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Originally posted by Wickedjelly Originally posted by DamonVile Originally posted by maplestone Originally posted by DrCokePepsi ~To anyone who says they're looking for a linear, themepark game rather than an open virtual world, simply get off of this site and play your shiny little Xbox 360.
This is where I stopped reading.
Me too. Anything after a statement like that is just going to be a waste of time.
Pretty much my sentiment as well.
That was my favorite line. Attempting to grab the number of players, and the social acceptability of console gaming has turned MMORPGs into simplistic garbage.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
Originally posted by maplestone Originally posted by DrCokePepsi ~To anyone who says they're looking for a linear, themepark game rather than an open virtual world, simply get off of this site and play your shiny little Xbox 360.
(trying to bully people out of the room immediately forfiets any interest I might have had for your ideas; it's simply a matter of principal ... er, I mean principle)
This is where I STARTED READING !
MMOs used to be mmos. Now their crap. Now we have all the hybrid players here trying to overwhelm topics.
I really liked the part about " If your in it for graphics,get out ".
If some developer would make a hard real virtual world, WHERE PLAYERS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR COMMUNITY, It would take off and be the most popular mmo out..........GW2 with it's auto everything is not new and improved, It's simply auto everything ! It would not surprise me if the next so called improvement will be auto play the game for you completely. And everything before that would be called old school.
Good job OP
Don't feed the trolls Delete5
For the most part SWG was the first MMO I really started playing and, when it came out I thought for sure by 2013....
A DECADE LATER
we would be able to play something that looked similar to "Watch Dogs" but online. If I had known that we'd be playing the games we are playing now........
What I'm equally shocked about is how many folks think these new games are awesome. Is Defiance really that awesome? I mean, SWG eventually got JTL.
I mean, can you B*tches not add space to sci-fi games at release yet?
These f0ckers are tryin to set me up so it's like...play WOW or read Twilight, even Salvatore isht all over his last novel. Can we catch a break here?
I see where the OP is coming from but really you can't place blame on the players. It rests firmly with the developers. They're the ones making the games.
They target a wider audience by making the games easier to play. It's no surprise that there are more people playing MMO's today. That's exactly what the developers want and it's why they changed the way MMO's play. And of course they want more players, that makes them more money.
It won't be long before MMO's are another genre of games made for consoles with bad ports to PC's. It happened with FPS games, SRPG's and soon MMO's will go the same way.
We already have Defiance which is blatantly a console game, soon we'll have Destiny which so far is only available as a pre-order for Xbox and PS3, no PC version at all.
And to be honest the genre is already beyond saving. Look at some threads running now with people complaining about anti social PUG's, players that just race through content, the ease in reaching the level cap.
Even the term "MMO" isn't what it used to be. Look at some of the games on this site which are referred to as MMO's but aren't. D3, WoT, DayZ, Smite, Vindictus and the list goes on. Lobby games with a cash shop are now considered "MMO's", small scale 15v15 maps and it's an MMO? 4 player dungeon crawlers considered an MMO?
You may find indie developers trying to make a more old school MMO but they'll be niche games. The mainstream will continue to pump out easy mode trash in an effort to make as much money as possible. And that means going to consoles because it's a much bigger market than PC.
This is for all you guys who sit here and rant back and forth, complain about graphics, complain about people complaining, want the consolers to get out of "your" MMO's and vice versa.
Go play a MUD learn to appreciate something for what it is and stfu.
Originally posted by GreenHell If you can't understand that the industry is just reacting to what people want than you are blind.
It works 2 ways, if all the devs look at is MMO themeparks post-WOW and only build MMOs that have the same strategy, no wonder most MMO players play themeparks because they don't have any choice.
The successful sandboxes that are still alive are niche games and meant for a specific group of players, example EVE Online.Adds to that that the group of MMO players grew the last decade, where you had the generation of 'nerds' playing EQ and others hardcore, in 2004 suddenly there was a arcade style 'easy to step into' MMO called WOW on the market catering the more casual players.
Since many players hold WOW as a MMO benchmark, I am curious what would happen if there was a MMO with:
-same engine-same environment, in this case fantasy-no levels but for example progression like in SWG-armor decay and player generated economyIn short: a WOW sandbox mmo where the players generate the content mostly...
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Originally posted by DamonVile Originally posted by maplestone Originally posted by DrCokePepsi ~To anyone who says they're looking for a linear, themepark game rather than an open virtual world, simply get off of this site and play your shiny little Xbox 360.
Same, the OP needs to stop being such a glutton for punishment and get with the times.
Originally posted by pbat263This is for all you guys who sit here and rant back and forth, complain about graphics, complain about people complaining, want the consolers to get out of "your" MMO's and vice versa.Go play a MUD learn to appreciate something for what it is and stfu.
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Seems many SWG fans have forgotten one of the main reasons they made NGE: because many SWG players was leaving the game to play WoW. Which means that SWG pre-NGE was not so great after all.
I only play MMO's with good graphics and gameplay. If one of them sucks, I dont play it.
Bad MMO's get shot down, the not so bad survives.
you know whats funny?
all those vets... playing games that came out AFTER world of warcraft.
there are a few examples.
daoc, eq, neocron... some more some less successfull, but these games came out like 10-13 years ago.
actually they have been linear as hell (most of them). actually the grouping system sucked in them, there were hardly any players online after 2 AM and if you had no guild, you basically didn't see endgame.
now we have alot of new mmos, obviously. eg, some of those are crab, others not. that's the way it works. you can't produce THE HIT, you can produce your vision of a game, and hope the trolls will like it.
the games didn't change, the players did.
back the days we were happy with what they gave us. that was basically like the beginning of "modern" TV. there where like 5 stations. and when they showed sth, you watched it, and you liked it.
it was new, it was without competition and actually it was the only thing to look. if you didn't like the movie they gave your for the evening you had to do sth else.
and, shocking, the same thing happened to mmos. when EQ and the first of the 2nd gen came out. there were no 100 alternatives to check and maybe play. those were the mmos you could play, or not.
now you have like 100 mmos or even more, you can check em, decide if you like em, and maybe keep playing - or not.
that doesn't make the whole genre bad tho, otherwise books would all suck nowadays (since potter is a PoS), and i doubt that's sth anyone wants to say, eh?
that's what happens when you turn from a niche market to a mass market.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Originally posted by Scot I still play Lotro, it says something about the MMO industry when a six year old MMO still looks that good and plays that good.
LOTRO is a great game and it is getting better with every expansion imo. ROR is rely great (fantastic music, mount combat, great looking landscape, some great looking mobs etc)
uh and for the record...
everquest, dark age of camelot, neocron, anarchy online.
just a few examples of "classic" mmos which are still running, do you play any of those? if not... why?
Well except for the part with companies being "greedy". As an economist, I have to say this part really hurts my ears...or eyes if you will.
Originally posted by Onomas This entire statement is trash. Old games had no features? Are you serious or just trolling? Older games had 100 times more features in them than in todays games. Much more to do than your 5 day long story with crappy voice acting. 400k back then is about equal to a few million today considering only 1 in 20 had internet back then compared to 1 in 3 today. 400k was a huge number and nothing to feel shameful about. Games also lasted for years upon years, not months like today. Some still hold a steady number of player even today. Saying old games didnt have features lol. Thats funny. I guess your idea of features is hand held path finding, no exploration, small maps, 5 day long story, hit max level in 3 days, no crafting, no housing, no social aspects, no interaction with animals/creatures in your game world, no grouping, no player created content? because thats what your new games are today. Only a fraction of what older games offered. But the kiddies want em fast and easy like a console rpg, so the developers go after that market. Not because its better, but because thats where the money is at. And 95% of them fail. We see more companies go bankrupt, sell out, flop more so now than the first 10 years of the industry. When the games and companies should have failed the most. Even WOW said they were targeting the younger crowd. Its pretty cut and dry.
You call it trash then go on to agree with a lot of what I said.
You totally missed the point about sub numbers...not really surprised.
You call anyone that likes mmos now kiddies so you can just dismiss their opinions on games. Obviously they're too young to know what a good game is and should just sit at old grandpas feet and learn...../rolleyes.
95% of mmos don't fail...you just don't like them. A failed mmo goes off line. Very few actually do that, but like I said 400k players = failed mmo now days. Funny that you still said it.
What's wrong with mmos today is you don't like them. But the way you want an mmo to be made doesn't sell...that should tell you something about your opinion on games.
Tottaly agree bro the truth is even more sadyl than you describe it here. I'm not talking about only mmo but I'm talking about also the good rpg's like fallout and diablo.
Don't worry bro some us have a plan to make a big company to create what we want. And after all you need only 1 good mmo to play. You will get you super addictive 18 + rated massively game soon.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
OP - old and new MMOs are awesome.
Seems to me your anger stems from another life-issue and you are just using this post as an outlet to channel your anger.
Originally posted by Sparka I also agree with the OP, its why I'm having no fun with MMO's anymore....this f2p, pay to win sh1t is NOT FUN!
The grind has always been there, if a F2P game offers you a way to reduce the grind without giving you a handheld nuclear tiped shaped charge (ex: it giving you only xp boosts or slight cash boosts as opposed to "gold" items which are pay to get only) then that is as close to a free to play and enjoy MMO as you're gonna get until someone figures out how to make a pay by processing power system. I do agree with you though that Pay to Win games (F2P, B2P and even some crappy P2P games which try to get away with it) need to burn in a poetic fire due to their money grubbing enjoyment stealing ways.
I can really relate to the OP.
I started out with Everquest, Anarchy Online, Daoc, Ragnarok Online, Lineage 2 as my first mmorpgs and that ofc set somewhat of a standard for me. I agree that after WoW the quality of content plummeted into simplified features with a constant lack of content and the idea of living in the virtual worlds became something of the past. Politics and social communities became non-existant due to casualization features and games being released as if they were merely made for a "quick buck".
I havent fully enjoyed an mmorpg for years due to this. I want this virtual world that isnt instanced and where the community is key. This hasnt really happend since EQ2 and finally theres games on the horizon that prioritize some of these things.
The new "features" doesnt impress me anymore! I want a vast world with content and a living community! The rest is just bullshit in my ears.
"Winning" at EVE Online since May, 2007!
In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™ "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon