I guess that for those who lack the imagination to make up their own role with the tools given to them, the "on the rails" version of roles coming from WoW clones roles is a boon, and they feel lost when they don't have those rails.
And the "help each class feel unique and less homogenized" part is quite hillarious. Yeah, being exactly like every single other tank warrior, or holy priest, or whatever else out there because it's the only optimal way definitely makes on feel less homogenized... not being able to do any group content without the "tank/healer/dps" trinity makes everyone feel more unique and less homogenized... err wait... /facepalm.
Its mostly that these people want everything on rails and forced on them, from role, to grouping to quests to raiding to dailies....to enconter design. OTOH i find that approach as ultimate boredom after playing exact same games like that for years now.
I mean i understand those people to a degree, they want same ol same ol they feel comfortable with, but really do we need more EQ/WoW clones, as all of those people get bored of it as fast as anyone else.
Genre needs to evolve, it has stagnated for years now, no, more EQ/WoW clones arent doing that and GW2 is nice refreshment with some great ideas. Is it perfect? No. But it damn works, it brought lot of innovation to the table, i only wish that most new MMOs are so innovative.
I'm sorry, how does wanting a more defined class role equate to wanting things on rails? No one is asking them to change GW2 to be more like the "other" games, they are merely pointing out their reasons for not liking GW2. I define evolution as something that is inevitable and beyond our control. Changing games to be more like GW2 is not evolution, it is a concious choice to do things differently, even if many don't agree with it. That does not make GW2 the future of gaming for everyone. What is stagnate to you isn't for others. What is innovative to you is a movement in the wrong direction for others. Stop acting as if you are the authority on what is and is not the correct direction to go for MMOs.
I'm going to keep this short in sweet but this was the biggest reason why I never played GW2.
The lack of the "Holy trinity" in a MMO is just not the type of MMO I want to play.
So while I would find it a little wierd that it took you this long for it to hit you, I can complelety understand why you left.
Completely agree. It took playing a game like GW2 to make me realize I like being important to a party for a specific role. It also helps each class feel unique and less homogenized.
I guess that for those who lack the imagination to make up their own role with the tools given to them, the "on the rails" version of roles coming from WoW clones roles is a boon, and they feel lost when they don't have those rails.
And the "help each class feel unique and less homogenized" part is quite hillarious. Yeah, being exactly like every single other tank warrior, or holy priest, or whatever else out there because it's the only optimal way definitely makes on feel less homogenized... not being able to do any group content without the "tank/healer/dps" trinity makes everyone feel more unique and less homogenized... err wait... /facepalm.
Nice way to ignore his context of being a class that is unique within the group, not the overall game. Different strokes for different folks, learn it, love it, get over it. If anyone is showing a lack of imagination, it's you and your cronies.
Was that a veiled attempt to say I have no imagination? Anyway, insult aside, I disagree that I "need" the role defining to "not feel lost". I want the role defining so that my place in the party makes sense unlike in GW2 where it's just constant chaos in dungeon runs. I like to know as a tank who I need to pull threat from and the priority of each. I also as a healer need to know who's going to being taking the brunt of the damage and as dps and CC I like to know when I need to slow down or speed up or control adds and such. GW2 doesn't ever do that as I'm supposed to do all of that at once. It's annoying, tedious and frankly bores me to tears.
I end up never feeling like part of a party or a team but more like someone who rolled up next to a bunch of other players doing the same thing I'm doing trying to get through the dungeon. Like being pulled into a pack of running lemmings.
You are just having problems playing a NEW game with different dynamics. It's not that roles don't exist, you just don't understand them. I guess it stands to reason that when something is beyond a person ability to understand, that they find it boring.
No, we understand them, we just don't like them. We prefer a more defined and group traditional role. It doesn't make us too stupid to understand the resulting gameplay. Knock it off with the insults, dude.
Honestly, all insults & epeens aside, much of what you guys are complaining about is doable in GW2, you just can't think about it using the same ruleset as the traditional MMOs (EQs / WoW / Vanguard / etc.). For example, group comp in GW2 makes a huge difference. This isn't to say that they aren't all viable, but that how you structure you're group dictates how the fights will be. If you have a group that's mostly damage, heals, or straight up tanky (invulns, blocks, high toughness), you're fights are going to be super chaotic.
If you want more simplistic / organized fights, then you need to approach them as such. For example, If you wanted to go for a more trinity-minded group comp, bring a guardian or 2. If you're doing a dungeon that has a lot of ranged enemies (i.e. Caudicus' Manor) bring anti-range skills (wall of reflection, feedback, smokescreen, shield bubbles, whirlding defense, etc. etc. etc.). Bring some damage (warriors, necros, thieves), and bring some support / utility classes (elementalist, engineer, mesmer). Probably the most faceroll easy way to do most dungeons atm is guardian stacking. Put 2 guardians at the front with altruistic healing / symbols and area control abilities. Have your damage stack on the guardians for AoE heals / buffs / protection, and your backliners supporting from a safe distance. That strat works for most of the fights in this game atm.
- Also, the chaotic nature of the game's combat comes largely from the AI. However, the AI has fairly straighforward guidelines it follows. Unlike a standard, linear threat system; it's more like a pie chart. Understanding how this works allows you to manipulate fights into simpler encounters. For example, if you have anyone in your party with low HP, but super high damage, they WILL be getting hit often. Either have them prepare for that, or respec for more HP and less damage.
**I'm also not saying you guys are somehow wrong for not liking GW2's combat system. It is a matter of personal preference, and it's not for everyone. However, I am saying that a lot of people don't take the time to understand it fully before writing it off as a 'broken chaotic mess'.
Was that a veiled attempt to say I have no imagination?
I wouldn't even call it "veiled" lol. They were quite openly insulting you (and anyone who thinks like you, apparently).
Anyway, insult aside, I disagree that I "need" the role defining to "not feel lost". I want the role defining so that my place in the party makes sense unlike in GW2 where it's just constant chaos in dungeon runs. I like to know as a tank who I need to pull threat from and the priority of each. I also as a healer need to know who's going to being taking the brunt of the damage and as dps and CC I like to know when I need to slow down or speed up or control adds and such. GW2 doesn't ever do that as I'm supposed to do all of that at once. It's annoying, tedious and frankly bores me to tears.
I end up never feeling like part of a party or a team but more like someone who rolled up next to a bunch of other players doing the same thing I'm doing trying to get through the dungeon. Like being pulled into a pack of running lemmings.
People, like the person you responded to, seem to confuse "liking to perform a certain role in a group" with "needing to be given rails to play on". The two, of course, are not the same.
Of course, it requires one to think critically about things, and not just jump to poorly constructed conclusions.
I guess that for those who lack the imagination to make up their own role with the tools given to them, the "on the rails" version of roles coming from WoW clones roles is a boon, and they feel lost when they don't have those rails.
And the "help each class feel unique and less homogenized" part is quite hillarious. Yeah, being exactly like every single other tank warrior, or holy priest, or whatever else out there because it's the only optimal way definitely makes on feel less homogenized... not being able to do any group content without the "tank/healer/dps" trinity makes everyone feel more unique and less homogenized... err wait... /facepalm.
Its mostly that these people want everything on rails and forced on them, from role, to grouping to quests to raiding to dailies....to enconter design. OTOH i find that approach as ultimate boredom after playing exact same games like that for years now.
I mean i understand those people to a degree, they want same ol same ol they feel comfortable with, but really do we need more EQ/WoW clones, as all of those people get bored of it as fast as anyone else.
Genre needs to evolve, it has stagnated for years now, no, more EQ/WoW clones arent doing that and GW2 is nice refreshment with some great ideas. Is it perfect? No. But it damn works, it brought lot of innovation to the table, i only wish that most new MMOs are so innovative.
I'm sorry, how does wanting a more defined class role equate to wanting things on rails? No one is asking them to change GW2 to be more like the "other" games, they are merely pointing out their reasons for not liking GW2. I define evolution as something that is inevitable and beyond our control. Changing games to be more like GW2 is not evolution, it is a concious choice to do things differently, even if many don't agree with it. That does not make GW2 the future of gaming for everyone. What is stagnate to you isn't for others. What is innovative to you is a movement in the wrong direction for others. Stop acting as if you are the authority on what is and is not the correct direction to go for MMOs.
Im just sad that gamers have turned into old timers that rock in their chairs and repeat "all this new mumbos jumbos make no sense to me, in good ol' days...."
This really has become site for disgrunteled old timers that cannot make peace that things move on. Want to be old timer? Fine by me. But you sure dont get to redefine established terms like "evolution" and "stagnation".
**I'm also not saying you guys are somehow wrong for not liking GW2's combat system. It is a matter of personal preference, and it's not for everyone. However, I am saying that a lot of people don't take the time to understand it fully before writing it off as a 'broken chaotic mess'.
Which ANet has accepted as their fault due to their tutorial (Or lack there of) system.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
People have proven that roles exist in GW2, yet other people say they don't exist. It's natural for a person to say that something doesn't exist when they don't understand it. It's not being rude, it's just being honest and fair. Just because a person can't see outside the box that they found themselves in, doesn't mean that what is beyond the limitations of their view is nonexistant. Do you feel it's cruel to mention it to them?
To be fair though.. Roles don't matter in WvW zergs, dragon fights, or when DEs are zerged. I haven't even finished all the dungeons yet, so i can't really comment how roles work in them.
In contrast to WoW, you need a healer and a tank for open-world dragons and bosses.
I guess that for those who lack the imagination to make up their own role with the tools given to them, the "on the rails" version of roles coming from WoW clones roles is a boon, and they feel lost when they don't have those rails.
And the "help each class feel unique and less homogenized" part is quite hillarious. Yeah, being exactly like every single other tank warrior, or holy priest, or whatever else out there because it's the only optimal way definitely makes on feel less homogenized... not being able to do any group content without the "tank/healer/dps" trinity makes everyone feel more unique and less homogenized... err wait... /facepalm.
Its mostly that these people want everything on rails and forced on them, from role, to grouping to quests to raiding to dailies....to enconter design. OTOH i find that approach as ultimate boredom after playing exact same games like that for years now.
I mean i understand those people to a degree, they want same ol same ol they feel comfortable with, but really do we need more EQ/WoW clones, as all of those people get bored of it as fast as anyone else.
Genre needs to evolve, it has stagnated for years now, no, more EQ/WoW clones arent doing that and GW2 is nice refreshment with some great ideas. Is it perfect? No. But it damn works, it brought lot of innovation to the table, i only wish that most new MMOs are so innovative.
I'm sorry, how does wanting a more defined class role equate to wanting things on rails? No one is asking them to change GW2 to be more like the "other" games, they are merely pointing out their reasons for not liking GW2. I define evolution as something that is inevitable and beyond our control. Changing games to be more like GW2 is not evolution, it is a concious choice to do things differently, even if many don't agree with it. That does not make GW2 the future of gaming for everyone. What is stagnate to you isn't for others. What is innovative to you is a movement in the wrong direction for others. Stop acting as if you are the authority on what is and is not the correct direction to go for MMOs.
Im just sad that gamers have turned into old timers that rock in their chairs and repeat "all this new mumbos jumbos make no sense to me, in good ol' days...."
This really has become site for disgrunteled old timers that cannot make peace that things move on. Want to be old timer? Fine by me. But you sure dont get to redefine established terms like "evolution" and "stagnation".
It's sad how this site has become infested with young and narrow minded gamers who break dance to hip hop and repeat "all this old mumbos jumbos makes no sense to me, in the future days....."
This really has become a site for disgruntled young and inexperienced gamers that cannot make peace with the past or make room for other play styles. Want to be young and inexperienced? Fine by me, but be sure to learn the definitions of evolution and stagnation before you insert foot in mouth.
I guess that for those who lack the imagination to make up their own role with the tools given to them, the "on the rails" version of roles coming from WoW clones roles is a boon, and they feel lost when they don't have those rails.
And the "help each class feel unique and less homogenized" part is quite hillarious. Yeah, being exactly like every single other tank warrior, or holy priest, or whatever else out there because it's the only optimal way definitely makes on feel less homogenized... not being able to do any group content without the "tank/healer/dps" trinity makes everyone feel more unique and less homogenized... err wait... /facepalm.
Its mostly that these people want everything on rails and forced on them, from role, to grouping to quests to raiding to dailies....to enconter design. OTOH i find that approach as ultimate boredom after playing exact same games like that for years now.
I mean i understand those people to a degree, they want same ol same ol they feel comfortable with, but really do we need more EQ/WoW clones, as all of those people get bored of it as fast as anyone else.
Genre needs to evolve, it has stagnated for years now, no, more EQ/WoW clones arent doing that and GW2 is nice refreshment with some great ideas. Is it perfect? No. But it damn works, it brought lot of innovation to the table, i only wish that most new MMOs are so innovative.
I'm sorry, how does wanting a more defined class role equate to wanting things on rails? No one is asking them to change GW2 to be more like the "other" games, they are merely pointing out their reasons for not liking GW2. I define evolution as something that is inevitable and beyond our control. Changing games to be more like GW2 is not evolution, it is a concious choice to do things differently, even if many don't agree with it. That does not make GW2 the future of gaming for everyone. What is stagnate to you isn't for others. What is innovative to you is a movement in the wrong direction for others. Stop acting as if you are the authority on what is and is not the correct direction to go for MMOs.
Im just sad that gamers have turned into old timers that rock in their chairs and repeat "all this new mumbos jumbos make no sense to me, in good ol' days...."
This really has become site for disgrunteled old timers that cannot make peace that things move on. Want to be old timer? Fine by me. But you sure dont get to redefine established terms like "evolution" and "stagnation".
It's sad how this site has become infested with young and narrow minded gamers who break dance to hip hop and repeat "all this old mumbos jumbos makes no sense to me, in the future days....."
This really has become a site for disgruntled young and inexperienced gamers that cannot make peace with the past or make room for other play styles. Want to be young and inexperienced? Fine by me, but be sure to learn the definitions of evolution and stagnation before you insert foot in mouth.
Said like true old timer. /bow for making my point
I would make a longer post, but i learned in my quite expnasive life experience that presenting any facts to old timers is futile. They just wave they hand and mumble something in their chin 'bout "good ol' times".
People have proven that roles exist in GW2, yet other people say they don't exist. It's natural for a person to say that something doesn't exist when they don't understand it. It's not being rude, it's just being honest and fair. Just because a person can't see outside the box that they found themselves in, doesn't mean that what is beyond the limitations of their view is nonexistant. Do you feel it's cruel to mention it to them?
To be fair though.. Roles don't matter in WvW zergs, dragon fights, or when DEs are zerged. I haven't even finished all the dungeons yet, so i can't really comment how roles work in them.
In contrast to WoW, you need a healer and a tank for open-world dragons and bosses.
Thing is. That this game does have roles.
As Guardian I can slot weapon + skills to either become a tank or switch to two-handed DPS or even slot a healer build.
I think that is the kind of freedom (a la TSW) people are uncustomed to after being so heavily conditioned by fixed class/role systems like in WoW, LOTRO, EQ2, etc these past years.
Both Guild Wars 2 and The Secret World tried to get away from fixed class/role systems, but in the end received a lot of flak for it.
Boggles my mind really. People keep complaining how many new MMO's are nothing but so called WoW clones.
Then both ArenaNet and Funcom try to break that mold..... and people are still not happy.
I myself love both GW2 and TSW and play both games currently. For me it's a breath of fresh air. Finally something a tad different.
Defiance could have been too, just that the game is currently just unfinished with too many issues. So I quit it for now and check back later.
But now I am enjoying my time in GW2 again (started over and was suprised how many low lvl players are still leveling up today ).
Boggles my mind really. People keep complaining how many new MMO's are nothing but so called WoW clones.
Then both ArenaNet and Funcom try to break that mold..... and people are still not happy.
I think that is half the problem with it, it "broke" the mold (or tried to). What was wrong with bending the mold? ie. have 1 class that could tank or take hits, then have 1 that could heal, (the fun part...) the rest, lets call them DPSers, had the ballerina rolling about thingy. Now before the screams start... the players wanting old school could run with a tank & healer, BUT 5 DPSers could run the same dungeon and roll about like eejits if they wished, thus killing 2 birdies with 1 stone and all would be happy, though they probably woundn't, be happy I mean!
PS. That was a rough idea off the top of my head, there is probably 1,000 flaws in it. It was an example only.
No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!
Was that a veiled attempt to say I have no imagination?
I wouldn't even call it "veiled" lol. They were quite openly insulting you (and anyone who thinks like you, apparently).
Anyway, insult aside, I disagree that I "need" the role defining to "not feel lost". I want the role defining so that my place in the party makes sense unlike in GW2 where it's just constant chaos in dungeon runs. I like to know as a tank who I need to pull threat from and the priority of each. I also as a healer need to know who's going to being taking the brunt of the damage and as dps and CC I like to know when I need to slow down or speed up or control adds and such. GW2 doesn't ever do that as I'm supposed to do all of that at once. It's annoying, tedious and frankly bores me to tears.
I end up never feeling like part of a party or a team but more like someone who rolled up next to a bunch of other players doing the same thing I'm doing trying to get through the dungeon. Like being pulled into a pack of running lemmings.
People, like the person you responded to, seem to confuse "liking to perform a certain role in a group" with "needing to be given rails to play on". The two, of course, are not the same.
Of course, it requires one to think critically about things, and not just jump to poorly constructed conclusions.
Exactly. I said "veiled" in an attempt to defuse the situation, but it didn't seem to work, lol. Anyway, about GW2. I have a Mesmer at 80, 100% exploration and all that jazz and I love the class. Especially in PVP. But in a group in PVE content, after playing a handful of other classes, I don't feel any different then the guy next to me. I guess that's my point. I like having a rhythm in the battle to follow and GW2 completely throws that out the window.
Was that a veiled attempt to say I have no imagination?
I wouldn't even call it "veiled" lol. They were quite openly insulting you (and anyone who thinks like you, apparently).
Anyway, insult aside, I disagree that I "need" the role defining to "not feel lost". I want the role defining so that my place in the party makes sense unlike in GW2 where it's just constant chaos in dungeon runs. I like to know as a tank who I need to pull threat from and the priority of each. I also as a healer need to know who's going to being taking the brunt of the damage and as dps and CC I like to know when I need to slow down or speed up or control adds and such. GW2 doesn't ever do that as I'm supposed to do all of that at once. It's annoying, tedious and frankly bores me to tears.
I end up never feeling like part of a party or a team but more like someone who rolled up next to a bunch of other players doing the same thing I'm doing trying to get through the dungeon. Like being pulled into a pack of running lemmings.
People, like the person you responded to, seem to confuse "liking to perform a certain role in a group" with "needing to be given rails to play on". The two, of course, are not the same.
Of course, it requires one to think critically about things, and not just jump to poorly constructed conclusions.
Exactly. I said "veiled" in an attempt to defuse the situation, but it didn't seem to work, lol. Anyway, about GW2. I have a Mesmer at 80, 100% exploration and all that jazz and I love the class. Especially in PVP. But in a group in PVE content, after playing a handful of other classes, I don't feel any different then the guy next to me. I guess that's my point. I like having a rhythm in the battle to follow and GW2 completely throws that out the window.
I think you have made it too simple. Maybe my experience is diferent but in most MMOs I have played, these roles you talk about are a gear and spec check to make sure you have the right tank, heal, dps build for the group. Typically, there is only one spec that fits the bill. Although most games allow you to think outside the box doing so means a majoirity of people playing that game don't want to team with you. The statement of rails reads as a metaphor to me for a single way to play really one role with one spec all documented in the game forums. I'll grant your experience could be different and the role filled could have a vast diversity to it. I've just never played that game.
I view GW2 as more individualized. I can customize my play style the way I want and still be a team member. There are bad builds and players that doesn't change. There are some who still want the gear check and specific roles filled but it's not the majority it is in most MMOs. The coordinated team work is harder to come by. Some of the dungeons can be completed not with the zerg tactic that some here would like you to believe but with each individual player playing well. These are the easiest and tend to be the ones that you can get a pug for. The more difficult it gets the harder it is to pug and the more teamwork is required. But your role is never singular of tank, healer, or dps so yeah that singular specialization, for the most part, doesn't exist.
"P4. This warrior has what appears to be a 2-handed axe. Are there any intentions on implementing 2 handed axes in the game, or will there be greatsword skins that are designed to look like axes?
Two handed axes are awesome. No reason to skin, lets save some cool stuff for expansions
Jon P"
That's from an arenanet dev. You will have your great axe.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
Op, i agree with you. That was one of the reasons I , like many of my friends, did not buy the game.
I found gw2 to be an RvR-wannabe daoc style gane but does not satisfy even the minimum goals. No trinity, no strong group setups. In general it's like "pew-pew" counterstrike game with some group additions and capabilities. No CC or speed for the zerg.
In PvE, afaik you don't even need groups, just go single player mode, follow the storyline, quests and voila you're 80. Then it comes to dynamic events farming at 80 for karma and some exotic gear (guess what, you don't need grps there either) just stick with the zerg currently doing the events.
Also, leveling starts to become uninteresting after a while, since at lvl5-6 you already have the weapon/abilities you will be using up to 80 (that's if you're going for that particular weapon combo).
After a while it's natural that this game will start to feel boring, I wonder why it took you 6 months to realize these aspects.
Sounds like you burned out. I rarely burn out because I never concentrate on a single game alone. I am still playing Darksiders 2 regularly and there is a bunch of games still packed and waiting to get installed and played through - namely Skyrim, Far Cry 3, Bishock Infinite, Castle Crashers and XCOM. I still need to finish Dishonoured and Deadlight, hence I will be busy for months.
These games and several matches per week in LoL prevent any sort of fatigue.
Op, i agree with you. That was one of the reasons I , like many of my friends, did not buy the game.
I found gw2 to be an RvR-wannabe daoc style gane but does not satisfy even the minimum goals. No trinity, no strong group setups. In general it's like "pew-pew" counterstrike game with some group additions and capabilities. No CC or speed for the zerg.
In PvE, afaik you don't even need groups, just go single player mode, follow the storyline, quests and voila you're 80. Then it comes to dynamic events farming at 80 for karma and some exotic gear (guess what, you don't need grps there either) just stick with the zerg currently doing the events.
Also, leveling starts to become uninteresting after a while, since at lvl5-6 you already have the weapon/abilities you will be using up to 80 (that's if you're going for that particular weapon combo).
After a while it's natural that this game will start to feel boring, I wonder why it took you 6 months to realize these aspects.
Well, if nothing else you've proven that you didn't buy the game.
I posted a very similar post when I left GW2. I felt a severe lack of grab in the game, all toons felt the same regardless of class. To me the distinct lack of forced grouping, the lack of diversity (every class has an AE, a snare, etc) killed it for me.
Grouping in Old school mmo's: meeting someone at the bar and chatting, getting to know them before jumping into bed. Current mmo's grouping: tinder. swipe, hookup, hope you don't get herpes, never see them again.
Was that a veiled attempt to say I have no imagination?
I wouldn't even call it "veiled" lol. They were quite openly insulting you (and anyone who thinks like you, apparently).
Anyway, insult aside, I disagree that I "need" the role defining to "not feel lost". I want the role defining so that my place in the party makes sense unlike in GW2 where it's just constant chaos in dungeon runs. I like to know as a tank who I need to pull threat from and the priority of each. I also as a healer need to know who's going to being taking the brunt of the damage and as dps and CC I like to know when I need to slow down or speed up or control adds and such. GW2 doesn't ever do that as I'm supposed to do all of that at once. It's annoying, tedious and frankly bores me to tears.
I end up never feeling like part of a party or a team but more like someone who rolled up next to a bunch of other players doing the same thing I'm doing trying to get through the dungeon. Like being pulled into a pack of running lemmings.
People, like the person you responded to, seem to confuse "liking to perform a certain role in a group" with "needing to be given rails to play on". The two, of course, are not the same.
Of course, it requires one to think critically about things, and not just jump to poorly constructed conclusions.
Exactly. I said "veiled" in an attempt to defuse the situation, but it didn't seem to work, lol. Anyway, about GW2. I have a Mesmer at 80, 100% exploration and all that jazz and I love the class. Especially in PVP. But in a group in PVE content, after playing a handful of other classes, I don't feel any different then the guy next to me. I guess that's my point. I like having a rhythm in the battle to follow and GW2 completely throws that out the window.
I think you have made it too simple. Maybe my experience is diferent but in most MMOs I have played, these roles you talk about are a gear and spec check to make sure you have the right tank, heal, dps build for the group. Typically, there is only one spec that fits the bill. Although most games allow you to think outside the box doing so means a majoirity of people playing that game don't want to team with you. The statement of rails reads as a metaphor to me for a single way to play really one role with one spec all documented in the game forums. I'll grant your experience could be different and the role filled could have a vast diversity to it. I've just never played that game.
I view GW2 as more individualized. I can customize my play style the way I want and still be a team member. There are bad builds and players that doesn't change. There are some who still want the gear check and specific roles filled but it's not the majority it is in most MMOs. The coordinated team work is harder to come by. Some of the dungeons can be completed not with the zerg tactic that some here would like you to believe but with each individual player playing well. These are the easiest and tend to be the ones that you can get a pug for. The more difficult it gets the harder it is to pug and the more teamwork is required. But your role is never singular of tank, healer, or dps so yeah that singular specialization, for the most part, doesn't exist.
Have you played Rift? You can have multiple specs and change them per fight based on what is needed all while still assuming a "role" in the party. I feel more indivualized in Rift than I do in GW2 and that's saying alot considering I find GW2 the better game over all, just not when it comes to class roles and trait builds.
I like having a rhythm in the battle to follow and GW2 completely throws that out the window.
AKA "being on rails" during the battle. Having guidelines which make every battle similar. AKA make all mobs behave like if they were braindead to the point of only attacking the most armored character while all the others nuke them into oblivion.
There was no insult in my previous post, not even veiled. Some people enjoy sticking to mechanics they know, and lack the will/ability/imagination to adapt to new mechanics. Nothing wrong with that. I've played WoW for 8+ years, I definitely won't belittle people who like that type of game with the trinity and taunt based tanking, I've been a tank for years and had a lot of fun.
Or maybe, as I said, you were just unable to find that rythm in GW2, when hundreds of thousands active players have found it and enjoy it.
You may think you aren't being insulting, but it's coming across that way. The error is in assuming that I'm not "getting it" when playing GW2. That couldn't be further from the truth. I can play it just fine, I just don't like the group play enough to play it any more.
FFXI was my first true taste of that rhythm in a party and playing as a team was a must and felt very satisfying to accomplish. Taking that away and making me a lone wolf with heals, tanking, dodging and dps all in one character while removing the rhythm of combat just makes combat all the more chaotic and meaningless, to me.
I adapt just fine, I just don't like having to when the trinity gameplay wasn't broken and works wonders in a game where you play with other people to accomplish goals.
I like having a rhythm in the battle to follow and GW2 completely throws that out the window.
AKA "being on rails" during the battle. Having guidelines which make every battle similar. AKA make all mobs behave like if they were braindead to the point of only attacking the most armored character while all the others nuke them into oblivion.
There was no insult in my previous post, not even veiled. Some people enjoy sticking to mechanics they know, and lack the will/ability/imagination to adapt to new mechanics. Nothing wrong with that. I've played WoW for 8+ years, I definitely won't belittle people who like that type of game with the trinity and taunt based tanking, I've been a tank for years and had a lot of fun.
Or maybe, as I said, you were just unable to find that rythm in GW2, when hundreds of thousands active players have found it and enjoy it.
You may think you aren't being insulting, but it's coming across that way. The error is in assuming that I'm not "getting it" when playing GW2. That couldn't be further from the truth. I can play it just fine, I just don't like the group play enough to play it any more.
FFXI was my first true taste of that rhythm in a party and playing as a team was a must and felt very satisfying to accomplish. Taking that away and making me a lone wolf with heals, tanking, dodging and dps all in one character while removing the rhythm of combat just makes combat all the more chaotic and meaningless, to me.
I adapt just fine, I just don't like having to when the trinity gameplay wasn't broken and works wonders in a game where you play with other people to accomplish goals.
We get it, you prefer simplistic predetermined stuff like trinity, and when you actually need to use cooperation and temawork you dont feel comfortable.
You may think you aren't being insulting, but it's coming across that way. The error is in assuming that I'm not "getting it" when playing GW2. That couldn't be further from the truth. I can play it just fine, I just don't like the group play enough to play it any more.
FFXI was my first true taste of that rhythm in a party and playing as a team was a must and felt very satisfying to accomplish. Taking that away and making me a lone wolf with heals, tanking, dodging and dps all in one character while removing the rhythm of combat just makes combat all the more chaotic and meaningless, to me.
I adapt just fine, I just don't like having to when the trinity gameplay wasn't broken and works wonders in a game where you play with other people to accomplish goals.
It's funny how differently different people perceive the same thing, is it not? I find, for example, much greater rhythm with GW2 combat than I did with the trinity style (WoW being my example). With a hard role like in WoW there was a rotation, but no rhythm, no flow. On my MM hunter there was a set rotation to maximize dps, and that's what I did. If I had to move it broke the rotation and "rhythm" up. I would have to stop and start the rotation fresh. With GW2, however, the whole fight becomes a sense of rhythm and feeling. Knowing the effects each skill has and when to best use them creates a combat awareness that a trinity styled game simply can't provide for me anymore. Instead of simply generic dps rotations I'm situationally aware and going with the flow of the fight. It's much more of a... dance? We'll go with dance for want of a better word.
Like I said, different people, different perceptions. We're both right, that's the beauty of it.
Op, i agree with you. That was one of the reasons I , like many of my friends, did not buy the game.
I found gw2 to be an RvR-wannabe daoc style gane but does not satisfy even the minimum goals. No trinity, no strong group setups. In general it's like "pew-pew" counterstrike game with some group additions and capabilities. No CC or speed for the zerg.
In PvE, afaik you don't even need groups, just go single player mode, follow the storyline, quests and voila you're 80. Then it comes to dynamic events farming at 80 for karma and some exotic gear (guess what, you don't need grps there either) just stick with the zerg currently doing the events.
Also, leveling starts to become uninteresting after a while, since at lvl5-6 you already have the weapon/abilities you will be using up to 80 (that's if you're going for that particular weapon combo).
After a while it's natural that this game will start to feel boring, I wonder why it took you 6 months to realize these aspects.
Let me list the suspicious points...
- Judges the game, pretending knowing how it works, yet says that he never bought yet, and therefore never played it.
- Uses "many of his friends" as reference to attempt to belittle the game's success. Just like many of someone's friends voted Romney, so it's impossible Obama won the elections.
- A "one post wonder" forum account... and the first post is bashing GW2, a game he admits he never bought.
If that doesn't smell funny, then the sewers of New York smell like roses.
Erm why do you feel the need to defend "your game" by judging my points? Don't you have something else to add to counter my argument? My account here or my post history has nothing to do with my criteria or opinion. I may have been watching this site longer than you, even if my account is fresh, yet you don't know for sure.
Also let me clarify this. I said i did not buy the game. That is when everyone jumped into it at the start. I have it now so my judging does have a point (for me at least).
I used "many of my friends" because well that's the circle i've been playing with. No, they didn't want to lose time with guild wars 2 and i don't blame them. Some started playing and abandoned it. It's a very casual game, it's not an innovation or something special. Do you want me to list every friend's name?
So, for the above as well, counter my points with some arguments.
Op, i agree with you. That was one of the reasons I , like many of my friends, did not buy the game.
I found gw2 to be an RvR-wannabe daoc style gane but does not satisfy even the minimum goals. No trinity, no strong group setups. In general it's like "pew-pew" counterstrike game with some group additions and capabilities. No CC or speed for the zerg.
In PvE, afaik you don't even need groups, just go single player mode, follow the storyline, quests and voila you're 80. Then it comes to dynamic events farming at 80 for karma and some exotic gear (guess what, you don't need grps there either) just stick with the zerg currently doing the events.
Also, leveling starts to become uninteresting after a while, since at lvl5-6 you already have the weapon/abilities you will be using up to 80 (that's if you're going for that particular weapon combo).
After a while it's natural that this game will start to feel boring, I wonder why it took you 6 months to realize these aspects.
Let me list the suspicious points...
- Judges the game, pretending knowing how it works, yet says that he never bought yet, and therefore never played it.
- Uses "many of his friends" as reference to attempt to belittle the game's success. Just like many of someone's friends voted Romney, so it's impossible Obama won the elections.
- A "one post wonder" forum account... and the first post is bashing GW2, a game he admits he never bought.
If that doesn't smell funny, then the sewers of New York smell like roses.
Erm why do you feel the need to defend "your game" by judging my points? Don't you have something else to add to counter my argument? My account here or my post history has nothing to do with my criteria or opinion. I may have been watching this site longer than you, even if my account is fresh, yet you don't know for sure.
Also let me clarify this. I said i did not buy the game. That is when everyone jumped into it at the start. I have it now so my judging does have a point (for me at least).
I used "many of my friends" because well that's the circle i've been playing with. No, they didn't want to lose time with guild wars 2 and i don't blame them. Some started playing and abandoned it. It's a very casual game, it's not an innovation or something special. Do you want me to list every friend's name?
So, for the above as well, counter my points with some arguments.
-Kthx for your 0/10 post however..
There is no way you know any of things you are discussing in your post if you haven't bought the game. So either you have, or not. If you blow the "I never played this, yet I know everything about it" trumpet, like you did in your previous post, then you will have to expect me to call shenanigans on it.
It's not up to me to prove anything. You come here, say "I've never bought the game", and then post a sort of "review" of it, including about level 80 content. Sounds to me like someone either using an alt account to bash the game, or simply repeating stuff he read in other negative people's posts without even knowing the game, or most likely both.
Sorry if I emit a serious doubt about your true intention with that first post of yours. Imagine a guy, someone you've never seen before, coming into your favorite restaurant while you sit there eating, and saying "I've never eaten here, but I know the food is crap". Wouldn't you be, at least, suspicious? Well, I am.
No offense taken well at least now that you elaborated.
But in your specific example if someone would come to your favourite restaurant and said all those things, would you just believe him or state some facts that in your opinion support your "restaurant" ? I would definately do the latter.
Anyway, i'm not saying you need to prove anything but you can certainly correct me on the specific spots I mentioned and you believe i'm wrong. That is what forums are all about after all.
Comments
I'm sorry, how does wanting a more defined class role equate to wanting things on rails? No one is asking them to change GW2 to be more like the "other" games, they are merely pointing out their reasons for not liking GW2. I define evolution as something that is inevitable and beyond our control. Changing games to be more like GW2 is not evolution, it is a concious choice to do things differently, even if many don't agree with it. That does not make GW2 the future of gaming for everyone. What is stagnate to you isn't for others. What is innovative to you is a movement in the wrong direction for others. Stop acting as if you are the authority on what is and is not the correct direction to go for MMOs.
Nice way to ignore his context of being a class that is unique within the group, not the overall game. Different strokes for different folks, learn it, love it, get over it. If anyone is showing a lack of imagination, it's you and your cronies.
Honestly, all insults & epeens aside, much of what you guys are complaining about is doable in GW2, you just can't think about it using the same ruleset as the traditional MMOs (EQs / WoW / Vanguard / etc.). For example, group comp in GW2 makes a huge difference. This isn't to say that they aren't all viable, but that how you structure you're group dictates how the fights will be. If you have a group that's mostly damage, heals, or straight up tanky (invulns, blocks, high toughness), you're fights are going to be super chaotic.
If you want more simplistic / organized fights, then you need to approach them as such. For example, If you wanted to go for a more trinity-minded group comp, bring a guardian or 2. If you're doing a dungeon that has a lot of ranged enemies (i.e. Caudicus' Manor) bring anti-range skills (wall of reflection, feedback, smokescreen, shield bubbles, whirlding defense, etc. etc. etc.). Bring some damage (warriors, necros, thieves), and bring some support / utility classes (elementalist, engineer, mesmer). Probably the most faceroll easy way to do most dungeons atm is guardian stacking. Put 2 guardians at the front with altruistic healing / symbols and area control abilities. Have your damage stack on the guardians for AoE heals / buffs / protection, and your backliners supporting from a safe distance. That strat works for most of the fights in this game atm.
- Also, the chaotic nature of the game's combat comes largely from the AI. However, the AI has fairly straighforward guidelines it follows. Unlike a standard, linear threat system; it's more like a pie chart. Understanding how this works allows you to manipulate fights into simpler encounters. For example, if you have anyone in your party with low HP, but super high damage, they WILL be getting hit often. Either have them prepare for that, or respec for more HP and less damage.
**I'm also not saying you guys are somehow wrong for not liking GW2's combat system. It is a matter of personal preference, and it's not for everyone. However, I am saying that a lot of people don't take the time to understand it fully before writing it off as a 'broken chaotic mess'.
People, like the person you responded to, seem to confuse "liking to perform a certain role in a group" with "needing to be given rails to play on". The two, of course, are not the same.
Of course, it requires one to think critically about things, and not just jump to poorly constructed conclusions.
Im just sad that gamers have turned into old timers that rock in their chairs and repeat "all this new mumbos jumbos make no sense to me, in good ol' days...."
This really has become site for disgrunteled old timers that cannot make peace that things move on. Want to be old timer? Fine by me. But you sure dont get to redefine established terms like "evolution" and "stagnation".
Which ANet has accepted as their fault due to their tutorial (Or lack there of) system.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
To be fair though.. Roles don't matter in WvW zergs, dragon fights, or when DEs are zerged. I haven't even finished all the dungeons yet, so i can't really comment how roles work in them.
In contrast to WoW, you need a healer and a tank for open-world dragons and bosses.
It's sad how this site has become infested with young and narrow minded gamers who break dance to hip hop and repeat "all this old mumbos jumbos makes no sense to me, in the future days....."
This really has become a site for disgruntled young and inexperienced gamers that cannot make peace with the past or make room for other play styles. Want to be young and inexperienced? Fine by me, but be sure to learn the definitions of evolution and stagnation before you insert foot in mouth.
Said like true old timer. /bow for making my point
I would make a longer post, but i learned in my quite expnasive life experience that presenting any facts to old timers is futile. They just wave they hand and mumble something in their chin 'bout "good ol' times".
Enjoy your rocking chair
Thing is. That this game does have roles.
As Guardian I can slot weapon + skills to either become a tank or switch to two-handed DPS or even slot a healer build.
I think that is the kind of freedom (a la TSW) people are uncustomed to after being so heavily conditioned by fixed class/role systems like in WoW, LOTRO, EQ2, etc these past years.
Both Guild Wars 2 and The Secret World tried to get away from fixed class/role systems, but in the end received a lot of flak for it.
Boggles my mind really. People keep complaining how many new MMO's are nothing but so called WoW clones.
Then both ArenaNet and Funcom try to break that mold..... and people are still not happy.
I myself love both GW2 and TSW and play both games currently. For me it's a breath of fresh air. Finally something a tad different.
Defiance could have been too, just that the game is currently just unfinished with too many issues. So I quit it for now and check back later.
But now I am enjoying my time in GW2 again (started over and was suprised how many low lvl players are still leveling up today
).
I think that is half the problem with it, it "broke" the mold (or tried to). What was wrong with bending the mold? ie. have 1 class that could tank or take hits, then have 1 that could heal, (the fun part...) the rest, lets call them DPSers, had the ballerina rolling about thingy. Now before the screams start... the players wanting old school could run with a tank & healer, BUT 5 DPSers could run the same dungeon and roll about like eejits if they wished, thus killing 2 birdies with 1 stone and all would be happy, though they probably woundn't, be happy I mean!
PS. That was a rough idea off the top of my head, there is probably 1,000 flaws in it. It was an example only.
No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!
...10% Benevolence, 90% Arrogance in my case!
Exactly. I said "veiled" in an attempt to defuse the situation, but it didn't seem to work, lol. Anyway, about GW2. I have a Mesmer at 80, 100% exploration and all that jazz and I love the class. Especially in PVP. But in a group in PVE content, after playing a handful of other classes, I don't feel any different then the guy next to me. I guess that's my point. I like having a rhythm in the battle to follow and GW2 completely throws that out the window.
I think you have made it too simple. Maybe my experience is diferent but in most MMOs I have played, these roles you talk about are a gear and spec check to make sure you have the right tank, heal, dps build for the group. Typically, there is only one spec that fits the bill. Although most games allow you to think outside the box doing so means a majoirity of people playing that game don't want to team with you. The statement of rails reads as a metaphor to me for a single way to play really one role with one spec all documented in the game forums. I'll grant your experience could be different and the role filled could have a vast diversity to it. I've just never played that game.
I view GW2 as more individualized. I can customize my play style the way I want and still be a team member. There are bad builds and players that doesn't change. There are some who still want the gear check and specific roles filled but it's not the majority it is in most MMOs. The coordinated team work is harder to come by. Some of the dungeons can be completed not with the zerg tactic that some here would like you to believe but with each individual player playing well. These are the easiest and tend to be the ones that you can get a pug for. The more difficult it gets the harder it is to pug and the more teamwork is required. But your role is never singular of tank, healer, or dps so yeah that singular specialization, for the most part, doesn't exist.
From the Reddit GW2 AMA before launch:
http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/uodjr/im_a_guild_wars_2_developer_ama_about_the_next/
"P4. This warrior has what appears to be a 2-handed axe. Are there any intentions on implementing 2 handed axes in the game, or will there be greatsword skins that are designed to look like axes?
Two handed axes are awesome. No reason to skin, lets save some cool stuff for expansions
Jon P"
That's from an arenanet dev. You will have your great axe.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
Op, i agree with you. That was one of the reasons I , like many of my friends, did not buy the game.
I found gw2 to be an RvR-wannabe daoc style gane but does not satisfy even the minimum goals. No trinity, no strong group setups. In general it's like "pew-pew" counterstrike game with some group additions and capabilities. No CC or speed for the zerg.
In PvE, afaik you don't even need groups, just go single player mode, follow the storyline, quests and voila you're 80. Then it comes to dynamic events farming at 80 for karma and some exotic gear (guess what, you don't need grps there either) just stick with the zerg currently doing the events.
Also, leveling starts to become uninteresting after a while, since at lvl5-6 you already have the weapon/abilities you will be using up to 80 (that's if you're going for that particular weapon combo).
After a while it's natural that this game will start to feel boring, I wonder why it took you 6 months to realize these aspects.
Well, if nothing else you've proven that you didn't buy the game.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Have you played Rift? You can have multiple specs and change them per fight based on what is needed all while still assuming a "role" in the party. I feel more indivualized in Rift than I do in GW2 and that's saying alot considering I find GW2 the better game over all, just not when it comes to class roles and trait builds.
You may think you aren't being insulting, but it's coming across that way. The error is in assuming that I'm not "getting it" when playing GW2. That couldn't be further from the truth. I can play it just fine, I just don't like the group play enough to play it any more.
FFXI was my first true taste of that rhythm in a party and playing as a team was a must and felt very satisfying to accomplish. Taking that away and making me a lone wolf with heals, tanking, dodging and dps all in one character while removing the rhythm of combat just makes combat all the more chaotic and meaningless, to me.
I adapt just fine, I just don't like having to when the trinity gameplay wasn't broken and works wonders in a game where you play with other people to accomplish goals.
We get it, you prefer simplistic predetermined stuff like trinity, and when you actually need to use cooperation and temawork you dont feel comfortable.
To each his own.
It's funny how differently different people perceive the same thing, is it not? I find, for example, much greater rhythm with GW2 combat than I did with the trinity style (WoW being my example). With a hard role like in WoW there was a rotation, but no rhythm, no flow. On my MM hunter there was a set rotation to maximize dps, and that's what I did. If I had to move it broke the rotation and "rhythm" up. I would have to stop and start the rotation fresh. With GW2, however, the whole fight becomes a sense of rhythm and feeling. Knowing the effects each skill has and when to best use them creates a combat awareness that a trinity styled game simply can't provide for me anymore. Instead of simply generic dps rotations I'm situationally aware and going with the flow of the fight. It's much more of a... dance? We'll go with dance for want of a better word.
Like I said, different people, different perceptions. We're both right, that's the beauty of it.
Oderint, dum metuant.
I took a long break from GW2 and am now just getting back into it.
I forgot how fun and beautiful the game simply is.
I burned out - that's for sure.
I hit 80 on my Guardian and quickly lost the desire to play every day, which then turned into weeks and weeks off.
Rolling a new toon is thus far very refreshing and fun.
Perhaps this time I'll get into WvW as my "end game" and bring honor and victory to my realm and guild.
The dungeons disappointed me, but I haven't played any since the patches.
We'll see - GW2 doesn't cost me anything further to enjoy which is a massive, massive plus to me.
Will hopefully continue to tide me over until the next batch of games is released.
Erm why do you feel the need to defend "your game" by judging my points? Don't you have something else to add to counter my argument? My account here or my post history has nothing to do with my criteria or opinion. I may have been watching this site longer than you, even if my account is fresh, yet you don't know for sure.
Also let me clarify this. I said i did not buy the game. That is when everyone jumped into it at the start. I have it now so my judging does have a point (for me at least).
I used "many of my friends" because well that's the circle i've been playing with. No, they didn't want to lose time with guild wars 2 and i don't blame them. Some started playing and abandoned it. It's a very casual game, it's not an innovation or something special. Do you want me to list every friend's name?
So, for the above as well, counter my points with some arguments.
-Kthx for your 0/10 post however..
No offense taken well at least now that you elaborated.
But in your specific example if someone would come to your favourite restaurant and said all those things, would you just believe him or state some facts that in your opinion support your "restaurant" ? I would definately do the latter.
Anyway, i'm not saying you need to prove anything but you can certainly correct me on the specific spots I mentioned and you believe i'm wrong. That is what forums are all about after all.