I did play KoA on hard, it was the only difficulty mode I did play on, and it was still way too easy. I don't mind that games have an easy mode, or that most people play on that mode, but when you include a hard mode, make it hard! Oh, and unless hard mode is a new game+, don't lock it behind behind normal mode. I do not want to have to drudge through your game (in some cases multiple times) before it becomes worth playing.
On the subject of MMOs being too easy; when you can do content faster solo than you can in a group it's too easy. That's not to say that there should be no solo content, but it should be challenging enough that if I see someone else doing that same content I should want to group up with them... in most MMOs recently grouping is basically a burden.
So, i think the game isn't that easy for the current playerbase afterall, even if it is for us who used to play in vanilla and TBC.
Difficulty is in the eye of the beholder. Otherwise, MP levels won't be so popular in D3. You can't assume all other players want (or enjoy) the same level of challenge as you do. And i am also quite sure you are no where close to the skill of the Paragon guys.
Hence .. multiple levels of difficulty is going to be an important design factor.
Originally posted by nariusseldon ...Yes. Many MMOs are more like lobby games than virtual world...
There is absolutely nothing massive about a lobby game. No wonder the industry is tanking; trying to push non massive content into a genre which describes itself first and foremost as massive.
hmm .. you don't need "massive" to be successful. Look at all the non-MMO online games.
The most successful is LoL. Is it massive?
D3 sold 12M. Is it massive?
WoT is highly successful. Is it massive?
Even WOW is still going strong. How much of it is massive?
You just skip over posts, that directly rebuttal all your nonsense.. & Narius you continue on, like we aren't waiting for you to try and redeem your honor. People are starting to laugh @ you on other websites dude... ur troll is getting ruined by logic and you can't rebuttal, so you skip... run from post that completely thwart your pseudo logic.
Nothing you claim is true, we can read all your post history dude & how you squirm out of posts.
Secondly.. & once again... ur asking us to "look away from non-mmo games".^.. for you to try and make a distant point, that has zero relevence here within this thread. PLEASE STOP TROLLING!
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
I did not say normals couldnt be pugged...I said normals cant be "LFR'd"
I do know how LFR works and i agree. You can't form a random raidgroup for normals, partly for the reasons i said above.
What you could do is to design LFR for normals a bit differently, like give a raid leader a list of queued players and let him pick the fill ups manually, or something like that.
Most people who didn't raid were not willing to do a long term commitment to show up every saturday and sunday at 7 o'clock sharp, but i'm sure there was enough geared up players at any given time on every server who could have filled up the missing spots, or even start a new raidgroup from scratch. I can't see how this was different in MoP. You just can't tell if a player is good enough for normals or not, since everyone is entitled to the best gear available, so item level can't be used to measure a player's skill in group content.
It's funny that the only type of content that would have needed a tool to help form groups was never implemented. LFG tool for 5 mans was nice, i admit, but it was never really necessary. They wouldn't have needed to completely redesign the whole game in order to get casual players, like me, to do raids.
Not sure where you heard that, but thats completely false.
You just skip over posts, that directly rebuttal all your nonsense.. & Narius you continue on, like we aren't waiting for you to try and redeem your honor. People are starting to laugh @ you on other websites dude... ur troll is getting ruined by logic and you can't rebuttal, so you skip... run from post that completely thwart your pseudo logic.
Nothing you claim is true, we can read all your post history dude & how you squirm out of posts.
Secondly.. & once again... ur asking us to "look away from non-mmo games".^.. for you to try and make a distant point, that has zero relevence here within this thread. PLEASE STOP TROLLING!
Not sure if this post should be reported.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
It is hardly that bad a post, but I do think posters need to Keep Calm and remember it is only a game. That said I have been known to put my rant hat on, once in a while.
You just skip over posts, that directly rebuttal all your nonsense.. & Narius you continue on, like we aren't waiting for you to try and redeem your honor. People are starting to laugh @ you on other websites dude... ur troll is getting ruined by logic and you can't rebuttal, so you skip... run from post that completely thwart your pseudo logic.
Nothing you claim is true, we can read all your post history dude & how you squirm out of posts.
Secondly.. & once again... ur asking us to "look away from non-mmo games".^.. for you to try and make a distant point, that has zero relevence here within this thread. PLEASE STOP TROLLING!
Not sure if this post should be reported.
I put him on "ignore". Do report him. I clearly would not mind. But i found that it is a free world .. and the ignore button works very well.
Originally posted by Quirhid Originally posted by PhelcherOriginally posted by nariusseldon
You just skip over posts, that directly rebuttal all your nonsense.. & Narius you continue on, like we aren't waiting for you to try and redeem your honor. People are starting to laugh @ you on other websites dude... ur troll is getting ruined by logic and you can't rebuttal, so you skip... run from post that completely thwart your pseudo logic. Nothing you claim is true, we can read all your post history dude & how you squirm out of posts. Secondly.. & once again... ur asking us to "look away from non-mmo games".^.. for you to try and make a distant point, that has zero relevence here within this thread. PLEASE STOP TROLLING!Not sure if this post should be reported.
Ya he's just stating what everyone who visits here already knows. Antagonists love to bait others in hopes they can get the victim a temporary ban. Happens all the time at MMORPG. Some people live to grief others.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
You just skip over posts, that directly rebuttal all your nonsense.. & Narius you continue on, like we aren't waiting for you to try and redeem your honor. People are starting to laugh @ you on other websites dude... ur troll is getting ruined by logic and you can't rebuttal, so you skip... run from post that completely thwart your pseudo logic. Nothing you claim is true, we can read all your post history dude & how you squirm out of posts. Secondly.. & once again... ur asking us to "look away from non-mmo games".^.. for you to try and make a distant point, that has zero relevence here within this thread. PLEASE STOP TROLLING!
Not sure if this post should be reported.
Ya he's just stating what everyone who visits here already knows. Antagonists love to bait others in hopes they can get the victim a temporary ban. Happens all the time at MMORPG. Some people live to grief others.
Indeed that seems to be the way a lot of folks like to behave around here. But, I'm not sure how some of the more obvious ones seem to float under the mod radar and for such a long time. Some of the users here are as transparent as a freshly cleaned window.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
You just skip over posts, that directly rebuttal all your nonsense.. & Narius you continue on, like we aren't waiting for you to try and redeem your honor. People are starting to laugh @ you on other websites dude... ur troll is getting ruined by logic and you can't rebuttal, so you skip... run from post that completely thwart your pseudo logic. Nothing you claim is true, we can read all your post history dude & how you squirm out of posts. Secondly.. & once again... ur asking us to "look away from non-mmo games".^.. for you to try and make a distant point, that has zero relevence here within this thread. PLEASE STOP TROLLING!
Not sure if this post should be reported.
Ya he's just stating what everyone who visits here already knows. Antagonists love to bait others in hopes they can get the victim a temporary ban. Happens all the time at MMORPG. Some people live to grief others.
Indeed that seems to be the way a lot of folks like to behave around here. But, I'm not sure how some of the more obvious ones seem to float under the mod radar and for such a long time. Some of the users here are as transparent as a freshly cleaned window.
Under the radar..? I think the word you are looking for is collusion... lol
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
Kinda have to dissagree with it being a myth or whatever because when I don't have to step back and think at all anymore or even attempt to strategize during some encounter its become to easy. Lets face theres alot of hand holding in MMO now aday's and tons of tools that help to do just that. Take a DPS meter addon for instance lets just say this thing was never ever invented ever and never will be for gaming. How well do you think alot of people would do without these that used them so furvently to find out the best way to play any one specific character. Which were the best skills to have/use what was the best rotation of those skills and so on and so fourth. Its things like this for me that have ruined most MMO's for me because all the guess work of actual trial and error is taken out of the equation. You could say well thats just something thats time consuming and you could still end up with the same build without it which is true but it takes all the experience you gain out of learning that on a personal level.
Its just some what gotten to a point in every MMO i play I can pretty much guess what to expect I never really have to put any thought into it its all already done. Hell even in firefall the game I've currently been taking for a test drive they tell you right on the gun what its dps is. In all honesty I just want to be challenged I want the chance of their being a failure (no not due to some enrage timer that means the boss will AoE one shot everyone within 2 minutes if you don't kill it) I mean make players actually have to think about the fight. Make the bosses have a weak point that does extra damage or is the only place the boss takes damage.
They need to stop rehashing out all these same stagnant types of encounters and invent something new. Its gotten old and maybe my perspective on gaming has as well but I had a lot more fun playing old games I died in constantly cause I couldn't figure out something or would get stuck in because I couldn't find the right path or figure out some sort of puzzle to progress further. It just seems like the more mmos I try and the newer they are I keep finding myself just going through the cycles of rinse repeat to every encounter any more with minor differences. One boss goes immune spawns adds at 80% hp one boss throws up a reflective buff at 75% hp one boss spawns adds that cast physical and magical defensive debuffs so on and so fourth and the list goes on and on. Most people that have played a good amount of Content in Numerous MMOs will know what I mean its gotten predictable very predictable and its been a good long while since someone has been brave enough to actually try something fairly innovative from what I've seen.
Kinda have to dissagree with it being a myth or whatever because when I don't have to step back and think at all anymore or even attempt to strategize during some encounter its become to easy. Lets face theres alot of hand holding in MMO now aday's and tons of tools that help to do just that. Take a DPS meter addon for instance lets just say this thing was never ever invented ever and never will be for gaming. How well do you think alot of people would do without these that used them so furvently to find out the best way to play any one specific character. Which were the best skills to have/use what was the best rotation of those skills and so on and so fourth. Its things like this for me that have ruined most MMO's for me because all the guess work of actual trial and error is taken out of the equation. You could say well thats just something thats time consuming and you could still end up with the same build without it which is true but it takes all the experience you gain out of learning that on a personal level.
Its just some what gotten to a point in every MMO i play I can pretty much guess what to expect I never really have to put any thought into it its all already done. Hell even in firefall the game I've currently been taking for a test drive they tell you right on the gun what its dps is. In all honesty I just want to be challenged I want the chance of their being a failure (no not due to some enrage timer that means the boss will AoE one shot everyone within 2 minutes if you don't kill it) I mean make players actually have to think about the fight. Make the bosses have a weak point that does extra damage or is the only place the boss takes damage.
They need to stop rehashing out all these same stagnant types of encounters and invent something new. Its gotten old and maybe my perspective on gaming has as well but I had a lot more fun playing old games I died in constantly cause I couldn't figure out something or would get stuck in because I couldn't find the right path or figure out some sort of puzzle to progress further. It just seems like the more mmos I try and the newer they are I keep finding myself just going through the cycles of rinse repeat to every encounter any more with minor differences. One boss goes immune spawns adds at 80% hp one boss throws up a reflective buff at 75% hp one boss spawns adds that cast physical and magical defensive debuffs so on and so fourth and the list goes on and on. Most people that have played a good amount of Content in Numerous MMOs will know what I mean its gotten predictable very predictable and its been a good long while since someone has been brave enough to actually try something fairly innovative from what I've seen.
Long rant ...
Show us your hard mode raids achievement. I doubt you have it. Better yet, you are so l33t, where is your world first raid kill?
This topic is not about "stagnant types" of encounters. If you don't like them, or find them boring .. fine. Don't complain they are easy unless you can do them all, which i doubt. In fact, i doubt you can do them all even if you watch all the youtube strategy video.
I played Age fo Empires II (HD) today on Hard mode.. & Hardest mode. But like so many other games, these are not a MMORPGs.
If a game has a "hard mode" ,etc.. then it is an arcade game & hardly worth discussing on a MMORPG forum, right? Becuase we all know "easy" isn't a myth, it is the rule.
" Easy" is used to harbor all the adolecent minds.. until they grow up mentally and wish for more of a challenge. If a game is 90% easy, but has 10% of the content can be played at the hardest level possible.. still doesn't make the game easy. Just makes those instances easy/hard..
If a game has a difficulty setting, then it is an Arcade game, not a MMORPG.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
Kinda have to dissagree with it being a myth or whatever because when I don't have to step back and think at all anymore or even attempt to strategize during some encounter its become to easy. Lets face theres alot of hand holding in MMO now aday's and tons of tools that help to do just that. Take a DPS meter addon for instance lets just say this thing was never ever invented ever and never will be for gaming. How well do you think alot of people would do without these that used them so furvently to find out the best way to play any one specific character. Which were the best skills to have/use what was the best rotation of those skills and so on and so fourth. Its things like this for me that have ruined most MMO's for me because all the guess work of actual trial and error is taken out of the equation. You could say well thats just something thats time consuming and you could still end up with the same build without it which is true but it takes all the experience you gain out of learning that on a personal level.
Its just some what gotten to a point in every MMO i play I can pretty much guess what to expect I never really have to put any thought into it its all already done. Hell even in firefall the game I've currently been taking for a test drive they tell you right on the gun what its dps is. In all honesty I just want to be challenged I want the chance of their being a failure (no not due to some enrage timer that means the boss will AoE one shot everyone within 2 minutes if you don't kill it) I mean make players actually have to think about the fight. Make the bosses have a weak point that does extra damage or is the only place the boss takes damage.
They need to stop rehashing out all these same stagnant types of encounters and invent something new. Its gotten old and maybe my perspective on gaming has as well but I had a lot more fun playing old games I died in constantly cause I couldn't figure out something or would get stuck in because I couldn't find the right path or figure out some sort of puzzle to progress further. It just seems like the more mmos I try and the newer they are I keep finding myself just going through the cycles of rinse repeat to every encounter any more with minor differences. One boss goes immune spawns adds at 80% hp one boss throws up a reflective buff at 75% hp one boss spawns adds that cast physical and magical defensive debuffs so on and so fourth and the list goes on and on. Most people that have played a good amount of Content in Numerous MMOs will know what I mean its gotten predictable very predictable and its been a good long while since someone has been brave enough to actually try something fairly innovative from what I've seen.
Long rant ...
Show us your hard mode raids achievement. I doubt you have it. Better yet, you are so l33t, where is your world first raid kill?
This topic is not about "stagnant types" of encounters. If you don't like them, or find them boring .. fine. Don't complain they are easy unless you can do them all, which i doubt. In fact, i doubt you can do them all even if you watch all the youtube strategy video.
Ok well let me reiterate what I mean by being too easy and having too much hand holding in gaming nowadays next time you and you raiding buddies are going to do some hard mode raid in WoW try it this way with some new content or raid they add. Remove all the Numbers from your UI your hp amount mana anything that indicates a buff or debuff icon and cool down for your skills or whatever as well as any addons like dps meters and the like. Also pull that Tab button off your keyboard and don't you a voice chat program. Don't watch any videos of the fight either to see how to do it go in there fresh without ever having seen one piece of the new raid. This will be the hardest that raid will ever get in your time in trying it the very first time you run through it thats it it can only get easier from here.
Basically still all you'll have to do is figure out the timing of that encounter thats all its gonna boil down to no matter what difficulty mode you set it on. I can figure out within one fight of pretty much any boss in most current MMO's whats gonna happen within that first enounter. I could tell you at 25% hp he's gonna go into a frenzie mode making him hit (insert random % here) harder and taking (random %) less damage. He'll cast (random skill) every 5 physical attacks and so on and so fourth.
For me what I mean by too easy is its far to easy to break down especially with all the extra bells and whistles in MMOs nowadays. And as others have said in most cases alls they do is give a stat buff to the boss gimping your own character stats which just means if theres higher stat gear available its a time sink to just grind up to that gear it doesn't make the encounter more difficult. Frankly I've never played WoW never will either especially with that communities mentality and how they view themselves as well as other gamers especially with the l33t nonsence you keep referring to bashing others that have valid arguements about games being too easy.
The fact is easy or hard is subjective to each individual and for games like WoW where its all statistically based upon stats of your equipment being the main factor in most encounters means to me "time sink" its just a grind till I can have better stats that make the encounter easier. I mean that is why you run that difficulty correct? for better stated equipment to make it easier as well as be ready for whatever new raid that requires you to have higher stats to complete so you can get that even higher stated peices of equipment?
For me thats just a numbers game and also a bit of timing is required but as I said remove all those other hand holding tools on the next bit of new content and try the raid on normal mode and see how well you fair through it. I'll bet you don't just roll through and face tank it on a normal setting without all that stuff to hold your hand on the way through it.
Master on Skyrim is not that hard its almost easy mode.
Now you have legendary mode for Skyrim and that give alot more challenge many mobs now one shot me if im not carefull but still playable, i just have to be more carefull use surroundings more, take cover behind rocks/trees, heal up more offen and defences, kite alot ext.
Nightmare lvl on DAO also rather easy.
Two Worlds hardmode was also a challenge and not easy at all.
I remembered when they released for first time in Asheron's call2 the weeping bloodstones and waraths before hero patch so many complained was almost impoisble to kill mobs so hard and difficult, but i loved it it was one of few mmo's ive experienced real hard challenges Boots dungeon run at time was famous for it so hard to run that dungeon and kill boss.
But for some maybe master or nightmare on those game hard and some easy it all depends on what player you are and how much experience you have, are you young and quickly with keyboard mouse or old and slow hehe.
Im old game who started at launch Darkfall1 i just adepted for my age by playing more carefull amd pay alot attetion to my surroundings.
The Witcher 2 had some real challenge after hardmode when you played darkmode free that was not easy at all for me at least.
Hand hold in games and ezmode in most mmo's i hate specially with themeparks BAH:(
Ok well let me reiterate what I mean by being too easy and having too much hand holding in gaming nowadays next time you and you raiding buddies are going to do some hard mode raid in WoW try it this way with some new content or raid they add. Remove all the Numbers from your UI your hp amount mana anything that indicates a buff or debuff icon and cool down for your skills or whatever as well as any addons like dps meters and the like. Also pull that Tab button off your keyboard and don't you a voice chat program. Don't watch any videos of the fight either to see how to do it go in there fresh without ever having seen one piece of the new raid. This will be the hardest that raid will ever get in your time in trying it the very first time you run through it thats it it can only get easier from here.
Again, show us your hard mode acheivement.
Even WITHOUT all these stuff you talk about (getting rid of numbers, no voice chat ...), i highly doubt you can beat any of this.
The point is this .. i am not disagreeing that what you say can make it harder. The point is that it is ALREADY hard enough. Go watch the youtube video. Can you duplicate what is done in them? Give us some proof.
It's probably not a good idea to compare things with single player games. I think many people who go at a single player game just pick the difficulty setting that is recommended to them (or don't bother picking one at all), play the game and move on to another game entirely, without replaying it on a higher setting.
I personally did the same thing anyhow, until I started playing Dragon Age / Mass Effect on the highest difficulty. Since then I usually start at a higher difficulty, which has enriched my gaming experience considerably (as things last you much longer, and epic fights are truly epic).
In the case of MMO's, I most certainly think that they do suffer from being "too easy". But even more than that, I think devs and players alike suffer from the illusion that an MMO needs to be easy (in terms of gameplay), or otherwise people will give up fast.
In my opinion, there are significant niches out there for players who yearn for a tougher game, or even just for players who aren't very good, but would still try to see how far they'd get in in a tough game. The success of something like DayZ partly proves that for me.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
It's probably not a good idea to compare things with single player games. I think many people who go at a single player game just pick the difficulty setting that is recommended to them (or don't bother picking one at all), play the game and move on to another game entirely, without replaying it on a higher setting.
True. I do play on much more challenging option in D3 .. but in games like Bioshock, i go for "casual" because i want to see the story fast, and move on.
In the case of MMO's, I most certainly think that they do suffer from being "too easy". But even more than that, I think devs and players alike suffer from the illusion that an MMO needs to be easy (in terms of gameplay), or otherwise people will give up fast.
The fact that the MMO with the most sub has easy leveling shows that it is not an illusion.
In my opinion, there are significant niches out there for players who yearn for a tougher game, or even just for players who aren't very good, but would still try to see how far they'd get in in a tough game. The success of something like DayZ partly proves that for me.
But DayZ is missing all the other players. Just put in an option. Diablo3 sold 12M ... and many probably play the easymode doing MP0. However, there are also a lot (just check diabloprogress), who play hardcore mode on high MP.
Sorry to bust the crusader's bubble... but if a game has a "hard mode"... the it also has an "easy mode"..
A game that offers a choice, is not a hard game... a super-easy game, that has a few instances that one can choose "hard" = funny.. that is why EQ got "funny" with Lost Dungeons of Norrath. Because that is when SOE started to cater to little boys and their fragile egoes.
Same newbies who bought EQ character's for thousands of dollars, then rage-quite when they couldn't compete with the older EQ players. So they got on the forums and wanted an easier game, so their ego was protected more... due to their own inadaquacies.
"Easy mode" is for people who are unable to challenge themselves.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
Agree with many of the posters. Just because you can set a game to a gimmickly obscene hardmode that didn't even get tested by the devs doesn't mean the game itself is hard.
I don't consider EQ Classic hard, most do because of the harsh death penalties and obscenely long level grinds. None of that requires brain cells to fire, semi intelligent AI does. Requiring constantly reactive combat does, etc.
- maxed lvl at low zone, - maxed CS gear, - play this game for X years and done and re-done all hard stuff X time, - you are and epic gamer who found just one more clone of X game.
to me HARD is when:
- you are not well equipped, - you are new to this game / any game, - you use a hard mod / new to raid
after we have *short* and *long* IMO, like 10 min to kill boss is it hard or just long? and what about 30 min?
other way all is individual, so if you feel like all is too easy for you, may be try something else instate?
try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises. Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2
after we have *short* and *long* IMO, like 10 min to kill boss is it hard or just long? and what about 30 min?
other way all is individual, so if you feel like all is too easy for you, may be try something else instate?
Time does not matter. It is the chance of success. If it takes 30 min but there is no chance of failure, then it is not hard. However, even if it just take 20 sec, if you fail a lot, and any mistake can cost a wipe, then it is hard.
Best example is a Diablo 3 elite fight (on high MP). With the "right" affix, it can kill you in 5 seconds. It is much harder than many of the WOW .. much longer .. but infinitely easier fights.
And yes, it is all individual, thus a difficulty option like the MP levels in D3 is good design.
Comments
I did play KoA on hard, it was the only difficulty mode I did play on, and it was still way too easy. I don't mind that games have an easy mode, or that most people play on that mode, but when you include a hard mode, make it hard! Oh, and unless hard mode is a new game+, don't lock it behind behind normal mode. I do not want to have to drudge through your game (in some cases multiple times) before it becomes worth playing.
On the subject of MMOs being too easy; when you can do content faster solo than you can in a group it's too easy. That's not to say that there should be no solo content, but it should be challenging enough that if I see someone else doing that same content I should want to group up with them... in most MMOs recently grouping is basically a burden.
Difficulty is in the eye of the beholder. Otherwise, MP levels won't be so popular in D3. You can't assume all other players want (or enjoy) the same level of challenge as you do. And i am also quite sure you are no where close to the skill of the Paragon guys.
Hence .. multiple levels of difficulty is going to be an important design factor.
You just skip over posts, that directly rebuttal all your nonsense.. & Narius you continue on, like we aren't waiting for you to try and redeem your honor. People are starting to laugh @ you on other websites dude... ur troll is getting ruined by logic and you can't rebuttal, so you skip... run from post that completely thwart your pseudo logic.
Nothing you claim is true, we can read all your post history dude & how you squirm out of posts.
Secondly.. & once again... ur asking us to "look away from non-mmo games".^.. for you to try and make a distant point, that has zero relevence here within this thread. PLEASE STOP TROLLING!
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
Not sure where you heard that, but thats completely false.
Not sure if this post should be reported.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I put him on "ignore". Do report him. I clearly would not mind. But i found that it is a free world .. and the ignore button works very well.
Not sure if this post should be reported.
Ya he's just stating what everyone who visits here already knows. Antagonists love to bait others in hopes they can get the victim a temporary ban. Happens all the time at MMORPG. Some people live to grief others.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Indeed that seems to be the way a lot of folks like to behave around here. But, I'm not sure how some of the more obvious ones seem to float under the mod radar and for such a long time. Some of the users here are as transparent as a freshly cleaned window.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Under the radar..? I think the word you are looking for is collusion... lol
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
Kinda have to dissagree with it being a myth or whatever because when I don't have to step back and think at all anymore or even attempt to strategize during some encounter its become to easy. Lets face theres alot of hand holding in MMO now aday's and tons of tools that help to do just that. Take a DPS meter addon for instance lets just say this thing was never ever invented ever and never will be for gaming. How well do you think alot of people would do without these that used them so furvently to find out the best way to play any one specific character. Which were the best skills to have/use what was the best rotation of those skills and so on and so fourth. Its things like this for me that have ruined most MMO's for me because all the guess work of actual trial and error is taken out of the equation. You could say well thats just something thats time consuming and you could still end up with the same build without it which is true but it takes all the experience you gain out of learning that on a personal level.
Its just some what gotten to a point in every MMO i play I can pretty much guess what to expect I never really have to put any thought into it its all already done. Hell even in firefall the game I've currently been taking for a test drive they tell you right on the gun what its dps is. In all honesty I just want to be challenged I want the chance of their being a failure (no not due to some enrage timer that means the boss will AoE one shot everyone within 2 minutes if you don't kill it) I mean make players actually have to think about the fight. Make the bosses have a weak point that does extra damage or is the only place the boss takes damage.
They need to stop rehashing out all these same stagnant types of encounters and invent something new. Its gotten old and maybe my perspective on gaming has as well but I had a lot more fun playing old games I died in constantly cause I couldn't figure out something or would get stuck in because I couldn't find the right path or figure out some sort of puzzle to progress further. It just seems like the more mmos I try and the newer they are I keep finding myself just going through the cycles of rinse repeat to every encounter any more with minor differences. One boss goes immune spawns adds at 80% hp one boss throws up a reflective buff at 75% hp one boss spawns adds that cast physical and magical defensive debuffs so on and so fourth and the list goes on and on. Most people that have played a good amount of Content in Numerous MMOs will know what I mean its gotten predictable very predictable and its been a good long while since someone has been brave enough to actually try something fairly innovative from what I've seen.
Long rant ...
Show us your hard mode raids achievement. I doubt you have it. Better yet, you are so l33t, where is your world first raid kill?
This topic is not about "stagnant types" of encounters. If you don't like them, or find them boring .. fine. Don't complain they are easy unless you can do them all, which i doubt. In fact, i doubt you can do them all even if you watch all the youtube strategy video.
I played Age fo Empires II (HD) today on Hard mode.. & Hardest mode. But like so many other games, these are not a MMORPGs.
If a game has a "hard mode" ,etc.. then it is an arcade game & hardly worth discussing on a MMORPG forum, right? Becuase we all know "easy" isn't a myth, it is the rule.
" Easy" is used to harbor all the adolecent minds.. until they grow up mentally and wish for more of a challenge. If a game is 90% easy, but has 10% of the content can be played at the hardest level possible.. still doesn't make the game easy. Just makes those instances easy/hard..
If a game has a difficulty setting, then it is an Arcade game, not a MMORPG.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
Ok well let me reiterate what I mean by being too easy and having too much hand holding in gaming nowadays next time you and you raiding buddies are going to do some hard mode raid in WoW try it this way with some new content or raid they add. Remove all the Numbers from your UI your hp amount mana anything that indicates a buff or debuff icon and cool down for your skills or whatever as well as any addons like dps meters and the like. Also pull that Tab button off your keyboard and don't you a voice chat program. Don't watch any videos of the fight either to see how to do it go in there fresh without ever having seen one piece of the new raid. This will be the hardest that raid will ever get in your time in trying it the very first time you run through it thats it it can only get easier from here.
Basically still all you'll have to do is figure out the timing of that encounter thats all its gonna boil down to no matter what difficulty mode you set it on. I can figure out within one fight of pretty much any boss in most current MMO's whats gonna happen within that first enounter. I could tell you at 25% hp he's gonna go into a frenzie mode making him hit (insert random % here) harder and taking (random %) less damage. He'll cast (random skill) every 5 physical attacks and so on and so fourth.
For me what I mean by too easy is its far to easy to break down especially with all the extra bells and whistles in MMOs nowadays. And as others have said in most cases alls they do is give a stat buff to the boss gimping your own character stats which just means if theres higher stat gear available its a time sink to just grind up to that gear it doesn't make the encounter more difficult. Frankly I've never played WoW never will either especially with that communities mentality and how they view themselves as well as other gamers especially with the l33t nonsence you keep referring to bashing others that have valid arguements about games being too easy.
The fact is easy or hard is subjective to each individual and for games like WoW where its all statistically based upon stats of your equipment being the main factor in most encounters means to me "time sink" its just a grind till I can have better stats that make the encounter easier. I mean that is why you run that difficulty correct? for better stated equipment to make it easier as well as be ready for whatever new raid that requires you to have higher stats to complete so you can get that even higher stated peices of equipment?
For me thats just a numbers game and also a bit of timing is required but as I said remove all those other hand holding tools on the next bit of new content and try the raid on normal mode and see how well you fair through it. I'll bet you don't just roll through and face tank it on a normal setting without all that stuff to hold your hand on the way through it.
Master on Skyrim is not that hard its almost easy mode.
Now you have legendary mode for Skyrim and that give alot more challenge many mobs now one shot me if im not carefull but still playable, i just have to be more carefull use surroundings more, take cover behind rocks/trees, heal up more offen and defences, kite alot ext.
Nightmare lvl on DAO also rather easy.
Two Worlds hardmode was also a challenge and not easy at all.
I remembered when they released for first time in Asheron's call2 the weeping bloodstones and waraths before hero patch so many complained was almost impoisble to kill mobs so hard and difficult, but i loved it it was one of few mmo's ive experienced real hard challenges Boots dungeon run at time was famous for it so hard to run that dungeon and kill boss.
But for some maybe master or nightmare on those game hard and some easy it all depends on what player you are and how much experience you have, are you young and quickly with keyboard mouse or old and slow hehe.
Im old game who started at launch Darkfall1 i just adepted for my age by playing more carefull amd pay alot attetion to my surroundings.
The Witcher 2 had some real challenge after hardmode when you played darkmode free that was not easy at all for me at least.
Hand hold in games and ezmode in most mmo's i hate specially with themeparks BAH:(
Again, show us your hard mode acheivement.
Even WITHOUT all these stuff you talk about (getting rid of numbers, no voice chat ...), i highly doubt you can beat any of this.
The point is this .. i am not disagreeing that what you say can make it harder. The point is that it is ALREADY hard enough. Go watch the youtube video. Can you duplicate what is done in them? Give us some proof.
It's probably not a good idea to compare things with single player games. I think many people who go at a single player game just pick the difficulty setting that is recommended to them (or don't bother picking one at all), play the game and move on to another game entirely, without replaying it on a higher setting.
I personally did the same thing anyhow, until I started playing Dragon Age / Mass Effect on the highest difficulty. Since then I usually start at a higher difficulty, which has enriched my gaming experience considerably (as things last you much longer, and epic fights are truly epic).
In the case of MMO's, I most certainly think that they do suffer from being "too easy". But even more than that, I think devs and players alike suffer from the illusion that an MMO needs to be easy (in terms of gameplay), or otherwise people will give up fast.
In my opinion, there are significant niches out there for players who yearn for a tougher game, or even just for players who aren't very good, but would still try to see how far they'd get in in a tough game. The success of something like DayZ partly proves that for me.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Sorry to bust the crusader's bubble... but if a game has a "hard mode"... the it also has an "easy mode"..
A game that offers a choice, is not a hard game... a super-easy game, that has a few instances that one can choose "hard" = funny.. that is why EQ got "funny" with Lost Dungeons of Norrath. Because that is when SOE started to cater to little boys and their fragile egoes.
Same newbies who bought EQ character's for thousands of dollars, then rage-quite when they couldn't compete with the older EQ players. So they got on the forums and wanted an easier game, so their ego was protected more... due to their own inadaquacies.
"Easy mode" is for people who are unable to challenge themselves.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
IMO a game that offers a choice between easy and hard is just as easy as it is hard. It's your choice.
That being said some games that have hard mode are still easy.
Been playing skyrim again recently on legendary. It's still pretty dang easy.
Playing on easy mode has nothing do with being "unable" to challenge themselves. It depends on why they are playing.
Sometimes I'm in a mood for a real fight, a challenge. Other times I just want to relax and mine for awhile.
That is also the point of having options. Moods change. Games should be both easy and hard.
As in plural.. so there should be both easy & hard games. (Not just easy games w/hard mode..)
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
Agree with many of the posters. Just because you can set a game to a gimmickly obscene hardmode that didn't even get tested by the devs doesn't mean the game itself is hard.
I don't consider EQ Classic hard, most do because of the harsh death penalties and obscenely long level grinds. None of that requires brain cells to fire, semi intelligent AI does. Requiring constantly reactive combat does, etc.
to me EASY is when you are:
- maxed lvl at low zone,
- maxed CS gear,
- play this game for X years and done and re-done all hard stuff X time,
- you are and epic gamer who found just one more clone of X game.
to me HARD is when:
- you are not well equipped,
- you are new to this game / any game,
- you use a hard mod / new to raid
after we have *short* and *long* IMO, like 10 min to kill boss is it hard or just long? and what about 30 min?
other way all is individual, so if you feel like all is too easy for you, may be try something else instate?
try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2
Time does not matter. It is the chance of success. If it takes 30 min but there is no chance of failure, then it is not hard. However, even if it just take 20 sec, if you fail a lot, and any mistake can cost a wipe, then it is hard.
Best example is a Diablo 3 elite fight (on high MP). With the "right" affix, it can kill you in 5 seconds. It is much harder than many of the WOW .. much longer .. but infinitely easier fights.
And yes, it is all individual, thus a difficulty option like the MP levels in D3 is good design.