This is how I would of created Elder Scrolls Online

ZedTheRock · April 2013

First I would of borrowed Skyrim's engine "Creation Engine" and continued to utilyze the Havok's Behavior Toolset for Character Animation But I would of worked it more to give a bit better animations while in 3rd Person view.

Next I would have placed the setting in the future after the events of Skyrim, that way Dragons could be in the game and players could go on select missions to become Dragonborn.

Next I would remove any type of Forced PvP from the game and instead relied on the deep lore of the myriad NPC factions and Guilds to give rise to player PvP. Guilds/Factions/Orders such as Companions, Imperial Legion, Stormcloaks, Fighters, Mages, Thieves, Blades, Mythic Dawn, Dark Brotherhood, Bards and maybe some of the lesser known factions. List here: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Factions

Then I would have implemented an enmity system whereas certain factions were hostile to others. This would allow world PvP to thrive but those who wished not to partake could of stayed clear of certain houses and factions.

Next I would have opened up the entire area of Tamriel and allowed the building of houses in and around the villages and cities that already exist. ALl housing would of been in the open world. I would of then designed the game to be completely seemless except for the various dungeons and other points of interest that you can wander into.

I would then turn my attention to the class system, I would have kept the class names listed here: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Classes I would also allowed the use of creating a custom class by picking and choosing the various skill lines but kept the perk system that was in Skyrim.

I would not implement an Auction House but would implement a mailing system. Any trades would be done through face to face contact and the setting up of bazaars in the various cities.

I would not have a global chat system, instead the chat system would only cross player guilds, NPC guilds, and shout/say distance.

Speaking of crafting, that would be handled by the class system, whereby you could actually create a crafting class which did nothing but craft all day and not have to kill a thing. You would have to rely on adventurers to gather though, or you could sacrifice specialization points to pick up combat skills to gather them yourself. I would also add in a Carpentry Skill which would be the only way to build houses, or you could buy already placed housing plots in the game world. The gathering skills would be universal, anyone could gather anything if they ran across it.

Next I would allow the formation of 40 man raids and give Raiders the opportunity to tackle various Bosses that were placed in the world or in non-instanced dungeons.

I would also implement some sort of political system that allowed players to become Jarls or other heads of houses through various means.

Now onto Combat, I would allow the use of 1st and 3rd person combat and kept the reticule based combat system but I would not allow the use of a soft locking system that the current TESO game utilyzes.

As for questing, I would keep the TES style of quests. Complete with a working HUD or Compass like the single player games. Quest givers would be like any normal NPC, meaning you would have to talk to NPC's to find out if they had a quest to give you. None of this hand holding Yellow outline stuff TESO is going to use. My TESO would continue with the tradition of all TES games to allow the player to wander off the path and discover their own way and both questing and exploration would be just as optimal.

Finally I would make it so certain NPC's sold items, some of them being magic most not but each NPC had their own inventory like the TES games. I would also allow the killing, Stealing and placing baskets over NPC's head but doing so would make the player a PK (PvP enabled). SO if I saw you stealing from an NPC I could kill you without penalty and even be rewarded for killing the "Sneak Thief". This would allow the Players to police the world and to limit the potential for wholescale slaughter. For those NPC's that were murdered they could be resurrected by other players or often times some other NPC would take over their shop or offer that NPC's quest. Something like the local chieftain or jarl could assign someone to take over their shop after a certain period of inactivity.

Thats about all I can think of for now.

Nitth · April 2013

Originally posted by ZedTheRock
First I would of borrowed Skyrim's engine "Creation Engine" and continued to utilyze the Havok's Behavior Toolset for Character Animation But I would of worked it more to give a bit better animations while in 3rd Person view.

Next I would of placed the setting in the future after the events of Skyrim, that way Dragons could be in the game and players could go on select missions to become Dragonborn.

Next I would remove any type of Forced PvP from the game and instead relied on the deep lore of the myriad NPC factions and Guilds to give rise to player PvP. Guilds/Factions/Orders such as Companions, Imperial Legion, Stormcloaks, Fighters, Mages, Thieves, Blades, Mythic Dawn, Dark Brotherhood, Bards and maybe some of the lesser known factions. List here: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Factions

Then I would of implemented an enmity system whereas certain factions were hostile to others. This would allow world PvP to thrive but those who wished not to partake could of stayed clear of certain houses and factions.

Next I would of opened up the entire area of Tamriel and allowed the building of houses in and around the villages and cities that already exist. ALl housing would of been in the open world. I would of then designed the game to be completely seemless except for the various dungeons and other points of interest that you can wander into.

I would then turn my attention to the class system, I would of kept the class names listed here: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Classes I would also allowed the use of creating a custom class by picking and choosing the various skill lines but kept the perk system that was in Skyrim.

I would not implement an Auction House but would implement a mailing system. Any trades would be done through face to face contact and the setting up of bazaars in the various cities.

I would not have a global chat system, instead the chat system would only cross player guilds, NPC guilds, and shot/say distance.

Speaking of crafting, that would be handled by the class system, whereby you could actually create a crafting class which did nothing but craft all day and not have to kill a thing. You would have to rely on adventurers to gather though, or you could sacrifice specialization points to pick up combat skills to gather them yourself. I would also added in a Carpentry Skill which would be the only way to build houses, or you could buy already placed housing plots in the game world. The gathering skills would be universal, anyone could gather anything if they ran across it.

Next I would allow the formation of 40 man raids and give Raiders the opportunity to tackle various Bosses that were placed in the world or in non-instanced dungeons.

I would also implement some sort of political system that allowed players to become Jarls or other heads of houses through various means.

Now onto Combat, I would allow the use of 1st and 3rd person combat and kept the reticule based combat system but I would not allow the use of a soft locking system that the current TESO game utilyzes.

As for questing, I would keep the TES style of quests. Complete with a working HUD or Compass like the single player games. Quest givers would be like any normal NPC, meaning you would have to talk to NPC's to find out if they had a quest to give you. None of this hand holding Yellow outline stuff TESO is going to use. My TESO would continue with the tradition of all TES games to allow the player to wander off the path and discover their own way and both questing and exploration would be just as optimal.

Finally I would make it so certain NPC's sold items, some of them being magic most not but each NPC had their own inventory like the TES games. I would also allow the killing, Stealing and placing baskets over NPC's head but doing so would make the player a PK (PvP enabled). SO if I saw you stealing from an NPC I could kill you without penalty and even be rewarded for killing the "Sneak Thief". This would allow the Players to police the world and to limit the potential for wholescale slaughter. For those NPC's that were murdered they could be resurrected by other players or often times some other NPC would take over their shop or offer that NPC's quest. Something like the local chieftain or jarl could assign someone to take over their shop after a certain period of inactivity.

Thats about all I can think of for now.

Like all posts of this nature that would never work because your working with a 'top down' approach.

Your not taking into consideration systems that need to be developed before hand, Behind the scenes that are the reason some of the ZOS design decisions have taken place such as opting for a non Gamebryo engine.

Purutzil · April 2013

Then you would of realized how insanely difficult your work would be to be pulled off in an MMO setting and no where remotely near as easy and would of stopped production and worked on the TESO that exists today due to limitations of both the average consumer's computer and network limitations among other things.

ZedTheRock · April 2013

Originally posted by Nitth

Originally posted by ZedTheRock
First I would of borrowed Skyrim's engine "Creation Engine" and continued to utilyze the Havok's Behavior Toolset for Character Animation But I would of worked it more to give a bit better animations while in 3rd Person view.

Next I would of placed the setting in the future after the events of Skyrim, that way Dragons could be in the game and players could go on select missions to become Dragonborn.

Next I would remove any type of Forced PvP from the game and instead relied on the deep lore of the myriad NPC factions and Guilds to give rise to player PvP. Guilds/Factions/Orders such as Companions, Imperial Legion, Stormcloaks, Fighters, Mages, Thieves, Blades, Mythic Dawn, Dark Brotherhood, Bards and maybe some of the lesser known factions. List here: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Factions

Then I would of implemented an enmity system whereas certain factions were hostile to others. This would allow world PvP to thrive but those who wished not to partake could of stayed clear of certain houses and factions.

Next I would of opened up the entire area of Tamriel and allowed the building of houses in and around the villages and cities that already exist. ALl housing would of been in the open world. I would of then designed the game to be completely seemless except for the various dungeons and other points of interest that you can wander into.

I would then turn my attention to the class system, I would of kept the class names listed here: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Classes I would also allowed the use of creating a custom class by picking and choosing the various skill lines but kept the perk system that was in Skyrim.

I would not implement an Auction House but would implement a mailing system. Any trades would be done through face to face contact and the setting up of bazaars in the various cities.

I would not have a global chat system, instead the chat system would only cross player guilds, NPC guilds, and shot/say distance.

Speaking of crafting, that would be handled by the class system, whereby you could actually create a crafting class which did nothing but craft all day and not have to kill a thing. You would have to rely on adventurers to gather though, or you could sacrifice specialization points to pick up combat skills to gather them yourself. I would also added in a Carpentry Skill which would be the only way to build houses, or you could buy already placed housing plots in the game world. The gathering skills would be universal, anyone could gather anything if they ran across it.

Next I would allow the formation of 40 man raids and give Raiders the opportunity to tackle various Bosses that were placed in the world or in non-instanced dungeons.

I would also implement some sort of political system that allowed players to become Jarls or other heads of houses through various means.

Now onto Combat, I would allow the use of 1st and 3rd person combat and kept the reticule based combat system but I would not allow the use of a soft locking system that the current TESO game utilyzes.

As for questing, I would keep the TES style of quests. Complete with a working HUD or Compass like the single player games. Quest givers would be like any normal NPC, meaning you would have to talk to NPC's to find out if they had a quest to give you. None of this hand holding Yellow outline stuff TESO is going to use. My TESO would continue with the tradition of all TES games to allow the player to wander off the path and discover their own way and both questing and exploration would be just as optimal.

Finally I would make it so certain NPC's sold items, some of them being magic most not but each NPC had their own inventory like the TES games. I would also allow the killing, Stealing and placing baskets over NPC's head but doing so would make the player a PK (PvP enabled). SO if I saw you stealing from an NPC I could kill you without penalty and even be rewarded for killing the "Sneak Thief". This would allow the Players to police the world and to limit the potential for wholescale slaughter. For those NPC's that were murdered they could be resurrected by other players or often times some other NPC would take over their shop or offer that NPC's quest. Something like the local chieftain or jarl could assign someone to take over their shop after a certain period of inactivity.

Thats about all I can think of for now.

Like all posts of this nature that would never work because your working with a 'top down' approach.

Your not taking into consideration systems that need to be developed before hand, Behind the scenes that are the reason some of the ZOS design decisions have taken place such as opting for a non Gamebryo engine.

You'd prefer my version over Zenimax's though. So would every true TES fan.

Velocinox · April 2013

Would have.

Would of is nonsense.

Nitth · April 2013

Originally posted by ZedTheRock
You'd prefer my version over Zenimax's though. So would every true TES fan.

Make no mistake, I dont like ZOS's idea, But your idea would be problematic in its own right.

Next I would allow the formation of 40 man raids and give Raiders the opportunity to tackle various Bosses that were placed in the world or in non-instanced dungeons.

Firstly, Raiding in a TES game opens a whole can of worms i would rather not see in a tes game.

Secondly, If your going to have 'raiding' you didn't outline in your combat section that it would follow a trinity or non trinity model of threat management. (that decision should of come before the raiding idea imo).

Lets say for argument sake that you implied a trinity system, Thats gona force my Sword and board character into a "tanking" archetype" in the long run isnt it? that in itself is less TES because i cant create a truly 'free form' character if it has to fill a role type.

redcapp · April 2013

Gotta say, 'would of' is a pretty annoying pet peeve of mine. It is would have.

Caliburn101 · April 2013

Originally posted by muffins89
Originally posted by ZedTheRock
Originally posted by Velocinox
Would have.

Would of is nonsense.

???

grammer nazi.

I see what you did there - slick

WhiteLantern · April 2013

Originally posted by redcapp
Gotta say, 'would of' is a pretty annoying pet peeve of mine. It is would have.

Yes, mine too. Too many people think the contracted "would've" is "would of". This will assuredly be the downfall of the western civilization.

Boldyn · April 2013

Make a kickstarter campaign, that seems to work for delusional people that have nothing more than an idea for a game

Ramanadjinn · April 2013

Originally posted by ZedTheRock

Like all posts of this nature that would never work because your working with a 'top down' approach.

Your not taking into consideration systems that need to be developed before hand, Behind the scenes that are the reason some of the ZOS design decisions have taken place such as opting for a non Gamebryo engine.

You'd prefer my version over Zenimax's though. So would every true TES fan.

Theres just no way to know if your version would work. The ideas you are giving are very high level ideas and many of them sound like the sorts of ideas we saw developers attempt to use in the newly post-ultima era. The problem is, many of the problems we have with TESO and games these days in general are because these thigns devs are doing that we don't like are solutions to the problems your game idea doesn't really address (which is not to say you couldn't address them).

There is a better way to make a game. There always will be. But MMOs and the problems inherent in creating them are so much more complex than can be solved in a single post or even thread on this forum.

Po_gg · April 2013

Nice one, I've had pretty much the same (or similar) thoughts when first heard about the upcoming Elder Scrolls title which will be Online. (and then we saw where did they turn with the development... :I )

On the other hand Nitth is right, I too raised an eyebrow reading the 40man raid stuff, both implementation-wise and story-wise, it doesn't sound much Elder Scrolls-ish.... My version of ESO would be a smaller scale, co-op online Tamriel, not even an mmo (but that's just me I guess)

Another eyebrow-raising moment was the carpentry, since in AoC the Architect is a similar one, and while it's fun to build cities, it's usually the least needed profession there. Just think about it, diving deep into a profession which is mandatory for housing, but only for that. After the first few months, when everyone has settled, carpenters will be out of job (mostly)... In any crafting profession there has to be a steady demand for the stuff you're making, except of course if you craft only for yourself, food, pots, etc.. Or you plan to give everyone multiple houses? Because that would be fun (or it would cause a real-estate based economy collapse not to mention the demand it'd put onto the servers)

ZedTheRock · April 2013

Originally posted by WhiteLantern
Originally posted by redcapp
Gotta say, 'would of' is a pretty annoying pet peeve of mine. It is would have.

Yes, mine too. Too many people think the contracted "would've" is "would of". This will assuredly be the downfall of the western civilization.

For you grammatically superior people I fixed the "would of's"

I would never use the term Nazi to describe anything but elements of the German Workers Party that systematically tried to eliminate the existance of any person not of Aryan descent. Thats a personal pet peeve of mine!

Grammer means nothing but historical fact means everything and tieing someones misuse of the english language to the murder of over 6 million people is about as idiotic as one can be. Just some perspective for you "perfectionists" to ponder on!

Doogiehowser · April 2013

So copy everything from Skyrim and make a MMO with exception of 40 man raid? easier said than done though. Big difference between writing something down on paper and actually doing it.

ZedTheRock · April 2013

Originally posted by Po_gg
Nice one, I've had pretty much the same (or similar) thoughts when first heard about the upcoming Elder Scrolls title which will be Online. (and then we saw where did they turn with the development... :I )

On the other hand Nitth is right, I too raised an eyebrow reading the 40man raid stuff, both implementation-wise and story-wise, it doesn't sound much Elder Scrolls-ish.... My version of ESO would be a smaller scale, co-op online Tamriel, not even an mmo (but that's just me I guess)

Another eyebrow-raising moment was the carpentry, since in AoC the Architect is a similar one, and while it's fun to build cities, it's usually the least needed profession there. Just think about it, diving deep into a profession which is mandatory for housing, but only for that. After the first few months, when everyone has settled, carpenters will be out of job (mostly)... In any crafting profession there has to be a steady demand for the stuff you're making, except of course if you craft only for yourself, food, pots, etc.. Or you plan to give everyone multiple houses? Because that would be fun (or it would cause a real-estate based economy collapse not to mention the demand it'd put onto the servers)

I can understand the apprehension of Raids, but seeing as their is no precedence to restrict them, I think it fits within the flavor of a TES game since you would need to assemble an army to take on the likes of the Daedric Princes or other enemies of Nirn. Plus it fits in with the overall story of Armies in war like the http://www.imperial-library.info/content/battle-red-mountain

Carpentry can easily be explained with the Hearthfire DLC.

Po_gg · April 2013

Originally posted by Doogiehowser
So copy everything from Skyrim and make a MMO with exception of 40 man raid? easier said than done though. Big difference between writing something down on paper and actually doing it.

Never said it's easy only that under Elder Scrolls and Online I thought right away a fully combined Tamriel from the games, an engine which on-par (at least) with Skyrim, the same features as the regular ES games, a nice story to back it up, and on top of that the option to enjoy all of this with fellow ES fans --> hence the name Elder Scrolls Online

Maybe it'd be close to impossible to program it. But one can dream, I guess...

ZedTheRock · April 2013

Originally posted by Po_gg
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
So copy everything from Skyrim and make a MMO with exception of 40 man raid? easier said than done though. Big difference between writing something down on paper and actually doing it.

Never said it's easy only that under Elder Scrolls and Online I thought right away a fully combined Tamriel from the games, an engine which on-par (at least) with Skyrim, the same features as the regular ES games, a nice story to back it up, and on top of that the option to enjoy all of this with fellow ES fans --> hence the name Elder Scrolls Online

Maybe it'd be close to impossible to program it. But one can dream, I guess...

Exactly.

I do not know anything about programming or anything like that, this was a hypothetical post and I know full well that game could never get made but if it was possible, thats the TESO game I want to play. Not this monstrosity being foisted on the TES community.

WhiteLantern · April 2013

Originally posted by ZedTheRock
Originally posted by WhiteLantern
Originally posted by redcapp
Gotta say, 'would of' is a pretty annoying pet peeve of mine. It is would have.

Yes, mine too. Too many people think the contracted "would've" is "would of". This will assuredly be the downfall of the western civilization.

For you grammatically superior people I fixed the "would of's"

I would never use the term Nazi to describe anything but elements of the German Workers Party that systematically tried to eliminate the existance of any person not of Aryan descent. Thats a personal pet peeve of mine!

Grammer means nothing but historical fact means everything and tieing someones misuse of the english language to the murder of over 6 million people is about as idiotic as one can be. Just some perspective for you "perfectionists" to ponder on!

Ummmm, a grip. You might need one. No one called you a grammar nazi.

But, it's all fun and games until someone gets their feelings hurt. Then the warnings come, bans if it's Tuesday. Then more feelings are hurt, more threads get hijacked. A vicious cycle, indeed.

NL-Rikkert · April 2013

Or my idea:

Cancel TESO completely and make TES6 where you can play as and enjoy the dwemer and their history :P

Now that would make a happy fanbase! (right?)

Vonatar · April 2013

Originally posted by NL-Rikkert
Or my idea:

Cancel TESO completely and make TES6 where you can play as and enjoy the dwemer and their history :P

Now that would make a happy fanbase! (right?)

+1

CerebralM · April 2013

and I would never play this game because I could just play skyrim

jmcdermottuk · April 2013

I'm going to avoid the could of and could have debate, I think that's been covered. What I would like to add is my take on these ideas in the OP and where I disagree and would go a different way.

So to start off, the engine couldn't be the Skyrim engine for the simple reason that you'd be trying to use a single player game engine for an MMO and the priorities are totally different. If you use a single player game engine and you have a lot of people on screen using abilities and effects going off you end up with a slideshow. That means you need an engine designed for an MMO from the ground up.

The setting I'm not too worried about but it doesn't have to be too closely tied to Skyrim in my opinion.

PvP is a tough one. Personally I've always thought that PvP in MMORPG's has been handled poorly. If it can't be done well then I'd rather see it left out. As far as TES goes, a more FFA approach would seem logical, but I wouldn't want to see a MO or DF approach or you end up with a gankfest ghost town of an MMO. You'd need a system like EVE uses to curtail the griefers. If it can be included in a logical and well designed way that can't be easily abused, then fine. If not I'd just leave it out.

Classes would need to be templates only. If I start playing as a warrior type I should be able to completely change my playstyle to play as a mage if I choose. No restrictions.

I don't think having an AH is a big problem.

Lots of people go on about certain mechanics having negative effects on community. Some say an AH does this, for others it's LFD tools. For me, Global Chat is one tool which fosters community. It allows experienced players the chance to offer advice to new players. I'm not in favour of a "no global chat" policy.

I don't see the need for a crafting class because I wouldn't have class restrictions anyway. Anyone can learn to make a table in my version of TES:O.

40 man raids. No thanks. Bosses? Damn right! 40 man raids? No way! Bring as many as you want, no restrictions. Does this trivialise content or does it make it more accessible? If you have a group of very powerfull friends then you can try to kill that dragon with just 10 of you. If you lack the experience and skill to do that, bring an army. This is one of my pet hates with current MMO's and something I think is taking the "Massive" out of the genre.

The rest of it looks fine.

Caliburn101 · April 2013

Originally posted by jmcdermottuk
40 man raids. No thanks. Bosses? Damn right! 40 man raids? No way! Bring as many as you want, no restrictions. Does this trivialise content or does it make it more accessible? If you have a group of very powerfull friends then you can try to kill that dragon with just 10 of you. If you lack the experience and skill to do that, bring an army. This is one of my pet hates with current MMO's and something I think is taking the "Massive" out of the genre.

The rest of it looks fine.

I hear you on this, however, let me add something to consider.

'Bring whoever you want' boss fights or let's call them 'raid-scale challenges' have one primary problem when it comes to programming them, this being of course, scalability.

One of the things I admired about GW2 was their reasonable attempt the do this with their DE's and world bosses.

But - they by no means entirely cracked it, usually falling back on rather bland and unsatisfying 'more HPs', 'more trash mobs', 'more aoe' management tools.

Additionally, their scaling system clearly had a certain tolerance ceiling, above which scaling didn't work and fights became easy 'dps-for-the-win' fights.

Whilst the elements mentioned have their place in a scalable raid-scale challenge, there must also be other variations to make it truly work.

Putting aside the gating, leetism and other nagative aspects of raiding, there is something very satisfying in taking down a techically challenging boss and having to really work at it to do so. Most people who have raided get a kick out of being in a team which has to work well together to succeed, and where total failure is a real threat.

Technical challenge is what scalability (so far) has sacrificed, and it was, in my opinion, the worst thing they could have sacrificed.

I understand this has been because of the difficulties inherent to more freefrom raid-scale challenges, but that doesn't mean it is excusable indeffinately.

When we see a scalable challenge system in an MMO that retains these entertaining technical and skill challenges, and scales these, then we will have what we have been waiting for, and not before time too!

ShakyMo · April 2013

You do realise your design would limit the game to like 100 players per server. Or make it even more phased / Instanced

jmcdermottuk · April 2013

Originally posted by ShakyMo
You do realise your design would limit the game to like 100 players per server. Or make it even more phased / Instanced

Care to explain why? EQ played the way I describe with no instancing and thousands of players per server.

amalmer1 · April 2013

I stopped reading when I got to th line where you said you would let the players become the dragonborn. 1 million dragonborns running around just seems silly to me.

Howdy, Stranger!

This is how I would of created Elder Scrolls Online

Comments

Howdy, Stranger!

Quick Links

This is how I would of created Elder Scrolls Online

Comments