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How to keep people from building sploits.

TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless ColumnistM, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon

Easy enough, have a demolitions crew. A group of volunteers that act much like forum mods. They go around and report any housing issues, ask the person to move it, if they don't, the house is flagged by said mod and the players on the relm can do as they with to the sploit house (burn, take town, etc).

I like to keep things in a game, gameish. So we have a bit more to it that that. Above is the simple easy way. Below is the way I would prefer.

You log in, in your inbox is a politely written letter stating you have X hours to move your structure, please move it or you will get a visit from some people that you may not like.

After X amount of hours your screen goes black and you see it's loading. When you come to you see your character tied up in a chair, in a dungeon room with dim light. The Royal SS reads you a statement on why they are about to do what they are and the NPCs promptly kill or beat you unconscious. When you load again your outside your house and it is flagged for demolition (you can pack it asap but so can any other builders).

Thats the first offense.

The 2nd time you get in trouble for the same crime where ever you are in the world suddenly the SS spawn and execute you. When you spawn back in you have been fined, and your home is flagged, this time you can't touch it, other players can. You now have a Scarlett letter by your name for X amount of time telling other players you are a sploiter.

3 strikers, the 3rd time you get in trouble for it. You load into the game and are promptly dispatched. When you spawn back you have a scarlet letter for longer, you can't touch your materials but other can, you can't build another house for X amount of time, and your name has been added to a bounty list.

Should you dare go 4X or more, you get all of the above plus your flagged kill on site by your own relm.

On the other side, if you go long enough without any issues you can get back to first offense status.

Yes? No? Better ideas?

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Comments

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,503Member Uncommon
    They'll likely just have designated areas where you can build.
  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by colddog04
    They'll likely just have designated areas where you can build.

    First off I just wanna say you pic is epic. Ever see this stuff? Also epic.

    http://sharpwriter.deviantart.com/art/Ronald-Reagan-Riding-a-Velociraptor-312025579

    Secondly, it sounds like they are opening up just about everything to be built on so they will probably need a balance to avoid SWG style mass building ruining the landscape.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,503Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tierless

    Originally posted by colddog04
    They'll likely just have designated areas where you can build.

    First off I just wanna say you pic is epic. Ever see this stuff? Also epic.

    http://sharpwriter.deviantart.com/art/Ronald-Reagan-Riding-a-Velociraptor-312025579

    Secondly, it sounds like they are opening up just about everything to be built on so they will probably need a balance to avoid SWG style mass building ruining the landscape.

    I didn't get the impression that everything could be built on. It was mostly these things that made me think they were resticting it to certain areas:

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained/posts/460192

     

    "Using both cells and prefabs players can build structures throughout most of the world (you can’t build in certain parts of the main cities and other locked locations)."

    "First, while players can own and control plots of land, they can also give permission on these plots to other people to allow them to build on them at the same time."

     

  • meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon
    I wonder if they have even thought about the effect on graphics performance. Housing was always the laggiest zone for me in DAOC. Imagine trying to RvR in housing. It wouldn't be pretty.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by meddyck
    I wonder if they have even thought about the effect on graphics performance. Housing was always the laggiest zone for me in DAOC. Imagine trying to RvR in housing. It wouldn't be pretty.

    Especially if they are burning!

  • LokbergLokberg OlsoPosts: 315Member
    I think te sfae areas got house plots in specific spaces but then you can go out in the unsafe area build were u like and have it taken and/or burned down by the two enemy sides
  • redcappredcapp brook, NYPosts: 722Member
    Putting this in the hands of players is just BEGGING for griefing. 
  • DanwarrDanwarr Grove City, PAPosts: 185Member
    Originally posted by redcapp
    Putting this in the hands of players is just BEGGING for griefing. 

    How so? This is a PvP game is it not?

    Waiting: CU, WildStar, Destiny, Eternal Crusade
    Playing: ESO,DCUO
    Played: LotRO,RIFT,ToR,Warhammer, Runescape

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,503Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Danwarr
    Originally posted by redcapp
    Putting this in the hands of players is just BEGGING for griefing. 

    How so? This is a PvP game is it not?

    How do you chose who builds where? If everyone can build anywhere, what's to stop me from screwing up your creation? How are they going to manage land so that it's fair? Can I build a wall around whatever you're creating? 

     

    Telling us about the system and actually implementing it correctly are extremely far apart. The more I think about it, the more of a mess it becomes in my mind. But like I've said before, if they can implement it correctly, I'm in. I'm skeptical about them being able to implement a feature where people can pretty much build anywhere.

     

    Are roaming mods really the answer? Is this going to have to be policed every step of the way? Even when policed, how do you chose who wins an argument of, "I was here first?" 

  • DanwarrDanwarr Grove City, PAPosts: 185Member
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by Danwarr
    Originally posted by redcapp
    Putting this in the hands of players is just BEGGING for griefing. 

    How so? This is a PvP game is it not?

    How do you chose who builds where? If everyone can build anywhere, what's to stop me from screwing up your creation? How are they going to manage land so that it's fair? Can I build a wall around whatever you're creating? 

     

    Telling us about the system and actually implementing it correctly are extremely far apart. The more I think about it, the more of a mess it becomes in my mind. But like I've said before, if they can implement it correctly, I'm in. I'm skeptical about them being able to implement a feature where people can pretty much build anywhere.

     

    Are roaming mods really the answer? Is this going to have to be policed every step of the way? Even when policed, how do you chose who wins an argument of, "I was here first?" 

    The way I understand it, the "plots" and "bubbles" systems work simultaneously.

    Also, building isn't going to be instant of course. So, if one realm is building on a location and another comes in and starts building as well, I don't see why the crafters can't just call in the fighters from their realm to help secure the plot.

    The way I see it, the "bubbles" and "plots" will be points of conflict as each realm trys to take control of more resources.

    Waiting: CU, WildStar, Destiny, Eternal Crusade
    Playing: ESO,DCUO
    Played: LotRO,RIFT,ToR,Warhammer, Runescape

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,503Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Danwarr
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by Danwarr
    Originally posted by redcapp
    Putting this in the hands of players is just BEGGING for griefing. 

    How so? This is a PvP game is it not?

    How do you chose who builds where? If everyone can build anywhere, what's to stop me from screwing up your creation? How are they going to manage land so that it's fair? Can I build a wall around whatever you're creating? 

     

    Telling us about the system and actually implementing it correctly are extremely far apart. The more I think about it, the more of a mess it becomes in my mind. But like I've said before, if they can implement it correctly, I'm in. I'm skeptical about them being able to implement a feature where people can pretty much build anywhere.

     

    Are roaming mods really the answer? Is this going to have to be policed every step of the way? Even when policed, how do you chose who wins an argument of, "I was here first?" 

    The way I understand it, the "plots" and "bubbles" systems work simultaneously.

    Also, building isn't going to be instant of course. So, if one realm is building on a location and another comes in and starts building as well, I don't see why the crafters can't just call in the fighters from their realm to help secure the plot.

    The way I see it, the "bubbles" and "plots" will be points of conflict as each realm trys to take control of more resources.

    It's friendly vs friendly griefing that I believe redcapp was referring to. Since I am in your realm, you have no legitimate way to stop me from ruining whatever it is you are trying to build on the public realm plot. That is, if they are public.

     

    If they are private plots that need to be bought, then another type of griefing happens. People can buy key plots and then build nothing on them to help the realm. It's quite a mess to figure out and make it work to be honest.

  • ArbroathArbroath Depew, NYPosts: 175Member

    I believe they are private plots that need to be bought. It was mentioned somewhere that permissions needed to be given to allow someone to help you with your construction. Therefore, noone without your permission could build on your plot

    It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom — for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself. ~Declaration of Arbroath

  • fanglofanglo Virginia, VAPosts: 290Member

    There should be plots like Vangaurd.  Small things like roads, traps maybe walls wouldn't need plots. There are a whole bunch of other issues that I can see though. Since I'm IT tier I should be able to help test the crap out of all the exploits I can think of.

    Actually that's one of my favorite parts of beta testing exploiting like crazy and not getting in trouble for it.

    For example:

     

    http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a32/fanglo/Fanglooflancelot_005.jpg

    Me inside a rock in Warhammer Online Beta.

    http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a32/fanglo/Fanglooflancelot_029.jpg

    Me exploiting monster pathing to kill monsters without getting hit

     

    I healed Mistwraith and all I got was this stupid tee-shirt!

  • DanwarrDanwarr Grove City, PAPosts: 185Member
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by Danwarr
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by Danwarr
    Originally posted by redcapp
    Putting this in the hands of players is just BEGGING for griefing. 

    How so? This is a PvP game is it not?

    How do you chose who builds where? If everyone can build anywhere, what's to stop me from screwing up your creation? How are they going to manage land so that it's fair? Can I build a wall around whatever you're creating? 

     

    Telling us about the system and actually implementing it correctly are extremely far apart. The more I think about it, the more of a mess it becomes in my mind. But like I've said before, if they can implement it correctly, I'm in. I'm skeptical about them being able to implement a feature where people can pretty much build anywhere.

     

    Are roaming mods really the answer? Is this going to have to be policed every step of the way? Even when policed, how do you chose who wins an argument of, "I was here first?" 

    The way I understand it, the "plots" and "bubbles" systems work simultaneously.

    Also, building isn't going to be instant of course. So, if one realm is building on a location and another comes in and starts building as well, I don't see why the crafters can't just call in the fighters from their realm to help secure the plot.

    The way I see it, the "bubbles" and "plots" will be points of conflict as each realm trys to take control of more resources.

    It's friendly vs friendly griefing that I believe redcapp was referring to. Since I am in your realm, you have no legitimate way to stop me from ruining whatever it is you are trying to build on the public realm plot. That is, if they are public.

     

    If they are private plots that need to be bought, then another type of griefing happens. People can buy key plots and then build nothing on them to help the realm. It's quite a mess to figure out and make it work to be honest.

    Good point. I'm sure MJ and CSE will find a good way make sure that doesn't happen.

    Waiting: CU, WildStar, Destiny, Eternal Crusade
    Playing: ESO,DCUO
    Played: LotRO,RIFT,ToR,Warhammer, Runescape

  • StilerStiler Athens, TNPosts: 599Member

    He mentions "plots" so I'm thinking that they'll go a Vanguard style route, where the developers have specific pre-flagged "zones" in the world that people can build on.

     

    Someone else in this forum on another housing topic had a good idea which was accomplished that same purpose, but did it in a more "Free" way.

     

    Instead of the developers placing specific "zones" to be built upon, you instead take each region of a map, and then assign "points" to that zone.

    Then each type of building/structure has points attached to it, the bigger the structure, the higher it costs in points.

     

    So for example, say a small area between two rivers has a "80" point limit to it.

    Now a house costs 5 points, shop cost 10, tower also 10, , Keeps 50, etc. You get the point, the bigger/more powerful buildings  cost more points, just like in an "RTS" style game.

    This limits the number of structures that are placed on a region of the map, so you don't end up with ithie SWG/UO style of "house clutter" where it kind of ruined the artistic design of the lanscape and you had random houses dotting it everywhere. however it also offers more freedom for players to build where they want to rather then the Vanguard style of pre determined plot area's.

     

    Another idea that I had, was to promote people building "togeother" and forming towns, and buildings near keeps for protection, etc (like what MJ seems to want people to do) would be to allow Keeps  to give bonus points for structures placed near them.

    For example, lets say a region has 80 points as before, a Keep is placed in this region, that leaves 30 points left, HOWEVER if people start to "build" around this keep, it allows houses/shops to e placed without taking points "away." This promotes guilds and other players to build together and gives reasons for it. There would need to be a limit to this (obviously), but enough to allow a "town" to form and not be limited based ont he overall region points.

    Also the keep owner could have a kind of "RTS/Sim city" style "zone" map, where they can design the layout of the city in temrs of where they want to allow "homes" and "shops" or not-allow building, this way you don't end up with people cluttering up the city and messing up area's where guildies want to live or where you think a shop, etc would work better vs housing.

     

    On top of all of this, another awesome idea I think is if buildings could be "upgraded." Say a keep starts out as just a small wooden fort type of thing, eventually moving to a small stone keep, then a bigger one, into a castle like structure. With each "upgrade" the city can grow, allowing more buildings to be placed, and also unlocking "upgrades" within the city, such as bigger shops, more bank storage within that city, better guard towers/guards, and perhaps stables (if mounts make it in) that provide better horses to purchase.

    This gives cities something to work for and makes those that can hold their ground/defend their cities the ability to stand out, and makes the cities in RVR area's different and gives different threats for the enemies to take on.

     

  • ZinzanZinzan NorthPosts: 1,351Member
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by Danwarr
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by Danwarr
    Originally posted by redcapp
    Putting this in the hands of players is just BEGGING for griefing. 

    How so? This is a PvP game is it not?

    How do you chose who builds where? If everyone can build anywhere, what's to stop me from screwing up your creation? How are they going to manage land so that it's fair? Can I build a wall around whatever you're creating? 

     

    Telling us about the system and actually implementing it correctly are extremely far apart. The more I think about it, the more of a mess it becomes in my mind. But like I've said before, if they can implement it correctly, I'm in. I'm skeptical about them being able to implement a feature where people can pretty much build anywhere.

     

    Are roaming mods really the answer? Is this going to have to be policed every step of the way? Even when policed, how do you chose who wins an argument of, "I was here first?" 

    The way I understand it, the "plots" and "bubbles" systems work simultaneously.

    Also, building isn't going to be instant of course. So, if one realm is building on a location and another comes in and starts building as well, I don't see why the crafters can't just call in the fighters from their realm to help secure the plot.

    The way I see it, the "bubbles" and "plots" will be points of conflict as each realm trys to take control of more resources.

    It's friendly vs friendly griefing that I believe redcapp was referring to. Since I am in your realm, you have no legitimate way to stop me from ruining whatever it is you are trying to build on the public realm plot. That is, if they are public.

     

    If they are private plots that need to be bought, then another type of griefing happens. People can buy key plots and then build nothing on them to help the realm. It's quite a mess to figure out and make it work to be honest.

    Yep, this is exactly the same problem I can also foresee. An enemy you can stomp into th ground, an ally, well, they can just stand there laughing at you.

    Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  • naezgulnaezgul Homer Glen, ILPosts: 374Member
    Originally posted by Zinzan
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by Danwarr
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by Danwarr
    Originally posted by redcapp
    Putting this in the hands of players is just BEGGING for griefing. 

    How so? This is a PvP game is it not?

    How do you chose who builds where? If everyone can build anywhere, what's to stop me from screwing up your creation? How are they going to manage land so that it's fair? Can I build a wall around whatever you're creating? 

     

    Telling us about the system and actually implementing it correctly are extremely far apart. The more I think about it, the more of a mess it becomes in my mind. But like I've said before, if they can implement it correctly, I'm in. I'm skeptical about them being able to implement a feature where people can pretty much build anywhere.

     

    Are roaming mods really the answer? Is this going to have to be policed every step of the way? Even when policed, how do you chose who wins an argument of, "I was here first?" 

    The way I understand it, the "plots" and "bubbles" systems work simultaneously.

    Also, building isn't going to be instant of course. So, if one realm is building on a location and another comes in and starts building as well, I don't see why the crafters can't just call in the fighters from their realm to help secure the plot.

    The way I see it, the "bubbles" and "plots" will be points of conflict as each realm trys to take control of more resources.

    It's friendly vs friendly griefing that I believe redcapp was referring to. Since I am in your realm, you have no legitimate way to stop me from ruining whatever it is you are trying to build on the public realm plot. That is, if they are public.

     

    If they are private plots that need to be bought, then another type of griefing happens. People can buy key plots and then build nothing on them to help the realm. It's quite a mess to figure out and make it work to be honest.

    Yep, this is exactly the same problem I can also foresee. An enemy you can stomp into th ground, an ally, well, they can just stand there laughing at you.

    Just like real life problems with neighbors

    ......your tree is hanging over my fence

  • What's a sploit?
  • OdamanOdaman Satesboro, GAPosts: 194Member

    I was under the impression plots would be owned, and the owner must give permissions. Also crap degrades over time and good luck keeping undefended junk standing when the hoards come to burn things to the ground. 

    I'm more worried about 8 layer keep wallsand stuff like that. 

  • TaldierTaldier Camp Hill, PAPosts: 235Member
    Originally posted by naezgul

    Just like real life problems with neighbors

    ......your tree is hanging over my fence

    New guild idea: "The Homeowners Association"

    "Paint thy fence the same color as everyone else or be violently murdered!"

  • Niix_OzekNiix_Ozek Calgary, ABPosts: 397Member
    Has he mentioned anything about CSE built structures like keeps / relic keep type things that the realms are fighting over? or is it just burn each other personal houses all day?

    Ozek - DAOC
    Niix - Other games that sucked

  • OdamanOdaman Satesboro, GAPosts: 194Member
    He mentioned something about crafters being able to make powerful objects like relics in one of the livestrems (think it was return to camelot, after the actual interview... not sure though). Keeps and towers were mentioned in updates.
  • TaldierTaldier Camp Hill, PAPosts: 235Member
    Originally posted by Niix_Ozek
    Has he mentioned anything about CSE built structures like keeps / relic keep type things that the realms are fighting over? or is it just burn each other personal houses all day?

    The keeps will likely start out as ruins that guilds will have to build up the same way as houses.  So that would mean every keep battle would have the potential to be different.  Maybe we'll even be able to find locations and build keeps from scratch.

     

    The world is player driven, so keeps wont just magically appear.

     

    Also, your comment here is really negative.  There arent going to be just random houses scattered about in the wilderness.  Players will gather together and create towns for mutual defense, perhaps with walls around them.  What you are really fighting over is resources, so an enemy town could be a big target.  Thats hardly the same as just running around lighting log cabins on fire.

  • fanglofanglo Virginia, VAPosts: 290Member

    On sunday, one of the artists was working on a painting (concept art)

    It was a village with plots taken up for various structures. The whole thing was surrounded by walls. Anyway some of the structures were: Guild Hall, Tavern, Supply Shed (can't remember official name) a few houses and some other structures unnamed.

    This village was guild owned and in a mining bubble (read MJ's latest post  to learn about bubbles)

    Also the cool part is that the village was under siege. Part of the wall was taken out, the 2 plots nearest the wall were destroyed and the defenders had a few traps, near the opening. 

    The main thing I take from this is if walls can be easily taken down, no one will ever put a ram up at the front door. Thus you can make all the chokepoints you want, a patient attacker will just use catapults at the weakest part of your wall and make it crumble.

    I healed Mistwraith and all I got was this stupid tee-shirt!

  • TaldierTaldier Camp Hill, PAPosts: 235Member
    Originally posted by fanglo

    On sunday, one of the artists was working on a painting (concept art)

    It was a village with plots taken up for various structures. The whole thing was surrounded by walls. Anyway some of the structures were: Guild Hall, Tavern, Supply Shed (can't remember official name) a few houses and some other structures unnamed.

    This village was guild owned and in a mining bubble (read MJ's latest post  to learn about bubbles)

    Also the cool part is that the village was under siege. Part of the wall was taken out, the 2 plots nearest the wall were destroyed and the defenders had a few traps, near the opening. 

    The main thing I take from this is if walls can be easily taken down, no one will ever put a ram up at the front door. Thus you can make all the chokepoints you want, a patient attacker will just use catapults at the weakest part of your wall and make it crumble.

    Its worth noting that the drawing was concept art being drawn on the fly by an artist, but it was certainly a pretty cool looking depiction.

     

    There are upsides and downsides to any sort of "stand back and shoot catapults" strategy.  Its safer, but that would also give the defenders more time to organize reinforcements.  Just like in a real seige, the beseiging army could potentially find themselves encircled.

     

    Also if you knock down the wall and then you win... theres a hole in the wall you need to rebuild.

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