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Originally posted by Galadourn ESO is doomed; was so right from the first announcement back in May 2003, when everyone shot it down in dismay..then they went radio silent, people thought they would rework some things...and now we get the recent leaks. There's nothing to expect fom ESO at this point, except perhaps going F2P.
It'll be like most recent MMOs I think, it'll release to fanfare and cheers, etc., sell a million copies or more and then slow down. Well, if they're lucky anyway. But it won't be some WoW killer everyone keeps waiting for. Hopefully for Zenimax though, it does something way different or way better than WoW or GW2 currently does or there are already alternatives to ESO that you've already paid for and have installed.
Originally posted by DavisFlight Originally posted by Distopia Maybe you can explain this then because I've seen it said so many times without much explanation. What makes it a generic WOW clone? The few quests we saw? I ask because what is explained in my recent Gameinformer sounds nothing like WOW.
Linear quest based leveling, heavily phased and instanced world, easy mode collect 5 whatever quests, the whole design stinks of WoW.
Now if they had actually gone and made DAoC 2, they might have at least had a good MMO. Now they have a half assed singleplayer game and a half assed MMO.
The only thing I'm really interested in this game for is exploration and the questing. So I can't count that aspect as a negative. Phasing is the downside of offering meaningful choices in a quest system, that's something I'm willing to deal with for the benefit it brings.
Every questing system is going to have lame fetch quests used as filler, hell, TES is full of them they have a whole guild that revolves around it; this doesn't make a game like WOW IMO... I've read a lot of previews thus far detailing some very interesting questing methods used in TESO.
As for the game being like WOW, what you're really trying to say is it's like an RPG.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by keithianI continue to be suspicious of the intent of the leaked video and equally suspicious of threads like this which for all I know is the person who released it.
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
My advice is to wait for the NDA to be dropped and open beta. Before anyone makes a decision on supporting the game this is definitely one that you should wait for beta impressions/reviews and or personal experience.
The problem with that is that closed beta is where they do the core game features typically, Open is more stress and play testing and lately little more than advanced advertising.
So if players want something changed they had better speak up. Otherwise it is like waiting until a house is done being built and then commenting, "Hmm, the Kitchen would be better over here, and could we make the 2 car garage a 3 car?". Doable yes, but a lot more work and you have built in resistance to the changes.
Originally posted by ShakyMo Read the rock paper shotgun and eurogamer previews. It plays exactly like wow. You cant just wander off and find stuff to do like tes (or indeed daoc), it features led by the nose questing.
Thta's not really the imprerssion I've been getting from previews. IE that the questing is like WOW's, if anything it sounds more like AOC's/TSW's, a mix of typical point a to point b quests as well as random quests you find on your travels (a corpse sets off a chain of events for you to track down). These are more exploration based they have no icons to lead you to objectives ( a good example is detailed in the gameinformer I got yesterday) . Now if you feel questing in a game like TSW or AOC feels like questing does in WOW, we're of completely different minds.
Originally posted by SavageHorizon Originally posted by keithian I continue to be suspicious of the intent of the leaked video and equally suspicious of threads like this which for all I know is the person who released it.
Let me get this straight, what you're saying is that because something was the case with TOR there's no possible way things could be different here?
Originally posted by archeageking Serioudly right now im royally pissed, i saw the leaked footage on the gameplay and im really RELALLY REALLY pissed off at zenimax. I dont care about the graphics, but by god i want to smash my keyboard right now. Its soooo generic, im just so freaking pissed off right now. I blew so many hours into skyrim, and now they are going to release this crap. Im fuming.
You watched a video featuring an idiot auto attacking through mudcrabs and wolves. He wasn't casting spells or using skills. He was auto attacking with his staff.
It's good you don't care about the graphics, because he had them set to custom and we only saw three sliders, while the scroll bar in the graphics UI shown in the video (3:49) indicates many many more options, so we have no way of knowing if what we saw is indicitave of what the game is capable of in its current state.
This dude is trying to troll people. He's showing the game in the worst possible light. Zenimax will turn around and do the opposite with their offical released stuff as development advances. The actual game will be somewhere in between.
er, that depends on what you mean. For the most part that's true.
Unfortunatley to my tastes it isn't morrowind or skyrim online. However that is exactly how you find things to do. You wander. That's how I discovered the one quest I chose not to do.
There's this tidbit:
“There’s things that occur out in the world,” Sage pointed out, noting that our demo was sadly lacking in them. “Like, you’ll see somebody who, let’s say they’re being mugged, right? And you walk out, and you have a decision. Do you want to save that person? And I don’t mean there’s a decision like, ‘Oh, I’m gonna go in and hit a choice [button].’ I mean you get to look at the scenario and say, ‘Hm, seems like a good time to get money. I’ll wait until they’re finished, and then I’ll [take what's left].’ These vignettes kind of pop up throughout the world, and there’s different things you can do with them.”
Then unfortunatley this:
Questing Quest Of Quest Questingness - As soon as I began my demo session, I did as any self-respecting Elder Scrolls fan would: abandoned all pretenses of following the main story and struck out on my own, ready to turn the world upside-down and shake it until every last crumb of adventure fell out. I pointed my Orc in one direction, and off I went.
I gave up in 20 minutes.
The sandy, sun-scorched starting area felt largely lifeless when quests weren’t leading the way, so I eventually relented and bounced between golden, ultra-obvious circles on my minimap – ultimately gaining passage to a new area once I’d wrapped up the main plot of the first. I was hoping the more expansive locales around Daggerfall would offer greater variety, but alas. No such luck. For my troubles, I got semi-compelling, fully voice-acted tales of treachery, woe, and the undead, but I felt like I was methodically working my way through a theme park – not paving my own path through a sandbox.
There weren’t any crazy AI shenanigans or moments of utterly unexpected player interaction. For better or worse, everything functioned as expected. I felt like I was playing a competent – and in some places, even fairly impressive – MMO, but The Elder Scrolls’ trademark spark was dim, sometimes invisible against a backdrop of pre-scripted heroics and canned conversations.
I just get the feeling that Zenimax is in for a rude awkening. They keep saying they are making an Elder Scrolls "MMO" but probably don't realize that that's not going to cut it.
As much as I enjoyed DAoC PvE, it wasn't perfect by any means and it would feel very, very awkward and "retro" to any of us who continued playing other MMOs for these past 12 years.
And I don't know which side you played but in Albion, you were heavily steered towards grinding in certain areas at certain times. Maybe the steering wasn't so much done by quests, although there were some that did just that particularly in the lower levels, but your open-air and dungeon depth grinding areas were very much level-limitted.
Dungeoneering mostly consisted of: a) form a group, b) go into the dungeon to an area that was appropriate for your group, c) hope that all such areas weren't already taken D) wait for other groups to leave so you could claim the area, e) grind.
And the last few levels before 50? That was a painful grind of mostly Ent-like trees or goblins in a heavily camped open-air area where people would often wait 3 hours or more to get into an open spot in the group so you could grind for the next 4 hours.
Is that really what you're saying you want TES PvE to be like?
Both styles can be overdone. Too much need to grind sucks and so does WOW-like quest hubs with breadcrumb quest that moves you to the next hub.
I would also like to see something truly new...like a system without levels where you honestly and truly can go anywhere at any time.
But as long as we have levels for both the players and the mobs, thinking you can go anywhere anythime is just a fantasy.
Originally posted by cronius77 whats even more funny is the fact that wow is still by far the most played game out there for pay to play games yet you people expect game companies to totally redesign a system that obviously works for most normal gamers
That's it, give them an excuse to keep churning out the same game because it's profitable. Seriously, there's proof that A.) none of those copies have ever become as large as WoW and B.) a game can still be successful without mimicking WoW.
So essentially, it's laziness. Good to know.
But apparently people who aren't happy with this aren't "normal". lol
Originally posted by Eir_S Originally posted by cronius77 whats even more funny is the fact that wow is still by far the most played game out there for pay to play games yet you people expect game companies to totally redesign a system that obviously works for most normal gamers
and you can counter that with all the crying about making guild wars 2 so much "different" and look at the tranwreck of a system they have to replace the holy trinity that everyone bitches about on a daily bases. Why reinvent the wheel over and over again for the sake of being out of the cool kids crowd? You can fancy up quests however you want but its still a quest , EQ had them DAOC had them shadowbane even had them in a full loot pvp game. Making a marker isnt whats boring , its the crappy uninteresting lore and worlds hence games like rift flopping. 10 million people seem to enjoy questing in wow, jsut because other games copy wow but lazy like as you yourself says doesnt mean this game will flop like people are arguing about here because it has a quest maker and moves you around the world somewhat. Lore and story telling make memorable gaming, wow did it better than anyone else and still does and thats why they continue to have such success. All these games that are so different end up flopping far worse than themeparks , EVE is about the only exception and thats tuned to a sci fi crowd and a niche market. Wait until the gameplay NDA is lifted and then be the judge , they are not going to rewrite their entire game because of some crying on mmorpg.com
Originally posted by ShakyMo I would rather have daoc / ac / vanilla EQ style pve of just wander off and kill stuff, maybe stumble upon a non instanced dungeon, perhaps encounter rock hard mobs where I need to communicate with people and firm a group etc... Than get led along a path from quest hub to quest hub. We've had 9 years of that shit in just about every mmo produced. Now maybe there's some new novel way of doing pve, but if they reverted to the "old ways" it would feel fresh after all these years. Also would be more tes like imo, morrowind played pretty much like that and its still my favourite sprpg.
I don't know if I feel the same way, I was playing a certain "old school MMO in it's original format" again recently, and while it felt really nostalgic, that form of skilling up felt really dated to me. While it was nice to see such a wide open world again in an MMO, it felt very empty for some reason. It truly felt as though I had no option but to just grind.
I'm glad that The Repopulation wants to include questing with it's old school approach as well as Arche age. The problem in games like AOC..etc.. for me have been that it's only really good for co-op play. Which is fine with playing with my wife, which I intend to do in TESO. SHe will have zero interest in games like AA or The Repop. I doubt I would either if the only route of gaining skills was grinding mob after mob after mob.
Originally posted by ShakyMo People who like wow are already playing wow. Make a game exactly like wow, people burn through it in a couple of months and then return to wow as it has all their friends in it and 9 years worth of content. Your game basicly becomes a mini wow expansion until the next wow update cones along.
The real key is keeping people after the intial fun wears off (questing, story, etc..) this is where so many games have failed, the questing and general game-play wasn't the real issue, it was the lack of everything else. They're banking on PVP right now for that. WHo knows how that will turn out at this point, but those who have tried it in the past failed, AOC totally refocused efforts toward PVE after release, same with TOR, same with many many others as they always failed to get PVP right. Will Zenimax? I don't know. WHich is why I am not considering it for a long term game at present.
Originally posted by cronius77 Originally posted by Eir_S Originally posted by cronius77 whats even more funny is the fact that wow is still by far the most played game out there for pay to play games yet you people expect game companies to totally redesign a system that obviously works for most normal gamers
I don't think ANet chose a different set of systems to be "cool" with either GW1 or GW2... and if you didn't notice, their system seems to have worked fairly well overall since they outsold pretty much every other recent MMO outside of WoW (and possibly outsold MoP). According to you, they shouldn't have. But they did. Because strange as it may seem, there were a LOT of people who wanted something different.
People complain, I agree, but "Everyone" doesn't complain about a new system. Not even everyone on MMORPG.com. Though I admit, it does seem like it sometimes.
The games that are "different" and "end up flopping" are usually niche titles like PvP only. It's only natural that they're not going to pull in as much revenue.
I just don't think bashing people who try something different is very productive.
Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by ShakyMo People who like wow are already playing wow. Make a game exactly like wow, people burn through it in a couple of months and then return to wow as it has all their friends in it and 9 years worth of content. Your game basicly becomes a mini wow expansion until the next wow update cones along.
Funny how much people on this site rally against "End Game" - I myself have in the past, until you realize the pattern in the industry and why WoW stays strong and people keep coming and going back.
Unless of course you enjoy the sandbox niche, in which PvP is your end game just about every time.
Themepark with PvP end game has thus far never really worked - DAOC was not nearly as successful and popular as people here seem to think it was.
Originally posted by BadSpock Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by ShakyMo People who like wow are already playing wow. Make a game exactly like wow, people burn through it in a couple of months and then return to wow as it has all their friends in it and 9 years worth of content. Your game basicly becomes a mini wow expansion until the next wow update cones along.
End-game is important, launching with it is even more important. If you have something in place to truly keep players around for a bit, it gives you time to move forward with the project. The last several years have been filled with games that have failed to do this. They either A: have nothing or B: have something that doesn't work. In either case it forces a team into panic mode, this halts further development, as a result the players leave, then the project fails.
DAoC's popularity and success can be viewed in all kinds of relative ways: are we looking at it using WOW as the measure? Are we including the whole world or just the west?
DaoC had 250k active subscribers in the summer of 2001. In those days, for the western world, that was not peanuts. Only EQ had more and the vast majority of DAoC players came from EQ. UO and AC were in decline and god only knows what portion of Lineage's population was in the West.
Compared to WOW's success, all others pale by comparison. WOW was also the "gateway" MMO that attracted hordes of new players. All MMO subs post-WOW have to be looked at in view of the humongous MMO player base that exists now compared to those early days.
DAoC had targetted 50K subs as their measure of success. They got 5 times that. Not too shabby.
Originally posted by Icewhite Originally posted by Boldyn Originally posted by archeageking I blew so many hours into skyrim
It is typical for gamers to adopt a sense of ownership for the games that they play.
Note: "typical", not "rational".
"This is MY no-lifer game of whatever..."