April 2013

Originally posted by Deivos
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
I do, played Ab and midguard was always over populated. The EXp and money boots helped but on my server we were always lots to midguard and zerged to death 3 and sometimes 4 too 1. Took us little less then a year to learn tatics to beat zergs. We started to win as often as they did and in time the war balanced out for the most part. Sometimes outnumbered and sometimes 1 to 1.

WoW was the same thing, Hord was the winners almost always but in time PvP guilds moved to Ally to have more fun. As a real PvPer who likes auto win? I want a fight! Same with Warhammer, in the end it balanced out from what I read but they are down to 2 servers from what I hear lol

I'm forced to ask 'when'.

In the case of Warhammer it has much to do with the fact their population is just small to begin with. Faction bias is hard in that case.

Same can be said for DAoC. When the servers start dwindling and having to get merged is generally when you see an inprovement in faction balance, becise that's the point where there's no longer enough players to be moving around and forming bias.

In WoW it's as I noted got multiple reasons, and it's PvP woes were not cured by players themselves swapping factions as you just claimed. Blizzard enacted a cross server PvP system specifically to address this imbalance issue. It was a strong enough problem that people had to wait around in queues because there simply weren't enough of the opposing faction's players to match the other side.

Going back to DAoC. It's again the notion that maybe your server blanced out. However, not everyone is what you seem to call a 'real PvPer'. The fact you saw zergs (and could beat them with inferior numbers) is rather evidence of that on it's own.

What this ultimately means is what I already said. There is a fair number of people you can trust to play PvP because they want something out of it. Be it gear or a score number. The easiest way to get either of those is not through competition, but to stack the odds in your favor, and that's just what you can expect mobs of people to do (mob mentality, it applies to game worlds too).

In the time I played DAoC I can honestly say that the most balanced server I ever saw was an emulated server, not an official one.

EDIT: Note, I'm not arguing against DAoC style PvP in TES. I generally think it's a compatible and good idea.

I mostly just take umbrage to how some things are approached in the implementation.

Glossing over the issues the system has faced is not a good thing to do either.

I'd have to agree given my experience with these games.

WAR, well that was pretty much a clusterf*ck from day 1 so we can leave one.

When I started playing DAoC I had no idea about realm balance. I picked Albion and Briton because I'm English, so no brainer there. It turned out the Albs were the dominant realm followed by the Mids and distantly in third place were the Hibs.

What would usually happen was the Mids and Hibs would gang up on us, because it was the only way to get a reasonably balanced fight and even then we outnumbered them, but not by much.

With WoW there was a 70/30 split on my server in favour of the Alliance and I played Horde. The result of this was we got really good at PvP very quickly, because we had to if we wanted to survive. Player for player we were much better at PvP and often beat superior numbers.

When the BG's were introduced this became evident because the Horde dominated. This resulted in a lot of alliance players switching sides because a) they wanted to be on the winning side and b) they were sick of sitting in a queue for 2 hours to get into WSG, whereas we waited for around 5 minutes.

Obviously this was before the cross server pools.

But getting back to your point, it does highlight problems inherent in the RvR system and they shouldn't be ignored.

ShakyMo · April 2013

Originally posted by Iselin
@ Mo...

I think we're only fooling ourselves that in any game where mobs and players have levels, it's truly possible to go off in any direction of the compass.

Whether breadcrumb quests send us there or we get there through the trial and error of dying / surviving, level-based MMOs--which is pretty well all of them--lead you to appropriate areas for your level one way or another.

yeah i prefer the trial / error approach

Also yes, skyrim levels some mobs as you level, but its not like Oblivions system (i dont like oblivion btw).

A good thing in skyrim is within the same area you have mobs you can fight and mobs that will kill you outright. You Might happily clear a pack of wolves on your level 5 character, then go clear a mine of bandits, but you sure as hell arent going to take on the big feck off giant wandering about, you want to avoid him. I prefer the pve work like that mobs of varying strenght within the same region.

p.s. morrowind had a good system too, generally speaking the further inland you went, the more dangerous things got.

BigHatLogan · April 2013

Why did they ruin the combat? Skyrim combat was cool but they decided to make WoW combat which is not so cool. They should have heeded the lessons of SWTOR and stuck with the good parts of the IP they chose instead of MMORPGing the crap of it. MMORPGs in general are pretty awful at the moment so sticking with current conventions is just sad.

ShakyMo · April 2013

Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Iselin
There's no sense of arguing about the influence of broadband saturation on the online game market--especially online games that have real-time components. There is a direct relationship. This is a fact not an opinion.

There's no sense of using 2001 numbers to discuss 2013. There wasn't a single MMO in the top 10 PC games sold in 2001--it was a niche market. Expecting 20K customers is not a mark of dedication, just the economic reality at the time.

No one here is saying that RvR has the most MMORPG appeal... that would be the PvE-based WOW that has the most appeal obviously. If mass appeal was the only criteria, this would be another WOW-formula clone. As a matter of fact, the fact they decided to go with a less popular system, shows more, not less integrity and dedication.

Except they didnt go for a less popular formula. Everything except the PvP areas is your standard, WoW like, ThemePark quest-hub type of gameplay.

So what they "cleverly" did is to combine DAoC RvR with WoW PvP, using Elder Scrolls skin.

Will it work? Dunno. But I do know that it will not be very much like Skyrim or other Elder Scrolls games which I believe is what many are griping about.

Skyrim had minimal levels but if you chose to follow the various story lines--which most people did--it was pretty WOW-like complete with quests that sent you to appropriate places. It even had areas that were locked to you until you had learned the proper shout required to get through the obstacle. Same is true of all of the TES games going back to Arena.

The key word is is choice various storylines, not just one. And it is completely your opinion that most people followed story lines in a linear fashion. I didnt and many of my friends, who loved Skyrim, didnt either. That was actually the reason why we liked it so much as you were not forced to follow some arbitrary, linear storyline.

Even if you look in Wikipedia for Skyrim:

The open world gameplay of The Elder Scrolls series returns in Skyrim; the player can explore the land at will and ignore or postpone the main quest indefinitely.

The nonlinear gameplay traditional in The Elder Scrolls series is incorporated in Skyrim.

So the fact that you played the game like WoW is your choice but it is a choice. In WoW and other ThemeParks there is no such choice because the gameplay is linear and quest hub like. And you can play Skyrim that way if you like but in no way is that the only viable way.

Will TESO be like that? Who knows (except the devs) but judging from what I have seen so far, the answer would be probably not.

It doesn't really matter how you played or I played. The fact is that different ways of playing it were available. I'm still not seeing how ESO is so different except that they added yet another way to play with the RvR-only option. But those damn levels... can't avoid them.

Grindy mindless exploration just does nothing for me. For me to really get into the game, I need to feel like there is a real world here. Just like in the real world there are some things you can do that are a lot more interesting than others. Following the fighters, thieves, mages, dark brotherhood, rebellion, and dragon/shouts plot lines is what immerses me. Killing 2000 wolves and kiting giants doesn't do it.

There were many things and many areas that weren't even open to you unless you were following the appropriate story. I would have missed more by not doing that than just going off on my own. Not that I didn't enjoy finding caves and ruins and exploring them. But in some I would get to a point where I would be getting my ass handed to me often enough that I backed-out and tried to remember to come back later. It was only after I'd followed all the plots and couldn't find many new ones that I just said "fuck it" and systematically went everywhere I hadn't yet been to.

What I did like a lot was the freedom to choose which of the many stories I followed and in what order. Playing a mage, first thing I did was followed the Mage's Guild stories to improve those skills much more easily than I would have by grinding and randomly running into people who could teach me new spells.

In ESO not only do we get to do that but those guilds also have their own skill lines available only to members. Mind you I don't know if you can choose side plots first or you need to level-up before you unlock them. But levels make it much trickier to go off in your own direction...

Shrug. Close enough for me if they do it well.

even if you could just go kill mobs, not give a shit about quests and still level as efficiently. That would be an improvement. You're not Forced to quest then. It would be nice to have the choice, quests generally bore me. I liked the huge over arching quests that took days in older mmos and rpgs, but these quick 5 or 10 minute quests to collect pink boar hides then to get sent back again to collect blue boar hides just bore me to tears, i find them more grindy than just killing mobs. Unfortunately most wow clone mmos drasticly lowered XP from mob kills and planted it on quests instead. I would like a return to XP coming from actually doing stuff, and quests being more just to direct those players that need direction towards stuff.

One thing i DID like about GW2, i could totaly ignore the story.

Iselin · April 2013

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Originally posted by Iselin
@ Mo...

I think we're only fooling ourselves that in any game where mobs and players have levels, it's truly possible to go off in any direction of the compass.

Whether breadcrumb quests send us there or we get there through the trial and error of dying / surviving, level-based MMOs--which is pretty well all of them--lead you to appropriate areas for your level one way or another.

yeah i prefer the trial / error approach

Also yes, skyrim levels some mobs as you level, but its not like Oblivions system (i dont like oblivion btw).

A good thing in skyrim is within the same area you have mobs you can fight and mobs that will kill you outright. You Might happily clear a pack of wolves on your level 5 character, then go clear a mine of bandits, but you sure as hell arent going to take on the big feck off giant wandering about, you want to avoid him. I prefer the pve work like that mobs of varying strenght within the same region.

p.s. morrowind had a good system too, generally speaking the further inland you went, the more dangerous things got.

God I hated giants early on. But I got them back eventually.

ShakyMo · April 2013

Originally posted by BigHatLogan
Why did they ruin the combat? Skyrim combat was cool but they decided to make WoW combat which is not so cool. They should have heeded the lessons of SWTOR and stuck with the good parts of the IP they chose instead of MMORPGing the crap of it. MMORPGs in general are pretty awful at the moment so sticking with current conventions is just sad.

Ah here you are wrong.

The combat is more Skyrim than it is WOW

Although its closest comparison would be GW2 (without the stupid downed mechanic)

Iselin · April 2013

Originally posted by ShakyMo

even if you could just go kill mobs, not give a shit about quests and still level as efficiently. That would be an improvement. You're not Forced to quest then. It would be nice to have the choice, quests generally bore me. I liked the huge over arching quests that took days in older mmos and rpgs, but these quick 5 or 10 minute quests to collect pink boar hides then to get sent back again to collect blue boar hides just bore me to tears, i find them more grindy than just killing mobs. Unfortunately most wow clone mmos drasticly lowered XP from mob kills and planted it on quests instead. I would like a return to XP coming from actually doing stuff, and quests being more just to direct those players that need direction towards stuff.

One thing i DID like about GW2, i could totaly ignore the story.

Oddly enough, some of my favorite quest lines ever were the personal quests in DAoC. They had a good mixture of solo and group content. Everyone was in the same boat so we all helped each other with the group parts...without a group finder. Imagine that!

ShakyMo · April 2013

I know people having to actually make friends in a mmo, how did they ever work

(not just daoc, but all the old mmos)

Pixel_Jockey · April 2013

I really hope this game works out, although I am skeptical. Just too many bad examples latley. I haven't been able to really get into an MMO for awhile now, it would be a pleasant surprise if this game did it for me.

BeansnBread · April 2013

Hmm... this whole campaign thing is bothering me for some reason.

The way you guys have described it, when I create a character, I get plopped into a campaign. This is somewhat like being locked to a server in GW2 where the only server you fight for is your own, forever (assuming no paid transfers or whatever). The main difference is your enemy faction will never change, whereas in GW2 it does.

Also similar to GW2, there is a guesting-like feature where you get to group with people of other campaigns in PvE, but can never change who you group with for your PvP. (Perhaps they will have free changes early on to help reduce friends getting separated).

I will just assume you get to choose your own campaign in a similar way to picking your own server in other MMORPGs, otherwise my head will explode. Am I understanding the system correctly?

Iselin · April 2013

Originally posted by colddog04
Hmm... this whole campaign thing is bothering me for some reason.

The way you guys have described it, when I create a character, I get plopped into a campaign. This is somewhat like being locked to a server in GW2 where the only server you fight for is your own, forever (assuming no paid transfers or whatever). The main difference is your enemy faction will never change, whereas in GW2 it does.

Also similar to GW2, there is a guesting-like feature where you get to group with people of other campaigns in PvE, but can never change who you group with for your PvP. (Perhaps they will have free changes early on to help reduce friends getting separated).

I will just assume you get to choose your own campaign in a similar way to picking your own server in other MMORPGs, otherwise my head will explode. Am I understanding the system correctly?

Pretty much but with a twist:

You can also fill in an in-game form where you state your preferences and he game will try to match you with others according to that. You can also change those preferences weekly I believe. You can specify things such as age range, RP, group, solo, guild, etc. The game then tries to put you in PvE "shards" with people who like to play like you

I've also heard the same system described with respect to PvP (AvA) campaign placement. Although I'm not sure how that would apply to guilds. I assume guilds all go in to the same one. Campaigns will actually have names similar to the way servers do in other games.

The difference is that in PvE you can jump around to whatever "shard" you want whenever you want. Jumping around from one campaign to another won't be as easy. They've mentioned spending "Alliance points" a currency you accumulate in AvA to do that + other (time?) limits. This will be a big deal. Not too different from swapping servers in other games.

Nanfoodle · April 2013

Originally posted by colddog04
Hmm... this whole campaign thing is bothering me for some reason.

The way you guys have described it, when I create a character, I get plopped into a campaign. This is somewhat like being locked to a server in GW2 where the only server you fight for is your own, forever (assuming no paid transfers or whatever). The main difference is your enemy faction will never change, whereas in GW2 it does.

Also similar to GW2, there is a guesting-like feature where you get to group with people of other campaigns in PvE, but can never change who you group with for your PvP. (Perhaps they will have free changes early on to help reduce friends getting separated).

I will just assume you get to choose your own campaign in a similar way to picking your own server in other MMORPGs, otherwise my head will explode. Am I understanding the system correctly?

I have seen nowhere say you cant pick your conflict. If you cant pick your conflict how would guilds function? People would quit just be play another MMO to be with friends.

ShakyMo · April 2013

proper servers would be so much simpler

LordSneerg · April 2013

Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by GrayGhost79

When developers or publishers choose a target audience they have to appeal to that target audience or they will fail to achieve the level of success they both predict and have based spending on.

Age of Conan, TERA, and SWTOR just to name a few picked an audience, failed to listen to and appeal to said audience and didn't meet their goals. This hurts both players and the developer. Players end up feeling ripped off because a game touted as a game made for them turned out not to be and yet another $60+ goes down the drain, it hurts developers because then they are scrambling to fix things when its already to late. Content has to be pounded out in a short amount of time, the business model needs to be reworked, mechanics and systems need to be changed and tweaked, then they have to deal with all of this and much more while being forced to lay off the bulk of their staff.

TESO has chosen TES fans as their target audience and this was done so the moment they decided to go with the name and the lore. If they fail to appeal and listen to their target audience it will end up causing everyone a lot of headaches and dissapointment down the road which has been proven time and time again. Look at FFXIV and what it had to go through after failing to appeal to its target audience and listen to them. They ended up having to spend twice as much as planned to develop the game in the end and their earning potential has been severely reduced after the failed first launch.

Though that isn't the point of your post. You wanted to say that even though it may seem like the majority doesn't agree with the direction they are taking TESO you want Zenimax to know that its just a vocal minority and that far more people like it and just don't post on this forum. The games I listed had people saying the same thing you are saying now about them, the silent majority never materialized though and the games struggled. Would you like me to post similar posts from the FFXIV forums saying pretty much the same thing about it that you are saying now?

I am one of many fans of TES who is part of the target audience. Been playing TES games forever. I have played them to death. I am a HUGE TES fan. I will admit my fav PvP I have ever played was DAoC but this game has more then enough TES in it to make any fan happy if they would take time to look past the mob.

Completely agree with you

Nanfoodle · April 2013

Originally posted by ShakyMo
proper servers would be so much simpler

I love the mega server.

ShakyMo · April 2013

one thing ive noticed

theres at least 4 of us in this thread that are fans of both TES and DAOC

not quite the mutally exclusive complete oposite in games some people on here make out.

I remember when i first played morrowind, thinking "wow this is a bit like daoc PVE in a single player game, I can just wander off and kill stuff and explore dungeons and what have you, im not having to follow quest chains and a story, i can just go make my own story" (most of the rpgs id played at that point were story orientated with deviations - like kotor, i hadn't played the likes of fallout then, being a dirty console peasant at the time.)

obviously the PVP is vastly different though, but thats because TES is a single player game it doesn't have PVP

now in my head I imagined TESO having eve pvp. But I also had fun in daoc PVP, EVE PVP would have fitted the game better, but im just so amazingly glad this isn't yet another mmo that copies wows lame PVP systems.

And i think most of the PVEers will too once theyv'e played the game. It will be refreshing for them to have considerably less "class balance whine" on the forums because nothing shows up class imbalance like supposedly "fair" and "just like fps e-sport honest" 5vs5 and 10vs10 pvp minigames. hell it will be even nice for thoose that think "heck i might just play half an hours pvp for fun, im chosing to do it, it's not getting ganked" when they are welcomed as all help is good help in a RVR setup, no "quit the match and let a real player in noob!" statements you get in instance pvp, they will be pleased to know they don't have to grind out pvp tokens, that PVE / craft gear they've got will do just nicely thank you, they may even join a raid going past belonging to an organised group and think "oh wow this stuff requires the same sort of communication, teamwork and organisation as my pve raiding, but theres no arguments over DKP and all that gubbins"

- THATS WHAT HAPPENED TO ME ANYWAY, a good few months into DAOC, i'd joined it intending to PVE only having left EQ. glad i did, if my first pvp experience had been in one of these "e-sports pvp" mmos i probably would have never pvp'd again.

If they made one Descision right in the design of teso, its that removing of any instanced pvp.

JKwervo · April 2013

Originally posted by ShakyMo

one thing ive noticedtheres at least 4 of us in this thread that are fans of both TES and DAOCnot quite the mutally exclusive complete oposite in games some people on here make out.I remember when i first played morrowind, thinking "wow this is a bit like daoc PVE in a single player game, I can just wander off and kill stuff and explore dungeons and what have you, im not having to follow quest chains and a story, i can just go make my own story" (most of the rpgs id played at that point were story orientated with deviations - like kotor, i hadn't played the likes of fallout then, being a dirty console peasant at the time.)obviously the PVP is vastly different though, but thats because TES is a single player game it doesn't have PVPnow in my head I imagined TESO having eve pvp. But I also had fun in daoc PVP, EVE PVP would have fitted the game better, but im just so amazingly glad this isn't yet another mmo that copies wows lame PVP systems.And i think most of the PVEers will too once theyv'e played the game. It will be refreshing for them to have considerably less "class balance whine" on the forums because nothing shows up class imbalance like supposedly "fair" and "just like fps e-sport honest" 5vs5 and 10vs10 pvp minigames. hell it will be even nice for thoose that think "heck i might just play half an hours pvp for fun, im chosing to do it, it's not getting ganked" when they are welcomed as all help is good help in a RVR setup, no "quit the match and let a real player in noob!" statements you get in instance pvp, they will be pleased to know they don't have to grind out pvp tokens, that PVE / craft gear they've got will do just nicely thank you, they may even join a raid going past belonging to an organised group and think "oh wow this stuff requires the same sort of communication, teamwork and organisation as my pve raiding, but theres no arguments over DKP and all that gubbins"- THATS WHAT HAPPENED TO ME ANYWAY, a good few months into DAOC, i'd joined it intending to PVE only having left EQ. glad i did, if my first pvp experience had been in one of these "e-sports pvp" mmos i probably would have never pvp'd again.If they made one Descision right in the design of teso, its that removing of any instanced pvp.

Cryodiil is instanced. They're seperated by "campaigns" essentially making it a huge battleground. Just from what I got from what they've said.

ShakyMo · April 2013

Originally posted by JKwervo
Originally posted by ShakyMo
one thing ive noticed

theres at least 4 of us in this thread that are fans of both TES and DAOC

not quite the mutally exclusive complete oposite in games some people on here make out.

I remember when i first played morrowind, thinking "wow this is a bit like daoc PVE in a single player game, I can just wander off and kill stuff and explore dungeons and what have you, im not having to follow quest chains and a story, i can just go make my own story" (most of the rpgs id played at that point were story orientated with deviations - like kotor, i hadn't played the likes of fallout then, being a dirty console peasant at the time.)

obviously the PVP is vastly different though, but thats because TES is a single player game it doesn't have PVP

now in my head I imagined TESO having eve pvp. But I also had fun in daoc PVP, EVE PVP would have fitted the game better, but im just so amazingly glad this isn't yet another mmo that copies wows lame PVP systems.

And i think most of the PVEers will too once theyv'e played the game. It will be refreshing for them to have considerably less "class balance whine" on the forums because nothing shows up class imbalance like supposedly "fair" and "just like fps e-sport honest" 5vs5 and 10vs10 pvp minigames. hell it will be even nice for thoose that think "heck i might just play half an hours pvp for fun, im chosing to do it, it's not getting ganked" when they are welcomed as all help is good help in a RVR setup, no "quit the match and let a real player in noob!" statements you get in instance pvp, they will be pleased to know they don't have to grind out pvp tokens, that PVE / craft gear they've got will do just nicely thank you, they may even join a raid going past belonging to an organised group and think "oh wow this stuff requires the same sort of communication, teamwork and organisation as my pve raiding, but theres no arguments over DKP and all that gubbins"

- THATS WHAT HAPPENED TO ME ANYWAY, a good few months into DAOC, i'd joined it intending to PVE only having left EQ. glad i did, if my first pvp experience had been in one of these "e-sports pvp" mmos i probably would have never pvp'd again.

If they made one Descision right in the design of teso, its that removing of any instanced pvp.

Cryodiil is instanced. They're seperated by "campaigns" essentially making it a huge battleground. Just from what I got from what they've said.

no you are confusing zoned and instanced.

JKwervo · April 2013

Originally posted by ShakyMo

Originally posted by JKwervo
Originally posted by ShakyMo
one thing ive noticed theres at least 4 of us in this thread that are fans of both TES and DAOC not quite the mutally exclusive complete oposite in games some people on here make out. I remember when i first played morrowind, thinking "wow this is a bit like daoc PVE in a single player game, I can just wander off and kill stuff and explore dungeons and what have you, im not having to follow quest chains and a story, i can just go make my own story" (most of the rpgs id played at that point were story orientated with deviations - like kotor, i hadn't played the likes of fallout then, being a dirty console peasant at the time.) obviously the PVP is vastly different though, but thats because TES is a single player game it doesn't have PVP now in my head I imagined TESO having eve pvp. But I also had fun in daoc PVP, EVE PVP would have fitted the game better, but im just so amazingly glad this isn't yet another mmo that copies wows lame PVP systems. And i think most of the PVEers will too once theyv'e played the game. It will be refreshing for them to have considerably less "class balance whine" on the forums because nothing shows up class imbalance like supposedly "fair" and "just like fps e-sport honest" 5vs5 and 10vs10 pvp minigames. hell it will be even nice for thoose that think "heck i might just play half an hours pvp for fun, im chosing to do it, it's not getting ganked" when they are welcomed as all help is good help in a RVR setup, no "quit the match and let a real player in noob!" statements you get in instance pvp, they will be pleased to know they don't have to grind out pvp tokens, that PVE / craft gear they've got will do just nicely thank you, they may even join a raid going past belonging to an organised group and think "oh wow this stuff requires the same sort of communication, teamwork and organisation as my pve raiding, but theres no arguments over DKP and all that gubbins" - THATS WHAT HAPPENED TO ME ANYWAY, a good few months into DAOC, i'd joined it intending to PVE only having left EQ. glad i did, if my first pvp experience had been in one of these "e-sports pvp" mmos i probably would have never pvp'd again. If they made one Descision right in the design of teso, its that removing of any instanced pvp.

Cryodiil is instanced. They're seperated by "campaigns" essentially making it a huge battleground. Just from what I got from what they've said.

no you are confusing zoned and instanced.

If you have a limited amount of people that can enter, that is instanced, at least my definition of it. Zoned, phased, sharded, same thing to me. But, apparently your definition trumps mine.

ShakyMo · April 2013

Originally posted by JKwervo
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Originally posted by JKwervo
Originally posted by ShakyMo
one thing ive noticed

theres at least 4 of us in this thread that are fans of both TES and DAOC

not quite the mutally exclusive complete oposite in games some people on here make out.

I remember when i first played morrowind, thinking "wow this is a bit like daoc PVE in a single player game, I can just wander off and kill stuff and explore dungeons and what have you, im not having to follow quest chains and a story, i can just go make my own story" (most of the rpgs id played at that point were story orientated with deviations - like kotor, i hadn't played the likes of fallout then, being a dirty console peasant at the time.)

obviously the PVP is vastly different though, but thats because TES is a single player game it doesn't have PVP

now in my head I imagined TESO having eve pvp. But I also had fun in daoc PVP, EVE PVP would have fitted the game better, but im just so amazingly glad this isn't yet another mmo that copies wows lame PVP systems.

And i think most of the PVEers will too once theyv'e played the game. It will be refreshing for them to have considerably less "class balance whine" on the forums because nothing shows up class imbalance like supposedly "fair" and "just like fps e-sport honest" 5vs5 and 10vs10 pvp minigames. hell it will be even nice for thoose that think "heck i might just play half an hours pvp for fun, im chosing to do it, it's not getting ganked" when they are welcomed as all help is good help in a RVR setup, no "quit the match and let a real player in noob!" statements you get in instance pvp, they will be pleased to know they don't have to grind out pvp tokens, that PVE / craft gear they've got will do just nicely thank you, they may even join a raid going past belonging to an organised group and think "oh wow this stuff requires the same sort of communication, teamwork and organisation as my pve raiding, but theres no arguments over DKP and all that gubbins"

- THATS WHAT HAPPENED TO ME ANYWAY, a good few months into DAOC, i'd joined it intending to PVE only having left EQ. glad i did, if my first pvp experience had been in one of these "e-sports pvp" mmos i probably would have never pvp'd again.

If they made one Descision right in the design of teso, its that removing of any instanced pvp.

Cryodiil is instanced. They're seperated by "campaigns" essentially making it a huge battleground. Just from what I got from what they've said.

no you are confusing zoned and instanced.

If you have a limited amount of people that can enter, that is instanced, at least my definition of it. Zoned, phased, sharded, same thing to me. But, apparently your definition trumps mine.

no there is ONE and ONE ONLY copy of cyrodil for each campaign. Once you roll a character, you are locked to a campaign, whenever you pvp you will be in that campaign and see exactly the same people forever. they don't go "oh we have xxx players in cyrodil" we need to spawn another copy, they don't have you sat in a queue waiting for other players to "fill spots". They do do that with the PVE zones though.,

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