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Originally posted by stragen001 The biggest problem is tab targetting. TESO games have always been first/third person action combat style (cant think of the right word here) and thats what everyone was excited to see in an MMO. Then they said "yeah, we're not doing that"
imho combat was always the weakest part of any TES game... hyrbid gw2 style I think would work well for a game like this but ill save judgement till i get to play it..
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Originally posted by furbans People don't come here for constructive or civilized discussion, this site is nothing but non-stop shit talking about X MMO. From biased moderators to brownosing interview streams this site is anything but creditable discussions. All this site offers is some marketing and that's all, good place for forum PvP though.
Guess that could have been another title for this thread. "Forum PvP" Funny!
Wanna try SWToR? Or have not played in a few months. Please click my refer a friend link below and you get rewards as well.
Originally posted by GrayGhost79 Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by steuss People are rightly pissed because the TESO devs basically said, we're gonna make TES a MMO, and everyone was happy, but then people see the actual gameplay and think, "Wtf? this is tab, target, WoW clone bullshit, again. This is NOTHING like TES. I'm pissed. Why aren't you? Are you happy with mediocrity and green text?
You realize it's a soft target system that features hybrid action combat right? The combat is nothing like WOW. Besides I was under the impression actual "WOW clones" are games that focus on gear treadmills that gate content based on gear.
Its an exaggeration of some elements that many dislike about TESO. The hotbar was like a kick in the gut for a lot of fans. Once NDA is lifted players will get to go into more details. While it isn't really a WoW clone, its a lot closer to WoW than a lot of TES fans wanted.
How is the hotbar a problem? You can't pause an mmo and you already get the ability on the dpad to swap things, that has the same effect as a hotbar, so unless they never changed any of their spells or weapons or stopped to drink any potion in combat then they can't really complain about that because it really is the logical extension of a system that already exists in the ES games.
And the combat in ES was always its weak point. It is clunky and not very fluid at all. I personally do not believe I have ever had someone say that was one of the better points of the series.
Originally posted by RandomDown Originally posted by GrayGhost79 Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by steuss People are rightly pissed because the TESO devs basically said, we're gonna make TES a MMO, and everyone was happy, but then people see the actual gameplay and think, "Wtf? this is tab, target, WoW clone bullshit, again. This is NOTHING like TES. I'm pissed. Why aren't you? Are you happy with mediocrity and green text?
^ very much agree
Originally posted by Nanfoodle What I have seen on this forum is far from constructive feedback. Its been on the level of hate that is down right sad. They have made a concession but to please the mob mentality of this forum it would be no small task. You can label it as giving just your opinion and that is what some do but there is a vast number of people here who attack anyone that has anything opsitive to say about the game thats not in line with the small mob thats grown here. I hope the devs dont cave in at this point thinking this is the general status quo on ESO fans. Its mostly a MMOrpg.com theme thats is in almost every forum now. Hate is in, and we call it feedback. We hate before even get gameplay footage. We hate and tell devs how to make the game and whats wrong with it before we even play it. No wonder new games dont tell us they are even making a game till they are 3-4 years into development. We kick and bite at every design choice the devs make and as always, most people who like it dont post much past awesome I cant wait to play. So the devs mostly see the angery mob and start questioning if they should change their development path. Often games over the years has done just this and we gamers play a large part in why we are getting more and more crappy games. Developers no long just have fans, they have mobs that think they know better about game development then they and we create negitive feedback till they see it our way. Or else we will post something negitive in every thread and news outlet about the game. We drive away people thinking maybe our negitive thinking maybe true and often drive off new fans before any real reason is valid to do so. We dont have a product in had to be upset about. Like all the flipping out about the DAoC PvP model. Its just 1 part of the game. The PvE thats been talked about is rich and full of life much like TES. Sure its done in a MMO way but thats what needs to be done as TES with group play a MMO does not make. You have open world dungeons 2 and 5 man. Instance dungeons as well. Solo caves and ruins to explore. Join the mage guild and get rewarded for exploring. There is open world quests and free roaming quests. You also have the new phased events for orgnized guilds and groups to take on and on top of that you get level 50 you get 2 whole maps as elder game to explore to your hearts content. What game has to much elder game? But thats not what we talk about. We pick and pick at one point and make a storm on why its so bad till its changed. Then we pick a different point and do the same thing till all thats left is a shell of a game that was its original design. It becomes so messed up that when its finaly released we all say... see this game does suck but we are in a large part to blame. I hope the ESO devs keep the corse and not even bother coming to look at what the so called fans have to say here.
I've sometimes wondered if many of the mmorpg.com bloggers are just employees at various F2P gaming companies. It seems that I've seen more bashing of ESO and CU and more love for utter crap here than anywhere else. Uhh....am I getting a warning for that?
Originally posted by Nanfoodle Like all the flipping out about the DAoC PvP model. Its just 1 part of the game. The PvE thats been talked about is rich and full of life much like TES. Sure its done in a MMO way but thats what needs to be done as TES with group play a MMO does not make. You have open world dungeons 2 and 5 man. Instance dungeons as well. Solo caves and ruins to explore. Join the mage guild and get rewarded for exploring. There is open world quests and free roaming quests. You also have the new phased events for orgnized guilds and groups to take on and on top of that you get level 50 you get 2 whole maps as elder game to explore to your hearts content. What game has to much elder game?
This is the problem ,its odd if you dont see it if you are such a ES fan.
If you allready know how the game is I.E i have done these in wow 10000 times ,after this dung i go to next and i allready know where that leads then i join RvR while my daily is on cd.
Its nothing like ES.
There will be HUGE sings written over dungeon "beware adventurer ,this is 5 man dungeon"
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.**On the radar:http://cyberpunk.net/**
I don't hate this game. In fact I very much support the idea of an MMO in TES universe. My problem with this particular game is that the likelyhood of them releasing a shallow and underdeveloped game is very high, especially considering what the western MMO devs have released in the past few years. Games are made to be a quick cash grab, not a long term project, and that worries me greatly.
Really western devs have something to learn from games like AoW. Instead of bringing a list of examples, I'll just say that AoW at launch has around 150 different types of fish, each with its unique use and tie to other crafting skills. I hope this gives people an idea of how elaborate and in depth a game can be, from the start, not 2 years down the line. I'm not even going to get started on the amount of skills you can learn in that game and the different types of activities that you can do. It is very clear that the game was made to keep people interested for longer than 2 months. Compare that to something as shallow as GW2.
Originally posted by PAL-18 Originally posted by Nanfoodle Like all the flipping out about the DAoC PvP model. Its just 1 part of the game. The PvE thats been talked about is rich and full of life much like TES. Sure its done in a MMO way but thats what needs to be done as TES with group play a MMO does not make. You have open world dungeons 2 and 5 man. Instance dungeons as well. Solo caves and ruins to explore. Join the mage guild and get rewarded for exploring. There is open world quests and free roaming quests. You also have the new phased events for orgnized guilds and groups to take on and on top of that you get level 50 you get 2 whole maps as elder game to explore to your hearts content. What game has to much elder game?
err daoc doesnt have shite like dailys, instanced dungeons and pvp you have to queue for
Back on the "If you don't have the same really positive attitude I have then you must be full of HATE!!!!!!" vibe again Nano?
Basically, people have opinions. Not all people have the same opinions. Just because someone has a differing opinion to you and your's is positive simply means they do not agree with you. Stop using the word HATE in every thread you start or join.
If you are an adult then you know that hate and dislike are not the same beast. Yes some people dislike the direction the game has taken. Yes they are baseing their opinion on the same information you have. NO, just because their opinion is negative and youre's is positive doesn't mean tehy hate the game and you are the shining white knight here to defend TESO's honor.
Put it this way, if you dislike the fact that people are negative about the game based on the info currently available and a shitty video then perhaps, just perhaps, you are baseing your positive opinion falesly just as much as you accuse those with negative opinions.
It isn't hate. It is a difference of opinion and everyone is entitled to share theirs. So while I do not have a problem with you singing TESO's praises I will ask you to politely STFU about people's hate of the game.
Originally posted by Piiritus Actually I'm getting sick of Daoc mentioned in every TESO thread. It it TES game or some half-arsed Daoc reincarnation then with TES skin to bump the sales? Every time I read how Daoc TESO is I get less interested in this MMO.
its nothing like DAOC
the only things it shares with daoc are equality of gear regardless of playstyle and 3 factions with some sort of semi persistent pvp area. (and the semi-persistent nature is GW2 not daoc)
A cursory look at its feature list revals it shares more things with wow, tsw, gw2 and swtor amongst others than it does with daoc.
Originally posted by ShakyMo Originally posted by PAL-18 Originally posted by Nanfoodle Like all the flipping out about the DAoC PvP model. Its just 1 part of the game. The PvE thats been talked about is rich and full of life much like TES. Sure its done in a MMO way but thats what needs to be done as TES with group play a MMO does not make. You have open world dungeons 2 and 5 man. Instance dungeons as well. Solo caves and ruins to explore. Join the mage guild and get rewarded for exploring. There is open world quests and free roaming quests. You also have the new phased events for orgnized guilds and groups to take on and on top of that you get level 50 you get 2 whole maps as elder game to explore to your hearts content. What game has to much elder game?
i dont know much about daoc,played it for a while and didnt like the UI,fantastic game sure but i decided to play something else in that time.
But this ES thingy,if they even tried to make it in honor of ES,there only would be dungeons ,just dungeons and let people decide if those are 2 man or 100 mans or whatever mans .
Originally posted by Nanfoodle Originally posted by GrayGhost79 Originally posted by Nanfoodle
I am one of many fans of ESO is who the target audience. Been playing TES games forever. I have played them to death. I am a HUGE TES fan. I will admit my fav PvP I have ever played was DAoC but this game has more then enough TES in it to make any fan happy if they would take time to look past the mob.
Obviously not, you are trying to say anyone that doesn't like the direction is simply following the hate mob. I however formed my opinion by watching the videos, reading the information, and getting some actual play time with the game. I've been a TES fan since daggerfall and no, TESO doesn't have enough TES in it to make me happy so your statement as much as you wish it were true is not. You will have to simply accept that.
Oooo got to play for 20 min and you think you know the game? How cute. Guess most MMOs get to full swing by then who knew.
His 20 mins is a hell of a lot more exposure to the actual game play than you have had with all of your constant assumptions and accusations.
Ok so basically having gone through your previous posts and seeing the choral approval you've given to the game I could call you a fanboi. There's about as much truth in that as there is in you calling me a hater. Neither statement is true.
Closer to the truth is that you like the direction the game is taking. In your opinion there is enough TES included to justify the title and you get the bonus of DAoC RvR, which you were also a fan of.
It's also closer to the truth that I don't approve because, in my opinion, there isn't enough TES. Geography and names aren't enough for me. Including a class structure that will restrict my playstyle to that class's abilities only is not good enough for me. Placing Faction Locks and restricting my ability to freely roam the PvE world isn't enough for me. Why? Well, because that's not how TES games have played in the past. The inclusion of 3 faction RvR, which I also enjoyed in DAoC, doesn't feel right to me because it's from DAoC and not TES.
Just because I don't think the game is being true to the TES IP and have voiced that opinion on this forum doesn't make me a hater. It makes me a TES fan that's unhappy with Zenimax and the direction in which they're taking an MMO I was looking forward to.
My personal favourite was Daggerfall. After progressing through around 5% of the actual storyline, I ditched it and struck out on my own path. I joined the theives guild, refused to join the assassin's guild, was repeatedly attacked and ambushed by them as a result (and beat the snot out of them every time), carried a huge 2h sword, wore plate armour, picked locks and pockets, was a dab hand at levitating and healing and also threw a mean fireball. That is The Elder Scrolls! I got months of play out of that game, and then did it all over again as a vampire, then again as a lycantthrope. That's what I wanted to see the MMO based on.
I don't hate TES:O. I'm just very disappointed that it's not being done in a way I would consider suitable for a TES MMO. As long as I'm not banned from these forums I'll continue to voice that opinion as often as I like, despite any opposition from others.
Make no mistake, this is feedback. This is me saying "Hey Zenimax! WTF are you doing? That's not TES, you muppets! What's wrong with you guys?".
"Oh no, theres instancing, tab targeting and GASP a hot bar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
LMAO....who really gives a flying fck? Seriously..........Who really gives a sht if theres tab targeting? Ive used it for years and have zero problems continuing to do so.
Instancing? " Oh no, my immersion is lifting!!:" silly children......get real, a five second loading screen is absolutley nothing, no big deal.......
These 'problems' are anything but problems. Spoiled silly mmoers thinking they know how to design an mmo...
All Will Be Well.....
Originally posted by hammarus Perhaps we as a gaming culture have been burned so often that we are entitled to our hate.
Your expectations are unrealistic, as usual. You THINK you know better then everyone else. In reality, you have no idea....
Originally posted by ShakyMo Originally posted by Piiritus Actually I'm getting sick of Daoc mentioned in every TESO thread. It it TES game or some half-arsed Daoc reincarnation then with TES skin to bump the sales? Every time I read how Daoc TESO is I get less interested in this MMO.
I don't mind that RvRvR area and it can actually be fun. I just want to see enough TES in that game, including more freedom than in some MMOs you mentioned. Well, time will tell.
Btw, I'm sure I'll buy and play TESO. I'm just expressing my scepticism based on contradictory information we have so far.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle attack anyone that has anything opsitive to say about any game
Fixed a minor flaw in your premise. Because I think you're feeling unfairly picked-on or singled out.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle Originally posted by GrayGhost79
When developers or publishers choose a target audience they have to appeal to that target audience or they will fail to achieve the level of success they both predict and have based spending on.
Age of Conan, TERA, and SWTOR just to name a few picked an audience, failed to listen to and appeal to said audience and didn't meet their goals. This hurts both players and the developer. Players end up feeling ripped off because a game touted as a game made for them turned out not to be and yet another $60+ goes down the drain, it hurts developers because then they are scrambling to fix things when its already to late. Content has to be pounded out in a short amount of time, the business model needs to be reworked, mechanics and systems need to be changed and tweaked, then they have to deal with all of this and much more while being forced to lay off the bulk of their staff.
TESO has chosen TES fans as their target audience and this was done so the moment they decided to go with the name and the lore. If they fail to appeal and listen to their target audience it will end up causing everyone a lot of headaches and dissapointment down the road which has been proven time and time again. Look at FFXIV and what it had to go through after failing to appeal to its target audience and listen to them. They ended up having to spend twice as much as planned to develop the game in the end and their earning potential has been severely reduced after the failed first launch.
Though that isn't the point of your post. You wanted to say that even though it may seem like the majority doesn't agree with the direction they are taking TESO you want Zenimax to know that its just a vocal minority and that far more people like it and just don't post on this forum. The games I listed had people saying the same thing you are saying now about them, the silent majority never materialized though and the games struggled. Would you like me to post similar posts from the FFXIV forums saying pretty much the same thing about it that you are saying now?
I agree with the second poster.
As far as the first poster, who said they should appeal to Elder Scrolls fans as their primary audience, please tell me, exactly what MMORPG endgame do those players want? Because they can not do Elder Scrolls levelling content forever. For hardcore players, maybe a month or two even with slow levelling. Then what? They have to go beyond RPG content and have MMORPG endgame content that can keep players interested for many months. Basically there are two MMORPG models for doing that: 1) the Everquest/WoW model of PvE dungeons with epic bosses that only large well coordinated groups can do, and 2) a PvP model such as DAoC or other PvP endgame games. They seem to be offering mostly the latter, with a bit of the former. THERE IS NO REAL WAY TO SAY WHAT ELDER SCROLLS FANS PREFER BECAUSE NEITHER OF THOSE THINGS IS IN ELDER SCROLL RPG'S.
ESO can NOT just be Elder Scrolls RPGs in groups, there is no way to provide enough content to last beyond a few months. They have to add an MMORPG endgame which by definition means it cant just be Skyrim online. Thats the reality. People keep saying that they should just stay loyal to the Elder Scrolls RPG but those people do not say how they can provide endgame content by doing that... because they cant.
Elladan - ESO (AD)Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)Kili - WoWEol - Lineage 2Camring - SWGJustinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC
The developers used their RvRvR template to stamp out an end game for ESO that did not require continuous content creation. Not a terrible plan. The problem was that they went the easy route and designed in a contiguous region, racial lock for the defining element of the factions. No reason they really had to; it was just what they were familiar with, and relatively simple to do. It does cause a ruckus with the a lot of the Elder Scrolls fanbase though.
I'd have put in three factions that had some actual ideology/background/theme, and let people join up. It would have required more work, but would have better fit the milieu. Don't think it is even remotely possible now.
The best choice they could make at this point would be to allow any race to be a member of any faction while keeping the faction lock gameplay. NPCs will be set up that way, I assure you. They could even do something like monetizing it, charge you something to be an out-of-faction character. Given that they have already genericized the content (They have too: no way you'd get the same reactions to a Nord, a Dunmer, and an Argonian without it), it wouldn't take much to open that up. It would go a ways to ameliorating the feedback they are getting right now.
As for gameplay, well, there are always going to be issues. Some of them come from the physical nature of playing a game through the internet, with it's myriad of specs and problems. Certain ways of doing things are known to work. We may not like them, but experimenting with your hundreds of million dollar game is risky. Not that being conservative will always succeed either (ie, SWToR).
I think that ESO will have some serious problems unless it is managed very well. There's a huge body of ES fans that are uninterested in the RvR endgame, and even if captured as players by the game's background, they will start to leave when they run out of stuff of interest to them. Regardless of what the RvR plays like.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
If you don't follow the majority and have your own taste, that's good. Complaining about the mob mentality is pointless, they'll just mob on you harder.
I recently stopped giving a flying shit about what my friends are playing, or what the majority is playing... or what their thoughts on games are. It's pretty liberating to play what you want to play. If you think a game sucks, don't play it or support it financially, that speaks louder than anything you could ever post on here does.
There's a slew of new games coming out that deserve a try. Who cares who's playing what? The best thing about MMO's is you can always find another guild.
I don't agree with the mob mentality, but how can you be certain of anyone's motives? Me, I watched a few gameplay videos. Some were better than others, but I still think the ranged combat looks like garbage, irrespective of how good the player was. There's no doubt in my mind that I'm going to give the game a try no matter what the internet has to say about it. My main worry is that the developers are hoping to make their money back on name recognition alone, and then basically throw their hands in the air and say "Yeah it was mediocre, but we still got paid, thanks suckers".
I think it's a valid concern.
Originally posted by Eol- Originally posted by Nanfoodle Originally posted by GrayGhost79
It seems that both you and Nanfoodle are fixating on this RvR aspect of the game and blaming all opposition on it's inclusion.
That's just not the case. I and many others have brought up other aspects of the game which we feel don't properly reflect the franchise.
Lets leave the 3 faction RvR aside as an end game mechanic and talk about something else that is affected by it. Elder Scrolls games have always allowed you the freedom to explore Tamriel. Regardless of your point of origin you can go anywhere. So lets say I want to be a Redguard. Now I'm faction locked into an alliance I have no choice over. I'm restricted in where I can go to play the PvE game until I hit the level cap.
Now that's nothing to do with RvR at all, this is the PvE game we're talking about, and not end game PvE either. That restriction goes against every Elder Scrolls game to date.
Maybe I'm not interested in RvR. Why isn't it a choice to join this alliance? Why is there no option to leave it, allowing me to leave the area and PvE in other regions? Wouldn't that be more in keeping with a real Elder Scrolls game? Allowing the player that choice? Lets' face it, every Elder Scrolls game to date has been a PvE game. They had to be, being single player games. Now we're suddenly given the MMO and it's PvP centric. I can see that rationalisation for Warhammer, or Warcraft or a number of other IP's, but not for TES.
Now lets move on to another subject which has nothing to do with RvR at all. Classes. Classes in Elder Scrolls games have always been used as templates and nothing more. There was always an option to use no template and just mix and match what you wanted. If you did use a template, you weren't locked in to some list of class skills and abilities. You were free to use any skill, ability or spell you wanted to. And yet here we are with classes. Not Elder Scrolls is it?
I'm going to be guilty of saying what a lot of others have said now, but I'll explain my reason for it. This feels like DAoC with a TES name. There I've gone and done it. Ok, so now the reason.
Faction locking: Ok so I used Redguards as an example already so let's stick with that. I make a Redguard, I'm now locked to that Alliance, my PvE game is restricted to that region, and I will RvR at end game, playing the class I chose when I created my character.
How is this different to me making a Briton, being part of the Albion Realm, levelling up in PvE inside that realm's borders and doing RvR at end game as, let's pick a Paladin, the class I picked at character creation?
I'll tell you what the difference is. The names. That's it. Nothing else, just the names.
Now you can call me a hater all you like, you can accuse me of being short sighted and not understanding that they need some sort of end game. You can use whatever justification you like to try and deny what I'm saying. The simple truth is, this is DAoC with different names. Now I loved DAoC, until they fucked it with ToA, and I'd like nothing better than to see a new DAoC released. I just object to it being called The Elder Scrolls Online. I'd much rather it was called something more appropriate, and "The Elder Scrolls Online" was used for an MMO that was based on the design philosophy of the single player games. Classless, no skill resrictions, free roaming open exploration. It needs to be more sandbox than themepark. There need to be more player choices in all areas of the game. And if you have to include PvP (which you really don't) at least implement it in a way that makes sense for the IP instead of borrowing a system from another game which just doesn't make sense.
So let's stop blaming this all on 3 faction RvR. There's more to it that just that one thing.
Originally posted by wordiz If you don't follow the majority and have your own taste, that's good. Complaining about the mob mentality is pointless, they'll just mob on you harder. I recently stopped giving a flying shit about what my friends are playing, or what the majority is playing... or what their thoughts on games are, it's pretty liberating to play what you want to play. If you think a game sucks, don't play it or support it financially, that speaks louder than anything you could ever post on here does. There's a slew of new games coming out that deserve a try. Who cares who's playing what? The best thing about MMO's is you can always find another guild.
Great for the individual, but companies and developers building large, expensive games absolutely have to pay attention to what the larger audience thinks about paying for their game. The developer's investment in the game has to match the amount of money that will be coming in. Misjudge that badly enough, and you will be out on the street.