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Originally posted by Dihoru Originally posted by GroovyFlower Dont want a known IP want a original mmo on the wild west around 1850. I want a Sandbox openworld western mmo ala skyrim gameoworld with total freedom, but more sandbox like build a settlement-fort or indian village. Trainrobbers-stagecoach-settlers-cowboys-indians-ranches-wells fargo-billy the kid-appachys-sioux-chayyene indians ext.
Sorry but the genocide of a race of people (the indians) makes that era a bit.. taboo, like having an MMO based on World War 2 which has the whole conflict including the Holocaust (why do you think you don't really see many/any references to the Holocaust visually within video games set in the second World War?).
I have to disagree. The Dead Lands RPG weaved the conflicts and troubles of the indigenous people into its lore and never seemed to cause a sense of outrage. The Wolsung RPG, a steampunk setting, had a Germany equivalent nation that had engaged in a world war style aggression, and for obvious reasons, they choose not to include a Holocaust equivalent. I don't want to get into an argument about moral equivalency, but to say that the Wild West is taboo and then bringing up the Holocaust doesn't seem to be an accurate statement.
He's basically just asking for a Red Dead Redemption MMORPG. I'd love to play an Apache in an online game. Those guys were like the original American special forces. I personally think that historical slice of life MMOs would be a very interesting project, and the Wild West was certainly a time where things changed incredibly fast, and just as quick, was gone forever.
Originally posted by fivoroth Originally posted by Dihoru The best IP to use in an MMO is an original IP. Period.
Yet the most successful MMO of all times is not based on an original IP.
WoW is based on Warcraft, which is an original IP of Blizzard.
Originally posted by red_cruiser Dune would make an interesting world. The concept of shields in a game world where melee combat is as commonplace as ranged combat would make for an interesting environment to start developing a game system around. However, I think they would probably ruin the game when they decided to artificially balance it and make it a themepark.
You need a LOT more than that to end up with an interesting MMO.
Originally posted by Caliburn101 Warhammer stole most of it's best ideas from the novels of Michael Moorcock [...]
First, Warhammer is a success ? I am not aware of that.
Second, so you admit that Warhammer is an original IP ? Because the point of an original IP is not that it didnt "stole" anything from other material, the point is that the developers can design the game however they see fit. With a non-original IP, you always have these rightholders that you (a) have to pay, making the game more expensive and (b) have to consult about the game - basically if they dont like something, you have to throw it out.
For example, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic for example originally planned a lesbian romance. Unfortunately Lucas Arts objected.
Originally posted by Adamantine Originally posted by Caliburn101 Warhammer stole most of it's best ideas from the novels of Michael Moorcock [...]
I didn't talk about the success of Warhammer, why are you bringing it up in relation to my actual post?
To address what you have said however, yes, Warhammer is a success. It was a success years before the first MMO ever came out. An entire company is based around it as it's core business.
Note that I am not talking about Warhammer Online. Warhammer is much older than that, and the MMO was a facet of the thing - not the biggest part by any measure. Multiple tabletop RPGs, tabletop model wargaming, RTS fames, FPS games, console games, I could go on.
As to you second point - that is your interpretation of what 'original IP' means? I would argue that it is rather removed from what Warhammer actually is - a 'derivative IP' which the owners have financial control of. Star Wars was a 'licenced IP'. There are significant differences.
On the posts about DUNE as an MMO.
I didn't mention it myself - it would make a good MMO, but every time someone touches these great stories they either make a mess of it blowing a massive budget, or themetically do it justice but with too small a budget.
I suggested (or rather, wishlisted) this on my 'What is Titan' thread months ago.
The word Titan is of course directly relevant to the history of the Dune saga, and only a compnay the size of Blizzard would have a hope of doing the series justice.
The nice thing is, when folding space from world to world (aka instance to instance) a loading screen with the right animations would actually be most appropriate for what the character would actually experience.
Guilds are a word used for the first time (I stand to be corrected on this of course) to my knowledge in a sci-fi story, and so would seemlessly translate into the MMO iteration.
With so many interesting factions to interract with - the Houses, Imperial, Guild, Tielaxu, Ixians, Bengezerit; classes which could be based on roles - i.e. Noble, Soldier, Spice Smuggler, Mercenary, Guild Operative, Facedancer, Fremen etc. etc. and a whole bevy of book and RTS additions which could be thrown in, it would make a great romp of an MMO.
However, the IP would likley be expensive and the execution would have to be AAA.
Fingers crossed that one day, if not in the secret annex of Blizzard right now, this is going to happen.
Actually shields would make for a fun game - requiring that people fighting nobility switch from ranged to melee, or if playing someone with access to restricted weapons - the launcher which can penetrate them.
The best IP is the one with the best implementation...
I personally am looking forward to see some orriginal implementations...
Like an Alternative version of the earth where factons of earlier days survived... Nazis, Greek, Romans, Native americans, Incas, Celts, Mongols, medeival Japan, Australian independent criminals, combined with some alien species ... where certain people (players) have turned immortals (highlander) which can use certain powers(Star wars) and travel to distant planets (stargate) ... where on earth there are certain safezones, players can join one of the historical factions based on their good/evil lawfull/chaotic beleiver/nonbeleiver coefficients... The earth outside the safezones (just a few player hubs/towns) is one big battleground.
PvE happens offworld, some offworld areas are strictly PvE, in some you can choose to join NPC factions that you joijn in PvP, and other offworld zones have no laws and they are FFA...
There are a lot of open world dungeons on the earth, and there are also NPC factions that figth the player factions too, they battle for resources and posesion of territories. If a faction has been defeated, they need to start all over from a hidden cave, and try to get their resources and stuff back...
Players can change faction based on their ingame actions.
There also is a political system in the save hubs where the PC factions can try to influence the free towns, they have no authority there, but they do have influence, except in the main hub...
The main player hub would function like a kind of 2nd world, combined with some features from the Utherverse... Which would make the game accessible for addults only...
Players would have the option to create their own content (offworlds) with an advanced version of the foundry(neverwinter) and sell access to it trough the game..
There would be an ectuall economical system in place......
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Originally posted by Adamantine First, Warhammer is a success ? I am not aware of that. Second, so you admit that Warhammer is an original IP ? Because the point of an original IP is not that it didnt "stole" anything from other material, the point is that the developers can design the game however they see fit. With a non-original IP, you always have these rightholders that you (a) have to pay, making the game more expensive and (b) have to consult about the game - basically if they dont like something, you have to throw it out. For example, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic for example originally planned a lesbian romance. Unfortunately Lucas Arts objected.
I'd say you're using a pretty unusual definition of "original IP" here then, but if that's what you think was meant originally then there is no real argument between us since that's what I actually wrote in my post that you replied to. An IP that is owned by the company making the MMO works best in my opinion.
Semantics-wise, personally when I hear someone say "original IP" I think either, an IP created specifically for a project, or a non-derivative IP. Warcraft is neither of those in regards to WoW. It was created for their Warcraft RTS games. And frankly, its original design was so derivative of Warhammer's fantasy setting, from art to units to backstory (what little there was), that I'm still amazed Games Workshop never even tried to sue them for Warcraft or Starcraft. I guess they just weren't interested in the computer games market back then.
And yes, Warhammer is a huge success in its niche, miniatures wargaming. It's been one of the biggest, if not the biggest, things in wargaming since the mid 80's.
Originally posted by Dihoru Actually Cali the evolution of warhammer went something like this: Space Hulk -> Warhammer 40.000 -> Warhammer Fantasy, the fantasy setting of the Warhammer 40.000 metaverse is relatively new, middle to late 1990s early 2000s if I am not woefully mistaken.
I believe their fantasy setting was the first one they created for Warhammer, and wikipedia backs me up. Though, honestly, I'm not sure if 40k wasn't first, I didn't know anything about miniatures until around the time both were already around. Either way it definitely predates the 90s.
Nobody would do Magic justice in an MMO. It's just too grand in scope.
Also I'm surprised to see Harry Potter mentioned so much in these sorts of threads. I'm a big fan of the books, but really. Put that world next to some of the true fantasy greats and you have what really amounts to mediocre young adult fiction that never really lives fully up to its own potential. The world building is simply non existant compared to many other IPs.
Ice and Fire would have been cool, but it's too late now with the garbage browser MMO on its way. LoTR and D&D both COULD have been cool, but they botched that.
Truly, I think the best chance lies within a new IP constructed from the ground up to be made into an MMO. Have solid writers on board.
That said.. a Malazan RPG, MMO or otherwise, would be sick. If someone could pull it off.
Originally posted by LogicLester Originally posted by Dihoru Actually Cali the evolution of warhammer went something like this: Space Hulk -> Warhammer 40.000 -> Warhammer Fantasy, the fantasy setting of the Warhammer 40.000 metaverse is relatively new, middle to late 1990s early 2000s if I am not woefully mistaken.
Correct. The first edition of Warhammer (fantasy) came out in 1983. I recall its release, I had just started playing D&D maybe a year earlier. Didn't play Warhammer, though - I was only interested in RPGs at that time, not wargames.
WH40K first appeared in 1987, and was based on the 2nd edition of Warhammer fantasy.
Space Hulk was a boardgame from 1989, and certainly not the origin of the WH40K franchise.
Yes that sounds about right - I'm old enough to have been walking into Game Worskhop outlets since they started. However, I may be wrong, but I think the Fantasy iteration came before the Space one.
They were a lot more fun then - stocking everything made by everyone practically. It is only later they had an IP lockdown and started running roughshod over IP owners like Moorcock by stealing as much of their ideas as could be legally got away with.
Originally posted by Adamantine Originally posted by red_cruiser Dune would make an interesting world. The concept of shields in a game world where melee combat is as commonplace as ranged combat would make for an interesting environment to start developing a game system around. However, I think they would probably ruin the game when they decided to artificially balance it and make it a themepark.
Look at the screwed up Dune movie. It takes a lot than an interesting world to make a good game, or a good movie.