I'm going to keep this short in sweet but this was the biggest reason why I never played GW2.
The lack of the "Holy trinity" in a MMO is just not the type of MMO I want to play.
So while I would find it a little wierd that it took you this long for it to hit you, I can complelety understand why you left.
This. As much as people rail agianst "Holy Trinity" in PvE MMO space, it's really the only model that works.
Fascinating. Couldn't disagree more. The most fun I had in trinity-based MMOs was always when the trinity was broken, either intentionally through special fight mechanics, or unintentionally through bad pulls or people messing up. Those are the moments when you actually need to play, when you need to think, strategize on the spot, utilize the full arsenal of your characters abilities, interact with your party. When the trinity is in place, everyone knows exactly what to do at all times, and it repeats with every fight. That's not particularly interesting for a long time.
Name the game that works with. I'll bet youin some form a trinity exists in which defined roles are established, though it might be the more 'old school' trinity then the 'Heal/Tank/DPS' one we generalize into. GW2 has issues with its gameplay since theres very little strategy at all really applied that can be done. That 'strategy' ends up being "you go this, you go this" leading to a Support(heal)/CC(Tank)/DPS choice. Its basically the trinity being at play once again though in a watered down and much more rough manor... which is a big reason why dungeons in GW2 can be quite a mess.
To have planning and strategy involved, particularly with a team, it requires a system in place like the trinity, otherwise its got to either be dumbed down. You might not realize it, but it exists. Your still doing the same roles and sure you can change it up and do special things at times, but that can be applied to games following the trinity like RIft as I might need to CC as a dps in some fights or a healer might need to tank and so on.
See, posts like this one are what happens when people get brainwashed with trinitiy over the years. They got all backwards.
In trinity you DONT need planning, strategy, particularly with a team because your planning and strategy are predetermined for you. You might like this over simplified and completely dumbed down version of combat, but theres quite a lot of people that dont need the game to determine everything for you in advance.
In games where trinity is absent you need actual teamwork, cooperation and, yes. skill. No, you dont need roles in GW2, or, to put it mildly, the less skill you have, the more role you need. But i know you couldnt really figure that out on lvl30.
The dungeons in GW2 are very easy, but people like you that cant detach themselves from "roles" and trinity end up like you - in a mess.
I'm going to keep this short in sweet but this was the biggest reason why I never played GW2.
The lack of the "Holy trinity" in a MMO is just not the type of MMO I want to play.
So while I would find it a little wierd that it took you this long for it to hit you, I can complelety understand why you left.
I havent felt needed since I left EQ in 2005.....WHile so many people are thrilled with this new "we dont need the trinity" anymore, alot of us have felt left out and unwanted as a result.
I'm going to keep this short in sweet but this was the biggest reason why I never played GW2.
The lack of the "Holy trinity" in a MMO is just not the type of MMO I want to play.
So while I would find it a little wierd that it took you this long for it to hit you, I can complelety understand why you left.
I havent felt needed since I left EQ in 2005.....WHile so many people are thrilled with this new "we dont need the trinity" anymore, alot of us have felt left out and unwanted as a result.
Heck it's 2013 what have you done with your life in the last 8 years ...sounds like you need a big HUG
So in 90 minutes you went from feeling the game was the greatest game out there, to deciding to not play anymore?
It's the famous hitting the wall syndrome, sometimes it creeps up on you slowly and sometimes It hits you hard.
^ Right here. You can enjoy a game for so long then suddenly you just come to the realization "I really don't want to play it anymore." Its not exclusive to like Gw2, its something that can happen with virtually every game. I could play Sonic 2 non stop when I was little then all of a sudden I could look at it and go 'meh' and I stopped playing it. Doesn't nessarily mean the game is bad, it just got old to me and offered me nothing new or interesting I felt like.
Of course in more extreme cases, its possible the wall might be hit harder then others where you might not want to play the game again just coming to the realization it wasn't that great and the fun was drained out, the wool coming out from infront of your eyes and you realize its just not as good as you have felt it was before and it just loses its flavor.
Every time I see a post about GW2 not requiring any skill because it has no trinity I laugh and put them on my 'never run Fractals with this person' list lol.
You are not nuts, you just realized (suddenly, VERY suddenly) that this game, after all, was not for you.
I played it for 3 months, and wrog bored of it. Classes are empty, everyone plays the same, non-existant / broken pve, zerg pvp.
I think IT IS a good game, full of great ideas... But still, i don't like how they put them to work, simply.
(And quick note, koreans will never let you play a 2 handed weapon that is not a sword. Don't ask me why. They are nuts)
er...wut? I'm playing Aion and we have polearms (axe with a long damn handle) which kick arse.... Course their use is limited to Gladiators but whatever....
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
He was living in dreamworld thinking more than actually the reality is . He's actually a smart kid and made a wise decision but he's unsure ofhimself and now you try to troll him to ruin he's self trust. Shame on you troll
funny how you would imply that someone has "self trust" when they are asking for the reassurance of others. And then you call me a troll when the advice I gave them, was to judge their own actions instead of asking for other people to decide. This just doesn't make sense unless we're in "opposite-land" where trolls give good advice and nice people tell everyone that they shouldn't think for themselves.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
Well just wanted to note, the greataxe isn't the 'quintesessential warrior weapon'.
This is just a peeve noting games in general. The greataxe has very seldom been the go-to symbol of the traditional fighter class, more so it's been the sword because of the extra symbolism and meaning of chivalry.
The axe is a weapon that's more commonly attributed to the more brute styled classes. Same case as the hammer. Hence in classic D&D the common trope of the Barbarian using a greataxe while the Fighter uses a sword.
This is also a mindset that's coupled with the way in which a weapon would get used. The greatsword was again a common warrior weapon as it was dual purpose sword and pike. Likewise the longsword and bastard sword were common because they were 'hand and a half' blades, something a fighter could situationally alternate the way they weild the weapon.
The concept of them was the flexibility they were provided. A fighter wasn't a simpleton, they were a strategic combatant.
the 'heavy weapons' like the club, hammer, and greataxe were all commonly more straightforward (pike weapons like the poleaxe is not specifically an axe, pike weapons fall back in the strategic category). These are things that serve a much more controlled purpose and are not as flexible in their use. The are the weapons you pick up when your goal and methodology is singular.
I don't wanna say it's more simple, but it's a symbolically more brutish approach that's much more directly about overpowering an enemy. Hence the relation to the more crass, less classy barbarian style characters.
So referring to an axe as a 'quintessential warrior weapon' while not explicitly false, is a misnomer and a very finite interpretation that ignores general history of gaming, media, and actual history.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Well just wanted to note, the greataxe isn't the 'quintesessential warrior weapon'.
This is just a peeve noting games in general. The greataxe has very seldom been the go-to symbol of the traditional fighter class, more so it's been the sword because of the extra symbolism and meaning of chivalry.
The axe is a weapon that's more commonly attributed to the more brute styled classes. Same case as the hammer. Hence in classic D&D the common trope of the Barbarian using a greataxe while the Fighter uses a sword.
This is also a mindset that's coupled with the way in which a weapon would get used. The greatsword was again a common warrior weapon as it was dual purpose sword and pike. Likewise the longsword and bastard sword were common because they were 'hand and a half' blades, something a fighter could situationally alternate the way they weild the weapon.
The concept of them was the flexibility they were provided. A fighter wasn't a simpleton, they were a strategic combatant.
the 'heavy weapons' like the club, hammer, and greataxe were all commonly more straightforward (pike weapons like the poleaxe is not specifically an axe, pike weapons fall back in the strategic category). These are things that serve a much more controlled purpose and are not as flexible in their use. The are the weapons you pick up when your goal and methodology is singular.
I don't wanna say it's more simple, but it's a symbolically more brutish approach that's much more directly about overpowering an enemy. Hence the relation to the more crass, less classy barbarian style characters.
So referring to an axe as a 'quintessential warrior weapon' while not explicitly false, is a misnomer and a very finite interpretation that ignores general history of gaming, media, and actual history.
Nah.... I would have to disagree and agree with the OP. You really don't have any idea what you are talking about.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
I found that in single player games, once I learn all its core elements I turn from loving the game to hating it INSTANTLY. Never could figure out why.
But with mmos I could last much much longer because of the variations of community, uniqueness of dungeons and every time is different because of the group you are with. Logging on, finding that well oiled group and the flow that comes along with it.
With GW2, it felt like a single player game with others around you. After I leveled a Necromancer to level 30 I hated the game INSTANTLY, just like a single player game. I felt like nothing. Big deal, jump in a dynamic event cast a few weak abilities see the boss fall and it was over.........Just how much of this could you take ?.....Same crap over and over....It's a single player game !
Well just wanted to note, the greataxe isn't the 'quintesessential warrior weapon'.
This is just a peeve noting games in general. The greataxe has very seldom been the go-to symbol of the traditional fighter class, more so it's been the sword because of the extra symbolism and meaning of chivalry.
So referring to an axe as a 'quintessential warrior weapon' while not explicitly false, is a misnomer and a very finite interpretation that ignores general history of gaming, media, and actual history.
You're mostly right, but it wasn't because of symbolism / chivalry, though I can see where one might draw that conclusion.
Swords are just a much more well balanced weapon. There's a reason the sword + shield combo was so common for so long, and it had nothing to do w/ symbolism. It's a VERY tough combo to beat in a melee fight 1 on 1. Heck, even the greatsword (claymore) was more balanced than bringing around a battle axe. Axes in general are very offensive weapons, with little-no defensive capabilities. They're main strength came from penetrating armor / shields, except they also had the annoying habit of getting wedged into both, in addition to being extremely heavy.
In short axes are one of the slowest and most 1 dimensional weapons a fighter could use. It's main strength (armor / shield penetration) was often outshined by blunt weapons, which were not only easier to wield, but also recovered from strikes much faster. That's the reason why you don't see many true warriors running around with an axe. They almost always run with at least some type of sword, because of the versatility.
The link above for example puts into perspective what others might want to see in games, siege weapons etc.
But you are right, if you dont have immersion no point in it for you.
interesting stuff. Immersion is a state of mind, so it should be possible to realign your thinking on great axes based on this - who wants to be a warrior that is using a great Axe as if it is a superior weapon
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
the sentence under your post count should be "i am more than the sum of my parts" .
Makes more sense and doesn't make you look bad.
Wow! Thats good! I mean REALLY good! Thats way better than what I had come up with. I think you should get your name associated with that or somebody is going to come along and say that they said it first!
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
the sentence under your post count should be "i am more than the sum of my parts" .
Makes more sense and doesn't make you look bad.
Wow! Thats good! I mean REALLY good! Thats way better than what I had come up with. I think you should get your name associated with that or somebody is going to come along and say that they said it first!
Nope, that quote is wide known, but you have entertained me indeed.
the sentence under your post count should be "i am more than the sum of my parts" .
Makes more sense and doesn't make you look bad.
Wow! Thats good! I mean REALLY good! Thats way better than what I had come up with. I think you should get your name associated with that or somebody is going to come along and say that they said it first!
Nope, that quote is wide known, but you have entertained me indeed.
OH... I thought it was "I am more than some of my parts".
You're mostly right, but it wasn't because of symbolism / chivalry, though I can see where one might draw that conclusion.
Swords are just a much more well balanced weapon. There's a reason the sword + shield combo was so common for so long, and it had nothing to do w/ symbolism. It's a VERY tough combo to beat in a melee fight 1 on 1. Heck, even the greatsword (claymore) was more balanced than bringing around a battle axe. Axes in general are very offensive weapons, with little-no defensive capabilities. They're main strength came from penetrating armor / shields, except they also had the annoying habit of getting wedged into both, in addition to being extremely heavy.
In short axes are one of the slowest and most 1 dimensional weapons a fighter could use. It's main strength (armor / shield penetration) was often outshined by blunt weapons, which were not only easier to wield, but also recovered from strikes much faster. That's the reason why you don't see many true warriors running around with an axe. They almost always run with at least some type of sword, because of the versatility.
Methinks you skipped the part where I mentioned that.
"This is also a mindset that's coupled with the way in which a weapon would get used. The greatsword was again a common warrior weapon as it was dual purpose sword and pike. Likewise the longsword and bastard sword were common because they were 'hand and a half' blades, something a fighter could situationally alternate the way they weild the weapon."
Symbolism wasn't the only aspect I mentioned, it was meerely the first.
Also stevebombsquad, please don't make inane remarks.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
I think the best way I've heard it expressed is, although GW2 is a wonderful game, it lacks power. For me too, it has comprised a big part of my gaming life over the last several months... Once my Warrior hit 80... I was in the mid 40s of my elementalist when i began to feel the same disconnect. i logged off my elementalist to log into my warrorior to help some guild mates when I realized... i don't feel very strong. i don't feel powerful at all.
If there is 1 thing GW2 failed at, its giving the player a sense of power and purpose. Sure we have our personal storyline that creates this illusion that WE are the center of this MMO but when it comes to the important parts their strongly choreographed. When I'm a lvl 80, I don't feel like a lvl 80. I don't feel epic. Sure the game has it's moments but I don't feel strong, or powerful, and as a lvl 80 WArrior I should.
I think thats part of what you're feeling without the ability to wield the weapon that for you is an iconic display of Warrior prowess. When you noticed it's absence, you saw the disconnect your character has from the world. and thus, you had from your character...
I don't know, but my Hardcore GW2 days came to an end as I began to feel disconnected. but for me, it was how littel difference there was in being lvl 80 and being lvl 40.
You hit the nail on the head in my book. The game has pointless progression as you are always at the same power level with current and past content. There is no feeling of empowerment that is so critical to character progression. At level 80, you can go back to earlier areas and still get your ass handed to you and there really is nothing epic or even special about having invested all that time into reaching the pinnacle of your character's abilities. It's one thing for a game to offer challenge, it's another when everything is challenging and there is nothing there to give you at least the sense of being a powerful hero or even as an exceptional character within the story line.
I like versatility within a defined role, but I am not a fan of homogenized classes so while they may appear different, they don't really feel different. For example, I'm a plate wearing, shield toting Guardian, but I still have to face combat as if I were a cloth wearing Elementalist, having to avoid physical attacks and using hit and run tactics or die horribly. I'm sorry, but why have plate mail in the game at all if you can't stand toe to toe with your adversary any more than the ranged specialists. I also can't stand the healing mechanic in this game. I love to play healing classes, because they can really turn the tide of battle, but I never got that feeling with even the most healing friendly classes in this game. The game play seemed to be centered more on timely rezzes and I just don't find that fun.
I think the best way I've heard it expressed is, although GW2 is a wonderful game, it lacks power. For me too, it has comprised a big part of my gaming life over the last several months... Once my Warrior hit 80... I was in the mid 40s of my elementalist when i began to feel the same disconnect. i logged off my elementalist to log into my warrorior to help some guild mates when I realized... i don't feel very strong. i don't feel powerful at all.
**snip**
You hit the nail on the head in my book. The game has pointless progression as you are always at the same power level with current and past content. There is no feeling of empowerment that is so critical to character progression. At level 80, you can go back to earlier areas and still get your ass handed to you and there really is nothing epic or even special about having invested all that time into reaching the pinnacle of your character's abilities. It's one thing for a game to offer challenge, it's another when everything is challenging and there is nothing there to give you at least the sense of being a powerful hero or even as an exceptional character within the story line.
I like versatility within a defined role, but I am not a fan of homogenized classes so while they may appear different, they don't really feel different. For example, I'm a plate wearing, shield toting Guardian, but I still have to face combat as if I were a cloth wearing Elementalist, having to avoid physical attacks and using hit and run tactics or die horribly. I'm sorry, but why have plate mail in the game at all if you can't stand toe to toe with your adversary any more than the ranged specialists. I also can't stand the healing mechanic in this game. I love to play healing classes, because they can really turn the tide of battle, but I never got that feeling with even the most healing friendly classes in this game. The game play seemed to be centered more on timely rezzes and I just don't find that fun.
Honestly, this is a problem of perspective.
The reason why you don't feel powerful, is because relatively speaking most other games go out of their way to tell you 'you're powerful' without you actually doing anything.
The sad thing is, as long as gamers need this imagined ego-injection to enjoy games, it'll be impossible for really deep games to pick up popularity. They'll remain a niche as long as players need games to make them feel competent. If you look at some of the better games that have come out recently, some of them (like dark souls) actually go out of their way to make you feel weak. It's the challenge of overcoming that which makes those games good.
I agree with you OP, that is part of the reason I no longer have any real want to play GW2. I started to feel like a carbon copy of the next class. I figured it out fairly quickly though because I like to dable in every class to see which one I belong to more. The more classes I tried, the more I got annoyed because I realized that they had no role.
I think the best way I've heard it expressed is, although GW2 is a wonderful game, it lacks power. For me too, it has comprised a big part of my gaming life over the last several months... Once my Warrior hit 80... I was in the mid 40s of my elementalist when i began to feel the same disconnect. i logged off my elementalist to log into my warrorior to help some guild mates when I realized... i don't feel very strong. i don't feel powerful at all.
**snip**
You hit the nail on the head in my book. The game has pointless progression as you are always at the same power level with current and past content. There is no feeling of empowerment that is so critical to character progression. At level 80, you can go back to earlier areas and still get your ass handed to you and there really is nothing epic or even special about having invested all that time into reaching the pinnacle of your character's abilities. It's one thing for a game to offer challenge, it's another when everything is challenging and there is nothing there to give you at least the sense of being a powerful hero or even as an exceptional character within the story line.
I like versatility within a defined role, but I am not a fan of homogenized classes so while they may appear different, they don't really feel different. For example, I'm a plate wearing, shield toting Guardian, but I still have to face combat as if I were a cloth wearing Elementalist, having to avoid physical attacks and using hit and run tactics or die horribly. I'm sorry, but why have plate mail in the game at all if you can't stand toe to toe with your adversary any more than the ranged specialists. I also can't stand the healing mechanic in this game. I love to play healing classes, because they can really turn the tide of battle, but I never got that feeling with even the most healing friendly classes in this game. The game play seemed to be centered more on timely rezzes and I just don't find that fun.
Honestly, this is a problem of perspective.
The reason why you don't feel powerful, is because relatively speaking most other games go out of their way to tell you 'you're powerful' without you actually doing anything.
The sad thing is, as long as gamers need this imagined ego-injection to enjoy games, it'll be impossible for really deep games to pick up popularity. They'll remain a niche as long as players need games to make them feel competent. If you look at some of the better games that have come out recently, some of them (like dark souls) actually go out of their way to make you feel weak. It's the challenge of overcoming that which makes those games good.
How arrogant of you to assume it's about ego. Frankly, it's fun and interesting to be something that I am not in real life, thank you very much.
I think the best way I've heard it expressed is, although GW2 is a wonderful game, it lacks power. For me too, it has comprised a big part of my gaming life over the last several months... Once my Warrior hit 80... I was in the mid 40s of my elementalist when i began to feel the same disconnect. i logged off my elementalist to log into my warrorior to help some guild mates when I realized... i don't feel very strong. i don't feel powerful at all.
**snip**
You hit the nail on the head in my book. The game has pointless progression as you are always at the same power level with current and past content. There is no feeling of empowerment that is so critical to character progression. At level 80, you can go back to earlier areas and still get your ass handed to you and there really is nothing epic or even special about having invested all that time into reaching the pinnacle of your character's abilities. It's one thing for a game to offer challenge, it's another when everything is challenging and there is nothing there to give you at least the sense of being a powerful hero or even as an exceptional character within the story line.
I like versatility within a defined role, but I am not a fan of homogenized classes so while they may appear different, they don't really feel different. For example, I'm a plate wearing, shield toting Guardian, but I still have to face combat as if I were a cloth wearing Elementalist, having to avoid physical attacks and using hit and run tactics or die horribly. I'm sorry, but why have plate mail in the game at all if you can't stand toe to toe with your adversary any more than the ranged specialists. I also can't stand the healing mechanic in this game. I love to play healing classes, because they can really turn the tide of battle, but I never got that feeling with even the most healing friendly classes in this game. The game play seemed to be centered more on timely rezzes and I just don't find that fun.
Honestly, this is a problem of perspective.
The reason why you don't feel powerful, is because relatively speaking most other games go out of their way to tell you 'you're powerful' without you actually doing anything.
The sad thing is, as long as gamers need this imagined ego-injection to enjoy games, it'll be impossible for really deep games to pick up popularity. They'll remain a niche as long as players need games to make them feel competent. If you look at some of the better games that have come out recently, some of them (like dark souls) actually go out of their way to make you feel weak. It's the challenge of overcoming that which makes those games good.
How arrogant of you to assume it's about ego. Frankly, it's fun and interesting to be something that I am not in real life, thank you very much.
Chill out w/ the insults, and look at how games have been designed over the past decade. Count how many achievements games give nowadays which are meaningless. Pay attention to how many games praise the user for every little thing.
It is about ego, and I'm hardly the first person to notice this. This isn't a new phenomina, it's just much more apparent now that it's been going on for quite a long time. Just think about it.
For example, God of War. Hugely successful game. But it rewards basic button mashing with a feeling of being a god. Nothing of the game really challenges you. It can be fun, but it rewards you for doing almost nothing. If you were to take away that feeling of badassery, and replace it with an actual challenge, how many people do you think would still enjoy it? After all people like to feel good about themselves, and that's what most of these games are designed to do.
Combine the fact that people like to feel good about themselves, with the fact that people (in general) will always lean towards the easiest solution to any given situation, and it's no wonder that games like God of War are so popular. From this you can also see the problems with trying to introduce more challenging games in such a climate.
Try to push a game that favors skilled player and challenges over a game where you can push a button and feel like a god, and you see the situation we're talking about right now. You can choose to be offended by that, but it's the reality of the gaming environment atm.
GW2 is basically the MMO version of this. I'm not saying this is a game for everyone (and never have), but it is a game that sacrifices some of that feeling of being 'powerful' in favor of a system which allows more skilled players to shine on their own merits, instead of the game's.
Comments
See, posts like this one are what happens when people get brainwashed with trinitiy over the years. They got all backwards.
In trinity you DONT need planning, strategy, particularly with a team because your planning and strategy are predetermined for you. You might like this over simplified and completely dumbed down version of combat, but theres quite a lot of people that dont need the game to determine everything for you in advance.
In games where trinity is absent you need actual teamwork, cooperation and, yes. skill. No, you dont need roles in GW2, or, to put it mildly, the less skill you have, the more role you need. But i know you couldnt really figure that out on lvl30.
The dungeons in GW2 are very easy, but people like you that cant detach themselves from "roles" and trinity end up like you - in a mess.
I havent felt needed since I left EQ in 2005.....WHile so many people are thrilled with this new "we dont need the trinity" anymore, alot of us have felt left out and unwanted as a result.
Heck it's 2013 what have you done with your life in the last 8 years ...sounds like you need a big HUG
You are not nuts, you just realized (suddenly, VERY suddenly) that this game, after all, was not for you.
I played it for 3 months, and wrog bored of it. Classes are empty, everyone plays the same, non-existant / broken pve, zerg pvp.
I think IT IS a good game, full of great ideas... But still, i don't like how they put them to work, simply.
(And quick note, koreans will never let you play a 2 handed weapon that is not a sword. Don't ask me why. They are nuts)
^ Right here. You can enjoy a game for so long then suddenly you just come to the realization "I really don't want to play it anymore." Its not exclusive to like Gw2, its something that can happen with virtually every game. I could play Sonic 2 non stop when I was little then all of a sudden I could look at it and go 'meh' and I stopped playing it. Doesn't nessarily mean the game is bad, it just got old to me and offered me nothing new or interesting I felt like.
Of course in more extreme cases, its possible the wall might be hit harder then others where you might not want to play the game again just coming to the realization it wasn't that great and the fun was drained out, the wool coming out from infront of your eyes and you realize its just not as good as you have felt it was before and it just loses its flavor.
er...wut? I'm playing Aion and we have polearms (axe with a long damn handle) which kick arse.... Course their use is limited to Gladiators but whatever....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
funny how you would imply that someone has "self trust" when they are asking for the reassurance of others. And then you call me a troll when the advice I gave them, was to judge their own actions instead of asking for other people to decide. This just doesn't make sense unless we're in "opposite-land" where trolls give good advice and nice people tell everyone that they shouldn't think for themselves.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
Well just wanted to note, the greataxe isn't the 'quintesessential warrior weapon'.
This is just a peeve noting games in general. The greataxe has very seldom been the go-to symbol of the traditional fighter class, more so it's been the sword because of the extra symbolism and meaning of chivalry.
The axe is a weapon that's more commonly attributed to the more brute styled classes. Same case as the hammer. Hence in classic D&D the common trope of the Barbarian using a greataxe while the Fighter uses a sword.
This is also a mindset that's coupled with the way in which a weapon would get used. The greatsword was again a common warrior weapon as it was dual purpose sword and pike. Likewise the longsword and bastard sword were common because they were 'hand and a half' blades, something a fighter could situationally alternate the way they weild the weapon.
The concept of them was the flexibility they were provided. A fighter wasn't a simpleton, they were a strategic combatant.
the 'heavy weapons' like the club, hammer, and greataxe were all commonly more straightforward (pike weapons like the poleaxe is not specifically an axe, pike weapons fall back in the strategic category). These are things that serve a much more controlled purpose and are not as flexible in their use. The are the weapons you pick up when your goal and methodology is singular.
I don't wanna say it's more simple, but it's a symbolically more brutish approach that's much more directly about overpowering an enemy. Hence the relation to the more crass, less classy barbarian style characters.
So referring to an axe as a 'quintessential warrior weapon' while not explicitly false, is a misnomer and a very finite interpretation that ignores general history of gaming, media, and actual history.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Nah.... I would have to disagree and agree with the OP. You really don't have any idea what you are talking about.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
Ive played many video games in my time.
I found that in single player games, once I learn all its core elements I turn from loving the game to hating it INSTANTLY. Never could figure out why.
But with mmos I could last much much longer because of the variations of community, uniqueness of dungeons and every time is different because of the group you are with. Logging on, finding that well oiled group and the flow that comes along with it.
With GW2, it felt like a single player game with others around you. After I leveled a Necromancer to level 30 I hated the game INSTANTLY, just like a single player game. I felt like nothing. Big deal, jump in a dynamic event cast a few weak abilities see the boss fall and it was over.........Just how much of this could you take ?.....Same crap over and over....It's a single player game !
You're mostly right, but it wasn't because of symbolism / chivalry, though I can see where one might draw that conclusion.
Swords are just a much more well balanced weapon. There's a reason the sword + shield combo was so common for so long, and it had nothing to do w/ symbolism. It's a VERY tough combo to beat in a melee fight 1 on 1. Heck, even the greatsword (claymore) was more balanced than bringing around a battle axe. Axes in general are very offensive weapons, with little-no defensive capabilities. They're main strength came from penetrating armor / shields, except they also had the annoying habit of getting wedged into both, in addition to being extremely heavy.
In short axes are one of the slowest and most 1 dimensional weapons a fighter could use. It's main strength (armor / shield penetration) was often outshined by blunt weapons, which were not only easier to wield, but also recovered from strikes much faster. That's the reason why you don't see many true warriors running around with an axe. They almost always run with at least some type of sword, because of the versatility.
Warriors with 2 handed axes havent done very well historically speaking.
Why not read some more, improve your knowledge which might probably change/correct your current perceptions.
http://listverse.com/2008/02/06/top-10-badass-ancient-weapons/
The link above for example puts into perspective what others might want to see in games, siege weapons etc.
But you are right, if you dont have immersion no point in it for you.
interesting stuff. Immersion is a state of mind, so it should be possible to realign your thinking on great axes based on this - who wants to be a warrior that is using a great Axe as if it is a superior weapon
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
the sentence under your post count should be "i am more than the sum of my parts" .
Makes more sense and doesn't make you look bad.
Wow! Thats good! I mean REALLY good! Thats way better than what I had come up with. I think you should get your name associated with that or somebody is going to come along and say that they said it first!
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
Nope, that quote is wide known, but you have entertained me indeed.
OH... I thought it was "I am more than some of my parts".
Oderint, dum metuant.
Methinks you skipped the part where I mentioned that.
"This is also a mindset that's coupled with the way in which a weapon would get used. The greatsword was again a common warrior weapon as it was dual purpose sword and pike. Likewise the longsword and bastard sword were common because they were 'hand and a half' blades, something a fighter could situationally alternate the way they weild the weapon."
Symbolism wasn't the only aspect I mentioned, it was meerely the first.
Also stevebombsquad, please don't make inane remarks.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
You hit the nail on the head in my book. The game has pointless progression as you are always at the same power level with current and past content. There is no feeling of empowerment that is so critical to character progression. At level 80, you can go back to earlier areas and still get your ass handed to you and there really is nothing epic or even special about having invested all that time into reaching the pinnacle of your character's abilities. It's one thing for a game to offer challenge, it's another when everything is challenging and there is nothing there to give you at least the sense of being a powerful hero or even as an exceptional character within the story line.
I like versatility within a defined role, but I am not a fan of homogenized classes so while they may appear different, they don't really feel different. For example, I'm a plate wearing, shield toting Guardian, but I still have to face combat as if I were a cloth wearing Elementalist, having to avoid physical attacks and using hit and run tactics or die horribly. I'm sorry, but why have plate mail in the game at all if you can't stand toe to toe with your adversary any more than the ranged specialists. I also can't stand the healing mechanic in this game. I love to play healing classes, because they can really turn the tide of battle, but I never got that feeling with even the most healing friendly classes in this game. The game play seemed to be centered more on timely rezzes and I just don't find that fun.
Honestly, this is a problem of perspective.
The reason why you don't feel powerful, is because relatively speaking most other games go out of their way to tell you 'you're powerful' without you actually doing anything.
The sad thing is, as long as gamers need this imagined ego-injection to enjoy games, it'll be impossible for really deep games to pick up popularity. They'll remain a niche as long as players need games to make them feel competent. If you look at some of the better games that have come out recently, some of them (like dark souls) actually go out of their way to make you feel weak. It's the challenge of overcoming that which makes those games good.
How arrogant of you to assume it's about ego. Frankly, it's fun and interesting to be something that I am not in real life, thank you very much.
Chill out w/ the insults, and look at how games have been designed over the past decade. Count how many achievements games give nowadays which are meaningless. Pay attention to how many games praise the user for every little thing.
It is about ego, and I'm hardly the first person to notice this. This isn't a new phenomina, it's just much more apparent now that it's been going on for quite a long time. Just think about it.
For example, God of War. Hugely successful game. But it rewards basic button mashing with a feeling of being a god. Nothing of the game really challenges you. It can be fun, but it rewards you for doing almost nothing. If you were to take away that feeling of badassery, and replace it with an actual challenge, how many people do you think would still enjoy it? After all people like to feel good about themselves, and that's what most of these games are designed to do.
Combine the fact that people like to feel good about themselves, with the fact that people (in general) will always lean towards the easiest solution to any given situation, and it's no wonder that games like God of War are so popular. From this you can also see the problems with trying to introduce more challenging games in such a climate.
Try to push a game that favors skilled player and challenges over a game where you can push a button and feel like a god, and you see the situation we're talking about right now. You can choose to be offended by that, but it's the reality of the gaming environment atm.
GW2 is basically the MMO version of this. I'm not saying this is a game for everyone (and never have), but it is a game that sacrifices some of that feeling of being 'powerful' in favor of a system which allows more skilled players to shine on their own merits, instead of the game's.