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[General Article] Defiance: Review In Progress #3

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,622MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

We are winding down our series of 'review in progress' articles for Trion Worlds' Defiance. In the third installment, we take a look at PvP and the latest (and largest) patch. Check out our thoughts before adding your own to the mix in the comments.

Another week in Trion’s MMO shooter, and this time we’re going to focus on the PVP aspects of the game, its recent mega-patch, and even a little bit of the show.  I figure, since I’ve been slowed in my playtime since my young progeny came into the world, we’ll take another week after this, and then hit the final Review in early May.  I’m not about to scrimp on the time needed to get this right, just because my days are filled with dirty diapers. I’ve logged nearly thirty hours and have broken into the EGO 300+ range. I’ve spent a few days this week with the Echelon PVP and the Shadow War, so let’s start with them, shall we?

Read more of Bill Murphy's Defiance Review In Progress #3.

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I was sad to find this Bar was not the “social hub” I’d hoped it would be.

Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

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Comments

  • BattlerockBattlerock Youngstown, OHPosts: 1,393Member
    First impressions are so critical. I played this for the first week but found myself bored. Didnt dabble to much with pvp because the main attraction for me at the time was mmo on a console. Unfortunately the best part about this game is questing solo. What pvp I did play, I just felt like there are already dozens of other options available that offer superior pvp.

    I did not watch the show which is no suprise since I only watch sports on tv and news

    I mentioned first impressions because while they said they will be changeing alot, im afraid I have moved on already.

    Idea was great it just didnt fill my expectations. Looks like it back to the good ole pc for me.

  • BrucyBonusBrucyBonus londonPosts: 220Member

    The patch has improved the game a little at least.  I have now played through the main storyline twice and experienced most of the rest of the content but still find irritating little issues causing me to log off, for example: -

    1) The social functions or lack thereof. 

    2) The time trials are handled server side with the result that +2-10 seconds are regularly added to your time knocking you from one medal category into the next.  Contrarily the weapon damage is handled client side with several one-shotter modders ruining gameplay.  

    I feel like I have experienced all the content in a few short evenings of gameplay (I am circa 1000 ego with the weapons I use at lvl 20) and just hope more content is introduced to keep me returning, as I enjoy the gameplay a lot. 

  • DaranarDaranar Walkersville, MDPosts: 177Member Uncommon
    Well done Mr. Murphey.   As I have said many times before, I love your reviews as they are always fair!   This is a well put review and I have to aggree, it is a genre of its own.   It really is something we have not seen before and that is getting a lot of people upset for some reason.  It is lacking traditional MMO features and is at best a midiocre shooter, but boy does the combo work for me :)   I for one am enjoying the game emensly and love the show.  Yes the graphics and predictability are corny, but what SyFy show doesnt share those 'features'?   As we all know true nerds don't need the best special effects and writing (save that for the Avenger 'Hipster Nerds'), we just need a world we can get lost in.   So on that, Thanks Trion!   And thank you Bill for not spending a review bashing the game, but rather, calling it for what it is; new, unique, and a ton of fun for some of us.  :)

    If I want a world in which people can purchase success and power with cash, I'll play Real Life. Keep Virtual Worlds Virtual!

  • WolfClawsWolfClaws Arlington, VAPosts: 554Member Uncommon

    Bunny hoppers are annoying as hell.  It is cheap and it is effective.  My suggestion is like you said dimishing returns on the successive hops, and / OR make the crotch a crit point.  So if the person jumps in front of you, when you shoot where his head was, you still hit the nuts and crit on him.

    Plus it is always cool to shoot someone in the huevos :P

     

    I cannot agree with the making the Shadow War 24/7.  The intensity is driven by having the 32 on 32 action with capping points and whatnot right then and there.  They do need to extend the times and allow for the newbies to play to get a feeling for what they are supposed to do, I suppose.  The deathmatch games they HAVE to increase the kills to like 35 or 50 or something.. cause they end WAY too soon.

     

    The biggest improvement from the patch is seperating text chat with voice chat.  When you muted voice chat your Text Chat Window was "muted" too.  So there was no way to communicate with people if you have voice off. 

    Speaking of Voice chat..  I will caps this, as it is that important... MAKE VOICE CHAT PUSH TO TALK BY DEFAULT!!!  No one wants to hear someone breathing heavy and calling for their mother.  Nobody.

    Right now they don't have PTT in the game as far as I have seen... even in the alpha there were pleas to make PTT the norm, but...

    There are cheaters in game.  Some are obvious, some not so much.  There are some who exploit the game by ... well let's just say, those one shots from a shotgun from 15 meters away.... not equipment in their inventory...

    So yes, they need to crack down harshly on the cheating.

     

    But the game is fun.  And let them throw in brand names... let more car companies pay to have their cars put in the game.  More variety and their bottom line gets fulfilled.

     

    The show and this game, have nothing in common so far.  Except there is an arc "reactor" and the Votan.   Other than that..not so much.  Besides, while I DO like this game, I prefer watching "Darla" :P

     

  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk LiverpoolPosts: 976Member Uncommon

    Fixing the VOIP highlights where their priorities are, namely consoles. What they should be really looking at is fixing the fucking chat system, but they won't because it's mainly something that PC players will be worried about and I'm pretty sure that PC will be a fairly small percentage of the population.

    It still feels like I'm playing a solo game most of the time, and that's pretty much down to the fact that nobody bothers to type in chat, why should they, it's fucked.

    Definately starting to lose faith in this one. Haven't logged in for days apart from checking to see what the patch fixed. And seeing that chat is still a steaming pile of shit, well I just logged off again.

  • tharkthark FalunPosts: 1,147Member Uncommon

    Thanks for the review Bill :)

     

    I think the Shadow War isnt actually a clone of the same map...The players are there , you just can't shoot them unless you sign up...

    Atleast , I saw them when I went inside the purple area withou signing up..I saw one of those mounted gun cars with players..

     

    I think ...Defiance is a great game, I always said they needed this combat system -the hightech gun weaponry in Rift..The combat in Rift(classic MMO style) felt complely wrong when partaking in overland Rifts..and now we have Defiance so  I guessed they felt that at some level aswell :)

    I do however feel that they need to open up the game more in a rather hasty manner, othervise players will bore out eventually..The combat is fun and hectic  in the normal gameplay But The Arkfalls has to be more strategic and difficult, right now it's basically impossible to die in a large one unless you are just to  few players..

    .For me Defiance is a solid 8/10

    Feels kinda weird that It get's such a low overall score thou..It's fun and got a hell of a potential to be great even..

  • BrucyBonusBrucyBonus londonPosts: 220Member
    Have to second the fact that Mr Murphy writes an unbiased and detached/ objective review.  Prefer reading them to most.  If he is reading, does he personally like the game, can he see himself playing it long term?   
     
  • MilitantMilitant nyc, NYPosts: 48Member
    I watched the show and liked it. I'm a syfy junkie and this will satisfy my itch, it got good reviews and had a good premier. I'm going to pass on the game though. I just hope if the game fails or just isnt profitable enough it doesnt have a negative impact on the show.
  • BillMurphyBillMurphy Managing Editor Berea, OHPosts: 2,365MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon
    @Brucy: from the article mon frer!

    "Overall, I’m still quite enjoying Defiance despite it being sort of halfway between competent shooter and competent MMO. It’s almost a genre all its own, and that’s probably why in later weeks of the advertising campaign, Trion backed away from calling it an MMO shooter (among other reasons I don’t need to rant again about here). If a game’s fun, that’s really all that counts. I like hopping online for ten minutes to several hours and progressing the missions, engaging the pursuits, and getting gibbed in PVP. "
  • BluntedJBluntedJ White Plains, NYPosts: 5Member

    I went through the trouble (and you know what I mean if you've registered) of creating an account simply to point out one thing:

    You used this word: "niggling"

    Really? Is that the word you chose? What do you think little Liam (is that who you keep blaberring about that came into this crappy world?) would say 10 or 20 years from now?

    Just only one thing to say about the use of that word: THAT'S RACIST.

  • tiddytiddy londonPosts: 23Member
    Originally posted by WolfClaws

    Bunny hoppers are annoying as hell.  It is cheap and it is effective.  My suggestion is like you said dimishing returns on the successive hops, and / OR make the crotch a crit point.  So if the person jumps in front of you, when you shoot where his head was, you still hit the nuts and crit on him.

    Plus it is always cool to shoot someone in the huevos :P

     

    I cannot agree with the making the Shadow War 24/7.  The intensity is driven by having the 32 on 32 action with capping points and whatnot right then and there.  They do need to extend the times and allow for the newbies to play to get a feeling for what they are supposed to do, I suppose.  The deathmatch games they HAVE to increase the kills to like 35 or 50 or something.. cause they end WAY too soon.

     

    The biggest improvement from the patch is seperating text chat with voice chat.  When you muted voice chat your Text Chat Window was "muted" too.  So there was no way to communicate with people if you have voice off. 

    Speaking of Voice chat..  I will caps this, as it is that important... MAKE VOICE CHAT PUSH TO TALK BY DEFAULT!!!  No one wants to hear someone breathing heavy and calling for their mother.  Nobody.

    Right now they don't have PTT in the game as far as I have seen... even in the alpha there were pleas to make PTT the norm, but...

    There are cheaters in game.  Some are obvious, some not so much.  There are some who exploit the game by ... well let's just say, those one shots from a shotgun from 15 meters away.... not equipment in their inventory...

    So yes, they need to crack down harshly on the cheating.

     

    But the game is fun.  And let them throw in brand names... let more car companies pay to have their cars put in the game.  More variety and their bottom line gets fulfilled.

     

    The show and this game, have nothing in common so far.  Except there is an arc "reactor" and the Votan.   Other than that..not so much.  Besides, while I DO like this game, I prefer watching "Darla" :P

     

    lol... funny read ... crotch shots ftw!

    Bunny hopping is, like, rappent in all MMO's even in ones where it doesn't make a blind bit of a difference like WoW and Rift. Not much you can do about it really. 

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,214Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BillMurphy
    @Brucy: from the article mon frer!

    "Overall, I’m still quite enjoying Defiance despite it being sort of halfway between competent shooter and competent MMO. It’s almost a genre all its own, and that’s probably why in later weeks of the advertising campaign, Trion backed away from calling it an MMO shooter (among other reasons I don’t need to rant again about here). If a game’s fun, that’s really all that counts. I like hopping online for ten minutes to several hours and progressing the missions, engaging the pursuits, and getting gibbed in PVP. "

    I'm curious about the genre of its own.  I sort of get that as a shooter it could be considered mediocre and that as an mmo it doesn't quite fit, but the combo seems to work for the fans.  How does this paradigm compare to PS2 and Firefall or other MMO-Shooter types?  How do they differ?

  • NephaeriusNephaerius Baltimore, MDPosts: 1,539Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BluntedJ

    I went through the trouble (and you know what I mean if you've registered) of creating an account simply to point out one thing:

    You used this word: "niggling"

    Really? Is that the word you chose? What do you think little Liam (is that who you keep blaberring about that came into this crappy world?) would say 10 or 20 years from now?

    Just only one thing to say about the use of that word: THAT'S RACIST.

     Yeah niggling is no more racist than the word niggardly learn2english.

    Steam: Neph

  • BillMurphyBillMurphy Managing Editor Berea, OHPosts: 2,365MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon
    BluntedJ, I hope you're kidding. Just in case though, the meaning of niggling:

    Verb
    Cause slight but persistent annoyance, discomfort, or anxiety: "a nasty leg wound which still niggled at him".
    Find fault with (someone) in a petty way: "he loved to niggle and criticize people".

  • VamperoVampero Chicopee, MAPosts: 38Member
    You can say it sucks and it is not a real MMO.

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  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,191Member Uncommon

    Why developers think they have to have voice coded in their game is beyond me.  Outside voice servers work far better and software available is better.  

    I was disappointed with the game, why it is pared with the TV show is the big question as the TV show is nothing like the game at all.

    I was hoping Trion would do a better job on this game as their past games have shown promise.  This was one project they were not up to.

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by Ozmodan

    Why developers think they have to have voice coded in their game is beyond me.  Outside voice servers work far better and software available is better.  

     

    SoE's is decent and the only one Ive seen used, but still not as good as the major providers.

    However forcing voice on everyone and making typing nonexistent/an inconvenience is not smart imo.  people will see absolutely no chat happening and think the game is not lively.

  • ZoeMcCloskeyZoeMcCloskey Phoenix, AZPosts: 1,148Member Uncommon
    Interesting, still pondering on this one.

    image
  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk LiverpoolPosts: 976Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by strangiato2112
    Originally posted by Ozmodan

    Why developers think they have to have voice coded in their game is beyond me.  Outside voice servers work far better and software available is better.  

     

    SoE's is decent and the only one Ive seen used, but still not as good as the major providers.

    However forcing voice on everyone and making typing nonexistent/an inconvenience is not smart imo.  people will see absolutely no chat happening and think the game is not lively.

    Because it's a console game. It's UI is a dead give away. The prime market is consoles. We poor PC fuckers get a buggerd chat system they don't give a fuck about because console players don't generally use key/b they use in game voip.

  • aligada87aligada87 Queens, NYPosts: 219Member
    so the question is since trion has backed down from calling it an mmo, are they still going to add more mmo features to it , or simply just work on the tps and neglect the mmo of the game? if so i will be sad since the game is fun, but lacks mmo features.
  • BrucyBonusBrucyBonus londonPosts: 220Member
    Originally posted by BillMurphy
    @Brucy: from the article mon frer!

    "Overall, I’m still quite enjoying Defiance despite it being sort of halfway between competent shooter and competent MMO. It’s almost a genre all its own, and that’s probably why in later weeks of the advertising campaign, Trion backed away from calling it an MMO shooter (among other reasons I don’t need to rant again about here). If a game’s fun, that’s really all that counts. I like hopping online for ten minutes to several hours and progressing the missions, engaging the pursuits, and getting gibbed in PVP. "

    haha, half an answer.  

  • TerrornautTerrornaut Roselle, NJPosts: 11Member Uncommon
    They definitely polished gameplay from the Betas, but still, with some lacking mmo features, I dont want a repeat of DCUO launch and chat being obnoxious.

    The show isnt good, isnt bad. I hope they get their pacing better and lose some of the heavy cliche elements...really unimpressed by the writers/direction, save the dialogue quibble.
  • BrucyBonusBrucyBonus londonPosts: 220Member
    Originally posted by Terrornaut
    They definitely polished gameplay from the Betas, but still, with some lacking mmo features, I dont want a repeat of DCUO launch and chat being obnoxious.

    The show isnt good, isnt bad. I hope they get their pacing better and lose some of the heavy cliche elements...really unimpressed by the writers/direction, save the dialogue quibble.

    Yeah, the show is certainly not Battlestar Galactica/ Game of Thrones/ Walking Dead. 

    Cliched, unsubtle and heavily relying on rather trite action sequences.  

  • MargulisMargulis Glendale, AZPosts: 1,614Member
    The show was actually good enough to get me back into the game for a few days, because I had stopped playing already up until it aired.  And a couple days later I'm done again for now.  There just isn't enough content, and what's there is so........... mediocre.  The side missions are horrible, but some of the main missions aren't bad.  Unfortunately the ratio is about 3 or 4 side missions to every 1 main mission.  Also, the arkfalls have become completely boring.  I think there are 4 major arkfall varieties in the whole game, which is really small.  Also the game seems to have such an identity crisis.  On one hand it's a hugely loot focused game like Borderlands - BUT - the loot in this game is hardly any different between ego levels or even rarity color.  So at first it's like "yes loot everywhere", but now it's like meh, who cares.
  • GravargGravarg Harker Heights, TXPosts: 3,332Member Uncommon
    The shadow wars is what keeps me playing.  I'm not very PvP centric usually, but when you get in one of the big shadow wars battles, it is one of the best experiences you'll have in any game.  I do like Bill's idea to just make the Shadow Wars a flag/unflag thing in the open world, but it still fun in it's current form.  I don't think this game would be as fun solo though.  I'm always with a group of friends, some I've known since the days of neverwinter nights back in 1991 lol.  Running missions with a group with voice chat is fun.  I still haven't used the ingame chat, since my guild has an open chat server, it is nice to be able to tell someone to meet up at such and such spot, then you go around blasting mutants, hellbugs, or grouping up for pvp.
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