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BSC Stealth Speculation

TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless ColumnistM, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon

It's been a while since I got one of these going. So, what does everyone think the BSC stealth idea might be?

I was thinking that "stealth" might actually not be class based, but rather a skill every class has that can be used every so often but with major consequences.

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Comments

  • TumblebutzTumblebutz Henderson, NVPosts: 322Member

    I doubt it will be available to everyone, althought I suppose that is a possibility. 

    My thought was that it would be 100% terrain based... not really "invisibility" but more like a "mimic" ability.  MJ had mentioned the terrain being dynamic and changing over time.  This would lend itself well to a skill which allowed "stealthers" to "mimic" terrain items (trees, bushes, rocks, etc) rather than going invisible.

    Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival

    RED IS DEAD!

  • grogstormgrogstorm Peyton, COPosts: 304Member Uncommon

    I love the idea where every class has the skill.  If so, I would like to see the armor someone is wearing affect the quality / duration of the stealth.  Awesome thought.

    Grog

  • MortifyMortify None of your BusinessPosts: 95Member
    what does BSC mean?

    Methos, Armsman, EU Excalibur
    Jager, Infiltrator, EU Excalibur
    Phos, Cleric, EU Excalibur
    Mortify, Sorcerer, EU Excalibur

  • BeggarKingBeggarKing BirminghamPosts: 15Member
    Originally posted by Mortify
    what does BSC mean?

    Bat Sh** Crazy... And I doubt very much all classes get a stealth ability as MJ has shown his preference to pure classes rather than mixing abilities of one into the other. If he makes a stealther then I'm sure it will be pure stealth but we just don't know what his vision of stealth is yet as he clearly wants to change it up from the classic way of doing it. Archers will be different as well  from as best we can deduce from hints here and there making mention of "camouflage " and that camouflage and stealth are different things.

  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    -raises hand- uhhmm... isn't speculating about what stealth system a game might use in 2-3 maybe 4 year's time a bit pointless? I mean unless the team says something definitive wouldn't debate be better withheld for topics which have details released on them? (details which are not tangential btw).

    image
  • meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon
    We know Mark passionately hates stealthers, so I'm guessing the BSC idea is that when you go into stealth your health goes to 1% and when you come out of stealth you get a 1 minute debuff that prevents you from using combat abilities.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • UOloverUOlover Mullica Hill, NJPosts: 327Member Common
    Stealth never killed anyone. It's the other stuff that they add to it that's OP. 
  • Ugh, I can just imagine the pain of everyone being a stealther. As if just a few stealthers weren't bad enough :)
  • TumblebutzTumblebutz Henderson, NVPosts: 322Member
    Originally posted by meddyck
    We know Mark passionately hates stealthers...

    Really?  How do we know that, again?  Nevermind, don't answer that.  I don't want to derail the thread.

    Back on topic: I can't possibly imagine everyone will have access to "stealth," even in a watered down form.  I really think the "BSC" part will be in a complete departure from the traditional idea of stealth.

    Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival

    RED IS DEAD!

  • MarkJacobsMarkJacobs CEO City State Entertainment Fairfax, VAPosts: 468Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by meddyck
    We know Mark passionately hates stealthers, so I'm guessing the BSC idea is that when you go into stealth your health goes to 1% and when you come out of stealth you get a 1 minute debuff that prevents you from using combat abilities.

    Not hardly. I've just said that I have a love/hate relationship with them and they have, at times, been the bane of my existence. :) I've even played stealthers but not in PvP games and frankly, if I passionately hated stealthing I wouldn't bother putting this much time in thinking about them to try to fit them into CU.

    Originally posted by Tumblebutz

    Originally posted by meddyck
    We know Mark passionately hates stealthers...

    Really?  How do we know that, again?  Nevermind, don't answer that.  I don't want to derail the thread.

    Back on topic: I can't possibly imagine everyone will have access to "stealth," even in a watered down form.  I really think the "BSC" part will be in a complete departure from the traditional idea of stealth.

    Stealth for everyone is another BSC idea but it really won't happen in CU. As far as my idea being a departure from stealth in all MMORPGs that I am aware of, yes, it is.

    Mark Jacobs
    CEO, City State Entertainment

  • SpeelySpeely Seattle, WAPosts: 861Member
    Mark, I double-dig-dog DARE you to just tell us what it is! GO!

    ;)
  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by MarkJacobs

    Originally posted by meddyck We know Mark passionately hates stealthers, so I'm guessing the BSC idea is that when you go into stealth your health goes to 1% and when you come out of stealth you get a 1 minute debuff that prevents you from using combat abilities.Not hardly. I've just said that I have a love/hate relationship with them and they have, at times, been the bane of my existence. :) I've even played stealthers but not in PvP games and frankly, if I passionately hated stealthing I wouldn't bother putting this much time in thinking about them to try to fit them into CU.

    Originally posted by Tumblebutz Originally posted by meddyck We know Mark passionately hates stealthers...
    Really?  How do we know that, again?  Nevermind, don't answer that.  I don't want to derail the thread. Back on topic: I can't possibly imagine everyone will have access to "stealth," even in a watered down form.  I really think the "BSC" part will be in a complete departure from the traditional idea of stealth.
    Stealth for everyone is another BSC idea but it really won't happen in CU. As far as my idea being a departure from stealth in all MMORPGs that I am aware of, yes, it is.

    Perhaps stealth is a suicide mission? You see, a spell as powerful as stealth must be very draining. It probably gives you a short term boost, and a long term drain. Once you hit the stealth timer you are invis (predator style) and your stats jack up but you have X amount of time to kill your opponent before the spell takes it's toll and you run out of steam leaving you briefly weakened?

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs

    Originally posted by Tumblebutz

    Originally posted by meddyck
    We know Mark passionately hates stealthers...

    Really?  How do we know that, again?  Nevermind, don't answer that.  I don't want to derail the thread.

    Back on topic: I can't possibly imagine everyone will have access to "stealth," even in a watered down form.  I really think the "BSC" part will be in a complete departure from the traditional idea of stealth.

    Stealth for everyone is another BSC idea but it really won't happen in CU. As far as my idea being a departure from stealth in all MMORPGs that I am aware of, yes, it is.

    Glad to see this MJ.

    Imho stealth has always been a crutch in MMO combat, or at best poorly designed. I'd rather either see maps with pleanty of areas you can hide behind / inside, or terrain-specific stealth mechanics.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tierless

    Perhaps stealth is a suicide mission? You see, a spell as powerful as stealth must be very draining. It probably gives you a short term boost, and a long term drain. Once you hit the stealth timer you are invis (predator style) and your stats jack up but you have X amount of time to kill your opponent before the spell takes it's toll and you run out of steam leaving you briefly weakened?

    Problem with that, as with most stealth mechanics, is you still run into this situation where one class is always either way too strong, or way too weak. Even if they kill themselves with stealth in the way you're describing, from every other player's perspective they're still getting killed before they can really do anything about it. That's just not very fun.

    Games have to be pretty careful about stealth mechanics in multiplayer. If you're going to have stealth, it needs a counter, and you need to make stealth classes non-reliant on stealth (so it's a choice, not a crutch). This way stealth doesn't become an automatic 'Iwin button', but rather a tactic you can use against unprepared players.

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by Tierless Perhaps stealth is a suicide mission? You see, a spell as powerful as stealth must be very draining. It probably gives you a short term boost, and a long term drain. Once you hit the stealth timer you are invis (predator style) and your stats jack up but you have X amount of time to kill your opponent before the spell takes it's toll and you run out of steam leaving you briefly weakened?
    Problem with that, as with most stealth mechanics, is you still run into this situation where one class is always either way too strong, or way too weak. Even if they kill themselves with stealth in the way you're describing, from every other player's perspective they're still getting killed before they can really do anything about it. That's just not very fun.

    Games have to be pretty careful about stealth mechanics in multiplayer. If you're going to have stealth, it needs a counter, and you need to make stealth classes non-reliant on stealth (so it's a choice, not a crutch). This way stealth doesn't become an automatic 'Iwin button', but rather a tactic you can use against unprepared players.


    Good point. I agree. I like battles that have some back and forth, I hate the DPS nuke over stuff.

  • WolvanWolvan New Lenox, ILPosts: 49Member
    Originally posted by Tumblebutz
    Originally posted by meddyck
    We know Mark passionately hates stealthers...

    Really?  How do we know that, again?  Nevermind, don't answer that.  I don't want to derail the thread.

    Back on topic: I can't possibly imagine everyone will have access to "stealth," even in a watered down form.  I really think the "BSC" part will be in a complete departure from the traditional idea of stealth.

     

     

    Emercy,

     

    Their was some supposed well known "quotes" back in the day of DAOC that was supposedly MJ ranting about how he hated stealthers (and shadowblades in particular since he played Albion mostly...again supposedly) and was going to nerf them into the ground.  (which he did somewhat heh).

    And when I asked about shadowblades at a Percival Player meet at the Mythic HQ's...he ducked and covered and passed it off to Macky.  Who loved Midgard SO much.

    Alot of the original quotes was hearsay...people took it as gospel but I don't remember seeing actual proof.  Might have been out their, but its been to long for me to remember.

    image

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Wolvan
    Originally posted by Tumblebutz Originally posted by meddyck We know Mark passionately hates stealthers...
    Really?  How do we know that, again?  Nevermind, don't answer that.  I don't want to derail the thread. Back on topic: I can't possibly imagine everyone will have access to "stealth," even in a watered down form.  I really think the "BSC" part will be in a complete departure from the traditional idea of stealth.
     

     

    Emercy,

     

    Their was some supposed well known "quotes" back in the day of DAOC that was supposedly MJ ranting about how he hated stealthers (and shadowblades in particular since he played Albion mostly...again supposedly) and was going to nerf them into the ground.  (which he did somewhat heh).

    And when I asked about shadowblades at a Percival Player meet at the Mythic HQ's...he ducked and covered and passed it off to Macky.  Who loved Midgard SO much.

    Alot of the original quotes was hearsay...people took it as gospel but I don't remember seeing actual proof.  Might have been out their, but its been to long for me to remember.


    This is the only stealther quote I found.

    "What is a stealther? Are they supposed to be ghosts? Some say they should just be transparent. Nobody ever believed they were BSC. Nobody ever knew them or saw anybody that ever played directly with them, but to hear Jacobs tell it, anybody could have been a stealther. You never knew. That was their power. The greatest trick the stealthers ever pulled was convincing the world they didn't exist."

  • MikeJezZMikeJezZ HillerødPosts: 1,197Member Uncommon

    I really don't see why any should have the stealth ability. I mean why roll a rogue then?

     

    Aw crap, I just got attacked by a plate guy hiding in the shadows.

    Playing ATM: Elder Scrolls Online, Diablo 3
    MMO's shelted: Check my mmorpg profile
    KICKSTARTED: Camelot Unchained. (250 USD)

  • SorninSornin Richmond, BCPosts: 1,133Member

    In my opinion, the only stealth worth doing would be to make it in the vein of a MOBA, like League of Legends, where you are concealed under certain circumstances. I do not mean lift it directly from LoL, but the spirit of that system actually makes sense.

    I have always had a large problem with classes able to walk across an empty field in broad daylight while fully stealthed. To me, that is not stealth, but invisibility, which are two different things. Stealth is being sneaky, using cover and line of sight to stay hidden, whereas invisibility is actually making your body vanish to the naked eye.

    If classes with stealth, or perhaps everyone, could stealth while in shadows, or thick brush, or perhaps under water, I would love to see stealth. If someone is able to use real mechanics to conceal themselves and then waylay me and kill me, great. What I hate is being in a spot where it would make no sense to be ambushed and then get ganked. Or to know some rogue is around me, wait to launch an alpha strike, but being unable to see him because he is not stealthed, but rather invisible.

    It goes without saying that the worst type of stealth is the kind that can be popped while the enemy can see you, or, even a bit worse, while in combat with you. These "vanish in a puff of smoke" type of stealths are complete junk.

    image

  • MortifyMortify None of your BusinessPosts: 95Member

    I want stealth like it was in DAoC. I had fun as an infiltrator, had fun as a caster, had fun as a tank, and had fun as a cleric.

     

    Methos, Armsman, EU Excalibur
    Jager, Infiltrator, EU Excalibur
    Phos, Cleric, EU Excalibur
    Mortify, Sorcerer, EU Excalibur

  • Daimonion69Daimonion69 RegensburgPosts: 29Member

    I just have to throw in an idea, not considering balance etc.

     

    There could be a "invisibility" wizard spell. Either for self use, or to cast it on others.

    Of course such stuff needs heavy drawbacks... like caster can not move, limited range, invisible char can not attack...

     

     

    It just came to my mind. Maybe the idea is total crap, but it it might be worth to spend some thoughts on it.

  • TaldierTaldier Camp Hill, PAPosts: 235Member

    Perhaps something like an ability to become invisible or mostly so while standing still, but increasingly more visible the faster you move.  Perhaps breaking entirely if you move too quickly while someone is looking in your direction within a certain range.

     

    That would force stealthers to act stealthy if they dont want to be seen while still giving them the ability to be invisible.  Would also create a high skill cap for the best stealthers to stay hidden while sneaking into a besieged keep or the like.

  • Niix_OzekNiix_Ozek Calgary, ABPosts: 397Member

    There was never anything like the fear / anticipation of a stealther lurking around waiting for their prime opportunity to strike you at the Mile gates.

    NOTHING LIKE IT EVER. Removing stealthers like they were in daoc from this game will be a huge mistake, and i'm sad to see them do it. Minor balancing of openings is an easy fix to most whiners, removing them completely will be a mistake. We shall see what his "new uniqe COOL crazy new system" is, however i'm very concerned the way he's expressed his personal distaste for stealthers.

    More proof whiners driving the direction of games :'( <--- sad face and tears.

    ps. This coming from someone who played 99% of games with stealthers as a visible.

    Ozek - DAOC
    Niix - Other games that sucked

  • TaldierTaldier Camp Hill, PAPosts: 235Member
    Originally posted by Niix_Ozek

    There was never anything like the fear / anticipation of a stealther lurking around waiting for their prime opportunity to strike you at the Mile gates.

    NOTHING LIKE IT EVER. Removing stealthers like they were in daoc from this game will be a huge mistake, and i'm sad to see them do it. Minor balancing of openings is an easy fix to most whiners, removing them completely will be a mistake. We shall see what his "new uniqe COOL crazy new system" is, however i'm very concerned the way he's expressed his personal distaste for stealthers.

    More proof whiners driving the direction of games :'( <--- sad face and tears.

    ps. This coming from someone who played 99% of games with stealthers as a visible.

    If you just use the instant magical invisbility that lets you run directly at a line of enemies across an open field at noon without being seen, then you have to seriously balance the combat abilities of that class.

     

    Do you really just want a weaker fighter with an invisibility spell?

     

    Wouldnt it be more interesting to have a very skill based system that allowed for stealthers to have dramatic assasin like moments when played by talented players with good situational awareness?

  • Niix_OzekNiix_Ozek Calgary, ABPosts: 397Member
    Originally posted by Taldier
    just use the instant magical invisbility that lets you run directly at a line of enemies across an open field at noon without being seen, then you have to seriously balance the combat abilities of that class.

     

    Do you really just want a weaker fighter with an invisibility spell?

     

    Wouldnt it be more interesting to have a very skill based system that allowed for stealthers to have dramatic assasin like moments when played by talented players with good situational awareness?

    I don't have much desire to play a stealther, but not recognizing the things they add to a players experience is foolish.... A lot of my solo memories involve walking around choke points and DF worrysome I will get jumped by a stealther at any time, made me focus more and get into the game more, felt more real. Btw they don't have to be "weaker" they can be balanced appropriately as long as they arn't stun locking from stealth or 1-2 shotting people. It's not hard to balance stealthers so they're still competitive and fun to play and not OP, but again apparently its easier to remove them then try, I lack understanding of this business case so their "creative" interpretation better not be flawed.

    A ton of people enjoy the nature of play perm-stealth allows, people who afk frequently with kids, can afk in stealth and not worry about running back etc. I just don't see how you can disclude it because people cry when they die to a stealther because it's so easy to blame "they popped out of no where" as to why they lost lol.

    As per your last comment, I don't understand how I don't desire that.

    Ozek - DAOC
    Niix - Other games that sucked

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