Originally posted by Heartspark I don't understand the whole "Against kickstarter" mentality. You truly don't know any game till its released. Even if you see videos/screenshots/etc of games online, many released are terrible and not represented by those. I really makes no sense to be against kickstarter. Even kickstarter games that have been funded to extreme turned out not to be that great once released. Its the same with any game. Everything is a investment, be it kickstarter or buying a game when it comes out.
I don't see how people can be anti-kickstarter and then complain about publishers screwing over developers and ruining game franchises in the next breath. Crowdfunding is an alternative to the publisher model, it's gaining momentum yet some gamers still deride the very notion of it.
I've pledged to a lot of games(including this one), but I didn't pledge to the Ouya console or a great many other projects because I wasn't sold on them for various reasons.
If dumb people throw their money away on something, then it has very little(if any) impact on me. Unless you are a shill for a major publisher or are just some social malcontent with too much time on their hands I see no reason to rail against KS like some do.
Originally posted by david06 I don't see how people can be anti-kickstarter and then complain about publishers screwing over developers and ruining game franchises in the next breath. Crowdfunding is an alternative to the publisher model, it's gaining momentum yet some gamers still deride the very notion of it.
Instinctive suspicion of marketing tactics. It is possible to dislike the extremes of both alternatives.
Crowdfunding has yet to produce any actual results.
The trend and projection on Kicktraq are now both below $2 million. This project is going to need a crazy big finish to fund at this point (like $600,000+ in the final days). I wonder if Mark has a certain number of backers he wants to see and if there are fewer than that number in the last few days, he will cancel the project even if the backers it does have might increase their donations enough to fund it?
I know this has been brought up before but other than the obvious lack of steady stream of cash per day, my bigger concern is such a low number of backers.
We are not even at 9000, that is deeply troubling to me.
Also no stretch goals, no excitement about going several 100k over the goal, that's what really pumps up the Dev team when they feel the support of the fans.
If I worked for CSE I'd sort of feel deflated at this point.
It's a niche game, remember? That's what all you CU fans wanted. A happy little community separate from us big old dumb casuals.
I guess you're about to find out how niche you really are.
According to all the oozing over the game and the insults waged at anyone who doesn't participate in the ooze-fest, apparently they are.
You are a corner case on the CU/NON-CU continuum.
EDIT: BTW, gamers are not multi-dimensional human beings. They are pretty one-sided and entirely predictable. It they weren't, the gaming industry would be much less successful than it is today.
Also no stretch goals, no excitement about going several 100k over the goal, that's what really pumps up the Dev team when they feel the support of the fans.
There are two stretch goals. The first goal (dollar value hasn't been announced) results in adding one new race and one new class (possibly archers) in each realm. The second (dollar value hasn't been announced) results in The Depths dungeon (Darkness Falls) being included in the game at release.
Also no stretch goals, no excitement about going several 100k over the goal, that's what really pumps up the Dev team when they feel the support of the fans.
There are two stretch goals. The first goal (dollar value hasn't been announced) results in adding one new race and one new class (possibly archers) in each realm. The second (dollar value hasn't been announced) results in The Depths dungeon (Darkness Falls) being included in the game at release.
"Dollar value hasn't been announced"
What? There are ten days left in the cycle, that information should have been released twenty days ago. The whole project just feels so unprepared. That's why I personally am not bothering with CU during the kickstarter phase. The whole project feels like MJ decided to make it up as he goes along. I'm certainly not throwing money at that and I suspect that is why many others are not also.
If it funds and I start to see traction in the way of actual code, then I'll look closer. I would love a good RvR game, but I really don't think CU will be it.
I know this has been brought up before but other than the obvious lack of steady stream of cash per day, my bigger concern is such a low number of backers.
We are not even at 9000, that is deeply troubling to me.
Also no stretch goals, no excitement about going several 100k over the goal, that's what really pumps up the Dev team when they feel the support of the fans.
If I worked for CSE I'd sort of feel deflated at this point.
It's a niche game, remember? That's what all you CU fans wanted. A happy little community separate from us big old dumb casuals.
I guess you're about to find out how niche you really are.
Oh I am a big dumb casual gamer myself, but I also enjoy RvR. The two are not mutually exclusive.
At times I am also hardcore PvP, see these labels are not set in stone, because every player can change as times, us humans are dynamic complex and ever changing animals that do not fit entirely into labled boxes.
That's a very good point. It's just too bad devs are starting to think mmorpgs cannot be. So essentially MJ is taking one part of a dynamic complex and ever changing player and trying to scratch 1 small itch. How long do you think that will last?
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Also no stretch goals, no excitement about going several 100k over the goal, that's what really pumps up the Dev team when they feel the support of the fans.
There are two stretch goals. The first goal (dollar value hasn't been announced) results in adding one new race and one new class (possibly archers) in each realm. The second (dollar value hasn't been announced) results in The Depths dungeon (Darkness Falls) being included in the game at release.
"Dollar value hasn't been announced"
What? There are ten days left in the cycle, that information should have been released twenty days ago. The whole project just feels so unprepared. That's why I personally am not bothering with CU during the kickstarter phase. The whole project feels like MJ decided to make it up as he goes along. I'm certainly not throwing money at that and I suspect that is why many others are not also.
Hard to argue with the appearance of this being made up on the fly. I love the basic concept of an RvR game with no PvE or loot drops, so I've donated anyway in spite of my large doubts. But I totally can see why other people would choose not to.
Will it fund? Won't it fund? Still too early to tell IMHO.
But a couple of things are starting to become clear at this stage:
It won't be massively overfunded. "Stretch Goals" probably wont be reached.
CSE / Mark Jacobs badly miss-timed their run on Kickstarter. Looks like the phenomenon may have run its course.
Looks like (if you want to "Kickstart" a computer game) people expect more than just a concept now. And I agree with some other posters on this that that sort of defeats the whole purpose of KickStarter. But computer games are risky at the best of times.
Either way, if the idea of this Kickstarter was to generate "hype" and advertise, it has failed badly and possibly even backfired.
Even assuming the project funds (unless it really takes off in the next few days?) it will always be the one that 'just got over the line'. Which is not a good reputation to have. That will really put the pressure on to make the game excellent... a tough ask for a tough crowd.
If it doesn't fund - CSE really have no option but to dump it. Continuing with a game 'no-one really wants' (particularly after saying it wouldn't get made) won't do much for their reputation.
It wont be good for the backers either - particularly as the project is starting to earn a reputation as the one where the fans had to beg for money.
And no matter what happens... the Mods on all forums are going to really need to be on their toes for the next few days - probably calling in reinforcements in about 10 days and 16 hours from this post... There will be 'winners' and 'losers' - and dealing with PvP centric people that means... er... Teabagging (probably).
For me whether it does fund or doesn't - it will be interesting to watch.
If it does fund it will be interesting to see if CSE can actually make the concept and all the promises work... and work together?
If not... what will the MMORPG genre learn (if anything).
EDIT: There is one last possibility I forgot to mention: CSE might still cancel the Kickstarter... possibly to try to save face if it looks certain to fail? The fallout would be... nuclear. I doubt even the fans would tolerate that?
EDITx2: If it comes in really close MJ would actually be better off to sneak in as a 'backer' and take up the remaining $10000 pledges himself... (assuming he wanted to proceed of course!)... and then hope no-one ever finds out... because that would really be bad press.
Originally posted by BaltoBro I think it's going into vaporware.
I dont think that word means what you think it means. Generally vaporware is software that never gets released but never has been officially cancelled either, so it is just in a sort of development limbo.
Unless you really do mean that it will get funded and then never fail to materialize nor get officially cancelled, then I apologise.
And no matter what happens... the Mods on all forums are going to really need to be on their toes for the next few days - probably calling in reinforcements in about 10 days and 16 hours from this post... There will be 'winners' and 'losers' - and dealing with PvP centric people that means... er... Teabagging (probably).
Of course people being people are going to declare "victory" based on which way it goes, but the whole thing will be ridiculous. No one on this forum, except for MJ/CSE, will have won or lost anything worth bragging about. Regardless of how it turns out I will probably just lurk here on May 2 because it is going to be ugly either way.
More on topic, I am quite concerned at this stage for two reasons. The first reason is obvious: The pledge total is still under $1.3M and has really slowed down. It reached $1M after about 8 days, if memory serves, and so in the last 12 days it has added less than $300K, and in the last week has only made $130K. Yes, the middle is always a bit slow, but this is really slow and it is not very close to the goal. If it was this slow and we were at $1.6M, I would not be concerned at all, but we are far short of that.
My second reason is that at this point CSE does not seem to be able to generate much publicity to actually get new backers, so all of the cool updates are not reaching the right people. Right now they are "preaching to the choir," meaning these updates are being seen by backers and not many more. We are already the converted, we do not need the sermons (though I love them). Without the ability to reach more people and get more backers, this project will have to fund mostly on the generosity of those already backing it. Sure, everyone could raise their pledge $100 and fund it, but most will not do that, and I of course do not blame them.
Anyway, 10 days is still a lot of time, but it needs to average over $70K each day to fund, and recently it has been doing more like $15K. There have not even been any $70K+ days outside of the first three or four, so relying on them now is tough to do. As I said before, I still have faith in the game and CSE, I just also see how difficult this is going to be to fund.
Will it fund? Won't it fund? Still too early to tell IMHO.
True its a bit early
But a couple of things are starting to become clear at this stage:
It won't be massively overfunded. "Stretch Goals" probably wont be reached.
I am suprised he was trying to get so much considering her knows its only going to be a niche game, still i think it will make it.
CSE / Mark Jacobs badly miss-timed their run on Kickstarter. Looks like the phenomenon may have run its course.
I dont believe this is the case, CU is a niche game and I was not expecting many people to back it. Other recent kickstarter games that are not niche have easily made the funding mark.
Looks like (if you want to "Kickstart" a computer game) people expect more than just a concept now. And I agree with some other posters on this that that sort of defeats the whole purpose of KickStarter. But computer games are risky at the best of times.
Again i think this is slow because
Either way, if the idea of this Kickstarter was to generate "hype" and advertise, it has failed badly and possibly even backfired.
Not realyl again this was a niche game and was never going to get millions of people backnig it, and sure people will hate it because of the type of game it is.. not many people like full on pvp mmos.
Even assuming the project funds (unless it really takes off in the next few days?) it will always be the one that 'just got over the line'. Which is not a good reputation to have. That will really put the pressure on to make the game excellent... a tough ask for a tough crowd.
People who like PVP focused games will play it again.. it will be a niche game he is not looknig for millions of subs. I dont think there will be any issues witht this game having a small and stable player base once it comes out.
If it doesn't fund - CSE really have no option but to dump it. Continuing with a game 'no-one really wants' (particularly after saying it wouldn't get made) won't do much for their reputation.
Well they said it would not get made and im pretty sure it wont.
It wont be good for the backers either - particularly as the project is starting to earn a reputation as the one where the fans had to beg for money.
Whos begging? The hole point of kickstarter is to spread the word around as much as possible its done will all kickstarterss.. The issue is with this some the trolls have been very very vocal whenever the game is mentioned and they all try their hardest to bash the game as much as possible.. they do this with most games these days.
And no matter what happens... the Mods on all forums are going to really need to be on their toes for the next few days - probably calling in reinforcements in about 10 days and 16 hours from this post... There will be 'winners' and 'losers' - and dealing with PvP centric people that means... er... Teabagging (probably).
I am sure the trolls will be out in force bashing the game as much as possible.
For me whether it does fund or doesn't - it will be interesting to watch.
If it does fund it will be interesting to see if CSE can actually make the concept and all the promises work... and work together?
If not... what will the MMORPG genre learn (if anything).
Pretty sure if it funds they wil make the game they want to make, they wont have no big publishers pushing them to release the game ASAP.
EDIT: There is one last possibility I forgot to mention: CSE might still cancel the Kickstarter... possibly to try to save face if it looks certain to fail? The fallout would be... nuclear. I doubt even the fans would tolerate that?
That wont happen lol
EDITx2: If it comes in really close MJ would actually be better off to sneak in as a 'backer' and take up the remaining $10000 pledges himself... (assuming he wanted to proceed of course!)... and then hope no-one ever finds out... because that would really be bad press.
I see no issues with him putting more cash towards the game.
First, let me preface by saying I am a huge DAoC fan, and would most definetely play CU if it were released....HOWEVER
I am happy to see it may not reach the kickstarter goal.
How many times is this community going to bend over and take it....is everyone playing now too young to remember AO, Shadowbane, Dark and Light, Vanguard, Darkfall (hilarious that people are STILL buying into this game's rerelease after it missed original beta date by what? 10 years), do i need to continue?
Let's not even mention the fact that MJ is the same guy who made ToA, New Frontiers, Warhammer Online........yet people are going to throw 250-up to TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS......at a promise. You act like you are investors, you are not an investor. Investor's speculate and get a ownership percentage, you get a fancy sword concept art in an undeveloped game and a chance to throw a pie at some guys face.
I am 32 now, have disposible income, and could easily fork over a couple hundred.....but why would I? Stop it people, the market speaks, if this community is willing to throw 2 million dollars at some pretty pictures and a bare bones engine video, do you not see it getting worse. We don't need to spoon feed them DLC, or Pay to Win, we can get these suckers to pay money on a promise..................
Enough is enough with the promises. Somebody actually release something that isn't a piece of shit, and use your own gdamn investment money to do it, not mine.
First, let me preface by saying I am a huge DAoC fan, and would most definetely play CU if it were released....HOWEVER
I am happy to see it may not reach the kickstarter goal.
How many times is this community going to bend over and take it....is everyone playing now too young to remember AO, Shadowbane, Dark and Light, Vanguard, Darkfall (hilarious that people are STILL buying into this game's rerelease after it missed original beta date by what? 10 years), do i need to continue?
Let's not even mention the fact that MJ is the same guy who made ToA, New Frontiers, Warhammer Online........yet people are going to throw 250-up to TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS......at a promise. You act like you are investors, you are not an investor. Investor's speculate and get a ownership percentage, you get a fancy sword concept art in an undeveloped game and a chance to throw a pie at some guys face.
I am 32 now, have disposible income, and could easily fork over a couple hundred.....but why would I? Stop it people, the market speaks, if this community is willing to throw 2 million dollars at some pretty pictures and a bare bones engine video, do you not see it getting worse. We don't need to spoon feed them DLC, or Pay to Win, we can get these suckers to pay money on a promise..................
Enough is enough with the promises. Somebody actually release something that isn't a piece of shit, and use your own gdamn investment money to do it, not mine.
The industry is not going to invest in a niche MMO unless we, the customers, prove that there is a large enough market for it to succeed. Its pretty much that simple.
You are basically pushing the "magically pull it out of your butt so I can buy it" argument. He's already going to put in 2 million dollars of his own money once the kickstarter funds and proves the demand exists. His other investors are contingent upon the same thing. They wont invest until they know people actually want what he is making.
First, let me preface by saying I am a huge DAoC fan, and would most definetely play CU if it were released....HOWEVER
I am happy to see it may not reach the kickstarter goal.
How many times is this community going to bend over and take it....is everyone playing now too young to remember AO, Shadowbane, Dark and Light, Vanguard, Darkfall (hilarious that people are STILL buying into this game's rerelease after it missed original beta date by what? 10 years), do i need to continue?
Let's not even mention the fact that MJ is the same guy who made ToA, New Frontiers, Warhammer Online........yet people are going to throw 250-up to TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS......at a promise. You act like you are investors, you are not an investor. Investor's speculate and get a ownership percentage, you get a fancy sword concept art in an undeveloped game and a chance to throw a pie at some guys face.
I am 32 now, have disposible income, and could easily fork over a couple hundred.....but why would I? Stop it people, the market speaks, if this community is willing to throw 2 million dollars at some pretty pictures and a bare bones engine video, do you not see it getting worse. We don't need to spoon feed them DLC, or Pay to Win, we can get these suckers to pay money on a promise..................
Enough is enough with the promises. Somebody actually release something that isn't a piece of shit, and use your own gdamn investment money to do it, not mine.
The industry is not going to invest in a niche MMO unless we, the customers, prove that there is a large enough market for it to succeed. Its pretty much that simple.
You are basically pushing the "magically pull it out of your butt so I can buy it" argument. He's already going to put in 2 million dollars of his own money once the kickstarter funds and proves the demand exists. His other investors are contingent upon the same thing. They wont invest until they know people actually want what he is making.
The industry does not need to invest when the consumers are dumb enough to fork over the investment money based on a promise or idea..........that's the point. You think pre-paid beta access and DLC are bad, this is heading in a terrible direction.
Innovation is based on risk, you have to take risk to gain reward, it's basic consumerism......this process removes all the risk, ask for payment up front, and relies on companies to actually deliver on their promises. Name me ONE single MMO that has delivered on all of it's promises.
The industry does not need to invest when the consumers are dumb enough to fork over the investment money based on a promise or idea..........that's the point. You think pre-paid beta access and DLC are bad, this is heading in a terrible direction.
Innovation is based on risk, you have to take risk to gain reward, it's basic consumerism......this process removes all the risk, ask for payment up front, and relies on companies to actually deliver on their promises. Name me ONE single MMO that has delivered on all of it's promises.
Your point is valid and there were enough examples in the past which teach exactly this. Games where hyped by the marketing so that the masses buy them, only to see after a few hours that the game didn't met their expectations. Other games were not polished enough, since the publisher urged the release date, and the product was not finished yet.
But I expect different stories out of the kickstarter projects. Sure, black sheeps are everywhere. Some people will try to get the most money out of KS without delivering properly. But those developer better look for another branche afterwards, since they will be burned forever.
I expect that the big kickstarter projects, which are very well known in the media, will perform extraordinary good. They know the risk. They know that the louder they shout before funding, the closer the backers will look on the outcome.
And especially here, where Mark has not the best reputations for many people, the way the game is produces has to be as transparent as possible, the finished game has to pass the comparsion with the foundation principles.
But I am sure Mark and CSE knows this. And no matter how good or bad the game will perform when it is finished, I am sure we will see a very honest and communicative development process with much influence by the backers. However, the last word will have Mark, since he will be blamed if CU doesn't meet the expectation. I am looking forward to be part of this process as a backer and I am excited to play the finish game afterwards.
MMO's played so far: UO,EQ,DAOC,EQ2,GW,ROM,WOW,WAR,AOC,LOTRO,RIFT,TSW,GW2,POE Looking forward to: Camelot Unchained, Star Citizen
First, let me preface by saying I am a huge DAoC fan, and would most definetely play CU if it were released....HOWEVER
I am happy to see it may not reach the kickstarter goal.
How many times is this community going to bend over and take it....is everyone playing now too young to remember AO, Shadowbane, Dark and Light, Vanguard, Darkfall (hilarious that people are STILL buying into this game's rerelease after it missed original beta date by what? 10 years), do i need to continue?
Let's not even mention the fact that MJ is the same guy who made ToA, New Frontiers, Warhammer Online........yet people are going to throw 250-up to TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS......at a promise. You act like you are investors, you are not an investor. Investor's speculate and get a ownership percentage, you get a fancy sword concept art in an undeveloped game and a chance to throw a pie at some guys face.
I am 32 now, have disposible income, and could easily fork over a couple hundred.....but why would I? Stop it people, the market speaks, if this community is willing to throw 2 million dollars at some pretty pictures and a bare bones engine video, do you not see it getting worse. We don't need to spoon feed them DLC, or Pay to Win, we can get these suckers to pay money on a promise..................
Enough is enough with the promises. Somebody actually release something that isn't a piece of shit, and use your own gdamn investment money to do it, not mine.
I am perplexed with the MMOs that you use as example. While D&L did turn out to be a fiasco (it could barely be called a working game), the others were at least functional. In fact, some of the titles you listed have a loyal fan base that enjoys playing them, Heck, I consider Shadowbane one of the most fun MMO I had the pleasure to play. To each his own and I think that is the point of a KS campaign. No one forces anyone to contribute and allows customers to fund projects that cater to their likes and that would otherwise never see the light of day.
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
Maybe years after release they could be considered OK, however each example was broken at release and contained nowhere near the content promised. Shadowbane was one of the worst releases ever considering the plague of SB.exe errors, the duping, R30's hacking entire cities to the ground, the only time they finally got their shit together and in a playable state was by the time it went free to play. However, it seems like everyone has severe short term memory and rose tinted glasses when it comes to mmos.
They have 9 days left and they need to average 77k a day. Pretty safe to say this game will not be funded. It really was a nice idea they had but I guess it just wasn't meant to be. It also proves that RvR is pretty much dead. Only the very small crowd wants it back.
Originally posted by Normandy7 They have 9 days left and they need to average 77k a day. Pretty safe to say this game will not be funded. It really was a nice idea they had but I guess it just wasn't meant to be. It also proves that RvR is pretty much dead. Only the very small crowd wants it back.
If you look at the linear curve, based on % vs. time we are about even with it. There will be at least 300k the final few days to help bump this thing over the edge.
We're far from over and it's gonna be a fun ride!
I healed Mistwraith and all I got was this stupid tee-shirt!
Comments
Eh?!
Did I completly space out because last time I tried I wasnt able to.
Though it would be something I'd expect from myself.
Either way thank you very much.
I've pledged to a lot of games(including this one), but I didn't pledge to the Ouya console or a great many other projects because I wasn't sold on them for various reasons.
If dumb people throw their money away on something, then it has very little(if any) impact on me. Unless you are a shill for a major publisher or are just some social malcontent with too much time on their hands I see no reason to rail against KS like some do.
Instinctive suspicion of marketing tactics. It is possible to dislike the extremes of both alternatives.
Crowdfunding has yet to produce any actual results.
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
It's a niche game, remember? That's what all you CU fans wanted. A happy little community separate from us big old dumb casuals.
I guess you're about to find out how niche you really are.
According to all the oozing over the game and the insults waged at anyone who doesn't participate in the ooze-fest, apparently they are.
You are a corner case on the CU/NON-CU continuum.
EDIT: BTW, gamers are not multi-dimensional human beings. They are pretty one-sided and entirely predictable. It they weren't, the gaming industry would be much less successful than it is today.
There are two stretch goals. The first goal (dollar value hasn't been announced) results in adding one new race and one new class (possibly archers) in each realm. The second (dollar value hasn't been announced) results in The Depths dungeon (Darkness Falls) being included in the game at release.
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
"Dollar value hasn't been announced"
What? There are ten days left in the cycle, that information should have been released twenty days ago. The whole project just feels so unprepared. That's why I personally am not bothering with CU during the kickstarter phase. The whole project feels like MJ decided to make it up as he goes along. I'm certainly not throwing money at that and I suspect that is why many others are not also.
If it funds and I start to see traction in the way of actual code, then I'll look closer. I would love a good RvR game, but I really don't think CU will be it.
That's a very good point. It's just too bad devs are starting to think mmorpgs cannot be. So essentially MJ is taking one part of a dynamic complex and ever changing player and trying to scratch 1 small itch. How long do you think that will last?
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Hard to argue with the appearance of this being made up on the fly. I love the basic concept of an RvR game with no PvE or loot drops, so I've donated anyway in spite of my large doubts. But I totally can see why other people would choose not to.
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
I think a few people need to calm down a little?
Will it fund? Won't it fund? Still too early to tell IMHO.
But a couple of things are starting to become clear at this stage:
It won't be massively overfunded. "Stretch Goals" probably wont be reached.
CSE / Mark Jacobs badly miss-timed their run on Kickstarter. Looks like the phenomenon may have run its course.
Looks like (if you want to "Kickstart" a computer game) people expect more than just a concept now. And I agree with some other posters on this that that sort of defeats the whole purpose of KickStarter. But computer games are risky at the best of times.
Either way, if the idea of this Kickstarter was to generate "hype" and advertise, it has failed badly and possibly even backfired.
Even assuming the project funds (unless it really takes off in the next few days?) it will always be the one that 'just got over the line'. Which is not a good reputation to have. That will really put the pressure on to make the game excellent... a tough ask for a tough crowd.
If it doesn't fund - CSE really have no option but to dump it. Continuing with a game 'no-one really wants' (particularly after saying it wouldn't get made) won't do much for their reputation.
It wont be good for the backers either - particularly as the project is starting to earn a reputation as the one where the fans had to beg for money.
And no matter what happens... the Mods on all forums are going to really need to be on their toes for the next few days - probably calling in reinforcements in about 10 days and 16 hours from this post... There will be 'winners' and 'losers' - and dealing with PvP centric people that means... er... Teabagging (probably).
For me whether it does fund or doesn't - it will be interesting to watch.
If it does fund it will be interesting to see if CSE can actually make the concept and all the promises work... and work together?
If not... what will the MMORPG genre learn (if anything).
EDIT: There is one last possibility I forgot to mention: CSE might still cancel the Kickstarter... possibly to try to save face if it looks certain to fail? The fallout would be... nuclear. I doubt even the fans would tolerate that?
EDITx2: If it comes in really close MJ would actually be better off to sneak in as a 'backer' and take up the remaining $10000 pledges himself... (assuming he wanted to proceed of course!)... and then hope no-one ever finds out... because that would really be bad press.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
I dont think that word means what you think it means. Generally vaporware is software that never gets released but never has been officially cancelled either, so it is just in a sort of development limbo.
Unless you really do mean that it will get funded and then never fail to materialize nor get officially cancelled, then I apologise.
Of course people being people are going to declare "victory" based on which way it goes, but the whole thing will be ridiculous. No one on this forum, except for MJ/CSE, will have won or lost anything worth bragging about. Regardless of how it turns out I will probably just lurk here on May 2 because it is going to be ugly either way.
More on topic, I am quite concerned at this stage for two reasons. The first reason is obvious: The pledge total is still under $1.3M and has really slowed down. It reached $1M after about 8 days, if memory serves, and so in the last 12 days it has added less than $300K, and in the last week has only made $130K. Yes, the middle is always a bit slow, but this is really slow and it is not very close to the goal. If it was this slow and we were at $1.6M, I would not be concerned at all, but we are far short of that.
My second reason is that at this point CSE does not seem to be able to generate much publicity to actually get new backers, so all of the cool updates are not reaching the right people. Right now they are "preaching to the choir," meaning these updates are being seen by backers and not many more. We are already the converted, we do not need the sermons (though I love them). Without the ability to reach more people and get more backers, this project will have to fund mostly on the generosity of those already backing it. Sure, everyone could raise their pledge $100 and fund it, but most will not do that, and I of course do not blame them.
Anyway, 10 days is still a lot of time, but it needs to average over $70K each day to fund, and recently it has been doing more like $15K. There have not even been any $70K+ days outside of the first three or four, so relying on them now is tough to do. As I said before, I still have faith in the game and CSE, I just also see how difficult this is going to be to fund.
First, let me preface by saying I am a huge DAoC fan, and would most definetely play CU if it were released....HOWEVER
I am happy to see it may not reach the kickstarter goal.
How many times is this community going to bend over and take it....is everyone playing now too young to remember AO, Shadowbane, Dark and Light, Vanguard, Darkfall (hilarious that people are STILL buying into this game's rerelease after it missed original beta date by what? 10 years), do i need to continue?
Let's not even mention the fact that MJ is the same guy who made ToA, New Frontiers, Warhammer Online........yet people are going to throw 250-up to TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS......at a promise. You act like you are investors, you are not an investor. Investor's speculate and get a ownership percentage, you get a fancy sword concept art in an undeveloped game and a chance to throw a pie at some guys face.
I am 32 now, have disposible income, and could easily fork over a couple hundred.....but why would I? Stop it people, the market speaks, if this community is willing to throw 2 million dollars at some pretty pictures and a bare bones engine video, do you not see it getting worse. We don't need to spoon feed them DLC, or Pay to Win, we can get these suckers to pay money on a promise..................
Enough is enough with the promises. Somebody actually release something that isn't a piece of shit, and use your own gdamn investment money to do it, not mine.
The industry is not going to invest in a niche MMO unless we, the customers, prove that there is a large enough market for it to succeed. Its pretty much that simple.
You are basically pushing the "magically pull it out of your butt so I can buy it" argument. He's already going to put in 2 million dollars of his own money once the kickstarter funds and proves the demand exists. His other investors are contingent upon the same thing. They wont invest until they know people actually want what he is making.
The industry does not need to invest when the consumers are dumb enough to fork over the investment money based on a promise or idea..........that's the point. You think pre-paid beta access and DLC are bad, this is heading in a terrible direction.
Innovation is based on risk, you have to take risk to gain reward, it's basic consumerism......this process removes all the risk, ask for payment up front, and relies on companies to actually deliver on their promises. Name me ONE single MMO that has delivered on all of it's promises.
Your point is valid and there were enough examples in the past which teach exactly this. Games where hyped by the marketing so that the masses buy them, only to see after a few hours that the game didn't met their expectations. Other games were not polished enough, since the publisher urged the release date, and the product was not finished yet.
But I expect different stories out of the kickstarter projects. Sure, black sheeps are everywhere. Some people will try to get the most money out of KS without delivering properly. But those developer better look for another branche afterwards, since they will be burned forever.
I expect that the big kickstarter projects, which are very well known in the media, will perform extraordinary good. They know the risk. They know that the louder they shout before funding, the closer the backers will look on the outcome.
And especially here, where Mark has not the best reputations for many people, the way the game is produces has to be as transparent as possible, the finished game has to pass the comparsion with the foundation principles.
But I am sure Mark and CSE knows this. And no matter how good or bad the game will perform when it is finished, I am sure we will see a very honest and communicative development process with much influence by the backers. However, the last word will have Mark, since he will be blamed if CU doesn't meet the expectation. I am looking forward to be part of this process as a backer and I am excited to play the finish game afterwards.
MMO's played so far:
UO,EQ,DAOC,EQ2,GW,ROM,WOW,WAR,AOC,LOTRO,RIFT,TSW,GW2,POE
Looking forward to: Camelot Unchained, Star Citizen
I am perplexed with the MMOs that you use as example. While D&L did turn out to be a fiasco (it could barely be called a working game), the others were at least functional. In fact, some of the titles you listed have a loyal fan base that enjoys playing them, Heck, I consider Shadowbane one of the most fun MMO I had the pleasure to play. To each his own and I think that is the point of a KS campaign. No one forces anyone to contribute and allows customers to fund projects that cater to their likes and that would otherwise never see the light of day.
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
If you look at the linear curve, based on % vs. time we are about even with it. There will be at least 300k the final few days to help bump this thing over the edge.
We're far from over and it's gonna be a fun ride!
I healed Mistwraith and all I got was this stupid tee-shirt!