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10 people are kicking the guy, guess I should too
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Whose fault is it for not paying attention and thinking they said black when in fact they said white?
Here's a link to the original Game Informer reveal of the MMO on May 3, 2012: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/05/03/june-cover-revealed-the-elder-scrolls-online.aspx
Notice the "... player-driven PvP conflict that pits the three player factions against each other in open-world warfare over the province of Cyrodiil and the Emperor's throne itself." part?
Then there were more details right here a few days after that: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/6384/ThreeFaction-PVP-a-la-DAOC.html
I guess people who speculated, assumed or fantasized about what TES online would be like may be dissapointed. Those of us who just read and listened to what they were saying have known for almost a year what was coming.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
No the agenda, if one put any thought into it (and if there is even an "agenda") is the desire for the game to be more like the elder scrolls games.
No one ver said anything about wow. Well, except you.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
er, doesn't that knife cut both ways?
What I see here (aside from the compromise that the developers made) are suggestions by some that would allow people their 3 faction war and then allow everyone else to explore the world as a TES game. Except some players are so desirous of a RvRvR game that this compromise is not acceptable to them. They insist it will hurt faction pride when some don't care about faction pride. They just want to play in the Elder Srcolls world.
Especially to those who don't even care about pvp.
Just a thought.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Its not so weak once you have the one-handed crossbow mod and sword on other hand playing like van helsing or something lol
Yeah great. Pointless endgame back-and-forth PvP. Sounds like fail, to me. See you on these forums complaining about TESO three months after launch, 'kay buddy? And you will probably be the one rejoicing about the inevitable layoffs that will hit the TESO team once Zeni realizes they've got a SWTOR/Tabula Rasa on their hands. *thumbs-up!*
I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.
The OP sorta proposes there's a small cabal here that wants to pervert the glorious design of the game. I personally think he's got it totally backward. That there's a small group who likes the very traditional aspect of the mechanical design, and a very large group that is uninterested or unhappy with it. And I think Zenimax is getting that message in feedback from their various avenues of information, across the broad spectrum of game players.
I don't know a soul who's looking forward to this game based on its RvRvR set up. Every...single....one is going 'Oooh, Elder Scrolls game!'. A design based on a pat formula of end game RvR play isn't going to get them to buy this game. So every developer decision based on that is, generally, of neutral value, and at worst, is a negative.
And the 'Game designers know best.....Grow up' argument is kinda ludacrous. Many, many examples of just the opposite.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
You misinterpreted my post -- likely my fault for not being clear. My point was 20 minutes is just 20 minutes and I don't value either posters opinion greatly based on zero or 20 minutes of gameplay. I understand you value the 20 minute guy's statements more, I just don't. We have different opinions there on these fellows and that's fine.
Still, I do wish you had kept the original, longer post.
I learned long ago that how much I enjoy a game has no relation whatsoever to the things people say on this site. I do like the information I get here but the sum of opinions from the staff and other posters here never really correlate well with how much I enjoy any game.
These problems and issues many are having in this thread, they aren't the same problems and issues that will actually cause those of us who actually buy and play it to not like the game. They aren't the things that will make many people stop playing the game in frustration. That will be a different set of problems we will see a month or two after release when we are all familiar with the game on a much more fundamental level.
You forgot "...and then a giant meteor will wipe out all life on earth"
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
They designed a game a certain way... I like it. No compromise required. We're not co-designing and trying to reach consensus. Their game ... their way. Just wtf is wrong with that?
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Game designers don't have to know best. For 90% of MMOs today, I pass. No one is taking away your right to decide what you spend your money on. You can hate it.
Trying to change it to suit your personal taste? Making feeble arguments about why your way is better than theirs? Invoking "lore" to try to make your opinion seem righteous? That's a different story.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
hmmm because the first thing that springs to mind when you think SWTOR is "continuos back and forth PVP" ?!?!?!?!?!
Having done this, I have zero expectation of it sinking in and perhaps even seeing this post reported as trolling like all non-troll posts do while the actual trolls remain.
Nothing posted here in defense of DaoC gameplay is going to change the massive amounts of outrage going on across TES related websites nor remove the corporate level worry going on about it. Either the game is changed or heads roll afterwards from the developers right on up to the CEO that has a lot riding on this game and he was lied to that the TES name alone would get the millions of fans to play the game.
"massive outrage"... "corporate worry"... "heads will roll"... "was lied to"...oh my.
I think your crystal ball needs a tune-up.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
E.g. linear quest to quest hand held pve where you can't just wander off and find stuff to do
I snipped out all the other stuff because it's to damn big now. I left one part in. I clearly said IF you have to have PvP, which you don't imho.
All your post here says is that you think there has to be RvR and therefore you have to split up the world into factions. TBH your description of entirely different classes in different realms and narrowly defined classes is exactly what DAoC used. This game is DAoC2 with name changes.
Again you stick to the same old song and make it all about RvR. You completely ignore the problems with PvE restrictions and class restrictions.
PvP or 3 realm RvR can take a running jump for all I care. I don't see why it needs to included at all. If it does though, I'd rather see a system that suits TES games and not a copy of DAoC's RvR with name changes. And I'm a DAoC fan, loved it until ToA ruined everything.
I don't need to come up with a working solution to point out the problems with the current one. And again you fixate on RvR. I did already make some suggestions which you also overlooked. I'll give them to you again. If you want to keep 3 faction RvR in as an end game incentive to keep players logging in then a) make it optional by allowing players to choose to join the faction. If they decline, they are now free to explore the PvE world freely. or b) allow players to leave the alliance, again allowing free PvE exploration.
It's just the inclusion of that choice to participate in Alliance based RvR or to opt out that's missing. That would resolve the PvE problems I've highlighted.
The other problem is with the narrow class definitions, something that has nothing at all to do with RvR. But again you brush that off and blame all the opposition on the "RvR - It's DAoC" complaints.
Where is there a problem with my proposals so far? Why are Zenimax's ideas so much better when they have absolutely fuck all to do with an Elder Scrolls game and are, in point of fact, a blatant copy of a 13 year old game? I'm taking an honest look and I still think they're making a mistake.
So before you blow this one off and start fixating on RvR again I'd really like you to do something for me. I want you to just think for a few minutes and then explain to me why there can't be an option to not belong to an alliance, something that will allow a player to play the PvE game anywhere in the world instead of being restricted to just that one section where his starting point alliance is based? Just one good reason, that's all. If Zenimax are so great with their ideas then there must be a good one, right? So lets hear it.
And while you're at it, explain to me why we have to have narrowly defined classes which are nothing like the way characters could freely develop in the SRPG's. And before you say anything about balancing RvR, I'd just like to point out if you go down that route, you're just reinforcing the idea that Zenimax are copying DAoC. Because if there wasn't RvR there'd be no need for balancing. Think about that.
I'm all in favour of being able to wander off to find stuff to do. But I can't because of the faction locking. And before you accuse me of wanting all PvP removed, I've already suggested an option for each character to opt out of RvR to allow them the freedom to wander off looking for stuff to do. You can still have your PvP, but let those that want to explore the whole world have that option.
These people won't take part in the RvR anyway if they're that opposed to PvP so what difference would it make?
If so many here, are not happy with the design of the game as it stands. Why not all of you get together and make a mod with the skyrim mod creator that would approximate the same concept?
Instead of creating boobs that bounce,mostly non-exsistant female armors and weapons. Mod High Rock,Hammerfell,Morrowind, and all other known areas from the TES games with new quest and teasures from the time line of Skyrim, as one seamless playable area?
It seams to me that a lot of gamers need to take a vacation from gaming of 6 months or more because of burn out, as games are a HOBBY just as watching movies,reading books,constructing models,and woodworking are HOBBIES.
Absolutely nothing. And it is their game and they get to design it however they want.
just responding on your bit about "compromise". And maybe there are more compromises down the road. Doubt it but there very well could be.Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Have you ever played an Elder Scrolls game?
the quests are linear and the meat of how you play it is "wander off and find stuff to do".
I would go so far as to suggest that a good many elder scrolls players are NOT looking for wow game play.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
The agenda is remove all pvp or ghetto it off into crappy little minigames, so they can have a vanilla wow experience
read between the lines.
no, that's the way you see it. i see it as them not forcing people to pvp but still making it an option.
vanilla wow only had open pvp anyways, on their pvp servers with battlegrounds being patched in later.
that is nothing like what this game will have when i read between the lines.
it may not be innovative or a fresh new idea but it certainly isn't like what vanilla wow had, or wow at any point for that matter.
the pvp seems more like Daoc or GW2 minus the battlegrounds.
also, their pvp area (from what i have read) will also have pve quests and dungeons.
that's also not like wow. so, the only thing you can say the pvp system is wow like, is the fact that its optional.
in wow you either pick a pvp server or you join the battlegrounds or arenas.
ive read your posts before saying that they are just trying to be like wow but sorry, i don't really see the logic.
no arenas,battlegrounds, or open pvp servers. if they are indeed just trying to be like wow with their pvp system, they are doing a shitty job of it.
Actually "the number 7" will never equal "the number 8". Numbers in gernal are symbols to show quantity. The number 7 could be called shit and the number 8 could be called piss in another universe but they would still show that there is a specific quanitity of something that they are refearing to.
An example being say you have 2 cars. You could call "the number 2" any assortment of words sounds or phrases but the quntitiy of the cars you have will stay what is refeared to us as 2. The amount of cars will never increase simply because the word used to define how many cars you have is changed.
So no, you are 100% wrong about 7 = 8 in some other universe.
Basically you are saying PvE only. OK. So what's your endgame? Because they cant possibly create enough material for a Skyrim-online game with exploration and levelling month after month for years. So are you suggesting a raid-based endgame like WoW? Because I am not sure its a good business model to try to out-WoW WoW. Game after game has tried that and failed. For whatever reason, WoW seems very successful at keeping the raid crowd subscribing. I think ESO read the writing on the wall and tried to have a different endgame, a RvR endgame that has not been done well since the heyday of DAoC., and provide that to the market as a different option to the raid endgame or PvP in battlegrounds of WoW.
Obviously you would have designed a different game than they are doing. Fair enough. But for half a decade or more games have been trying to offer what WoW does and steal much of their huge market share, and they have mostly failed. Like it or not, thats the way it is. These guys are putting down tens of millions of dollars, and I dont blame them for taking the approach they did. If you want a PvE based endgame, obviously this isnt the game for you, just the way WoW and some others arent the game for me.
And BTW, I dont think ESO has narrow class definitions, in fact they have the most flexible system I have seen. DAoC has extremely narrow class definitions, which is just one of the many ways these games will differ. As far as seeing the lands in other realms, it looks like they will allow that in post-50 play, and of course you are welcome to re-roll in the other realm. I'm really not sure what else can be said. The bottom line is that a game needs to take an approach and try to do it well, and not be all things to all people because then they end up doing lots of things but none of them especially well. But it is what it is, and if you dont like it, well there are lots of MMORPGs with PvE endgames and there is always the next ES RPG.
Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC
But there will never be enough 'wonder off and do stuff in a MMORPG' material, they simply cant create it fast enough. ESPECIALLY when you factor in levelling, and they cant do what they did in the elder scrolls where they automatically had all the material level along with you, so that every nook and cranny could be level-appropriate. That cant work well in a MMORPG obviously so it makes the job that much harder. And you play Skyrim for what, a month or two? And then run out of stuff to do. Which obviously doesnt keep people subscribing to a MMORPG. The bottom line is that its impossible to create Skyrim online and make money off of it, without adding some sort of a MMORPG endgame. SWTOR was a pretty good game without an endgame and look what happened there. No sensible investor is going to repeat that.
Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC
Exposure to gameplay versus none whatsoever, I'll take the guy with at least some exposure at his word over that of some second guessing fanatic.