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Diminishing Returns Information

Deerhunter71Deerhunter71 Richmond, VAPosts: 527Member

100% gains at 0 Prowess
50% gains at 7.1k Prowess
10% gains at 500k and greater

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Comments

  • BadaboomBadaboom Moose Jaw, SKPosts: 2,380Member
    This is a good thing, although I think the levels can be tweaked.  Diminishing returns are good for the longevity of the game.  Give you something to work towards while at the same time, lessening the impact to the newer player trying to compete.  The lack of this, or a skill cap, was one of DF1's greatest failings.
  • ilivesilives Fort Dodge, KSPosts: 418Member
    Originally posted by Deerhunter71

    100% gains at 0 Prowess
    50% gains at 7.1k Prowess
    10% gains at 500k and greater

    So much for being PvP viable in a short amount of time.

    Where have all the "good" shills gone?

  • Deerhunter71Deerhunter71 Richmond, VAPosts: 527Member
    Are the diminishing returns only on killing mobs or if you are at 50% and you complete a feat that would have given 1,000 prowess you only get 500 for it?
  • luvbooxluvboox Smalltown, IDPosts: 87Member
    Originally posted by ilives
    Originally posted by Deerhunter71

    100% gains at 0 Prowess
    50% gains at 7.1k Prowess
    10% gains at 500k and greater

    So much for being PvP viable in a short amount of time.

    You can very easily get PvP viable in one class in a few weeks. If you are looking to max out all classes and stats....yeah, that's going to take a while, as it should.

    I am curious, though, whether the 50% gain is at 7.1k, or 71k. Seems like I was playing with a friend that had a lot more prowess and these numbers don't seem to match up to what we were seeing. Maybe they have changed since then, though.

    Edit: Where did you get these numbers, Deerhunter? I don't doubt you, I am just curious.

  • Deerhunter71Deerhunter71 Richmond, VAPosts: 527Member
    Originally posted by luvboox
    Originally posted by ilives
    Originally posted by Deerhunter71

    100% gains at 0 Prowess
    50% gains at 7.1k Prowess
    10% gains at 500k and greater

    So much for being PvP viable in a short amount of time.

    You can very easily get PvP viable in one class in a few weeks. If you are looking to max out all classes and stats....yeah, that's going to take a while, as it should.

    I am curious, though, whether the 50% gain is at 7.1k, or 71k. Seems like I was playing with a friend that had a lot more prowess and these numbers don't seem to match up to what we were seeing. Maybe they have changed since then, though.

    Edit: Where did you get these numbers, Deerhunter? I don't doubt you, I am just curious.

    They were on the DF forums where a lot of people are saying the diminishing returns need to bechanged.

  • HotjazzHotjazz BalsfjordPosts: 742Member
    Originally posted by Deerhunter71

    They were on the DF forums where a lot of people are saying the diminishing returns need to bechanged.

    Then it will be changed later. AV are not the fastest guys, but they do listen to the players.

     

    Anyway, it`s not a problem for a while.

  • JupstoJupsto englandPosts: 2,087Member
    Originally posted by ilives
    Originally posted by Deerhunter71

    100% gains at 0 Prowess
    50% gains at 7.1k Prowess
    10% gains at 500k and greater

    So much for being PvP viable in a short amount of time.

    I dont think you understand what you quoted mate. ;p this means the opposite.

    My blog: image

  • Deerhunter71Deerhunter71 Richmond, VAPosts: 527Member
    Originally posted by Hotjazz
    Originally posted by Deerhunter71

    They were on the DF forums where a lot of people are saying the diminishing returns need to bechanged.

    Then it will be changed later. AV are not the fastest guys, but they do listen to the players.

     

    Anyway, it`s not a problem for a while.

    Yup - they care so much they kept spinning debug mode to pull the wool over a lot of people's eyes and even had Mr. White post the same thing....

  • EpicentEpicent Pierre Part, LAPosts: 647Member
    I'm downloading this game now. Could someone explain this in detail please. Im not sure I understand what you guys mean completely.
  • ilivesilives Fort Dodge, KSPosts: 418Member
    Originally posted by Consensus
    Originally posted by ilives
    Originally posted by Deerhunter71

    100% gains at 0 Prowess
    50% gains at 7.1k Prowess
    10% gains at 500k and greater

    So much for being PvP viable in a short amount of time.

    I dont think you understand what you quoted mate. ;p this means the opposite.

    You are confused, the 50% is kicking in at a lower level now and in turn making prowess harder to get.  Also the more you train the more prowess is needed per train, thus compounding the issue.

    Where have all the "good" shills gone?

  • ilivesilives Fort Dodge, KSPosts: 418Member
    Originally posted by Epicent
    I'm downloading this game now. Could someone explain this in detail please. Im not sure I understand what you guys mean completely.

    Think of Prowess as XP that you spend to raise skills and attributes.  With the current system you get half the Prowess for doing the same thing after reaching a total of 7500 Prowess.   7500 is a long way off from making your player viable.  GRIND!!!

    Where have all the "good" shills gone?

  • HotjazzHotjazz BalsfjordPosts: 742Member
    Originally posted by ilives 
    GRIND!!!

    The horrid grind killed DF1 after a few months, so they better fix that fast.

  • Deerhunter71Deerhunter71 Richmond, VAPosts: 527Member
    Originally posted by ilives
    Originally posted by Epicent
    I'm downloading this game now. Could someone explain this in detail please. Im not sure I understand what you guys mean completely.

    Think of Prowess as XP that you spend to raise skills and attributes.  With the current system you get half the Prowess for doing the same thing after reaching a total of 7500 Prowess.   7500 is a long way off from making your player viable.  GRIND!!!

    Yup - they just did not learn from the first game and the grind.....

  • ToxiaToxia Lake Charles, LAPosts: 1,319Member Uncommon

    Can someone explain how this system stops macroing/botting? Wasn't that the purpose of it?

    Kill X amount of mobs, get 500 XP

    Kill X amount of mobs, get 500 prowess.

    XP is automaticlly updated, prowess you have to spend. So...Is there a limit to how much prowess you get?

    Like, once you get 1000 prowess, you wont get anymore till you spend it?

    The Deep Web is sca-ry.

  • ilivesilives Fort Dodge, KSPosts: 418Member
    Originally posted by Hotjazz
    Originally posted by ilives 
    GRIND!!!

    The horrid grind killed DF1 after a few months, so they better fix that fast.

     Diminishing returns + scaling training costs = Fail

     

     

    Grind on two fronts!

    Where have all the "good" shills gone?

  • BadaboomBadaboom Moose Jaw, SKPosts: 2,380Member
    Originally posted by ilives
    Originally posted by Hotjazz
    Originally posted by ilives 
    GRIND!!!

    The horrid grind killed DF1 after a few months, so they better fix that fast.

     Diminishing returns + scaling training costs = Fail

     

     

    Grind on two fronts!

    I think this is awesome.  Looks like AV is looking long term. I foresee the diminishing return levels getting adjusted later so that newer people won't have as much of a grind.  Vets won't like it but it is for the long term good.

  • GreymoorGreymoor ManchesterPosts: 801Member

    I wouldn't take random forum posters information as gold Deerhunter, better to wait until it's fully confirmed how it works.

    There's also diminishing returns for doing the same activity over and over, perhapes the guy who made these calculations didn't factor in the reduced prowess gain for doing the same activity constantly.

  • PigEyePigEye campbellsville, KYPosts: 78Member

    Think of it as leveling up classes in lvl based games. You most surely can be pvp viable in a few weeks or less on one class, just playing that class. Now, if you want to craft some gears + gank with said one class, grinding both at the same time, you will be a little behind the curve at the start.

     

    The system is no where near the pvp viable grind that was DFO1

    PigEye McNasty
    DFOUW NA

  • ilivesilives Fort Dodge, KSPosts: 418Member
    Originally posted by Greymoor

    I wouldn't take random forum posters information as gold Deerhunter, better to wait until it's fully confirmed how it works.

     

    What's there to confirm, its simple math.  You do seem a bit confused on how the diminishing returns work, but I'll chalk that up to you not playing the game.

    Where have all the "good" shills gone?

  • NaowutNaowut MusselkanaalPosts: 647Member Uncommon

    You get can 1 class maxed faster than you can get max level in any game. 

    The deminishing returns kick in hard once you want to lvl other classes which is completely optional but is fun for the people who want to do it. Theyre long term goals and have absolutely no impact on how strong your character is.

  • ilivesilives Fort Dodge, KSPosts: 418Member
    Originally posted by Naowut

    You get can 1 class maxed faster than you can get max level in any game. 

    The deminishing returns kick in hard once you want to lvl other classes which is completely optional but is fun for the people who want to do it. Theyre long term goals and have absolutely no impact on how strong your character is.

    Clearly it doesn't if its already 50% at only 7500 Prowess. Do you have any idea how much Prowess it takes to max ONE  role?

    Where have all the "good" shills gone?

  • RollieJoeRollieJoe Raleigh, NCPosts: 436Member
    To actually MAX a single role and associated stats you are looking at a minimum of 100k prowess and that's probably on the very low end (likely closer to 200k or more).  Just as grindy as DF1, just in a slightly different way. 
  • ubermutubermut dallas, TXPosts: 188Member
    Originally posted by Toxia

    Can someone explain how this system stops macroing/botting? Wasn't that the purpose of it?

    Kill X amount of mobs, get 500 XP

    Kill X amount of mobs, get 500 prowess.

    XP is automaticlly updated, prowess you have to spend. So...Is there a limit to how much prowess you get?

    Like, once you get 1000 prowess, you wont get anymore till you spend it?

    the problem before was people sat in relative safetey and macro'd casting spells over and over to raise them, or macro'd hitting their friends.  key word is macroing.  these macros were simple and anyone could make them, this was not botting.  the macro just swung your sword or hit the rest buttong. 

     

    You can't macro killing mobs, they run all over the place and kick your ass if you aren't paying attention.  I'm sure there is a way to bot them, but not to where the entire population can do it with a simple script and thus feel like they need to do it to keep up.

  • GreymoorGreymoor ManchesterPosts: 801Member
    Originally posted by RollieJoe
    To actually MAX a single role and associated stats you are looking at a minimum of 100k prowess and that's probably on the very low end (likely closer to 200k or more).  Just as grindy as DF1, just in a slightly different way. 

    BS the free 50k prowess in beta was almost enough to max a role and some basics. You're looking at 70k to absolutely max a role.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,638Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Deerhunter71
    Originally posted by ilives
    Originally posted by Epicent
    I'm downloading this game now. Could someone explain this in detail please. Im not sure I understand what you guys mean completely.

    Think of Prowess as XP that you spend to raise skills and attributes.  With the current system you get half the Prowess for doing the same thing after reaching a total of 7500 Prowess.   7500 is a long way off from making your player viable.  GRIND!!!

    Yup - they just did not learn from the first game and the grind.....

    Increasing the xp needed to train at the higher levels while lowering the xp gain at those levels is just such a horrible design. I have a feeling AV is going to be completely surprised by the exponential rise in complaints in a month or two.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

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