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A question for those who are experienced with Neverwinter.

BigdaddyxBigdaddyx California, WAPosts: 1,985Member Uncommon

I enjoyed the beta a lot and looking forward to playing the game on 30th (i am still F2P). As we know that heroes and guardians are getting access to the game from 25th and 27th onwards and there will be no more character wipes after that. I was a little tempted to buy the guardian pack for early access.

But after a lot of thinking i realised that i don't care much for the all the titles and other fluff that comes with guardian pack. I am also ok with playing game on 30th as a F2P member. But then i saw that they are offering around 600,000 astral currency.

That got me curious. Is it worth it? or should i just continue as F2P and buy astral from the in game shop? i have no idea about in game pricing but for those who have seen it is it cheaper to buy astral in game or guardian pack is a better deal?

And the most important question..how much of my game play is dependent upon astral currency as a F2P? or i can just skip it all together without being at huge dis advantage.

Need some advice before i decide to spend 60 bucks.

Comments

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,064Member Uncommon
    You can just wayt the 3 more days till the 30th, there is absolutely no reason to buy the pack except from the early access.  Espescially not on the long run.

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • MajiinXMajiinX new hyde park, NYPosts: 89Member
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    You can just wayt the 3 more days till the 30th, there is absolutely no reason to buy the pack except from the early access.  Espescially not on the long run.

    Totally agree I think its best to wait and see how the game is before you invest. I always approach F2P games wth caution especially since this is PWE. If the game is good i'm sure they will have deals comperable to what they are offering now.

  • ranncoreranncore omaha, NEPosts: 93Member

    I love the game, and supporting the company is nice and all that, but my advice is to wait and play it when it's released as F2P. It seems like getting AD just by playing the game will be relatively easy. We really don't know the value of 600,000 AD yet, beyond any implications that can be drawn from the 22k refinement limit. 

    Regardless, the whole point of the F2P system is to try it before you buy it, so I recommend you do that. 

  • ReizlaReizla AlkmaarPosts: 3,300Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx

    But after a lot of thinking i realised that i don't care much for the all the titles and other fluff that comes with guardian pack. I am also ok with playing game on 30th as a F2P member. But then i saw that they are offering around 600,000 astral currency.

    I'm not sure how much the 600K astral crystals will be worth in ZEN. During the beta weekend I saw ZEN go fo 400-500 diamonds, but I'm not sure how that rate got there since there was no ZEN in the game at all - prolly PWI set the rate this way. If this rate is a slight indication of the actual worth in the end, it'll mean that you'll have around 1200 ZEN, which is only $12. So for this you don't have to do it...

    If you're into the fluff stuff, then it's a good deal. The pet, mount and extra char slot alone are already worth it (mounts in the ZEN shop are for each character available, while pets are for a single character). The rest of the fluff I think is nice. I'm also wondering what that "Robe of Useless Items" really will give. Should be fun to see lots of crappy stuff to drop on the ground :D

    The title..? Can't realy be bothered with it to be honest. I have a 'Founder' title in more MMORPGs and I never really use it (not the bragging type...)

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  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,204Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Reizla
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx

    But after a lot of thinking i realised that i don't care much for the all the titles and other fluff that comes with guardian pack. I am also ok with playing game on 30th as a F2P member. But then i saw that they are offering around 600,000 astral currency.

    I'm not sure how much the 600K astral crystals will be worth in ZEN. During the beta weekend I saw ZEN go fo 400-500 diamonds, but I'm not sure how that rate got there since there was no ZEN in the game at all - prolly PWI set the rate this way. If this rate is a slight indication of the actual worth in the end, it'll mean that you'll have around 1200 ZEN, which is only $12. So for this you don't have to do it...

    If you're into the fluff stuff, then it's a good deal. The pet, mount and extra char slot alone are already worth it (mounts in the ZEN shop are for each character available, while pets are for a single character). The rest of the fluff I think is nice. I'm also wondering what that "Robe of Useless Items" really will give. Should be fun to see lots of crappy stuff to drop on the ground :D

    The title..? Can't realy be bothered with it to be honest. I have a 'Founder' title in more MMORPGs and I never really use it (not the bragging type...)

    Dilly is about 80:1 in STO.  The reserves of AD in beta I think were put there by Cryptic so that exchange rate may or may not be realistic.  It's not so much that Cryptic can set a hard rate (I don't think they can) but that people offer their AD or Zen at a requested rate and then people are free to buyout at that rate or offer an open purchase at a lower rate.

    I agree with ranncore.  I would wait.  The best deal out of the packs are the mounts and you can earn those in game.  The $60 pack seems to be the best deal, but I personally don't find it to be worth $60.

    I agree about the titles.  Titles in mmos now are a dime a dozen and letting everyone know I'm a founder with a title doesn't appeal to me.  I think most founders will sport their exclusive mounts if they need validation.

  • ranncoreranncore omaha, NEPosts: 93Member

    It's just plain better for everyone for someone who tries the game for free, and doesn't end up liking it, but walking away without any regrets, than someone to jump into the game throwing money at the screen only to be disappointed by something and scream away angry. 

    To be quite honest, because of the inherent nature of change in MMOs, even if you enjoy this game now, it will probably one day disappoint you. But that doesn't mean you have to regret any purchases you make til then. 

    The reason the F2P model works so well is because it allows players to enjoy content, for as long as they want, and gauge how much it is worth to them, before they are asked to pay for it. So use the F2P model the way it was designed to be used. Play it until you're sure you want to spend money on it, and no matter what happens, if or when you lose access to or interest in this game, it will be with fond memories instead of regret. 

    I guarantee you, 90% of the posts about how "awful" this game are, will stem from people who made purchases before they were sure that they were going to enjoy them. 

  • JasonJJasonJ New Port Richey, FLPosts: 395Member
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx

    But then i saw that they are offering around 600,000 astral currency.

    That got me curious. Is it worth it? or should i just continue as F2P and buy astral from the in game shop? i have no idea about in game pricing but for those who have seen it is it cheaper to buy astral in game or guardian pack is a better deal?

    And the most important question..how much of my game play is dependent upon astral currency as a F2P? or i can just skip it all together without being at huge dis advantage.

    Need some advice before i decide to spend 60 bucks.

    That is something no one can answer for you because the AD is used to buy items in game so only YOU can say if those items that cost AD have enough value for your money.

    Personally, I wish I hadnt bought the founders pack after seeing their ZEN shop prices. I already have a refund in progress and will just be going with the F2P version until they release an Asian client. PWI vastly increases the cash shop items in western nations out of pure greed.

    Once the Asian client is out my guild will be using that one...why pay $30-40 on an item here, when it will be $10-20 there. makes no sense, its a virtual item, there is no import/export/shipping/handling fees invovled to drive up prices...its just a bunch of pixels...and the ZEN items are way better than the in game AD items.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    I'm looking forward to playing this title, but as others have said unless you're into the fluff items that come with the package deal it really isn't worth it just for the AD. I would just wait since you said you weren't really interested in those "perks" anyways.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • darksilverdarksilver Emden, FLPosts: 44Member

    I play more then one char, so as a altoholic the guardian pack is worth the price for me.

     

    All my chars will have access to a tier 3 mount without spending astral diamonds for upgrades. As a free player you can buy one at lvl 20 for ~2gold (no big deal) but it is only a tier 1.And again all my chars have a epic (highest lvl companion) striker pet right away. You get a free companion with a quest as a free player but with normal quality and upgrading it will cost you again astral diamonds.

     

    Even the auction house works only with astral diamonds so extra 600k seems not so bad. Oh and the founder packs go away when this games goes live (aka open beta) 30.apr..........

     

     

  • BigdaddyxBigdaddyx California, WAPosts: 1,985Member Uncommon

    Thanks for the replies guys but one of my question is still un answered. 600, 000 AD with guardian pack or 600,000 AD from in game shop. Which is better deal.

    I have no experince with in game prices.

  • DaezAsterDaezAster new york, NYPosts: 803Member
    Looking forward to trying this game as well, made my account few days ago. Have a question as well, was wondering if the forge will be available to all wether to create or just play others created dungeons?
  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by DaezAster
    Looking forward to trying this game as well, made my account few days ago. Have a question as well, was wondering if the forge will be available to all wether to create or just play others created dungeons?

    assume you mean the foundry.. yes its open to all.. forgot the exact level think you can start using it around level 15

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • darksilverdarksilver Emden, FLPosts: 44Member
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx

    Thanks for the replies guys but one of my question is still un answered. 600, 000 AD with guardian pack or 600,000 AD from in game shop. Which is better deal.

    I have no experince with in game prices.

    Nor do we. Let me explain the zen <-> astral diamond price is not set by cryptic but by us the players. 

     

    Now the other 2 cryptic games use a similar currency. In CO the use questionite and the price is now 201. In STO the use dilithium and the price is now 123.

    In NW we can only guess how much it will be worth. 2 Month ago some found a item in the zen store that you could buy too with astral diamonds and it was around ~210 zen so with this, your 600k would worth 2857zen. So in $ it would be worth ~ 50% of the founders pack price then ...

     

    The problem starts here, as you can see the price with CO vs STO is way different and even in this games the price goes up or down a lot. In STO it was down to 86 zen 3-4 month ago but it raised with another lock box (with good items) and later again with a additional rare gambling item (bug ship) to a whooping 123 zen now.

     

    To make it even worse in Neverwinter, the auction house works only with Astral Diamonds and thats unique. Throw in all the hundred and thousands astral diamonds with packs (in a interview the said last bw4 weekend only for founder players or friend key user, over 20k player participate) and now calculate.

     

    So in the end, your guess is so good as mine where the astral diamonds to zen ratio ends in NW..............

     

     

     

     

  • BigdaddyxBigdaddyx California, WAPosts: 1,985Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by darksilver
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx

    Thanks for the replies guys but one of my question is still un answered. 600, 000 AD with guardian pack or 600,000 AD from in game shop. Which is better deal.

    I have no experince with in game prices.

    Nor do we. Let me explain the zen <-> astral diamond price is not set by cryptic but be us the players. 

     

    Now the other 2 cryptic games use a similar currency. In CO the use questionite and the price is now 201. In STO the use dilithium and the price is now 123.

    In NW we can only guess how much it will be worth. 2 Month ago some found a item in the zen store that you could buy too with astral diamonds and it was around ~210 zen so with this, your 600k would worth 2857zen. So in $ it would be worth ~ 50% of the founders pack price then ...

     

    The problem starts here, as you can see the price with CO vs STO is way different and even in this games the price goes up or down a lot. In STO it was down to 86 zen 3-4 month ago but it raised with another lock box (with good items) and additionl anohter rare price (bug ship) with gamling item to a whooping 123 zen now.

     

    To make it even worse in Neverwinter, the auction house works only with Astral Diamonds and thats unique. Throw in all the hundred and thousands astral diamonds with packs (in a interview the said last bw4 weekend only for founder players or friend key user, over 20k player participate) and now calculate.

     

    So in the end, your guess is so good as mine where the astral diamonds to zen ratio ends in NW..............

     

     

     

     

    Ok i get it now;) it is more or less like GW2 where market is controlled by the players.

    Thanks a lot for explanation. I will surely wait and see after release before making AD purchase.

  • darksilverdarksilver Emden, FLPosts: 44Member
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
    Originally posted by darksilver
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx

    Thanks for the replies guys but one of my question is still un answered. 600, 000 AD with guardian pack or 600,000 AD from in game shop. Which is better deal.

    I have no experince with in game prices.

    Nor do we. Let me explain the zen <-> astral diamond price is not set by cryptic but be us the players. 

     

    Now the other 2 cryptic games use a similar currency. In CO the use questionite and the price is now 201. In STO the use dilithium and the price is now 123.

    In NW we can only guess how much it will be worth. 2 Month ago some found a item in the zen store that you could buy too with astral diamonds and it was around ~210 zen so with this, your 600k would worth 2857zen. So in $ it would be worth ~ 50% of the founders pack price then ...

     

    The problem starts here, as you can see the price with CO vs STO is way different and even in this games the price goes up or down a lot. In STO it was down to 86 zen 3-4 month ago but it raised with another lock box (with good items) and additionl anohter rare price (bug ship) with gamling item to a whooping 123 zen now.

     

    To make it even worse in Neverwinter, the auction house works only with Astral Diamonds and thats unique. Throw in all the hundred and thousands astral diamonds with packs (in a interview the said last bw4 weekend only for founder players or friend key user, over 20k player participate) and now calculate.

     

    So in the end, your guess is so good as mine where the astral diamonds to zen ratio ends in NW..............

     

     

     

     

    Ok i get it now;) it is more or less like GW2 where market is controlled by the players.

    Thanks a lot for explanation. I will surely wait and see after release before making AD purchase.

    Yeah good idea. Just another note. PWE does every few month special sales with a.) discount offers (in sto for ship)or b.) for additonal zen (like +15%). if you ever spent $ for it............

     

  • koboldfodderkoboldfodder Danbury, DEPosts: 390Member Uncommon

    The game has no subscription.  They give you the bare minimun, and you are expected to fork over money for things you want.  So a traditional MMO would maybe cost you about 50 dollars to buy and 15 and month, so for a year that is around 225 if you get a free month.

     

    So Neverwinter it seems like a greate idea.  Hey, it's totally free......then you see the ridiculous prices on some of the items.  A horse will cost you about 40 dollars right there.  What if you do not want the bare minimum and want more bells and whistles.  No problem, just plunk down the money....just be sure to do if for EACH character you create because a lot of the stuff is not account-wide purchased.

     

    The truth is that if you want to really experience the total game you are going to pay a lot more than 225 per year for Neverwinter.

     

    Just play it free and aovoid paying for anything, if you can....

     

    BTW, 600,000 Astral Diamonds seems like a large amount but it is not.   

  • darksilverdarksilver Emden, FLPosts: 44Member

    Yeah f2p games are not that free but is this a surprise? Devs need to be paid like we do, server cost money and so on.

    IMHO a game like STO has a very fair model, more or less you can get every item if you play the game but this takes time, less if you play more then once char. (In cryptic games so far, there is a limit how much you can transfer e.g. astral diamonds into zen but this limit is pro char and not pro account).

    So here we are, as an example you can craft a item, first tier job would take 2min, one tier late it could use 1h. To speed it up you can spent astral diamonds and *bang finish the item in seconds. So what you do, play the game have fun, get astral diamonds as rewards for playing the game or do you dump down 1 grand to finish the stuff instantly and brag about it. :p

    To quote some GDC data from 2012



    3/4 of customers never come back after the try out the games.
    83% play the game less then 10 times and generate 3% of sales.
    7% pay more then 100 dollars and generate 84% of sales
    customers that pay more then 100 or even 500$ are called "the whales"

    As you can see most players don't spent cash, so the question is for me only is the game fun, yes or no.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by koboldfodder

    The game has no subscription.  They give you the bare minimun, and you are expected to fork over money for things you want.  So a traditional MMO would maybe cost you about 50 dollars to buy and 15 and month, so for a year that is around 225 if you get a free month.

     

    So Neverwinter it seems like a greate idea.  Hey, it's totally free......then you see the ridiculous prices on some of the items.  A horse will cost you about 40 dollars right there.  What if you do not want the bare minimum and want more bells and whistles.  No problem, just plunk down the money....just be sure to do if for EACH character you create because a lot of the stuff is not account-wide purchased.

     

    The truth is that if you want to really experience the total game you are going to pay a lot more than 225 per year for Neverwinter.

     

    Just play it free and aovoid paying for anything, if you can....

     

    BTW, 600,000 Astral Diamonds seems like a large amount but it is not.   

    I'm not going to defend their prices because frankly some of it does seem way overpriced. Although, I think this is intended because they plan on offering a large amount of sales to make some feel like they're getting a great deal when they jump on items that go on sale.

    Regardless, your remark that to completely experience the game you would have to pay 225 or more is utterly false. It is more relative to how much fluff or "bells and whistles" as you put it that you want. This is one of the less invasive cash shops I have seen in quite some time which thankfully even includes a way for people to earn many of the items within the game iteself unlike what some have done.

    Now down the road things may change and your remark may hold true at that point because we all know how some companies mutate their cash shop at times into a beast that does limit players and becomes horrifically invasive. Sure as hell doesn't now.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • gillrmngillrmn ArnhemPosts: 250Member

    The prices are high because the items in mall are not neccessary to buy but are more of collector's items. So to have a sense of exclusivity they have kept the prices high.

  • vmopedvmoped Athens, GAPosts: 1,708Member
    Originally posted by darksilver
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx

    Thanks for the replies guys but one of my question is still un answered. 600, 000 AD with guardian pack or 600,000 AD from in game shop. Which is better deal.

    I have no experince with in game prices.

    Nor do we. Let me explain the zen <-> astral diamond price is not set by cryptic but by us the players. 

     

    Now the other 2 cryptic games use a similar currency. In CO the use questionite and the price is now 201. In STO the use dilithium and the price is now 123.

    In NW we can only guess how much it will be worth. 2 Month ago some found a item in the zen store that you could buy too with astral diamonds and it was around ~210 zen so with this, your 600k would worth 2857zen. So in $ it would be worth ~ 50% of the founders pack price then ...

     

    The problem starts here, as you can see the price with CO vs STO is way different and even in this games the price goes up or down a lot. In STO it was down to 86 zen 3-4 month ago but it raised with another lock box (with good items) and later again with a additional rare gambling item (bug ship) to a whooping 123 zen now.

     

    To make it even worse in Neverwinter, the auction house works only with Astral Diamonds and thats unique. Throw in all the hundred and thousands astral diamonds with packs (in a interview the said last bw4 weekend only for founder players or friend key user, over 20k player participate) and now calculate.

     

    So in the end, your guess is so good as mine where the astral diamonds to zen ratio ends in NW..............

    The actual price is not set by Cryptic/PWE, but the range is, which has been 50-500 AD to 1 zen.  Also bear in mind that STO and CO have essentially free currency for their lifetime/subscriber base that this game will not have.  AD acquisition is earned by gameplay/crafting in NWO, and there are alot of AD sinks in the game.  I believe that initially it will be a poor exchange rate that will increase as the founder packs spend/exchange their tons of AD.

    As has been stated, the mounts and companions in the founder's packs are rank 3, which for the mounts, would run you 2 gold plus ~2.65 million AD to get to rank 3.  We don't currently have experience with the companion ranking manuals yet, but I would think, based on other costs, it will be expensive in terms of AD to rank up your companions.  So in regards to that the guardian pack is worth it's price in terms of reducing time required to acquire these resources. 

    Waiting prior to buying is always advised if you are skeptical, especially for a f2p game.

    So far, from BWE experience, the zen/AD stores appear to sell items that either apply cosmetic changes or save you time.  Let us hope they keep it this way.

    Cheers!

    MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S

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